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mugget57 Sun, Nov-24-02 00:20

Incredible info....
The more I read the more I see the end in sight. It is like waking up to a beautiful day. Being heavy all my life and having an illness that I have to monitor seemed like I would be locked in an unhealthy weight forever. But, now, I feel like I am getting armed with some powerful tricks to help me succeed.

First thing I am going to do is keep that journal. It will be the only way I can measure My success. And, I've decided to go for a solid 12 weeks/ starting weight, etc, and mark my progress in charts. I am so excited about the possibilities. I'm hoping to share what I learn with some very dear friends to.

Thank you so much for the help!

sugarwars Wed, Apr-02-03 20:52

thyroid and a low carb diet. What's the connection?
I take synthroid and I've just started the atkins diet. do you know how the thyroid and burning of fat are related in the body chemistry?

incogne Thu, May-22-03 13:31

Quick question
How can I adjust your plan so my window of oppertunity for 36 hours of carb load , lands between sat and sunday. Also what about just intaking carbs immediately after an intense workout when your muscles are yearing for it and the rest of the day low carbs.

Big Dog Thu, May-22-03 16:23

incogne, you just need to adjust the timing of your depletion workout so that it happens just before you can begin the carb load

I carb load from first thing friday morning until saturday night. I do my workout early friday morning, then as soon as it is over i start my carb load. I finish up Saturday night and start back to low carb with breakfast on sunday morning.

as for the second part of your question - that is the simple definition of a Targetted Ketogenic Diet (TKD). I am not 100% sure but i think some folks take thier carbs pre workout, some post workout and some split them.

incogne Thu, May-22-03 19:32

Quick question
Big Dog , so your 36 hours starts ticking then immediatley after your Friday morning workout. I want that window to start for myself mid Saturday ending Sunday evening.So that would mean My intense workout can begin Monday evening and end mid-saturday .

As far as post-carb loading , I heard its a good method to get your carbs during this period , since your mucles are depleted of all its glycemic stores and most your carbs will be absorbed by them.

dirty-c Wed, Jul-09-03 12:50

How can beer fit in this diet? Are the carbs in beer high GI? What about alcohol? Will it hurt the ability of the insulin to usher in the glucose? I'm a college student who likes to drink w/ my friends on weekends. I know that when your under the influence, you body WILL use ketones since they are most easily converted into energy. During the HI carb phase, are we attempting to turn glucose back into our body's primary source of energy, or are we merely trying to get the glucose into our muscles (forming glycogen)?

joe_ Wed, Jul-16-03 02:47

im currently on the atkins diet for about a week but want to lose around 30-40 pounds, would it be wise to switch up to the ckg with 24 hour carb load instead? i just don't want to put on any extra weight, but in the same time i would like to put on muscle so when it all works out i come out pretty muscular but still lost the fat, the reason i came looking for this is because i finally did some weights since starting it, (previously only doing cardio) and mannn, it was the weakest workout i think i've ever had, i couldnt finish anything or hardly flex my muscles when i tried... im thinking i should try this but hopefully somebody will respond!!! :) thanks.

montecarlo Fri, Aug-08-03 07:56

Hello all I am new to this forum!
I am coming from the anabolex and elitefitness forums. I found the Mr X CKD program to be very usefull. Maybe a little complicated if your not math savy. Low carb diets takes planning and will power. Been on ckd several times and every time I get on it, I do better from the previous cycle. I normally go for 12-16 weeks, and then up the carbs slowly.

Mr.X CKD Manual

I would like to dedicate this to Bart, without him I would not be writing this nor would I be the person that I am today.

by: Mr.X

So, you want to start a CKD. Now, what the hell is a CKD you ask? Well, a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates. How do these two come together to actually make a diet, simply stated: they do, that’s it. But, to be serious. A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder’s (weightlifter’s) needs.

Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. (yada yada yada yada, well I don’t think anyone cares about the technical aspect, so I’ll get to the point)Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)

Mr.X, can you please just shut-up and give us some information on setting up a CKD.

YES, I can-------

Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)

First-off, let’s figure out your BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). Take your weight and multiply it by 12=daily calorie intake without a deficit.

(100lb person) Example: 100lb x 12cal= 1200cal…1200cal=BMR

Everything I put forth will revolve in one way or another around your BMR, so listen up.

