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-   -   Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484792)

BawdyWench Sat, Mar-13-21 10:15

DON'T EVEN SAY THAT!!!!! I'm having enough trouble trying to reach the one I have now. Still at 87.

BawdyWench Sun, Mar-14-21 07:14

I'm watching the recording of the Q&A 2. Marty just said (slide 4) that by Day 10 you can lock in one meal per day to be your Main Meal (based on family obligations, schedule, exercise, etc.). That much I knew. What I didn't know until now is that you don't have to test your BG before that meal, only before your Discretionary meals! You can, of course, but they don't require it. Maybe that's in the FAQs, but if so I sure missed it. It's actually good news because for whatever reason, I often forget to take a reading before dinner.

thud123 Sun, Mar-14-21 07:57

I missed the QA yesterday - I'll check it out later today. My trigger has dropped - i'm staying pertty close to trigger and not trying to bring it down too fast. If i feel a little hungry, prick and eat if near trigger value - if above I have a pretty good feel for when to try again then eat. Mostly 1-2 meals a day so far.

JEY100 Sun, Mar-14-21 12:36

FAQ#95!
One of my goals besides lowering waking BG and get away from the "adaptive glucose sparing" response from eating a very low carb diet, was also to regain some metabolic flexibility. To be able to eat high carb at times, and even sugar, without sending my BG into a tail-spin.
True confession time here (not on the DDF FB page). We returned to a club to have the traditional Sunday brunch for the first time in over a year...a celebration of sorts and all being fully vaccinated. I had sushi, shrimp & grits, and even a small serving of decadent chocolate dessert with other low carb sides too. A real test of high carb foods and after...only 116 from a pre-meal of 93!

Since August 5th, I have been upping my carbs and mostly eating TMAD in a 5-6 hour window. A combination of the P:E diet and DDF not only keeps me at a healthy BMI, but is correcting my blood glucose levels too. I'm pretty happy now...but then that could be all the sugar :lol:

GRB5111 Sun, Mar-14-21 12:47

That's great news and testimony to the fact that TMAD as informed by DDF works. I very occasionally (rarely?) eat high carb foods that I've loved over my life (fried clams being a New Englander and pizza), and with the discipline of low carb, TMAD, and meter confirmation, bounce back very quickly without the steep rise in BG many would expect from having gone "off the grid." Proof you can train your metabolism and your hunger by eating the right foods at the correct times.

JEY100 Sun, Mar-14-21 13:57

and three hours after brunch ...98!
Now you have me thinking of pizza...I would have to choose between Frank Pepe in New Haven (near where I grew up) or Regina's in Boston (college and first job). Where does "off the grid" take you, Rob?

BawdyWench Sun, Mar-14-21 14:59

Janet, that's great news! I see good things coming out of this approach. I'm doing 2 meals a day, too. I'm REALLY hungry for the first one, which I have sometime between 11:00 am and 1:00 pm. I'm finding if I eat more than a very small amount of food for lunch, though, that I'm not hungry for dinner. How can this be? Most days I'm eating less than 900 calories, often not even 700 calories and yet I feel good and am not at all hungry.

Woo-hoo!!!

GRB5111 Sun, Mar-14-21 17:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
and three hours after brunch ...98!
Now you have me thinking of pizza...I would have to choose between Frank Pepe in New Haven (near where I grew up) or Regina's in Boston (college and first job). Where does "off the grid" take you, Rob?

That's funny, as we have heard of the exceptional pizza quality in New Haven and have threatened to stop on our way up and back from Massachusetts. I hear it's great. I grew up in the South Shore, an area of coastal towns between Boston and Cape Cod, in a town called Hingham. So as mentioned, good fried clams are hard to resist, but I've never eaten them outside of New England. Good pizza is usually an annual or semi-annual thing for me and one of those is when we stay at the beach in the same South Shore area during the summer. Love wood fired pizza, and we have a good place in Northern VA. Those two types of meals primarily constitute "off the grid" for me today. I've stayed away from sweets and desserts, as I know from the past that those types of things are better left in the past. Sushi (love it) is an occasional treat as is traditional Chinese Dim Sum.

