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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 08:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Default It's The Sugar, Folks

Mark Bittman of the NYT Opinionator summarizes a new study on sugar and rates of diabetes, starting and concluding by echoing Lustig, Sugar is Indeed Toxic


Quote:
It’s the Sugar, Folks
By MARK BITTMAN

Sugar is indeed toxic. It may not be the only problem with the Standard American Diet, but it’s fast becoming clear that it’s the major one.

A study published in the Feb. 27 issue of the journal PLoS One links increased consumption of sugar with increased rates of diabetes by examining the data on sugar availability and the rate of diabetes in 175 countries over the past decade. And after accounting for many other factors, the researchers found that increased sugar in a population’s food supply was linked to higher diabetes rates independent of rates of obesity.

In other words, according to this study, obesity doesn’t cause diabetes: sugar does.

The study demonstrates this with the same level of confidence that linked cigarettes and lung cancer in the 1960s. As Rob Lustig, one of the study’s authors and a pediatric endocrinologist at the University of California, San Francisco, said to me, “You could not enact a real-world study that would be more conclusive than this one.”

The study controlled for poverty, urbanization, aging, obesity and physical activity. It controlled for other foods and total calories. In short, it controlled for everything controllable, and it satisfied the longstanding “Bradford Hill” criteria for what’s called medical inference of causation by linking dose (the more sugar that’s available, the more occurrences of diabetes); duration (if sugar is available longer, the prevalence of diabetes increases); directionality (not only does diabetes increase with more sugar, it decreases with less sugar); and precedence (diabetics don’t start consuming more sugar; people who consume more sugar are more likely to become diabetics).

The key point in the article is this: “Each 150 kilocalories/person/day increase in total calorie availability related to a 0.1 percent rise in diabetes prevalence (not significant), whereas a 150 kilocalories/person/day rise in sugar availability (one 12-ounce can of soft drink) was associated with a 1.1 percent rise in diabetes prevalence.” Thus: for every 12 ounces of sugar-sweetened beverage introduced per person per day into a country’s food system, the rate of diabetes goes up 1 percent. (The study found no significant difference in results between those countries that rely more heavily on high-fructose corn syrup and those that rely primarily on cane sugar.)

This is as good (or bad) as it gets, the closest thing to causation and a smoking gun that we will see. (To prove “scientific” causality you’d have to completely control the diets of thousands of people for decades. It’s as technically impossible as “proving” climate change or football-related head injuries or, for that matter, tobacco-caused cancers.) And just as tobacco companies fought, ignored, lied and obfuscated in the ’60s (and, indeed, through the ’90s), the pushers of sugar will do the same now.

But as Lustig says, “This study is proof enough that sugar is toxic. Now it’s time to do something about it.”

The next steps are obvious, logical, clear and up to the Food and Drug Administration. To fulfill its mission, the agency must respond to this information by re-evaluating the toxicity of sugar, arriving at a daily value — how much added sugar is safe? — and ideally removing fructose (the “sweet” molecule in sugar that causes the damage) from the “generally recognized as safe” list, because that’s what gives the industry license to contaminate our food supply.

On another front, two weeks ago a coalition of scientists and health advocates led by the Center for Science in the Public Interest petitioned the F.D.A. to both set safe limits for sugar consumption and acknowledge that added sugars, rather than lingering on the “safe” list, should be declared unsafe at the levels at which they’re typically consumed. (The F.D.A. has not yet responded to the petition.)

Allow me to summarize a couple of things that the PLoS One study clarifies. Perhaps most important, as a number of scientists have been insisting in recent years, all calories are not created equal. By definition, all calories give off the same amount of energy when burned, but your body treats sugar calories differently, and that difference is damaging.

And as Lustig lucidly wrote in “Fat Chance,” his compelling 2012 book that looked at the causes of our diet-induced health crisis, it’s become clear that obesity itself is not the cause of our dramatic upswing in chronic disease. Rather, it’s metabolic syndrome, which can strike those of “normal” weight as well as those who are obese. Metabolic syndrome is a result of insulin resistance, which appears to be a direct result of consumption of added sugars. This explains why there’s little argument from scientific quarters about the “obesity won’t kill you” studies; technically, they’re correct, because obesity is a marker for metabolic syndrome, not a cause.

