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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 11:40
Angeline76's Avatar
Angeline76 Angeline76 is offline
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Plan: atkins/southbeach
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Default What ? is this true ?

http://www.freedomyou.com/nutrition_book/Let's%20Eat.htm

The digestion of a banana requires very few stomach secretions. What about a piece of fried chicken? Chicken contains no enzymes to help digestion. If the chicken has been eaten quickly, there will be little enzyme activity from the saliva. It will sit in the stomach like a lead brick. The body is forced to produce strong acid secretions to build up to do some of the digestion. A coffee or two splashed down, dilutes the digestive juices. The barely-digested chicken then moves on to the small intestine where bile from the gallbladder emulsifies the chicken fat. The chicken is still in need of more digestion so the remainder of the work will require the help of the pancreas. To accomplish such a difficult task, the pancreas must produce large quantities of enzymes which place a heavy burden on it.
Studies show that eating a high percentage of cooked food causes the pancreas to enlarge. A pancreas that is enlarged as a result of over-stimulation, eventually breaks down. From years of abuse, the pancreas secretes fewer enzymes and causes digestive problems such as bloating, gas, diarrhea, gastritis or diabetes.
Let’s return to our piece of fried chicken. It has now been sitting in the intestinal track for 24 hours. Because of its partially-digested state, it has become rancid. The body must respond by producing a sticky mucus which envelopes the putrefying chicken in a protective sack. As the fiberless meat moves slowly through 30 feet of intestine, the mucus sack begins to dehydrate and impact on the colon wall. This creates a hard, black, crust-like substance that builds up, layer upon layer, inside the folds of the intestine further hindering the absorption of nutrients. Mercifully after 30 hours, this mucus sack of putrefying chicken is deposited with great effort into the toilet. Our fried chicken has taken more than it has given, depleting the enzyme bank, depositing very little in nutritional value, leaving impacted, dried mucus in its wake.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 14:06
SidC's Avatar
SidC SidC is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 160/103/115 Female 62 inches
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Consider the source. Do the authors have any credentials that make you think they are knowledgeable? I looked at the link you posted. They seem to be into purification and weight loss through fasting, cleansing, and religion.

Fasting for weight loss can be unhealthy and counterproductive; see this article for a discussion of how fasting affects the body. It is certainly not a part of Atkins (or South Beach, I think), where the whole idea is to lose weight by shifting your eating habits permanently to a healthier diet.

Personally, I'd say the main author has a few problems with food in general.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 14:28
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
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In general, I believe it's true that all protein foods require a great more effort in digestion than carby foods. Protein without a good deal of water intake can allegedly tip the pH balance of the body eventually.

However, your post makes several worst-case assumptions -- I realize this is you quoting something else by the way so I'm always referring to it in that context -- only adding all those together do you get the equation, like:

* - that something is eaten so incredibly fast that there's hardly any saliva involved
* - that the stomach acids are incapable of dealing with it
* - that someone's going to drink 16 oz of coffee at the same time specifically that dilutes the stomach acids (note that drinking water about 15 minutes before eating is the ideal)
* - that even after saliva, stomach acid, and bile, the chicken is still not digested, making unusual demands on the pancreas

It is true about the pancreas enlarging when you use it more. So do your bicep muscles. What line draws the difference between "enough over-stimulation to cause pancreatic breakdown" vs. "the pancreas is used more in carnivores than vegetarians" is a question I have not seen adequately answered by the research I've seen, although most vegetarians will trot that out to example why eating meat is terrible.

You might notice that it's actually usually carby food that brings most gas; protein seldom does in anybody I know, and when I shifted my diet to protein those issues vanished for me (if anything, more meat tends to have the opposite effect of diarrhea).

A protein-based diet generally improves blood readings and has often enabled some diabetics to reduce or even cease their external insulin requirements, all of which speak to a protein-based diet being more helpful than harmful, yet the article you mention would suggest the opposite.

Now theory is all very well, even when there are various pieces of research which could theoretically support it as long as there are 7 other 'assumptions' in place, but when it starts actually contradicting what you can see in your own family, friends, and body, then it's time to question it.

Also: a good deal of the process you describe becomes more realistic the more dehydrated the individual is. It is not really enough to just eat low carb; increasing water intake to a finally healthy level for the first time ever is a good part of an overall healthy eating plan.

