I read Omnivore's Dilemma and I don't recall them saying anything remotely like what I said. It mostly came from Dr. Valtin, kidney specialist who has investigated the water issue.

Just for the fun of it, I went to the index of my hard copy of Westman, Phinney & Volek's The New Atkins for a New You. to see what they had to say about water consumption and hydration. Most of the references are in the section on Induction.
19, 96 diuretic effects
18, 67-68, 96, 108, 187 intake
18, 77, 95, 106 in weight loss
hydration was not in the index, just water.

"Atkins naturally has a diuretic effect . . .which is why drinking plenty of water and other fluids is important . . .to ensure you don't deplete your stores of electrolytes." page 18 "WATER POUNDS AND FAT POUNDS. pg 19 "fluid loss can be too much of a good thing...To manage this problem, simply drink plenty of water and other fluids and make sure to consume a minimum of a half teaspoon of salt each day."
67-68 "DRINK REGULARLY ...many people are borderline dehydrated much of the time--your body releases a hormone that makes your kidneys retain salt and water, but does this at the expense of wasting your body's stores of potassium.....People often misread the body's signal for more fluid as hunger, so staying well hydrated also helps you not overeat....To determine if you are drinking enough fluids, simply check the color of your urine, which should be clear or pale yellow. ...Individual needs vary" etc etc etc
96 "A low carb diet is naturally diuretic which flushes sodium and water from your body."

These are just some of the things that struck me about adequate hydration on a low-carb diet. I like their approach which seems sensible. They don't seem to be advocating drinking fluids as only replacing fluid, they include electrolyte imbalances that need correcting as well. They do go on to say that 8 glasses of water a day is not a hard and fast rule for everyone. There are many factors that go into adequate hydration and each individual will have different requirements.

I do like the Westman et al approach. They are reasonable rather than rigid. I like the fact that they are clinicians as well as researchers and draw on a wide variety of experiences as well as their own research data that has not yet been published. This approach works for me but may not work for anyone else.

Thank you Benay, it seems that all we need is a common sense approach.

Meme, you have good recall of basic physiology. We do store toxins in fat cells when we don't destroy and flush them out right away. And yes, we lose fluid as sweat if temperatures rise high enough. People in Florida, where the humidity is high, notice it more than people who live in desert areas where sweat evaporates almost as soon as it hits the skin. Some cultures induce sweat through sweat lodges/saunas to rid themselves of toxins. Others induce sweat by exercise and hot baths. We also lose fluid, as well as toxins, from our lungs--just breathing, from our gut (not enough fluid makes us constipated), as well as from our kidneys. People with poor kidney function require dialysis to rid their bodies of free floating toxins in the blood. So we are constantly excreting fluids. And those fluids carry electrolytes and toxins with them. So, when we shift from carb burning to fat burning, our fat cells give up their stores of whatever they they have been hoarding and release them into the blood stream. Our job is to try to help the liver and kidneys do their job efficiently. Rehydrate what has been lost. it is not an either/or situation of replacing electrolytes or fluids; it is a both/and--we need to replace lost fluids and electrolytes. End of lecture.

love it.

A friend who had a fat biopsy for certain reasons let me know what toxins they found in her fat and it was frightening.
My Atkins book also talked about toxins deposited in our fat. Sorry no page number or links, just from memory.
I do live in an area of Texas that is sub-tropical so we drink water constantly throughout the year.

Thanks Meme,

I can imagine! Not only do we store what we eat and drink but also (smog/air pollution) what we breathe and what we absorb from our skin.

I am horrified by Nina Teicholz description of what is happening in restaurants that use vegetable oils (not Olive Oil) for cooking. I am going to be very careful from now on where I go to eat. Those toxins/sludge are lethal quickly!

No need to give chapter and verse for the Atkins book, I can find the page easily.

I know due to my diabetes I need to drink 3 liters of water. (My doctor's orders) also if I am low carbing she wants me to drink 1-2 more liters of water.

Wow, that sounds like a lot of water! Have you found any references that support that recommendation? Did she tell you why she wanted you to drink so much water? Just curious.

I don't have my table of references in front of me, but I think 4 liters is an imperial gallon whereas 4 quarts equals a US gallon. In other words, a liter is a larger quantity than a quart. Or is it the reverse? 5 liters of fluid a day seems like a lot..

I wonder if she is worried about your kidney function. As a diabetic, there is some cause for concern -- or is that a valid statement? I have also heard that GPs on the whole have heard that the Atkins Diet will give you kidney problems so the extra fluid is to counter balance that too.

Also-Keep in mind that some meds are metabolized through the liver and some meds are metabolized through the kidneys.

I seem to be thirsty and need to sip a lot. However, I no longer count how many glasses of water I drink nor do I have a particular goal. I drink to my needs, which I know is plenty but not excessive.

My goodness that's a lot of fluid! 1litre = 1.76pints.

This. If you're thirsty, drink water. If you're not, don't. Unless you have special reasons like Lessara. The amount you drink may change from day to day and it will change with different climates. When I lived in Houston I drank a lot more water. I didn't have to think about it, I was thirsty more often.

Benay, the nephrons in your kidneys are not damaged by proteins, they are damaged by sugar and hypertension. Now if they are already damaged, they may have trouble filtering proteins and that's when the recommendation to reduce protein comes in. But there are plenty of doctors who think low carb (and perhaps higher protein) is the way to go even with advanced kidney disease. Just the other day I was reading in Dr Bernstein's book that some forward thinking dialysis centers recommend that their patients add olive oil to the diets to make up for calories lost when cutting back on carbs and protein.

If I could just get my friend's GP to read this. Otherwise Liz you are preaching to the converted (or is it saved?) In other words, I already knew this. What made you think I didn't? If I gave you the wrong impression of my ignorance of basic human physiology, I apologize. It was my friend's GP (a physician) who went ballistic when my friend said she wanted to go on an Atkins diet. The GP was almost screaming that all that protein would destroy her kidneys. It wasn't me. Blame the Ancel Key's trained physician.

I plead ignorance to the effects of long term diabetes on kidney function. So are you saying diabetes (free floating BG) creates dysfunctional kidneys? What about increased insulin levels to counteract the BG? Does that impact the kidneys too? Although both my brothers died from congestive heart failure that I attribute to their diabetes, they never tested out as having any kidney dysfunction. And they didn't have hypertension. So my question about the relationship between diabetes and kidneys was an honest one based upon my lack of experience. Thanks for trying. I am glad to see there might be a slight shift in thinking on the part of some MDs about protein in the diet.

Sorry, i mis-read your initial post on the extra water for kidneys because of low carb. I know you are well read and well educated. It's curious to me that docs recommend extra water for those with early kidney disease, but as kidney failure approaches, water is limited. I sometimes wonder if all that extra water doesn't tax the kidneys.

The nephrons as i understand it (and as best as i can remember, i'm on a plane and don't want to spend the extra $$$$ to research this at the moment), the nephrons are fed by small capillaries which get gummed up with AGES. I don't remember for sure but i also assume that the increased pressure of hypertension can blow out those same capillaries. Once the blood supply to the nephrons is compromised they begin to fail.

Both my parents had severely compromised kidneys before their death, both prob brought on by smoking. My mom was on dialysis for a few weeks. Ugh. My cat also has had advanced kidney disease for almost 6 years and is thriving on a high protein, grain free diet.