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BawdyWench Thu, Mar-04-21 12:11

Great! Now there are at least 3 of us on this forum participating. I'm glad I'm in with two experienced and wicked schmaht people so we can compare notes here.

I'm definitely not starting over and doing the baselining again. The first day I had two snacks (just to see how it would affect me), so that was 11 finger pokes that day. The second and third day I eliminated the snacks and breakfast since I don't usually have them, and also that brought it down to just 5 pokes a day (waking, before lunch, after lunch, before dinner, after dinner). This I can handle!

JEY100 Fri, Mar-05-21 04:38

Originally Posted by thud123
I'm joining. NO MC was a flop for me, Too much work but a good experience to see what others were doing and some of the foods folks were experimenting with. I'll take some of the ideas from there and mash up hybrid NODDF Nutrient Optimized Data Driven Fasting - hope to see you guys there - registering now and will do prep work before Sat.

So happy to see you try the DDF now, Undule Akinfar :)
I am definitely doing a Nutrient Optimising Light version...using my normal recipes, watching macros, a few micros when I think of it, but not going out of my way to make a stew with mackerel, oysters, and nutritional yeast. Some members do crazy recipes to smash the leaderboard. Did you get around to joining the Healthy Keto recipe group...I thought you would enjoy these creative types.
DDF does not focus on food, but it worked well for me beside lengthening morning fasts, I was eating Ted Naiman's lower fat/energy PE. A simple mash-up of nutrients and timing.

I keep putting off my "assignments" for catching up yet again with NO and reviewing/completing the start up info on DDF. Every day this week somehow went by, and now itís Friday! Now or never...see you on the Challenge page.

BawdyWench Fri, Mar-05-21 06:32

Remember that there's a video at 2:00 pm ET to kick off the challenge.

GRB5111 Fri, Mar-05-21 09:53

Great fun trolling this thread. I was originally signed up for NOMC for January 6 until I was informed a FB account was required. I'm one of those who runs the other way from social media accounts for professional and personal reasons, so the NO folks informed me that for the last session, it was required. However, they also indicated that they were looking at a way to provide future NOMCs without the FB element. We'll see, then again, I could always retire, as I've been putting it off for several years now. Hmmm, that's becoming a more desirable thought recently . . .

Based on the feedback here and in the other thread, I believe NOMC would have been too much for me. I've always tried to keep my eating lifestyle simple based on personal N=1s and being informed. This is why I favor DDF, particularly having gone through the 3-day baselining a couple months ago. It makes a lot of sense, and I believe I eat very healthy whole foods. Being able to recognize which ones bump my BG and how much including those consumed from the infrequent times I eat "off the grid" allows me to know myself better, to reset personal hunger threshold, and ultimately create a new personal fat threshold. I think it's a great approach, and I'll enjoy living vicariously through the good folks who are getting ready to start the next DDF session.

JLx Fri, Mar-05-21 11:09

I'm glad you mentioned FB as I wondered about that - if there was another option. I am a long time hold out as well, and will continue to be.

BawdyWench Fri, Mar-05-21 13:02

Anyone else trying to get into the video meeting? I click the "Go to Link" button like it says, and it takes me to a page to sign up for the challenge for $37. I've already done that. I put up a comment on this, but no response.

EDITED TO ADD: Apparently others are having trouble connecting, too. At least it will be recorded so I can watch it later.

EDITED YET AGAIN: Now they're saying there was no event at 2:00 today, even though I and a number of people saw it, clicked on it, and it said to follow the link. I even got a reminder about the event. I know it must be hard due to people all over the world reading these posts, but I wish they would be more clear about things.

JEY100 Sat, Mar-06-21 04:41

The three video "WalkThroughs" are posted under Media>Videos now.
Also posted the Slide Deck Alex was working from.

635 Members! The only thing that will save the Admins is that for many of us, it will not be our first rodeo. We can help but the posts are moving fast. Since a FB page was started in 2011 to share our local support group info, I complain bitterly that a moving timeline does not work. Drives me crazy. Same questions over and over.

