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Originally Posted by dina1957
Of course not, but if you have high BP you are at greater risk for MI and stroke.
Reply by ReginaW:
Then you agree it's not a *cause* of MI or stroke, or even CVD?
Reply by Dina1957:
No, I think that high BP is indeed cause of MI and stroke.
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What *caused* the high blood pressure?
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Quote by ReginaW:
Normal weight, slim individuals can still carry around too much visceral fat (abdominal fat in their middle) without any outward indication of overweight or obesity....too much fat in the abdomen triggers a cascade of "mis-fires" in the endocrine system and CNS....
Reply by Dina1957:
What???? I am sorry but too much visceral fat will give overall skinny pesron protruding belly, or I am not sure how else one can spot visceral fat (CAt scan perhaps)? The visceral fat is a sign of IR and high insulin, but slims I refer to did not carry excessive visceral fat either.
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Some of the ideas you spout - scary!
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Quote by Dina1957:
It is not the visceral fat that "miss-fires" at endocrine system, it is broken endocrine system that causes fat accumulation in viscera."
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So, in your world the endocrine system breaks first and that makes someone gain weight?~
Scatching head......Why'd the endocrine system "break" in the first place?
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Quote by Dina1957:
We all have certain amount of visceral fat which surrounds internal organs and protect them from injury, in other word, this fat is an organ itself.
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Correct
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Quote by Dina 1957:
But higher than normal % is the problem, and it is due to higher than normal insulin. It is not possible for skinny folks to have high insulin, since insulin is fat storage promoting hormone, so if it is low fat accumulation mechanism is turned off.
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Wrong.~
Maybe try googling "medically obese normal weight" and/or "metabolically obese normal weight" and see what pops?
It is a misconception and over-simplification to think diabetes, specifically type 2, is simply caused accumulation of too much fat and if one can avoid overt outward indications of too much fat (overweight/obesity) than they're somehow protected from developing type 2.
Yes, those who are lean/slim are at a lower risk - a far lower percentage of those with normal weight BMI develop type 2 diabetes - but that is no guarantee they are immune from it....here's a clue Dina - look past the adiposity and read up on insulin receptors, OK?
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Quote by Dina1957:
Diabetes is a very complex disorder, true, that not always associated with poor diet and obesity , but it is also linked to pituitary, adrenal, and pancreatic tumors (even benign), exposure to certain chemicals, steroid hormone use to treat other health conditions, defective genes, daily exposure to strong emotional stress, etc.
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Wow, sorta like the endcrine system being intricately involved as previously noted, 'eh?
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Dina1957:
Most 20% of those skinny T2 are in reality misdiagnosted T1 or so called T 1.5, and/or have MODY.
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May I ask your clinical experience with this Dr. Dina? Your data to support this notion that most of those diagnosed T2, who are lean/slim, are not T2 but T1 or MODY?
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Quote from Dina1957:
Diabetes is classified as lack of insulin or inability of the body to use insulin (IR and T2). So, if one is skim and still has high BGs, there is rather lack of insulin.
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Ya think? Back to insulin receptors Dina.....and what's happening, or rather not happening, with them in the body.
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Quote from Dina1957:
What causes b-cells to start producing less insulin - this is completely different topic, but not IR in this case, otherwise, all folkds who were 250+ pounds would be diabetics (yourself included). Staying slim is good enough not to become T2 if there is not other conditions.
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Remaining normal weight is NOT a guarantee Dina......
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Quote from Dina1957:
No, unfortunately, my family member never were part of the studies, both of my parents are dead.
But my one side of my DH family memebers lives in Caucasian region so we vacationed there every year, many centerians live there, so I had many opportunities. Those ppl slim, trim, lived slow pace/ low ambition lives, ate in moderation, not much sat. fat, lots of veggies and fruit, lots of red wine, sang, dance, etc. Their motto was : do not rush, do not be greedy, do not stress much about small things, and you will live to be 100. As to every rule, there is exception, so yes, there are some folks who lived stressfull life, and still managed to die at old age. I have read and posted links to many papers research longevity in caucasian region, and I don' understand why you have this tone (sharkly reply in your own words). No, I don't have opportunity to talk to drs and researches, but I have read enough literature on the subject.
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You need to read more on the subject then.....longevity in the Caucus region is one piece of a very large puzzle to begin to understand human longevity - that includes a large variety of ethicities, cultural traditions and environments.
Extrapolating data from one area to extend to the whole human population doesn't work - never has, never will - since there is no harmony across regions and countries with diet, activity patterns or environement. Heck, the experience of an individual within the US is varied - some live in urban areas, others rural or suburban - so even though they share a common nationality, their day-to-day is totally different!
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Quote from Dina1957:
This is OT, but please, provide links that no vegeterians lived to be 100.
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It was recently
in the news - much to the dismay of a vegetarian research assistant, investigating longevity of centenarians, none were found to be vegetarian in those studied by researchers at Albert Einstein School of Medicine in NY.
"Centenarians — for obvious reasons — are being intensively studied for the clues they may offer about aging. If they're doing something right, Dr. Nir Barzilai, who studies centenarians at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, says he hasn't found their secret yet. So far, he's asked 400 of them all kinds of questions about the way they live their lives, and "I don't have anything to tell you," he says. They don't seem to live more healthful lives. Among the 400, he hasn't found a single vegetarian. This bugs his research coordinator, who is a vegetarian herself, he says. "She has almost made it her ambition now to find one.""
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Quote from ReginaW:
Bad assumption - lean individuals are found IR each day; overt obesity/overweight is not the end all be all indication a person is IR.
Quote from Dina1957:
Links please.
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Here's a couple to get you started.....
Glucose tolerance and insulin action in healty centenarians
Preserved antilipolytic insulin action is associated with a less atherogenic plasma lipid profile in healthy centenarians
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Quote from ReginaW:
That's the best you can do Dina?
Quote from Dina1957:
and the sharkly response is because I simply stated that no one knows for sure what does and does not causes heart desease, and making assumptions based on the articles we read does not count. We can find 100 folds more studies linking cholesterol to heart desease than NOT, we both know it.
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Snarky? Nah....you tried to set up a strawman, I don't do strawman arguements. Simple as that.
And you assertion that we can find 100 folds more studied linking cholesterol to heart disease is another one - so you continue to believe that if you'd like; my review of various studies leads to a different conclusion.
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Quote from Dina1957:
No normal weight kids will be subject to CHO testing, unless they have existing CHD. Please, provide links to the studies showing statins being routinely Rx to normal weight healthy children with elevated CHO.
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Well, they've been doing it for 35-years
here, in Beaver County, PA.
"Its Healthy Heart Program, which conducts blood lipid panel tests in local seventh-grade pupils, has been in effect for more than 35 years."
Oh, and I didn't say statins are being "routinely" prescribed to healthy kids, now did I?