The take-away: it isn’t simply overeating that can make you sick; it’s overeating sugar. We finally have the proof we need for a verdict: sugar is toxic.

A version of this article appeared in print on 02/28/2013, on page A29 of the NewYork edition with the headline: It’s The Sugar, Folks.


http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...-folks/?emc=rss


The Study: http://www.plosone.org/article/info...al.pone.0057873


The Diet Doctor has a Guardian article linked in his post on this study:
http://www.dietdoctor.com/surprise-...r-more-diabetes
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 09:15
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
In other words, according to this study, obesity doesn’t cause diabetes: sugar does.


Contrast and compare:
You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes!

I've always maintained she was wrong about this. The good news is a lot of type 2's can eat their way OUT of diabetes.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 14:16
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Contrast and compare:
You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes!

I've always maintained she was wrong about this. The good news is a lot of type 2's can eat their way OUT of diabetes.


That was the first thing that leapt to my mind, too, Nancy. I agree with you. If I hadn't eaten all that sugar for so many years, I doubt I'd have found myself on the brink of diabetes. Maybe Jenny Ruhl didn't eat her way to diabetes, but lots of us did.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 09:43
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Quote:
And as Lustig lucidly wrote in “Fat Chance,” his compelling 2012 book that looked at the causes of our diet-induced health crisis, it’s become clear that obesity itself is not the cause of our dramatic upswing in chronic disease. Rather, it’s metabolic syndrome, which can strike those of “normal” weight as well as those who are obese. Metabolic syndrome is a result of insulin resistance, which appears to be a direct result of consumption of added sugars. This explains why there’s little argument from scientific quarters about the “obesity won’t kill you” studies; technically, they’re correct, because obesity is a marker for metabolic syndrome, not a cause.


Quoting from Bittman's article, above, I think Jenny Ruhl and Mark Bittman are saying the same thing. The point is that being overweight does not give you diabetes. Eating an excess of carbohydrates (as defined by what your body can handle) can cause diabetes to be expressed if you have the genetic background to develop it. Not everyone who is fat, even obese, will develop diabetes, and plenty of thin people will develop it (and have worse outcomes than the overweight). Not everyone who has insulin resistance will go on to diabetes either, and again I would suspect either contributing or protective genes. And I would venture that not everyone who eats a lot of sugar goes on to develop IR. Why the difference?

You can eliminate the symptoms of insulin resistance and diabetes by reducing carbs, and you will probably lose weight in the process. Simply losing weight without reducing carbs, if that is even possible, is probably not as effective in reducing IR and diabetes. But you can never really cure it - return to eating carbs and the IR will come back, and perhaps diabetes will follow.

I'm really pleased to see Bittman putting the blame on sugar consumption rather than being overweight. Now if he could only make the connection that vegan eating is (generally) higher in sugar than Paleo.

I'm a big believer in low carb eating - it's changed my life for the better. But would I be here if I'd been dealt better genes? I don't know.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:37
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Labhrain Labhrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
Quoting from Bittman's article, above, I think Jenny Ruhl and Mark Bittman are saying the same thing. The point is that being overweight does not give you diabetes. Eating an excess of carbohydrates (as defined by what your body can handle) can cause diabetes to be expressed if you have the genetic background to develop it. Not everyone who is fat, even obese, will develop diabetes, and plenty of thin people will develop it (and have worse outcomes than the overweight). Not everyone who has insulin resistance will go on to diabetes either, and again I would suspect either contributing or protective genes. And I would venture that not everyone who eats a lot of sugar goes on to develop IR. Why the difference?


I was just getting ready to write the same thing regarding the similarities, rather than differences, in what Ruhl and Bittman are saying, but Liz, you've done a wonderful job of doing so. I don't see the contrast at all. What Ruhl says (as well as Bittman) makes sense. I have watched as most of the men in my family eat junk, junk, junk and never become diabetic. They live to ripe old ages, with few health problems. The women, however, no matter what manner of eating they try in attempting to be healthy, always seem to end up with it. I may, too. I have too many signs and have been on the edge for a while. I figure that eating low carb will, at least, put it off to the point where it may never be full blown. I know there are no guarantees, but I certainly want to give it a fighting chance. Those without the genetic makeup for it, though, simply don't have to concern themselves with this, no matter what crap they choose to eat. They may get fat, but they don't get diabetic.