Rowdy is a nice way to put it. Enjoy :wave:

BawdyWench Sat, Mar-06-21 05:36

I guess I was confused. There was a listing under Events that was scheduled for 2:00 pm ET and the summary said to click the link. There was even the designation that I was "going." I also got a reminder on it. Whatever. Alex ended up deleting that entry.

Moving timelines are hard to follow, which is why I plan to sit out more, read, and learn.

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-08-21 06:17

Can all questions be answered and personal guidance provided when the group has 635 members? It might be better to limit the participation to a much smaller number so that Marty, Alex, and the rest of the moderators could provide more personal attention to those who need it.

So far the Daily Lesson in the app and also Marty's daily posts have been excerpts from the Guides, which I've already read. Maybe the intent was to have the guides posted so that they're available, but for people to read them one day at a time when he posts them in the feed?

That said, I can feel my body changing. I had lost 5 pounds in my first 10 days of using the approach, which was the end of February. Then I had to fast totally for a couple days for a colonoscopy and lost another 2 pounds. Once I started eating (on plan) again, the 2 pounds came back. The surprising thing is that in just this past week I've slimmed down noticeably. Whereas my favorite jeans were snug at the end of February, I wore them yesterday and there were inches of extra fabric in the thighs and I no longer had a muffin top.

I'm actually enjoying not eating until noon or after, and then having smaller meals. Yesterday I went shopping with a friend and we stopped for lunch. I had a burger (probably no more than 4 oz) with a slice of cheese, no bun, and lightly dressed greens. Dinner was a small 3 oz piece of cubed steak topped with one fried egg. I was totally satisfied with that and not in the least bit hungry. That's huge!

JEY100 Mon, Mar-08-21 08:44

That's why there are Administrators and Moderators. Dr. Westman's group has almost 19,000 members, many not active, nowhere as wild as a one month challenge, but enough to have some "graduates" of the clinic help.
Marty and Alex remain very active...especially since they both have full time jobs, so their Admins add a lot of value.
The daily guides are posted to allow for more questions and discussion of each concept...just since July the FAQs have gone from 70 to 90 something. Some guides have been edited to make a concept clearer.
That is great news about your progress!! Those jeans never lie :wave:

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-08-21 08:50

Well, I suppose that's true about the admins, mods, and grads who help out.

I was being inundated by posts from the group in my own Facebook feed, so I unfollowed the group so I won't see the posts, but I'm still a member of the group. I'll check the group's Facebook face once a day for the daily posts. I think Marty said he posts around 2:00 ET daily?

I'm just glad I'm a bit of a self-starter, can read and absorb info on my own, and don't need much (if any) hand-holding.

Janet, thanks so much for being a voice of reason throughout this entire forum. I'm always astounded by all your quotations from experts that you always seem to have right at your fingertips. You must have crazy organizational skills! :lol:

JLx Mon, Mar-08-21 10:33

Janet, thanks so much for being a voice of reason throughout this entire forum. I'm always astounded by all your quotations from experts that you always seem to have right at your fingertips. You must have crazy organizational skills!

I second that.

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-08-21 12:24

Just a quick report to say that after the 3-day baselining, my personal BG trigger was set at 96. As of this morning, it's 88. I'm actually shocked it decreased so quickly.

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-09-21 05:42

After entering my waking BG this morning (102, higher than normal), now my trigger is 87.

Is the trigger based on pre-meal levels only? Those definitely are lower for me (average of 83). My waking level so far averages 94 (low of 81, high of 109 just once).

I'm trying to figure out why my waking number is sometimes above 100, like this morning. For lunch yesterday I had a 4 oz piece of cubed steak topped with one fried egg, and dinner was an 8 oz sirloin steak with one small bite of a potato skin with cheese/bacon with dinner. Maybe the higher reading this morning was because of the amount of protein.

