Fructose Metabolism By The Brain Increases Food Intake And Obesity : LC Research/Media Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#196 ^

Thu, Apr-09-09, 14:56

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

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Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

Yeah, fructose and honey are 'natural,' and so therefore, they are healthy.

Just makes me sick realizing how many diabetics were told for so many years how fructose was SAFE for them, it's just terrible.

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#197 ^

Thu, Apr-09-09, 15:07

capmikee

Senior Member

Posts: 5,160

Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"

BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%

Location: Philadelphia

The weirdest chapter of Sugar Blues is about a diabetic who goes on a macrobiotic diet. I think Dufty is trying to say that the macrobiotic diet helped, but the description of his life even after "recovery" is pretty hellish. Maybe Dufty just doesn't believe you can have a very good life if you have diabetes.

#198 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 09:24

Valtor

Senior Member

Posts: 2,036

Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"

BF:
Progress: 58%

Location: Québec, Canada

Well that's it for me.

I have gained 2 net pounds.

That is after I calculated the pounds of glycogen and water that eating carbs has brought on, which is normal. So I am now at 257. I was at 252.4 prior to my zero-fructose experiment.

I was willing to stall for a while, but not gain weight fast like that ! I'm stopping it today.

My conclusions is that if you are overweight it's too late for you. But if your children never eats more then 35g of fructose per day, then they should never become overweight.

I will now switch to Dr K's Optimal Diet. A low-protein/low-carb diet.

Patrick

#199 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 09:49

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

On the one day that I experimented with Rye Crisp - I had two tiny wafers, I gained 5 pounds overnight.

However, they disappeared within 72 hours.

I don't believe that one should eat wheat or other fructan-rich foods, nor consume corn syrup solids -- even if they are not contaminated, it's probably too much sweetener, in the same sense that fake sweeteners provoke so many stalls for LC'rs.

When I read a few pages about HEREDITARY fructose intolerance, I learned that most of them cannot tolerate noodles made from brown rice - so I think there is more to be learned about the precise Fructose-ALMOST-free diet which enables one to lose weight - and I suspect that it will be high in protein & fat.

I wish there were longitudinal studies on people who have HFI - to find out about the long term benefits of eating fructose-free foods for the long term.

#200 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 10:09

capmikee

Senior Member

Posts: 5,160

Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"

BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%

Location: Philadelphia

Rye also has gluten.

I'll offer my report too: Since eliminating sauerkraut, alliums and coconut milk a week ago:

My weight has stayed reasonably stable, though in the past two days I've gone from 139.8 to 140.6. I've been hovering around there all winter, though, with the highest point being around 143.

The gas has not gone away - in fact it might be worse now. But I haven't had any constipation or diarrhea for at least 5 days.

I still have a funny taste on the left side of my tongue.

I am still consuming:

lemon juice - mostly in taramosalata (salted carp roe, lemon juice, olive oil)
Chicken, beef, pork (but no bacon for the last 3 or 4 days)
Spring greens
Celery
Cilantro
Coconut oil
Cod liver oil
Ghee
Bentonite clay
Salt, pepper, herbs, spices

I added a version of this post to my journal with more menu details.

#201 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 12:24

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

Yeah, rye has gluten, but I was curious, as Rye Crisp is often tolerated by people with Fructose Malabsorption. I presume that I have celiac disease; however, I've been a big fruit & veggie eater for decades, even back when my digestion was at its very worst, even then I was a fruit juice drinker - so I haven't been remotely "low" fructose since I was a small child. But then, instead of fruits & veggies, much of my diet was peanut butter sandwiches and cookies and milk -- and that obviously wasn't healthy, either.

Anyway, the main problem I have with eating potatoes, rice and cornstarch is that it's simply such a novelty - I've not eaten this stuff in a very long time.

It is ... to be eating things like rice/spinach/hamburger that is so reminescent of 1940s & 1950s "Betty Crocker" white-foods cookery.

It's necessary to make positive that the meat/fish portion is at least one third of what I eat -- the rice & potatoes simply are not filling.

