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Iceberg Tue, Oct-18-22 09:44

I've not really been following DDF for awhile now. I did start crossfit in mid Jul and have lost weight. I was regaining while trying to lose on DDF and since crossfit, I'm down 9.6 lbs so at a new low for me at 194.4. A week ago I started with a nutritionist who is also a crossfitter and was told I wasn't eating enough. So I've bumped up my protein and she insists on increasing carbs. I've gone from 20 or less in carbs to 65g at the moment. I'm losing a bit now, so maybe I was starving myself? Anyway, still believe in Marty and his plan...just taking a break for a bit and trying something new. I love the exercise and sleep so much better. later.......d

JEY100 Tue, Oct-18-22 11:24

That sound great..glad CrossFit is working for you. :thup: I can't see myself at 71 doing it but admire anyone who can!

Neither Marty or Ted Naiman are low carb the way most here would define it. I actually aim for 70g net carbs but often fall short of that…it hard after being VLC for so long to embrace the really carby foods. Black beans and potatoes are about as wild as I get.

I loosely followed what Dr Naiman has in the PE Diet book. Protein 145g for me at 5’9”. Both fat and carbs end up about 50-70g.

In addition to all those Insulin Resistance articles in post #447. Another new one explain in what Insulin does:

Insulin is NOT Making You Fat (and Here’s Why)

Iceberg Sat, Nov-05-22 09:04

[QUOTE=JEY100]That sound great..glad CrossFit is working for you. :thup: I can't see myself at 71 doing it but admire anyone who can!

I'm 68 and been a computer nerd couch potato most of my adult life. I knew I had to do something as I could barely make it up the stairs. One gym here was offering a "Reborn" class, for those that are challenged, very sedentary, etc...and that's where I began, 3 times a week. Three weeks ago i began attending a normal class and found I could hold my own. They still modify my exercise as compared to the young folks but I'm now RUNNING! Me, running...never thought I'd get this far. So now I'm working out Mon thru Fri with an occasional Saturday morning.

The macros prescribed to me were 135g protein, 125g carbs and 48g fat. I end up over 100g protein, 40g or so of carbs and well under the 48g of fat. I'm losing consistently now where I wasn't before.

I have Dr Naiman's book and may revisit that if time permits today. Maybe I've been doing DDF all wrong?

My A1C before the gym was 4.7, so BG has not seemed to be an issue for me. I'm do for my annual soon, I think. Wonder what it will be now?

Thanks for your comments. I always find them helpful.

JEY100 Sat, Nov-26-22 05:38

The PE diet is half off, Optimising Nutrition has a sale on all three programs…forever…LifeTime membership. This is what I bought two years ago to make maintaining my weight loss easy.

Our Black Friday Sale gets you unlimited access to our Data-Driven Fasting Challenge, Macros Masterclass and Micros Masterclass.
You can round out the year with our Micros Masterclass (which starts Saturday).
Join now at:

Elihnig Thu, Dec-01-22 12:49

Hi, I've signed up for the January 7 class and I've been playing with the app and testing blood sugar. It's kind of fun to gameify the numbers and see how I react to foods and the timing of eating. I've been posting all the boring numbers in my journal. :)


JEY100 Thu, Dec-01-22 13:27

Great idea, I played around with the old DDF Spreadsheet for a few months before really committed to the plans. Many of the members of DDF come from a failed keto/VLC approach so many of us have frustratingly high Waking BG, but now we know why. My waking is usually 100-110, then just to throw me off course, this morning was 93 :q:! Everyone is trying to improve their own does not matter if you start as a T2 diabetic near 200 or an elite athletes in the 70s. That Protein First technique really does work.

You may have already done this, but join the Free Optimizing Nutrition Community. That's where all the courses are run, and it takes a while to get use to a set-up that is not Facebook (or at least it took ME a while!) to find my way through the groups. It is an interesting community of people! I am a host/moderator in all three programs and happy to help you.
PS: I go by my FB name there too, Julia Young

Elihnig Thu, Dec-01-22 13:43

I am there. I just posted that I was from Maine in the Where in the World do you call home thread.



JEY100 Thu, Dec-01-22 14:10

Great, I see it…know who you are now.

To others who want to learn more about the Data Driven Challenge. Tons to read about blood glucose, eating to satiety, insulin, all in the links:

Anyone can try the APP for free now, many improvements since starting as an excel spreadsheet .

JEY100 Wed, Dec-28-22 13:26

Part of a New Year email from Marty Kendall about Saiety:

Our analysis of one hundred and forty thousand days of data from forty thousand Optimiser shows that our appetite settles down when we give our bodies the protein and nutrients it needs from our food.

It sort of makes sense when you think about it that way, but satiety is not word you hear every day. So we prepared this guide Satiety: How to Lose Weight with Less Hunger to unpack the basics and clarify some of the points of confusion around the topic.

JEY100 Fri, Jan-13-23 04:25

The Big Fat Keto Lies book has been just been added to the Kindle store. The price is only $2.99 the lowest allowed by whatever service he used.
The Kindle reformatting pushed it from 300 to 400 pages, but the charts and graphs have been updated, and now easier to read for my old eyes. You can still get the book with some memberships from the community, but if someone wants just the book, such a deal!

