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Originally Posted by dina1957
So pre-med students failed physiology or they did not seem to undertsnad it? How they managed to get undergraduate degree then  I belive it includes more than just memorizing anatomy. |
Just personal experience with many pre-med. I guess it's possible I've just run into all the 'slow' students, but with the 60+ I've had class with, it was the rule, with a few notable exceptions.
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Originally Posted by dina1957
In my home country, my pre-med students peers also took physics, calculus, phys. and oranic chem. and all of this requires understanding graphs and functions, I believe. We just took physics, calculus,a nd phys. chem.
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I think they require the same thing here in America, but maybe we are just dumber here. Maybe Americans can start going to medical and graduate school internationally? It would sure open up some spots for all of the international students here.
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Originally Posted by dina1957
MD is not a mechanic, since human body is not a mechanism, where each part can be isolated and fixed separately. BTW, if a mechanic can't find a problem, he is not a mechanic at all. I work with diffrent type of equipment and we never failed to find a problem and troubleshoot it.
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You have a really negative view of what a 'mechanism' is; it's not clear to me that 'mechanism' means that you dont consider the inter-relationship of parts. I imagine most mechanical engineers would disagree.
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Originally Posted by dina1957
Human body is not a mechanism, it is a biochemical system that involved hundreds of hormones. Just endocrine system alone consists of many glands, not only pancrease, and these glands works synergetically and define the rest of the functions. Unfortunately, many choose to ignore this fact, and simply fixated on one hormone, insulin.
This system is too complex and poorly understood, and each part (organ) can't be troubleshooted and fixed JUST BY ISOLATION. Unfortunately, this approach is used in western medicine and many problems arise because of it. No singe medication exist that treats one problem without creating a dozen of others but this is the best drs can do so far.
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I don't think referring to doctors as 'mechanics' and implying that the body is a 'mechanism' is limiting at all, but feel free to set fire to the straw man. FYI, my point was that many car mechanics have superiour skills of diagnosis than doctors, and that more-or-less the mechanisms/systems they work on are both complicated. It's ok that you don't agree with me, but you need not create some innacurate model of my beliefs. Just ask. 
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Originally Posted by dina1957
As for cholesterol in heart desease connection, it is not completely missunderstood. Those who have choosen to ignore high CHO, take their own chance.
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I think it is pretty clear that the connection between cholesterol and heart disease is poor. I can back up my assertions, can you? (FYI, I won't be moved by a statement of 'doctors say...')
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Originally Posted by dina1957
Insulin and Bgs fluctuations are of course, damaging, but again, does not explain heart desease and atherosclerosis progression, high blood pressure, and other causes of heart atack and stroke in individuals with normal blood sugar and insulin, and follow up death from MI and stroke.
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Ok, suppose that is true, what ya got for me?
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Originally Posted by dina1957
Low TRG is just a matter of dietary changes, they fluctuate a lot, and not really damamaging. They can spike after one meal and drop sharply, even if you overdone alcohol night before. High LDL is something that is problematic in terms of lowering, many despite proper diet and exercise, normal BGs, still have high LDL.
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But it is not clear that high LDL is really a problem. Data suggests that LDL with low triglycerides is not a problem. It is NOT LDL that is a problem. Or do you have data to suggest otherwise? (And to be clear, we aren't looking for a mere correlation, as suggested in the data, high LDL with concurrent low triglyceride is not a problem.)
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Originally Posted by dina1957
Add to the picture other risk factors: family history of heart desease, any inflamatory reponse to autoimmune deseases (psoriasis, lupus, etc.) and any systemic inflamation in general - and here you have, perfect reason for LDL to be problematic.
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That suggests that it is NOT LDL that is problematic.
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Originally Posted by dina1957
It is the same narrow view that got us in troubles with low fat madness. Before it was all about fat, now it is all about sugar, insulin, and carbs. Let's wait another couple decades, and we may find something esle...
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From my side of the fence, it looks like you have a narrow focus on LDL.
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Originally Posted by dina1957
As for drs, I still find it facinating with their knowlege, my brain work very well with graphs, mathematical equations, and everything can be logcially derived and calculated. But I would never be able to perform any surgery, even minor, although I know how to give injections, but i am still facinated with drs who save lives and perform miracles on daily basis. The more I read on human biology and biochemistry, the more I realize how hard it is to practice medicine. IMO, mathematically speaking, human body has too many variables to be desribed by few equations and graphs, as mechanism systems and equipment, and does not fit into laws of physics and themodynamics for the most part of it.
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Miracles? '..does not fit into laws of physics and thermodymanics'? Well, write up a paper and win the Nobel, seriously. For myself, I don't identify medical doctors as 'miracle workers', in fact from personal experience find that many really aren't all that smart. I'm not the smartest guy, but I'm not the dumbest. Some of the current thinking coming from the 'medical establishment' is comically wrong. Well, it would be comic if it didn't have such dire effects on people's lives.
Kind regards
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