JEY100 Mon, Mar-15-21 03:52

I know Hingham only from traveling through on 3 to the Cape. Sure it has a few wonderful clam shacks and pizza. I should be more careful of recommending places...Iím basing it on experience and food as made 50 years ago, with a few quick visits through recent years.

Now back to a mash-up of DDF and trying to Optimize Food at the same time. One is leading to the best way not to eat, and the other encouraging more nutrients from more different foods. Even if I havenít been successful with the micronutrients, I know how to do it in theory, have the food lists, and have become comfortable with Cronometer. Last week of NO Masterclass, and looking forward to DDF without distractions.

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-15-21 05:04

Janet, do you think doing continuing DDF challenges is helping you stay on track? Do you learn more with each new challenge? I like having the app with sexy graphs and such, but the good old-fashioned spreadsheet gives you all the same info. Is it the online accountability that keeps you doing the challenges?

PS: I'm down a full 7 pounds now, in just over 3 weeks.

JEY100 Mon, Mar-15-21 07:19

Although I am now at a healthy BMI, I still have subcutaneous fat that could definitely go! Especially before the pool season. I think doing the challenges will help keep me accountable to try to reach a "stretch goal", a weight not seen since my 30s. There are two women moderators in their 70s as my inspiration...not only losing fat but one also manages her MS with diet and exercise. I like the group, it is kind and supportive as are the founders, and do learn little tidbits each day. This morning I mentioned the two podcasts would never have found on my own. Re-read the Gin Stephens books on IF. But you can always read the DDF and ON FB pages, and get much of the same information.

GRB5111 Mon, Mar-15-21 09:50

I think DDF with the P:E principles is one of the more effective approaches for me at this age (getting ready to turn 70) and at this stage in my WOE. Early on in my low carb days, it's likely I wouldn't have appreciated the P:E approach, as I was still learning how I responded to a variety of low carb eating approaches. Today, it's enabled me to fine tune, lose some, and maintain when I'm in situations where the foods I typically eat are not available. I'm working on increasing lean mass (harder as we age) and decreasing my onboard fat (BMI) to reach where my body wants to be. What do they say, the last 10-20% is the most difficult because we often have to employ different strategies.

I, too, like the support group element, and I'm hoping that Marty and Alex can find a way to enable those of us who avoid FB to participate in the near future. Until then, I'm on my own with the books and manuals I've purchased, and by learning from and engaging with the folks on this forum.

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-15-21 09:58

Yes, those two women in their 70s are definite inspirations for me. Once a woman has moved past menopause, it seems that none of the plans out there work anymore. So many of the "experts" are young males, and sorry, but what works for them does not work for a post-menopausal woman. I think that's part of the reason I resisted the DDF plan for so long. Even though Ted Naiman is younger and male, his views on protein match what I've believed since starting my LC journey in the late 1990s. In fact, it's because Marty's thinking so closely meshes with Ted's thinking that I finally took the plunge.

Glad I did. :agree:

Kristine Tue, Mar-16-21 03:09

Okay, I'm throwing my hat in the ring, too. I find Marty's plan interesting, but I didn't consider it to really apply to me: my FBG is normal, I'm in the normal weight range, and frankly, I didn't have the time or opportunity to schedule myself to do all the finger pricking or delaying meal times. But now that I'm laid off again and I have a nearly-full box of test strips that are going to expire next month, what the heck.

I suspect this will be pretty boring, with lots of 4.0 - 5.0 (80-ish) waking readings, and not much of a rise after meals. I'm more curious what effect activity will have. I think I'm one of those ones whose BG goes up after activity, but I've never tested consistently or looked for a pattern. I think what I want to get out of this is how I could better schedule activities vs eating vs sleeping. Not that I'll necessarily DO it - I like my schedule the way it is - but at least I'll know what tweaks I can make if I want to lose some of this perimenopausal fat gain.

Eh. Anyway, I'll report back anything interesting I observe.

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-16-21 04:52

Kristine, did you actually join the online challenge, or are you doing this on your own? If on your own and you need the spreadsheet, let me know and I can email it to you.