Anybody who has ever done colon cleansing can attest to the interesting results suggesting far more storage along the walls of the intestine than most of us care to think about. On the other hand I've also read articles suggesting that the effect of fiber is to create an abrasion which causes a slimy substance to coat the intestine as it passes which gradually layers itself in deposits as protection of the intestine (mixing with the junk traveling through it of course) -- just depends on what you read!

Every eating plan is usually able to find stuff to support their opinions -- even when much of this is totally contradictory. In the end, it's what works for you I suppose.

When I began low carb I was in far more danger of keeling over from 350 extra lbs and the impact on my heart than anything -- this is a far bigger concern for me than whether I'm going to need to do a colon cleansing regime a couple times a year. As my protein requirements gradually lessen, I'll have more veggies and less meat than I do now.

Next: the idea that the chicken "deposited very little in nutritional value" is something I would argue. That is something that'd be posited by someone who thinks protein is relatively unimportant and only needed in small amounts, and who is far more concerned with the fiber in whole grains and the vitamins in a banana than they are with getting the body sufficient protein to maintain its lean body mass. That chicken contributed pure protein and amino acids to the body-- which it critically needs, and as far as 'real food' goes, could not be gotten from anything BUT meat, which is being villified in this example -- that is hardly 'contributing nothing'.

If they only want to measure by vitamins or minerals, then sure -- eating avocados and broccoli are way better! But we eat protein for a reason just like we eat veggies for a reason. The body handles them differently, and if you look for every worst-case "combination" of eating habits to explain why meat is bad, that's just going to result in someone who had better hope they can afford protein and amino acid supplements (stuff that is not 'real food' but modern contrivances), or their health problems will eventually be a helluva lot worse than a need for a colon cleansing.

There is no way to eat and not have it affect you and require work and input on your body in some fashion. It is a given that if you eat without hardly chewing and superfast, are dehydrated, drink stuff that isn't water along with your food, you are not going to digest things as well or completely than if your eating habits were better. That is not nearly so much a problem with the food as it is with the style of eating. Anything can be misused.

I remember seeing a study decades ago about how carrots could give you cancer. (My theory is that "being a laboratory rat force fed insane amounts of carrots" was what could really give you cancer!) When a person has an opinion they can usually find something to support it.

You understand I assume, that agriculture is a relatively NEW thing to the human race. For many millennia, mostly meat, with some roots/tubers and now and then a few berries or fruit (which was vastly tinier and less sweet than what we have now) was the primary food of humanity.

You see the diabetes epidemic growing literally exponentially the last 1.5 centuries. What has changed? Not meat! We eat less meat than our species ever has. What has changed? Sugar and grains that require processing or cooking to be edible have been added in massive and constantly growing amounts. If there is anything that can be tracked to the diabetes epidemic for example, it is certainly not meat. Yet that article would have you believe that if you eat meat it will so over-enlarge your pancreas that you'll get diabetes. That would merit actually hilarity if it wasn't sad that it might convince readers who don't have the testimony of tons of people who used to eat low-protein, even vegetarian, and switched to eating far more protein meats and saw their health improve, weight drop, blood readings improve, etc.

Best,
PJ
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 16:37
Angeline76's Avatar
Angeline76 Angeline76 is offline
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Plan: atkins/southbeach
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Thanks so much ( already ) for the thoughts on this article already posted. ..
I have read SO SO much on whole food eating , and on bloodsugar, hypoglycemia , carbs and sugars and problems with them ... I felt horrible before switching to a low carb whole foods diet . I had a lot of symptoms and ailments , way too many for my age... and since switching I feel SO much better. Better enough that no one could convince me that the WOE is wrong for me .
But I come across articles like this and they just seem non common sense, and ridiculous , and I just wondered what people here would have to say about it .
I am so with everyones feelings on the epidemic of the modern American diet .. the FDA pyramid , and the food industry . Its such a bunch of crap , people are brainwashed and are killing themselves and yet they are afraid to eat meat , or eggs , things that God created for us .
And you are right about just looking around at friends and family around you for the answer . It is right there in front of us everyday .
Looking at my fathers side of the family who ate margarine and ramen noodles and lots of pasta as a staple and died of heart attacks in their 40's and 50's and a grandfather who died of complications of diabetes ... then looking at my mothers side who ate butter, olive oil, and lard and hunted and ate lots of fish and game ( never trimming the fat ) and raised their own garden and are well into their 70's and do not have health problems .
And this is just one scenario of many when I look around me at peoples ways of eating and their condition of health.
Because its so clear to me , and so many around me don't get it , they get scared when they seem me eat the fat on my steak , or put a generous amount of butter on my eggs .. I have to be careful because I don't want to seem to be pushing my ways on them .. people get awfully offended by lowcarb sometimes. The government and society has brainwashed them terribly .
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 20:36
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
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Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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That whole article would work well as compost.
As another poster advised, consider the source; this is selling a diet based on raw foods and enzymes. They have to at least try to give you a reason why you should try their plan.