The only non-meat thing which makes me feel full is oatmeal -- and I always worry about it, because so many people with celiac disease cannot eat it.

But, with the exception of satiating me, it doesn't seem to have adverse effects. I just don't know.

#202 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 12:40

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

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Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

YIKES.

No wonder I got so sick and started gaining weight when I started adding all those veggies to my version of Atkins, which had been meat & eggs, primarily.

I just went to the USDA website, and the only form of lettuce which doesn't have lots of fructose is Red Leaf Lettuce.

Kind of surprises me that something like Romaine has plenty of fructose, because it's kind of a "sour" tasting lettuce.

Iceberg didn't surprise me, as it's very not merely crunchy, it's quite sweet tasting.

With the exception of one serving of one-fourth cup of baby green peas, the only veggies I had until last night were spinach & celery. I gave into a craving for broccoli by having one cup of frozen chopped broccoli boiled in a tiny amount of water.

#203 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 13:22

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

Limit Fructose to FOUR grams total per day...

More Trouble with Fructose
April 24th, 2008 ·
http://www.mendosa.com/blog/?p=277

Quote:

.....The obscure study that Dr. Eades found finally convinced me that we need to limit not only high fructose corn syrup and other artificial fructose but also the naturally occurring fructose. My friend Joe Anderson has been arguing this case for years. But I thought that he was going too far.

He wasn't. I wasn't going far enough.

The researchers studied 19 vegetarian and 19 omnivore subjects recruited from the region around Bratislava, Slovak Republic. Three of the researchers worked at the Institute of Preventive and Clinical Medicine in Bratislava. One of them worked at the Institute of Physiological Chemistry of the University of WÃ¼rzburg in WÃ¼rzburg, Germany, where I happened to have studied for a year.

The omnivores actually ate a higher carb diet than the vegetarians and cooked their food at higher temperatures than the vegetarians did. But the vegetarians ate more fruits and vegetables, giving them significantly more fructose in their diet. The researchers found that the vegetarians had significantly more AGEs......

.....But even if you accept that natural fructose can cause the formation of AGEs, as I do now, we still have a big problem. How much fructose is too much? The authors of this research report don't say.

So I turned back to Joe Anderson, who until now has been a voice in the wilderness of fructose. By email he tells me that his recommendation, based in part on Nancy Appleton's book, Lick the Sugar Habit (Avery, second edition, 1996),~ is to eat no more than 4 grams of fructose per day. In practice he doesn't eat fruit that provides more than 2 grams of fructose per serving.

"That isn't much fruit!" Joe exclaims. "We were not evolved to eat much fruit! Modern fruit have been bred for high sugar content, among other things. Older fruit varieties are less sweet and succulent. Proto-fruits were typically sour or nearly so. Think crab apples vs. Fujis."

This prompted me to search the USDA National Nutrient Database, which is online. But that's a slow way to search for a lot of different foods. Fortunately, the USDA also makes in available to download to your computer — if you have a Windows PC or PDA instead of a Mac. That's one of the few reasons why I kept my old PC when I got my first Mac four years ago.

So, arbitrarily defining a serving as one cup, do all fruit servings have more than 2 grams?

Fortunately not.

But before we can pinpoint which are the good fruits, we still have a couple tricky things to keep in mind. The first is that the dividing line between what we call a fruit and a vegetable is different botanically than it is gastronomically. What this means for present purposes is that we also need to consider the fructose in the vegetables that we eat.

The second tricky thing to remember when we search the USDA's tables for fructose is that they show only the fructose as such. We need to remember to add half of its sucrose, because sucrose is half fructose and half glucose.

Still, several fruits are low in fructose, both as such and as sucrose. Avocados are the outstanding example. Their low fructose content is one more reason why avocados have become a regular part of my diet.

Lemons and limes are also low in fructose. But not their cousins oranges and grapefruit.
Sweet green peppers are indeed a fruit botanically. And they are a good fruit too in terms of their low fructose level.