JEY100 Tue, Mar-16-21 04:55

The DDF manual is free to order. The question on Exercise is right up front.
Quote:
FAQ 4. How does exercise impact your blood glucose levels?
Taking a moderate paced walk or doing some low-intensity exercise can deplete your blood glucose. Exercise at a lower intensity (i.e. where you can still breathe and talk easily) will tend to burn more fat as well as lower your glucose. Meanwhile, higher intensity exercise will cause a release of stored energy from your liver, and you may see your blood glucose rise. Resistance training helps build your metabolically active lean mass, which will increase your overall metabolic rate.
If you do intense exercise, your body will release glucose into your bloodstream to fuel the activity. This is not a problem, just something to be conscious of if you happen to test your blood glucose after exercise.
People often donít feel hungry after exercise because of this elevated blood glucose effect. However, if you feel hungry after your workout and your blood glucose is still artificially elevated due to the exercise, donít be afraid to eat. You may find that eating before or after your workout helps you avoid more intense hunger later in the day (which often leads to poorer food choices).
If you do a heavy workout (e.g. high-intensity interval training, heavy squats or deadlifts that deplete glycogen stores), don't be surprised if you find yourself hungrier later in the day as your body tries to refill your glucose and fat fuel tanks. You can experiment with your meal timings to ensure you refuel before your blood glucose gets too low and you end up in an all-out binge.
Itís virtually impossible to accurately calculate the calories you burn during exercise. Itís also easy to overeat due to increased hunger after your workout. However, once the glucose surge has dissipated, your blood glucose will give you a good idea of whether you are over or under-fuelling over the long term.
To manage the fact that exercise can affect blood sugars, many people find it helpful to have their protein-focused Main Meal around their workout and then use their blood glucose trigger for any other Discretionary Meals during the day once their blood glucose has settled down.


Marty added a nifty little graphic with BG tracking intensity of exercise, which I can't figure out how to copy, but a moving scale of sorts.

Kristine Tue, Mar-16-21 06:09

Thanks, ladies. :) I haven't joined the challenge; just doing it off the freebie book and spreadsheet so far.

I'm curious about my own BG levels around activity because I'm admittedly inconsistent. I hate exercise and sometimes I go balls-to-the-wall with my strength training micro-workouts, but I often just mail it in. It would also be interesting for me to see other activity (mainly walking) as it varies in intensity - likewise, sometimes I'll boot it, but sometimes I'm just strolling.

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-17-21 06:15

I've been doing 2 meals a day, one between 11:00 am and 1:00 pm, and then dinner (main meal) around 6:00 pm. I'm quite hungry for my mid-day meal, though nothing I can't handle, but then often not very hungry at all for my main meal. Lunch is usually 6 oz ham or other protein, and 1 cup 0% yogurt with a scoop of collagen. Today I've decided to split that up and eat the yogurt as a breakfast, and then just the protein at lunch. We'll see how it goes in terms of hunger, BG, and weight.

I know we're not doing the spreadsheet with this Challenge, but I like to keep track there, too. This morning my waking BG was 98. An hour later it was 85 when I decided to have the yogurt early. I entered the 85 in the Hunger Training tab of the worksheet, and the cell turned red like it was a bad thing. I'm really curious why, since my trigger is 87 and my pre-meal BG was 85. Any ideas?

JEY100 Wed, Mar-17-21 06:35

No idea at all. The app would have given you a check and OK to eat. :thup:
I sometimes overeat protein and veggies at lunch...simple, easy stir-frys, and am then not much hungry for dinner. But I eat something.

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-17-21 06:54

OK, I'll ignore the shading in the spreadsheet. As I said, I usually do on average noon to 6:00 feeding (though only 2 meals, no snacks), and 18 hours of fasting. Yet when I enter these values into the spreadsheet, it shades it as yellow ("caution") for a 6-hour eating window. Only if I go down to a 4-hour window does it show green, which not everyone can or should do.

Does Marty go into detail on eating windows and meal skipping based on both weight and BG, as included in the spreadsheet and in the manual? Or is what we're seeing in the online Challenge basically what there is? Just excerpts from the Guides? I kind of thought it would be more structured or something. Like maybe a topic of discussion for each day. There are now 800 members in the challenge!