Yes, bananas and protein foods are digested differently. What the author attempts (badly) to do is convince the reader that these differences are somehow bad for the body.
Wait a minute. If something takes more effort by the body to accomplish, that automatically makes it bad? So....explain to me how exercise is good for me, again?

This particular quote cracked me up:

Quote:
A person living on mostly cooked food will have a pancreas, according to percentage of body weight, three and a half times that of a sheep and twice the size of a horse.


Psst...I'm not a species that grazes primarily on grasses. I don't have the enzymes to be able to digest cellulose (wait...aren't they trying to sell me enzymes? ). Let's at least compare apples to apples.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 21:15
kneebrace kneebrace is offline
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Or how about this. The human body metabolizes alcohol (for energy) in preference to either carbs or fat.

Does that mean alcohol is a better energy source?
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 21:21
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Plan: My own
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Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kneebrace
Or how about this. The human body metabolizes alcohol (for energy) in preference to either carbs or fat.

Does that mean alcohol is a better energy source?

No, alcohol is procesed first because it is a toxic substance, and liver will try to get rid of it ASAP. BTW, alcohol consumed with a fat containing meal (cheese and wine), slows down and somewhat inhibits alcohol impact.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Dec-31-06, 13:16
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
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Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
agree with almost everything how raw and cooked food impacts digestion. Fruit indeed is digested very quickly, while cooked (especially deep fried and well done) animal protein indeed takes very long time to digest and taxes entire digestive system. raw animal protein in form of milk, cheese, and fish is digested faster, and lives less toxic residues


You wouldn't happen to have any links to studies (not commercial sites trying to sell something) that demonstrate that cooked protein 'taxes' (and explains exactly how it taxes) the digestive system more than any other type of food?
Bottom line, if our bodies were not meant to consume and digest protein, cooked or otherwise, we would not have the enzymes and digestive configuration that we do.
Comparing a human pancreas (an omnivore) to that of an herbivore as 'proof' that eating protein is bad is just plain ridiculous. Sort of like the study put rabbits on a high protein diet as a way to prove that it's bad for humans.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jan-01-07, 22:04
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gryfonclaw gryfonclaw is offline
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Plan: Not sure yet
Stats: 253/218/155 Female 69 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kneebrace

Does that mean alcohol is a better energy source?


Of course!
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Dec-30-06, 21:12
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline76
http://www.freedomyou.com/nutrition_book/Let's%20Eat.htm

The digestion of a banana requires very few stomach secretions. What about a piece of fried chicken? Chicken contains no enzymes to help digestion. If the chicken has been eaten quickly, there will be little enzyme activity from the saliva. It will sit in the stomach like a lead brick. The body is forced to produce strong acid secretions to build up to do some of the digestion. A coffee or two splashed down, dilutes the digestive juices. The barely-digested chicken then moves on to the small intestine where bile from the gallbladder emulsifies the chicken fat. The chicken is still in need of more digestion so the remainder of the work will require the help of the pancreas. To accomplish such a difficult task, the pancreas must produce large quantities of enzymes which place a heavy burden on it.
Studies show that eating a high percentage of cooked food causes the pancreas to enlarge. A pancreas that is enlarged as a result of over-stimulation, eventually breaks down. From years of abuse, the pancreas secretes fewer enzymes and causes digestive problems such as bloating, gas, diarrhea, gastritis or diabetes.
Let’s return to our piece of fried chicken. It has now been sitting in the intestinal track for 24 hours. Because of its partially-digested state, it has become rancid. The body must respond by producing a sticky mucus which envelopes the putrefying chicken in a protective sack. As the fiberless meat moves slowly through 30 feet of intestine, the mucus sack begins to dehydrate and impact on the colon wall. This creates a hard, black, crust-like substance that builds up, layer upon layer, inside the folds of the intestine further hindering the absorption of nutrients. Mercifully after 30 hours, this mucus sack of putrefying chicken is deposited with great effort into the toilet. Our fried chicken has taken more than it has given, depleting the enzyme bank, depositing very little in nutritional value, leaving impacted, dried mucus in its wake.