All that said, nowhere does Ruhl state that diet plays no role. She, in fact, points out near the end of her article that a high carb diet does, indeed, play a role in those who are genetically predisposed. Her point, though, is that eating crap and being fat are not THE causes of diabetes. And, that oversimplification is what we've seen put out there again and again. And, it is wrong.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:00
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ojoj ojoj is offline
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Its so obvious that sugar is the reason why people get "sugar diabetes" (as it used to be called when I was a kid!!) and why they become overweight and ill.

When we were all kids, sugar was known to make you fat, rot teeth and was a nono for diabetics. we maybe sprinkled it sparingly on cereals and fruit and maybe a small spoonful in a cup of tea. We may have had an occasional chocolate bar or biscuit. Now look, its everywhere, in cereals, in ready meals, in bread......

If it were to be invented today it would be banned as a highly addictive drug that causes disfigurement, illness and death - a class A drug!! and we give it to children FFS!!!!!

Jo xxxx
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:06
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Quoting from Bittman's article, above, I think Jenny Ruhl and Mark Bittman are saying the same thing. The point is that being overweight does not give you diabetes. Eating an excess of carbohydrates (as defined by what your body can handle) can cause diabetes to be expressed if you have the genetic background to develop it. Not everyone who is fat, even obese, will develop diabetes, and plenty of thin people will develop it (and have worse outcomes than the overweight). Not everyone who has insulin resistance will go on to diabetes either, and again I would suspect either contributing or protective genes. And I would venture that not everyone who eats a lot of sugar goes on to develop IR. Why the difference?

Genes, baby! Genetics load the gun, diet pulls the trigger. There are probably genetic variants that make people resistant to developing diabetes. I remember Jenny made that comment that her grandmother lived on sugar and never got diabetes, as if that proved her case. It proves nothing except her grandmother probably had gotten lucky in the genetic draw.

You can't really fix a syndrome like diabetes so you can go back to ingesting what caused it to begin with. Just like you can't cure heavy metal poisoning and expect to go back to consuming arsenic again.

Jenny is correct in saying it isn't obesity, per se, that caused the diabetes. Obesity is probably nature's way of protecting you from what causes Type 2 diabetes, over consumption of sugars.

But where I believe she is wrong is in saying the diabetic didn't play a part in their diabetes. However, you can hardly blame them when all the information they're getting is so terribly wrong and there's so much ignorance about the part sugar and fructose is playing in this.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 21:38
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Genes, baby! Genetics load the gun, diet pulls the trigger. There are probably genetic variants that make people resistant to developing diabetes. I remember Jenny made that comment that her grandmother lived on sugar and never got diabetes, as if that proved her case. It proves nothing except her grandmother probably had gotten lucky in the genetic draw.



This is a great analogy. If you load the gun, but do not pull the trigger, nothing happens. Likewise, if you do not load the gun and pull the trigger, nothing happens. What I hear Jenny Ruhl saying (and what I believe as well) is that it takes both genetic propensity (whether that is normal or abnormal genes), or some external event such as a virus or environmental toxin, and a high carb diet to develop type 2 diabetes.

That genetic propensity to resist developing diabetes is what Ruhl would call "normal".
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Old Fri, Mar-01-13, 05:19
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Originally Posted by Liz53
That genetic propensity to resist developing diabetes is what Ruhl would call "normal".


And that's the part I question. Because look around... the people who DON'T get get overweight eating the Standard American Diet... they ARE outliers!
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Mar-01-13, 09:36
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Originally Posted by WereBear
And that's the part I question. Because look around... the people who DON'T get get overweight eating the Standard American Diet... they ARE outliers!


Absolutely, I agree that SAD makes most people overweight. But does everyone who is overweight get diabetes? No. Do people who are not overweight get diabetes? Yes. Does overweight lead to diabetes? I would say it increases the chances.

It is clear, and Jenny Ruhl says this as well, that diabetes will be expressed in some who eat a high carb diet, and that eating low carb will eliminate the symptoms of high blood sugar/insulin for most of them while they continue to eat that way. Is it a cure - that is, does it prevent a reoccurrence? No. Return to high carb eating and high blood sugar/disturbed insulin will return.