Not sure I'll sign up for another Challenge, but who knows. We have just 2 weeks left.

thud123 Wed, Mar-17-21 07:19

as far as I know there is no "eating window" it's all realated to how you feel (hunger) and how your pre-meal BG as far as I know. Yes I saw the 'window' thing on the spreadsheet but it's not mentioned yet in the course - I think the 'window' might have been used to help give hints or suggestions about what to do if you're morning BG is high, like eat earlier in day - whatever

You might want to check that spreadsheet to make sure that the formulas are extending to the new days you're entering. One that I had a while back didn't do that far into the future - it was the freebie.

I only skim the user questions and if it's not interesting I don't read. I keep up with all of the guides - and it's right out of the manuals so you can keep that for later I guess. I'm not finding much value from the facebook interactions other than surprise and humor ;) Lot's of folks new to fasting and I think it's a terrific way to approach it with something tangible like BG and I'm hoping the best that I get out of it is a better sense of when to eat, and by that, not putting eating off for so long and perhaps over eating.
I'm pretty expert at that!

JEY100 Wed, Mar-17-21 11:16

Are you filling out your Workbook? Good, because I am not, have another one for the Masterclass. :lol:

Workbook: "Day 25 - Using your blood glucose to guide your meal choices
Is there another phase of Data-Driven Fasting that you would like to try later?"


There are five pages in the Manual that cover Phases 3,4, and 5 (p59-65). You can ask questions about it toward the end IF you want to try them and are ready to in 30 days.

Marty asks a question everyday, people can comment, discuss, ask more questions about each topic. The Question "Who has seen their trigger start to drop?" has 100+ comments. Marty and Alex share a lot of extra info in their answers to all the questions received each day. I keep all notifications on so can read whatever they add to comments and questions. And then there is Clark Connery!

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-17-21 11:25

Yup, I've been reading and re-reading the workbook and the full manual, including the FAQs (just re-read them this morning, in fact). I didn't realize Marty was posting those questions every day -- thought it was just every once in a while. I have notifications turned on, and do check several times a day.

I'm really glad I signed up for the Challenge. It's a good way to get started on this plan. Just not sure I'll need to keep doing the online challenges. Even if I take the next one off, I can still join a future one if I need the extra accountability and guidance.

This is definitely working for me when nothing else has. For one thing, all the tracking has kept me motivated and interested.

thud123 Wed, Mar-17-21 11:29

You'll see new posts that your're supposed to keep up with in the Guides section - I have them all green checked. it's a lot of material - some kind of trivial but I checked them off none the less. This is how I'm following along, new daily post and any extra cirucular that shows up in Guides that are not complete.

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-17-21 15:00

Great minds think alike! The Guides section is a repeat of the DDF manual. If I've already read it in the manual and remember the content, it gets checked off right away.

JEY100 Thu, Mar-18-21 09:30

Alex just shared his personal wisdom on Scale Weight, and Bob opened a "room" to chat about about some question.

GRB5111 Thu, Mar-18-21 09:39

Landed in my Inbox yesterday, so some may have already viewed this, but worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yApNF4LJxYo

BawdyWench Thu, Mar-18-21 10:06

I find that with the DDF approach I feel myself leaning out before losing pounds. I'm down 2 inches in my waist, and all my pants are now looser not only in the waist but also in the thighs.

My left earlobe is looking pretty lean, too!

JEY100 Thu, Mar-18-21 11:40

My thighs have been stubbornly hanging on through LC, but I agree about them...have to check my ear lobes now. ;)

Rob, I saw that video with Bett Lucas (and hers with Marty covered more of the actual program). but WTH, SIX kids!! a full time career, big FB following, podcasts...and not one mention of home schooling the whole gang during Covid? how does she do this? OK, so her husband cooks...but do the kids all take care of themselves, including the 4 month old? :lol:

GRB5111 Thu, Mar-18-21 12:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Rob, I saw that video with Bett Lucas (and hers with Marty covered more of the actual program). but WTH, SIX kids!! a full time career, big FB following, podcasts...and not one mention of home schooling the whole gang during Covid? how does she do this? OK, so her husband cooks...but do the kids all take care of themselves, including the 4 month old? :lol:

I know. Hard to believe; yet, I like her attitude, approach to life, and her serving as an inspiration to embrace life, not fear it. With that many kids, my wife and I would/should have been committed . . . . . !


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