I agree with almost everything how raw and cooked food impacts digestion. Fruit indeed is digested very quickly, while cooked (especially deep fried and well done) animal protein indeed takes very long time to digest and taxes entire digestive system. raw animal protein in form of milk, cheese, and fish is digested faster, and lives less toxic residues. The best on the raw food eating, is that the diet can be built around very healthy and nutritious food:
raw veggies and fruit, raw nuts and seeds, extra virgin olive oil, raw egg yolk (skip the white), raw milk, cream, cheese, and butter (all made with raw milk), raw fish (herring, lox, sashimi ). Add steak and tuna tartar, with avocado, and you have a perfect raw food diet: gluten and starches free, easy on digestion, chockfull of digestive enzymes and easily adaptable to a low carb WOE. IMO, it is certainly healthier than diet based on fried chicken, pork rinds, fried bacon, and ultra pasturized heavy cream.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Dec-31-06, 13:36
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
IMO, it is certainly healthier than diet based on fried chicken, pork rinds, fried bacon, and ultra pasturized heavy cream.

Wow. Who lives mostly on that??

.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jan-05-07, 10:05
waywardsis's Avatar
waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
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Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
I agree with almost everything how raw and cooked food impacts digestion. Fruit indeed is digested very quickly, while cooked (especially deep fried and well done) animal protein indeed takes very long time to digest and taxes entire digestive system. raw animal protein in form of milk, cheese, and fish is digested faster, and lives less toxic residues. The best on the raw food eating, is that the diet can be built around very healthy and nutritious food:
raw veggies and fruit, raw nuts and seeds, extra virgin olive oil, raw egg yolk (skip the white), raw milk, cream, cheese, and butter (all made with raw milk), raw fish (herring, lox, sashimi ). Add steak and tuna tartar, with avocado, and you have a perfect raw food diet: gluten and starches free, easy on digestion, chockfull of digestive enzymes and easily adaptable to a low carb WOE. IMO, it is certainly healthier than diet based on fried chicken, pork rinds, fried bacon, and ultra pasturized heavy cream.


Right, this is what started everyone off. K...

Dina, google William Beaumont. Read about his study on digestion. He found cooked beef digested completely in 2 hours - fastest of all the foods he tested. To be fair, I have no idea if he tested raw meats or whatever, my point is only to show that cooked meat doesn't necessarily take a long time to digest.

Also, wouldn't you agree that it's what you're used to? I'd imagine that giving a salad to a traditional Inuit might cause some digestive upset; giving steak tartare to a vegetarian Hindu might cause same. Personally I enjoy raw foods (meat, eggs etc), but I don't notice a difference between panfried salmon and raw salmon, in terms of how my digestion feels/performs other than the cooked makes me feel full longer than the raw. Cooked veg also keeps me going longer than raw, likely because it's easier to get the nutes out of them when they're cooked.

Anyway...all of this is based on my experience. You're bashing people over the head a little, or so it reads anyway - you eat a raw diet, and those that don't are somehow flawed. I am sure that this was not your intention, but please understand that when you're making claims (and not prefacing them with "this is my experience" but claiming them as if they should be the same for everyone) it peeves people off.

But it's the war zone, so peeve away if that's what you wanna do!
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jan-05-07, 12:26
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:

Dina, google William Beaumont. Read about his study on digestion. He found cooked beef digested completely in 2 hours - fastest of all the foods he tested. To be fair, I have no idea if he tested raw meats or whatever, my point is only to show that cooked meat doesn't necessarily take a long time to digest.