Will a high carb diet make everyone fat and diabetic? No. Why? I think epigenetics is an excellent theory, but has it been fully tested? I think it requires further study.

I think we are just as prone to fall into conventional thinking as other groups. Sometimes I think we on this board, a group with a tendency to over weight and blood sugar problems (why else would we be here?), tend to see the world through our particular prism. The conventional wisdom is that overweight leads to diabetes. Sure they are correlated, but is overweight causative? Likewise, eating a high carb diet is correlated with diabetes, but is it truly causative? Is eating a high carb diet ALL it takes to become diabetic? I haven't seen any studies that directly answer that question but I'd love to see links. I'm educable, but I'm not going to make the leap to causation yet.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:14
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Nancy, I think we agree on most everything but the title of her article. I think she is only trying to say that overweight does not cause diabetes. I can see how the title could be misleading if you do not read the article. But if you know Jenny Ruhl's sites, you know she is all for strict control of blood sugar, and carbohydrate restriction is a big part of that.

Don't forget we are some of the most carb-informed people out there, and know the fine points. I think her article is directed at the average Joe on the street who has just been told by his doctor to lose 20 lbs because his excess weight has made him insulin resistant or diabetic. It's not necessarily for those who already know that it is excess carbohydrates not excess weight that contribute to IR or diabetes.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:43
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
Nancy, I think we agree on most everything but the title of her article. I think she is only trying to say that overweight does not cause diabetes. I can see how the title could be misleading if you do not read the article. But if you know Jenny Ruhl's sites, you know she is all for strict control of blood sugar, and carbohydrate restriction is a big part of that.

Don't forget we are some of the most carb-informed people out there, and know the fine points. I think her article is directed at the average Joe on the street who has just been told by his doctor to lose 20 lbs because his excess weight has made him insulin resistant or diabetic. It's not necessarily for those who already know that it is excess carbohydrates not excess weight that contribute to IR or diabetes.

I've actually debated this with her on this very forum. At that time she believed diabetes was not linked to diet at all and cited her grandmother's ability to eat sugar in massive quantities as proof. Does she still believe it? I don't know.

Also, she says obesity is rising and diabetes is not. Not sure where she got that information from. T2 diabetes is growing hugely, especially among the population segment that didn't used to experience diabetes: young people and children.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6145a4.htm

Last edited by Nancy LC : Thu, Feb-28-13 at 10:53.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:52
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I've actually debated this with her on this very forum. At that time she believed diabetes was not linked to diet at all and cited her grandmother's ability to eat sugar in massive quantities as proof. Does she still believe it? I don't know.


Ah, well you have the edge on me in that. I've never directly debated her, I've only read her various sites and find them to be extremely helpful. Do you have a link to the thread (I know that's alot to ask) -? I'd love to see her argument. I seem to have this memory that she thought she was type 2 for a long time and only later found out she was MODY...perhaps that changed her thoughts? I don't know either. I do know she has advocated a few more carbs as the years go on, but I figure that falls into the YMMV category.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 11:15
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Wed, Sep-17-08, 14:01
Nancy,

A normal person can live on sugar water and not develop any blood sugar-related health problems.

My mom is 92, has a fasting bg of 83, has eaten a high carb diet all her life, still does, and she also still has normal blood pressure.

She has some other serious problems caused by chemotherapy for a cancer caused by a known cancerogen, but she survived the cancer.

Seeing her response to her diet made me realize the extent to which carbs hurt only those of us who have underlying genetic problems. (I got mine from my dad.)

There are some good studies showing that people with normal blood sugar metabolisms lose weight just as well on high carb as low carb diets. But people with blood sugar problems DO not.

This is why the diet studies are so confusing, because they may sort out people with diabetes but never give you information about prediabetes in the group being studied. If there are a lot of truly normal people, you'll get a very different result than if there are a lot of people with prediabetes.

It took some googling skills *cracks knuckles* but I eventually figured out she posted as lottadata.

My mistake... it was her mother. Whether it is genetics, or something else (chemicals in the environment like BPA or both)... sugar water is going to push lots of us into diabetes.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/...p/t-382162.html
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-13, 10:42
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Labhrain Labhrain is offline
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LOL, I see I'm late again. Oh, well.
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