JEY100 Tue, Mar-09-21 07:08

Aww, thanks. My OCD when it comes to research. :lol:

The trigger is based on the pre-meals "While itís not that hard to be Ďgoodí for a couple of days, you need to see how you go across the whole week. Your new trigger wonít be updated until you have consistently logged an average pre-meal blood sugar below your initial trigger (established in Phase 1 - Baselining) for four days. You wonít see an updated trigger value until Day 4 of Phase 2 - Hunger Training."

Donít worry that it is "too high" you can log pre-meals well below and then it will start dropping...maybe daily..but last Challenge there were more concerns about big drops too quickly in the app, and the formula was "slowed down" a bit.

I had a waking fasted BG over 100 two years into eating LC, so this is a topic I learned about from Dr Westman and Phinney (emailed in to calm me down.). :lol:

Not to worry!...likely what is now called "Adaptive Glucose Sparing" It use to be called Physiological Insulin Resistance, that is what Dr Westman and Phinney called it when I had a BG number just inside the pre-diabetes range after 2 years LC. The newer name is more accurate. You can read about it here:
It would have be helpful if your doctor also ran a fasting Insulin number, but so few do! How to use that also explained in above article.
Ps, article author, Anne Mullens was in an earlier DDF challenge.

Although I understand why I get these pre-diabetic numbers once in a while, it was one of the reasons I wanted to use DDF to get my waking numbers has worked. Now most are in the 90s, some 80s, but it has taken months, partially due to now having lower body fat. BMI at 24.3. On that Ted Naiman graphic of how insulin dam wall is getting lower :lol:

Short answer....Unlikely it was the meal you had the night before. It might if it had been a blow out carb fest, but with what you ate, your body just provided some glucose you needed to get out of bed and get moving.

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-09-21 07:12

Thanks, yet again, for the great info. I'll check it out.

It's so easy to not want to log a reading when it's a little high. Oops! I forgot to enter it this morning. I have to keep forcing myself to enter everything, even if I don't like the number ... because it's DATA. It's not good or bad, it's just DATA.

JEY100 Tue, Mar-09-21 07:17

:lol: Today's a good day to read the FB page. First day of Hunger Training everyone is confused. Many good questions and answers.

In fact, Bob Farrell, just opened a HOT ROOM...jump in and ask him a question.

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-09-21 08:10

Sorry, but I don't know where to find the Hot Room.

Is there a special place to go for Marty's daily posts?

JEY100 Tue, Mar-09-21 09:22

The Daily Posts are in also Guides, up in the header of Tabs. First seen in the Main page/Timeline

A Hot Room just pops up willy-nilly if there seem to be a lot of basic questions, and a moderator is there to help. There is a Rooms tab...that might have when the Room is "open"??

I just scroll through the posts to see what's happening.

The Room may be in Events too?

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-09-21 11:47

Aha. Yes, the daily posts have so far sounded suspiciously identical to the information presented in the guide, which in turn are suspiciously identical to the book. I do re-read them every day, because no one can remember everything after only one reading.

I checked out the Rooms tab, but didn't see anything there. Must have ended by the time I got there.

BG 81. Time to eat!

JEY100 Wed, Mar-10-21 05:34

I think you asked about the formula to determine the trigger. Marty posted a few hours ago the pros and cons of recording every premeal number taken. They are still refining it, but as it stands now:
The downside, though, is that recording more premeal BGs means it will take longer for Your Personalised Trigger to drop (because it's based on the average of ALL of the 'premeal' blood sugars you have logged over the past 7 days. However, this may not be a bad thing, as many people find that they struggle to meet their trigger after a few weeks.

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-10-21 06:52

I'm recording most of my pre-meal levels, though I sometimes forget to do the one right before dinner. That makes sense that my trigger would drop quickly since the only pre-meal reading I'm consistently logging is before lunch, which comes typically 18 hours after the last meal (dinner the night before).

thud123 Wed, Mar-10-21 09:02

Hi guys. I'm having a good time so far. I wasn't able to get to trigger for second meal yesterday. It shows in waking number (pretty low for me) from my past limited experience with DDF (solo) the later and more I ate the higher (around 100+-3) it will be the next morning regardless of WHAT I ate, more WHEN

Pre Meal Reading: So far I've been pretty lucky (2 meals) where my BG reading was near enough to my trigger that it said "OK to eat!"

