I was just reading some posts on a zero carb forum and it looks like the majority of people on there have trouble digesting meat and rely on HCl to help them. Maybe my digestion isn't that different from other people, maybe I am just too stubborn on the supplementing thing. I am trying 2 weeks of carnivore and I'm gonna bite the bullet and use HCl and see how I feel.

I think after being on SAD for so long it destroys people's guts. We just need a boost to get it up to paleo man/ neanderthal strength. Good for you going with the supplementation. It's kind of scary to see how weak your stomach really is, so don't be frightened if you get past 5 pills. I've heard of people taking 11 and not feeling anything. That means the stomach acid is nearly nonexistent. NOT a good thing on a ZC diet.

do you need HCL because things move too fast or too slow? I am too fast. LMK how it works for you

Well, HCl is a current topic of interest over there, but I would say it's a small minority who actually use it. That's not to say you shouldn't try it, though.

sln, my system is very slow. I have done tests with corn and found out that my transit time is close to 70 hrs. Usually my biggest problem is that hours after I eat I still feel the food sitting in my stomach like a brick. So far so good with the HCl. All I ate yesterday was a bunch of meat and some hwc and I only took 3 HCl pills and it really made a difference. I did have some slight hypoglycemic feelings but I just kept eating a piece of meat when that feeling would come and I got through it.

I was reading the thread called "maldigestion" and it seemed to me that a lot of people on that forum who I thought were completely adapted to meat only were saying how they were using HCl. It surprised me that there are so many people using it when those same people talk about how great zc has been for their health. That was the point where I realized that even though you may need a supplement for awhile to do a diet, that diet may still benefit you in the long run.

What's hwc?

heavy whipping cream

That's my point. The "Mediterranean diet" according to Keys is a work of fiction. The WAPF site has a good article about it: http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi...ts/meddiet.html

When I was a kid, back in the late 60s, I spend a month on Corsica. It seemed they lived on molluscs, meat (usually configured as a braised lump swimming in rich sauce, or a sausage), figs and some very interesting cheeses. There was usually a fish or meat based broth and crust of bread for sopping up sauce but no salad or at most a garnish of some vegetable matter. Figs, pears and a sometimes spectacularly (to my young and unbiased point of view, not my parents') runny/moldy/maggoty cheese for dessert. There probably was some pasta, but not in memorable proportions or frequency.

Lucky you - exposed to maggot cheese at a young age!

Now it's the talk of the town...

http://stephzy.multiply.com/journal...2/Rotten_Cheese...

I've been to Italy a few times and they dedicate an entire course to a big hunk of meat and fish and some vegetables.

They also eat the exact same amount of saturated fat as people in the US, both 72g a day I think.

I have no idea where the med diet got the 'low red meat' thing from, they eat plenty of it in Italy, Greece, Croatia, Spain, Morroco and Algeria.

The "Mediterranean diet" they speak of was observed in Crete in the 1960s. It's well documented. We can't pick and choose which data we are going to believe and which we are going to ignore, which is exactly what Ancel Keys did. I don't doubt people ate red meat elsewhere in the Mediterranean countries (good for them), but not in Crete in the 1960s. Like I've already said, we already know that the so-called Mediterranean diet is not ideal (lots of grains, for instance), but is it hard to imagine it's better than eating today's sugar-loaded industrialized food? I'd be very surprised if it weren't at least a little healthier, as I would be if the Paleolithic diet didn't turn out to be better than the Mediterranean diet -- and studies have already shown that it is.

By the way, I cook a lot from an old Italian cookbook, with plenty of recipes containing red meat.

I have been doing VLC for a week and I am feeling great! The HCl was the missing key. If I feel like I am not digesting something I take one or two and in 20 min I feel fine again. I am not perfect in the bathroom department yet but there is a definite improvement. I think all the fiber I was eating was actually hurting instead of helping. Sometimes standard dietary advice is just so wrong! Do you guys ever feel like we are in the twilight zone or something It's like we have to do the opposite of what the experts tell us if we want to be healthy.

I feel like that all the time! Lately people have been accusing me of being plain contrary, but it is truly hard to trust any official advice any more...

LOL! thanks for the link, that brings back memories. I wonder how difficult it would be to make at home. If I start with a store-bought cheese and go right to the maggot-attracting stage, maybe not too tough. Has to wait for spring though, so I'm off the hook for now