6/1 ratio (6 days in ketosis/1 day carb-up)

Figure out your BMR...(basal-metabolic-rate)=caloires needed to maintain current weight

weight x 12=BMR....(EXAMPLE: 100lb x 12=1200 cal a day)

Use the following fat/protein ratios w/ BMR deficit:



1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%

2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%

3-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%

4-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR

5-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%

6-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%


Day-7-> (CARB-UP) BMR+30% ---I will go into detail on the

carb-up later in the article---

So, how do you calculate these percents and BMR. Well, let’s use a 200lb person as an example of this.


200lb. x 12cal=2400cal (BMR)

Ketosis: Days 1-6:

Day 1: 85%fat/15%protein-- BMR-5%

2400cal (BMR) x .05=120cal (is 5% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 120 cal (5%deficit)=2280cal for day 1

---fat ratios for day 1---

2280cal x .85 (that is 85% fat)=1938cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1938cal divided by 9cal/gram=215g fat for day 1

---now we need the protein ratios for day 1---

,p>2280cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=342 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

342cal divided by 4cal/gram=86 g protein for day 1

Totals for Day-1: 215g fat/86g protein

Now, you might ask, why is the protein so low? Because protein can keep you out of Ketosis and, remember, everyday you are in Ketosis, you are burning fat while preserving muscle because Ketones (hence the name Ketosis) are protein sparing. Protein can convert to glycogen at almost 58% efficiency, so you see why excess protein is a bad idea. Plus, strictly from a scientific standpoint, a person can maintain current muscle mass at merely a 15%protein ratio, while no muscle gain is possible, maintenance is a very feasible idea with these ratios.

Day 2: 75%fat/25%protein-- BMR-10%

2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 2

---fat ratios for day 2---

2160cal x .75 (that is 75% fat)=1620cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1620cal divided by 9cal/gram=180g fat for day 2

---now we need the protein ratios for day 2---

2160cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=324 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

324cal divided by 4cal/gram=81 g protein for day 2

Totals for Day-2: 180g fat/81g protein

Day 3: 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%

2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 3

---fat ratios for day 3---

2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 3

---now we need the protein ratios for day 3---

2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 3

Totals for Day-3: 147g fat/178g protein

Day 4: 70%fat/30%protein-- BMR

2400cal (BMR)

---fat ratios for day 4---

2400cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1680cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1680cal divided by 9cal/gram=186g fat for day 4

---now we need the protein ratios for day 4---

2400cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=720 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

720cal divided by 4cal/gram=180 g protein for day 4

Totals for Day-4: 186g fat/180g protein

Day 5: 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%

2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 5

---fat ratios for day 5---

2160cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1512cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1512cal divided by 9cal/gram=168g fat for day 5

---now we need the protein ratios for day 5---

2160cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=648 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

648cal divided by 4cal/gram=162 g protein for day 5

Totals for Day-5: 168g fat/162g protein

Day 6: (same as day 3) 65%fat/35%protein-- BMR-15%

2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 6

---fat ratios for day 6---

2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 6

---now we need the protein ratios for day 6---

2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 6

Totals for Day-6: 147g fat/178g protein

Essential-Fatty-Acids: flaxseed oil, sesames seed oil, sunflower seed oil, grape seed oil, olive oil, peanut oil

Now, I know, I know. You want to know how to do this the easy way. Because, what I’ve just shown beforehand is probably damn complicated. So, here is a simple rule-of-thumb way to break down your Ketosis ratios:

1)Set calories at: 12 cal/lb

2)Set protein intake: typically 0.9 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram

3)Set fat intake: take protein calories and subtract them from total calories, then divide by 9 to get grams of fat.

In practice, most people end up eating about 1 gram of fat for every gram of protein. Ketosis almost always establishes with 1/1 ratios. (fat/protein -grams-)


I’ve heard different ratios stated by different people on this subject, but as you know, opinions are like ass-holes everyone has one and it stinks. So, I will attempt to come up with a feasible ratios for you.