Sadly, one of my favorite fruits, tomatoes, barely missed making the cut. A cup of a raw tomato has 2.5 grams of fructose.

Not long ago I wrote here about the "Good Veggies." But in light of what I now know about fructose not all of them are all that good.

Most of those "good veggies" really are good for us. But carrots have too much fructose for us to think of them any more as being good for us. "Carrots are fructose sticks," Joe says.

The other formerly good veggie is the botanical fruit, sweet red pepper. Unlike sweet green peppers, the red ones are high in fructose.

Not listed among the good veggies but relevant to this discussion are Jerusalem artichokes (also known nowadays as sunchokes). By whatever name you know them, they are bigger fructose sticks than carrots are.

Onions too have more fructose than is good for us. "One of the most disappointing days in my life was when I learned how high in fructose that onions are," Joe wrote me. They actually have about 2.6 grams of fructose per cup. "I miss them, but will occasionally use small amounts of them as a condiment."

That's the way to think about those fruits and vegetables that are a little too high in their levels of fructose. And remember that we still have a lot of wonderful foods to chose from. Particularly if we are omnivores.

http://www.mendosa.com/blog/?p=277

#204 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 13:40

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

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Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

AGEs and Aging-Sweet Suicide

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1

EXCERPT

Quote:

....Glycation, oxidation, AGEs, RAGEs and chronic inflammation are activated primarily by dietary fructose and AGEs along with their associated oxidation products. ~Dietary AGEs are formed ~10 times more rapidly by fructose than by glucose.~ These effects are far more severe than indicated by the traditional "empty calories" arguments. Instead of just a potential nutritional deficit there is active, demonstrable damage. ~Dietary AGEs, often indicated by browning, are sometimes termed glycotoxins (sugar poisons) by researchers, and with good reason.~ We even seem to crave them when we are used to them.~ After refraining from sugars and AGEs a while, people may indicate they no longer taste as good; they may seem over cooked, "slightly burnt" or too sweet.

Fructose and dietary AGEs appear to be major activators of age-related chronic diseases such as: obesity, Alzheimer's, macular degeneration, cancer, metabolic syndrome, strokes, immune disorders, cataracts, deafness, wrinkling, impotence and many more age-related chronic diseases.~It is impractical to name them all here.

That fructose and AGEs promote: obesity and type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular diseases accounts for the fact that obesity is often called the cause of the latter two in the media.~ That is incorrect; they are linked, but all of these diseases are symptoms of excessive dietary fructose, galactose and AGEs. ~Together they have caused, and continue to cause, far more disease, loss of quality of life, and grief than smoking has ever done.~ In fact, the damaging components of tobacco smoke are really AGEs.~

Consumption of fructose, galactose and browned foods causes the same reactions for the same reasons as smoking. ~Eating the wrong foods means we are essentially "smoking" our bodies through our eating, and with essentially the same results as smoking our lungs.

The expression of any particular disease is also strongly influenced by genetic heritage. ~Certain illnesses, mostly due to errors in protein coding, tend to express early in some families and not at all in others.~ Age of onset of clinical symptoms is determined largely by your genes and how much fructose + dietary AGEs you eat. ~They are lifetime accumulative. ~Normally, with age-related chronic diseases, you are getting ill for a long time before clinical diagnosis.~ Children under 5 have been shown to have signs of atherosclerosis, for example, but they are unlikely to be clinically diagnosed until much later in life.~ You've won the gold ring if you die from nonspecific old age before you have activated any of your genetically predisposed diseases.~ The key to this is avoiding the activators such as dietary AGEs, fructose, excitotoxins and trans-fats. The important variable is the total consumption of these factors over your lifetime from all foods eaten, though the trans-fats and excitotoxins are excreted much more effectively.~

People with no clinical symptoms can, of course, expect better and quicker response to changing their diets than diabetics because they haven't yet had as much damage or developed the positive feedback loops (pushing the sorbitol pathway, AGEs catalyzing reactive oxidants, AGEs promoting fructose absorption, etc) that plague the diabetic, for example. ~

Considering the consequences, even if only some of the damaging mechanisms of AGEs and fructose are understood, these persistent bioaccumulating toxins should be eliminated from our diets as much as possible. ~Better safe than sorry.