[quote] Personally I enjoy raw foods (meat, eggs etc), but I don't notice a difference between panfried salmon and raw salmon, in terms of how my digestion feels/performs other than the cooked makes me feel full longer than the raw. Cooked veg also keeps me going longer than raw, likely because it's easier to get the nutes out of them when they're cooked.

see, I am puzzled that you believe in something that feeling hunger shortly after eating is because your body did not get all nutrients from previous meal, while I think it is a matter of how fast that meal was digested. But i am not asking yuu to provide scientifical studies demonstrating that this is true. I take it as your personal experience and believe. Same way, I believe in raw food theory and do feel that raw food is easy to digest (based on my own experience).
Quote:
Anyway...all of this is based on my experience. You're bashing people over the head a little, or so it reads anyway - you eat a raw diet, and those that don't are somehow flawed.

Nope, I did not, everyone can eat whatever works for them, I prefer as much uncooked food in my diet as possible, and not all protein either.
Quote:
I am sure that this was not your intention, but please understand that when you're making claims (and not prefacing them with "this is my experience" but claiming them as if they should be the same for everyone) it peeves people off.

Actually, I did stated that it is my experience, and then was asked to provide some supplementing information.
I just stated that I agreee with the OP, and the hell broke loose. I am not going to google anything, cuz no matter that I find, some would still object. We all have our believes and disbelieves. Every study posted can and will be interpreted depending of what is suitable for some, and works for them. I don't think all vegeterians are ill either but then I was accused of being "closet" vegeterian, LOL
I believe is raw food theory,and I don't force anyone else to eat raw. I actually, never request to post studies showing otherwise, it is personal choice what to eat.
I also beleive, and can repeat myself, that low carb diet is completely adaptable to raw food and paleo, and is healther to me than cooked bacon, fried eggs, pork rinds, ultrapasturized cream, etc. I still believe that eating food in its natural state helpfull to feel and look younger, versus eating mostly cooked food.
I stated my opinion, those who don't like it, can just ignore the poster.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jan-05-07, 21:37
waywardsis's Avatar
waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
see, I am puzzled that you believe in something that feeling hunger shortly after eating is because your body did not get all nutrients from previous meal, while I think it is a matter of how fast that meal was digested.


That wasn't what I meant - sorry if I was unclear. Although that does happen, come to think of it. People with celiac/gluten intolerance (me) often feel hungry after they've eaten a meal containing gluten grains because they didn't absorb the nutrients from the meal. But anyway, I just meant I don't notice much of a difference other than how long the food will keep me going, so I tend to prefer cooked because it holds me longer. Raw holds me a long while too.

Quote:
I also beleive, and can repeat myself, that low carb diet is completely adaptable to raw food and paleo, and is healther to me than cooked bacon, fried eggs, pork rinds, ultrapasturized cream, etc. I still believe that eating food in its natural state helpfull to feel and look younger, versus eating mostly cooked food.
I stated my opinion, those who don't like it, can just ignore the poster.


I agree, raw can be low carb, and paleo is low carb by default. I'm with ya honey! I just think you came across a bit...forcefully. It's hard online to distinguish mood and intention, whaddya gonna do?

Where are you from, if you don't mind? Did you mention Russia earlier, or am I crazy? I ask bc I'm brewing my first kombucha and I'm all excited...
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jan-05-07, 23:36
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waywardsis
People with celiac/gluten intolerance (me) often feel hungry after they've eaten a meal containing gluten grains because they didn't absorb the nutrients from the meal

well, this is different, so you are better off all grains anyway.

Quote:
I'm with ya honey! I just think you came across a bit...forcefully. It's hard online to distinguish mood and intention, whaddya gonna do?

No, I did not, at least, not in my original post.I simply stated my opinion and after all, it is war zone.
Quote:
Where are you from, if you don't mind? Did you mention Russia earlier, or am I crazy? I ask bc I'm brewing my first kombucha and I'm all excited...

I am from Russia, technically, from a former USSR, on of the Middle Asian republics, both my parents were from Ukrain though.
I used to make kambucha back home all the time) ( we called it tea mushroom, loved it, altough the fungus may grow quite large and looks scary, LOL. I am thinking to start brewing it here, again, it has pleasant taste and very good for overall health. Have you tried beet kvas? It is fermented beet drink, not beet juice, it is rather low carb but it great liver cleanser (oops, I am afrad this may start another round).
have you read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon? great book and has many good recipes for traditional food.
Best,
D.
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