I'm really going to try to make sure not to wait too long in the morning to eat, this might make it easier to have a meal later in the day if I get hungry. I was kind of hungry last night but BG was too high.

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-10-21 09:12

Originally Posted by thud123
I'm really going to try to make sure not to wait too long in the morning to eat, this might make it easier to have a meal later in the day if I get hungry. I was kind of hungry last night but BG was too high.

Kind of the same for me. My first meal is usually around 1:00 pm, and then I'm often not very hungry for dinner so I know my BG isn't down to the trigger yet. Eating the first meal a bit earlier might help with that.

I'm also tracking using the spreadsheet, even though it is not officially being used in this Challenge. Part of the Hunger Training worksheet has cells to enter the time you have your first meal and your last meal of the day, and then calculates your eating window. If I do a 20/4 fast/eat window, I'm rewarded by green shading; an 19/5 window shows as yellow; an 18/6 window shows as orange, and a 16/8 window shows as red. This is getting way ahead of things, though, since this is only Day 5 officially. I'll keep recording the times, but won't pay much attention to the results yet.

BawdyWench Thu, Mar-11-21 17:23

I find this frustrating and confusing.

My trigger is 87, which means my pre-meal readings have been as low as the upper 70s and some in the upper 90s. Prior to my lunch at 1:00 this afternoon, my BG was 83. I had a 6 oz burger patty (85% lean) with 1 slice of cheese and 1 Tbsp low-sugar catsup. Also had 1 cup 0% Greek yogurt (which alone usually makes my BG go down).

More than 5 hours later I took another reading and it was 104. Dinner was already in the oven so I ate. I just had 4 oz of pork tenderloin with a teaspoon of butter.

Why would it have risen so much after a lunch of pure protein, and then stay up there even after more than 5 hours?

JEY100 Fri, Mar-12-21 05:18

I think what was happening when I had high pre-dinner BG was the effect from food prep, hunger, etc. FAQ# 73, body anticipating food raises BG.
Since I didnít want to delay dinner, and I did want to eat with DH, I fixed that as my Main Meal. I have never been an evening snacker, so no problem to start the fast then.

BawdyWench Fri, Mar-12-21 05:30

The thing is, I wasn't really hungry for dinner. Also, the only meal prep was throwing a pork loin into the oven.

Dinner is my main meal, but I was following Kendall's advice to front load the protein earlier in the day. I think from now on I'll have a much lighter lunch so that I'll be hungrier (and hopefully with a lower bg) for dinner.

Janet, I think you said you lost 25 pounds over the two challenges since November. Was it linear, or did your progress constantly get interrupted by setpoints?

In my first 10 days I lost 5 pounds. Since then, nothing, and it was 3 weeks as of yesterday that I've been on the plan. I can't count the extra couple of pounds lost (and later regained) when I had to fast totally (and got a good internal cleanout!) prior to the colonoscopy.

I know. Be patient. Things are happening internally. I do feel different, leaner, and clothes are beginning to be looser. Inches beat pounds any day. Got it.

JEY100 Fri, Mar-12-21 07:10

:lol: Not that fast. I started DDF on August 5th, lost 13 pounds before the November Challenge, first one I officially joined. From the Challenge, which started week before Thanksgiving to the day after New Years, lost another 5 that a success to lose anything through the holidays! With the January 2nd DDF challenge, now NO Masterclass, Iíve lost another 8 pounds but am at a BMI of 24.3, which is fine with me to maintain for a while. :wave: Slow and steady, no large drops, and some weeks with no weight loss at all.

BawdyWench Sat, Mar-13-21 06:08

I was down almost 2 pounds this morning, so now I'm ecstatic!!! Funny how a little progress puts you in an all-new frame of mind.

JEY100 Sat, Mar-13-21 08:19

:lol: and maybe a new trigger too!

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