DAY 7: --carb-up— BMR+30%


2400cal (BMR) x .30= 720cal

2400cal + 720cal=3120cal



3120 x .70= 2185 cal from carbs

Carbohydrates have 4cal/g

2185cal divided by 4ca/g=546g carbs


3120 x .20=624cal from protein

Protein has 4cal/g

624cal divided by 4cal/g=156g protein


3120 x .10=312 cal from fat

Fat has 9cal/g

312 divided by 9=35g fat

Totals: 546g carbs/156g protein/35g fat

SAMPLE CARB-UP: (6meals) –based on 200lb person—

1-2: 150 g liquid glucose carb powders (ex..carbo max, dextrose..etc.) w/ 1 scoop protein

3-4: 75 g of liquid and solid glucose polymers...sugar cereals (frosted flakes,honey-nut-cheerios..etc) w/ fat-free milk w/ 1/4 cup walnuts

5-6: 50 g of complex carbs (low-GI)...oatmeal, brown-rice, beans, yams, sweet potato w/ 1/4 cup walnuts


Why is it that people say to avoid fructose? I've heard that quite a few times, and was curious why. How important is this? Fructose resupplies the liver with glycogen first, if the liver is full, then via the pentose phosphate pathway, all additional fructose goes to FAT.

I know that every reader wants a simple way to figure out a carb-up, so here it is:

1) Set total calories at: 16 cal/lb

2) Set protein intake: typically 0.2 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram

3) Set fat intake: usually 0.1g/lb. Fat has 9cal/gram

4) Set carb. intake: add protein and fat calories and subtract it from total calories, then divide by 4 to get grams of carbs.

In practice, most people end up eating about 2.7 grams of carbs for every lb of weight.

So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)


1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs

2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back

3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day


5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout

6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)

7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB-UP.

-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---

ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps

-You can increase the number of exercises for legs 1-3 with 12-10-8-6-12 reps---

Ok, now that I have given you way too much information to comprehend, I am going to load up a little more info about supplements and then we’re done.

Supplements you need for CKD:

FIBER –soluble or any other form

Multi Vitamins(MV)/ Multi Minerals(MM)



(PPA stack on EliteFitness is a very good buy…great quality too)


Take MV and MM two times a day (recommended dose), one in the morning and one in the afternoon (around 2-3pm)

Take each 1-3 pills AdipoKinetix with 25mg of ephedrine. 2-3 times a day.

Take Fiber supplementation 2 times a day…once in the morning, and once before bed


The only supplements that seem to reliably interrupt ketosis (that I've discovered at least) are vanadyl (seems to affect liver glycogen status) and citrimax (Hydroxycitric acid). Citric acid (found in diet sodas) kicks some people out of ketosis, but does not affect everybody. Aspartame also seems to affect some people but isn't consistent. The anti-oxidant n-acetyl-cysteine can give a false positive for ketosis, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

Basically, the only way to really negatively affect ketosis is by raising blood glucose, or affecting liver metabolism.

Oh yeah, and eating a bunch of carbs while in Ketosis will 100% kick you

senimoni Fri, Sep-05-03 23:01

Can someone tell me what a drop set is?

-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---

ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps


Natrushka Sat, Sep-06-03 07:23

A drop set is where you basically are doing one long set.

You start with a weight you can only lift for a few reps - 10 or 12. Once you've gone until you can't lift another rep you change the weight, or pick up another set of dumbells and you lift again until you can't lift anymore - this is usually quite a few reps lower than you just did. You continue this as many times as the set requires (a 3 drop set requires you dropping the weight 3 times, etc).


korry1977 Fri, Sep-19-03 18:45


I understand that you can do CKD in about 12 week periods... what do you after those 12 weeks are over? and when can you start a new cycle after the 12 weeks?


Trainerdan Fri, Oct-17-03 14:24

After 12 weeks, I usually ramp up carbs for 4 - 8 weeks and use those as an anabolic phase (heavy lifting, etc), and then go back to the CKD.

Janette360 Sun, Feb-22-04 13:22

Dan, question, I do low carb all week and have rigerous workouts for 4 days. I never go into ketosis! I check the strips and they never have a trace! I know that i don't need to lose a lot but i would like to know why i never go into it. Is it because i chew sugar free gum? let me know it's driving me crazy.

Trainerdan Sun, Feb-22-04 17:38

Ketostix measure excess ketones. You could be burning yours.

I know sugar free gum sometimes bumps people out, so you may want to tinker with that to check it.

When I used to always check sticks, I was never more than mild purple.

If the tape measure around your waist is going down, you are on the right track.


Janette360 Sun, Feb-22-04 21:08

thanks for the reply...that explans things!!! The only thing that sucks is that i have to cut out gum for a while. Don't I get to have an fun any more? lol

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