Perhaps, and hopefully, you will decide to take your long-term health in hand, forego the transient "pleasures" of sweet and/or browned foods, and at least try the suggested low-fructose, low-AGEs diet.~ Any amount of reduction is to the good; and, as time passes, you will find it easier to further reduce your intake of AGEs and fructose.~ It is the only dietary intervention that is known to equal caloric restriction in reducing disease and age of death [[51]].......

Joe Anderson
PS Be sure to check out the FAQs and Data Pages for more information.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1

#205 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 14:38

capmikee

Senior Member

Posts: 5,160

Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"

BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%

Location: Philadelphia

Quote:

Originally Posted by lil' annie

Kind of surprises me that something like Romaine has plenty of fructose, because it's kind of a "sour" tasting lettuce.

I tried to find "spring greens," and "mesclun" - not there at all. Here's the salad results I found. All measurements are grams per 100g.

Lettuce, butterhead (includes boston and bibb types), raw: 0 sucrose, 0.43 glucose, 0.51 fructose - 54% fructose
Lettuce, cos or romaine, raw: 0 sucrose, 0.39 glucose, 0.80 fructose - 67% fructose
Lettuce, green leaf, raw: 0 sucrose, 0.36 glucose, 0.43 fructose - 54% fructose
Lettuce, iceberg (includes crisphead types), raw: 0.05 sucrose, 0.91 glucose, 1.0 fructose - 52% fructose
Lettuce, red leaf, raw: 0 sucrose, 0.20 glucose, 0.28 fructose - 58% fructose
Spinach, raw: 0.07 sucrose, 0.11 glucose, 0.15 fructose, 0.10 galactose - 66% non-glucose
Celery, raw: 0.11 sucrose, 0.55 glucose, 0.51 fructose, 0.66 galactose - 67% non-glucose

The following list total sugars only:

Radicchio, raw: 0.6
Dandelion greens, raw: 0.71
Coriander (cilantro) leaves, raw: 0.87
Parsley, raw: 0.85
Arugula, raw: 2.05

#206 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 15:41

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

Quote:

Originally Posted by capmikee

I did a real fast search, using HEAD of lettuce - and the a head of red leaf lettuce had 2-point-something on fructose, whereas the head of iceberg lettuce was something like 8 grams of fructose.

Joe Anderson advises to not eat more than 4 total grams per day -- but I suspect that HE, himself might be over that amount, because on his FAQ, he advises whole grains.

People with Hereditary Fructose Intolerance can eat white rice and white rice noodle products, but NOT anything of brown rice.... so obviously, just like "They" say, the fructose in grains is in the bran and in the germ.

#207 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 15:59

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

0.87 gram of fructose in one head of red leaf lettuce

One Head of Red Leaf Lettuce

Carbohydrate, by difference grams: 6.98

Fiber, total dietary grams:2.8

Sugars, total grams: 1.48

Sucrose grams: 0.00

Glucose (dextrose) grams: 0.62

Fructose grams: 0.87

Lactose grams: 0.00

Maltose grams: 0.00

Galactose grams: 0.00

Starch grams: 0.00

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodco...ist_nut_edit.pl

Last edited by lil' annie : Fri, Apr-10-09 at 18:18.

#208 ^

Fri, Apr-10-09, 16:07

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

5.83 grams of fructose in one head of iceberg lettuce

One Head of Iceberg Lettuce

Carbohydrate, by difference grams: 16.01

Fiber, total dietary grams: 6.5

Sugars, total grams: 10.62

Sucrose grams: 0.27 (thus, 0.14 grams fructose)

Glucose (dextrose) grams: 4.90

Fructose grams: 5.39

Lactose grams: 0.00

Maltose grams: 0.00

Galactose grams: 0.00

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodco...ist_nut_edit.pl

Last edited by lil' annie : Fri, Apr-10-09 at 18:15.