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Old Tue, Jan-01-08, 14:34
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NorthPeace NorthPeace is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 388
 
Plan: Nutritarian
Stats: 248/208/168 Male 5'9"
BF:Waist 46?/34/?
Progress: 50%
Location: British Columbia
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Sorry, Leasmom for hijacking the thread, but Gaelen does not understand at all where I am coming from and is misrepresenting my POV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelen
Oh my.
That advice sounds a lot more like the 'standard party line' of 90s era low fat vegetarians than like a practical way to be a 21st century vegetarian low carber. Eating this way is NOT about CONTROLLING YOUR CALORIES, for pete's sake. And that advice is NOT any way at all to 'stay full' or effectively follow a vegetarian low carb plan.

I don’t control my calories, I control the type of food I eat (mainly veg, fruit, pulses nut & seeds). I find it impossible to consume over 2400 kcal/d, and average 1850 whenever I care to count them. I get more than 30% from fat; that is not low fat. Bulk, fibre, volume does physically fill you. It is a law of physics not a party line. When we very overweight we only need about 12% of calories from protein, 10% from carbs and 15% from fat, so why not eat micronutrient rich foods, but be full, and let our bodies supply the remaining calories?

Satiation is more complex however. Seems to me it can be one or any combination of being physically full, getting the nutrients your body needs, including fat in a meal, feeding an addiction, feeding an emotional need, and the presence or absence of ketones in the blood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelen
First, many people cannot tolerate 'a pound of leafy greens a day.' To use a pictorial example, that's more than three full 5 oz., 6 cup bags of the pre-washed baby spinach available from the vegetable section of the supermarket (the standard, two bags for five dollars size is only about 5 oz.!) It's an entire HEAD of kale, including the stems. Frankly, that may work for you, NorthPeace, but in practice, a good-sized salad of chopped greens (half of one of those bags of spinach) is only about 3 cups of greens. That's less than a quarter of what you're recommending here. I eat some amount of greens every day--but 1-3 cups is a long way from a full pound.

For me the first 7 days were rather explosive but it settled down nicely after that. It might have been safer for my coworkers and me if I increased daily consumption more gradually, by say 1oz/d each week. It appears to be a matter of getting sufficient microflora established. Yes it is essentially a head of romaine lettuce or kale, or a typical bunch of spinach. I buy one of each and they last me four or five days. Besides that, most days I will eat about 8 oz of cooked greens or crucifers. Keep in mind though that I am a male with a larger frame than the OP. If chewing takes too long you can make blended smoothies. If the fibre/bulk is a problem you can juice. (ETA: Cooking also makes it easier. We are not talking about eating 4-5 large salads a day.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelen
Second, the human body needs adequate protein and good fats to feel full and stay that way for longer than an hour. The fullness most people would feel after eating a pound of leafy greens is gas, not a feeling of satiety--and you wouldn't be getting anywhere near the recommended adequate protein levels your body needs by going early 90s low fat vegetarian.

I get 18% from protein, about 85g/d. I believe the RDA for males is around 55g/d protein. I am not a proponent of 90s low fat vegetarianism and frankly don’t know much about it. The only protein risk to a properly planned vegan diet that I know of is that some women cannot make enough of their own taurine, and need some animal products or a supplement. Some low fat vegans may be deficient in leucine or isoleucine. Having the right microflora, chewing thoroughly and not overeating help a lot with minimizing gas.

Leasmom, I agree with Gaelen’s recommendations for nuts, seeds, nut butters, avocados, pulses and eggs. However, EVOO and butter seems to be too little benefit for the calories you take in, offering no important nutrition that you can’t get from foods that contain more micronutrients per calorie. Gaelen, keep in mind that a vegetarian is not going to be consuming less than 100g net carbs/d, so heavy reliance on fat for fuel won’t give a vegetarian the appetite suppressing effect that ketosis brings.
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