If anyone here has used the information in the book, I’m sure Marty would appreciate customer reviews. They can be a sentence or two with a star rating that will improve the starting level. I bought a new copy so my review will show as a verified purchaser, but including that read earlier edition is fine.

WereBear Fri, Jan-13-23 08:51

Thanks! I discovered it is free on Kindle Unlimited, too. Which is how I'm reading it. At the rate I read, it's a fine budget management tool :) And I will leave a review, because that is important for all authors.

Also wanted to thank JEY for her work with the program and getting the word out. While I haven't done the program, it helped me immensely in tweaking my customized Wahls Protocol along the lines Marty explains. Upping my protein worked great for me in my ongoing recovery program.

Which is why I'll put in a little pitch for joining any service which gives you so many chances to try out their ideas and different ways of committing to the plan. If, like JEY, I had gotten dramatic results from knowing the program so well, I would consider such support to be highly valuable.

Especially since such help can make things easier, and lower stress.

JEY100 Sat, Jan-14-23 05:47

Aww, WearBear thank you so much! Upping the protein is magic for many different eating plans.
And for women who have gained weight approaching menopause!

Marty has recipes and articles for about 30 diet goals, Including Immunity, with a free abridged recipe book. And a brand new AutoImmune Paleo intro and recipes book. In ON community, Recipe Book section, last on list.

All 30 recipe books now show 3 free samples, so you can see the nutrition in 90 recipes if somewhat diet agnostic.
For generic good nutrition, There are the Nutrient Dense Meals,

All of the DDF course (over 200 pages) is free on the community.

As WearBear noted and uses the tips, you can join the community for free, https://members.optimisingnutrition...m_source=manual
(Robb Wolf and Gin Stephens, author of #1 Kindle, Fast, Feast Repeat, charge $30 month)

Thanks for great tip about Kindle Unlimited! I have used it a few times on free trial, but then drop it. If you do that all the books and highlights or notes you took disappear. Why I needed to spring for this one. It is #17 in Weight Loss Diets this morning… Amazon rankings are a mystery. :q: :q:
It didn’t even have the editorial and customer reviews a few days ago, but the title is eye-catching.

mojolissa Tue, Jan-31-23 12:50

Hello there. I've been using the old spreadsheet. Not sure if I'm ready to commit to the apps. So confusing. I love to see that green color appear, so satisfying! But does anyone know, what do all these other colors mean?!

I've got White, Red, Pink (different shades of pink), light blue, dark blue......

JEY100 Tue, Jan-31-23 13:36

If you are only interested in DDF, and not tracking your food on Cronometer, it’s one simple app that functions like the spreadsheet you have now. It’s free plus it gives you access to the community on Mighty Networks.

Was this some type of memory test for me?? LOL. I only saved one blank copy of the DDF spreadsheet on Numbers, so I don’t even have a sample to look at. I’ve also cleaned out the many previous additions of the .pdf of manual and only have the latest one….

But as I remember they were the colors of Traffic signals. The green (or blue in your case). meant good in various levels/shades of green as it got better. The red you’re headed in the wrong way, pink not as bad, yellow was caution or neutral. The latest number entered is compared against your baseline number, (or average) which was in a row along the top before the first date entries.

Sorry best I can remember now…maybe look back to around the beginning of 2021 in this thread…possibly this question was answered before the spreadsheet was abandoned?

mojolissa Tue, Jan-31-23 13:48

:lol: I know I'm so behind the times! Old school works best for me. My hubby says "technologically challenged"

JEY100 Fri, Feb-03-23 04:44

Mojolissa…this is not for you Requires 2 apps! :lol:

But if anyone wants to track their food on Cronometer for one month, learn the Macros of what they are currently eating, and how to change them to meet your own goals, be that weight loss or therapeutic keto, the Macro Masterclass is great.

This class is easy….only looking at 3 Macros. The Micronutrients are separate class now, much better in this shorter class than when they were together…that was overwhelming :wave:

One Week to go until we kick off the Macros Masterclass.

We've now analysed more than 1000 recipes to make it super simple for Optimisers dial in their protein, fat and carbs to reach their goals.

I can't wait to see what happens this round!

cotonpal Fri, Feb-03-23 08:50

Originally Posted by JEY100
Mojolissa…this is not for you :lol:

This class is easy….only looking at 3 Macros. The Micronutrients are separate class now, much better in this shorter class than when they were together…that was overwhelming :wave:

Starts Feb 11:

On the other hand, I really like the two classes combined and was not overwhelmed. That's probably because I came into it knowing how to use Cronometer and knowing a lot about macros and micros since I had been focused on eating optimal nutrients for a long time. I was so glad when Marty finally offered a class on the subject. Until he came along no on else seemed much interest in the nutrient quality of what people ate. The focus always seemed to be almost exclusively weight loss and sometimes blood sugar (eg Dr Bernstein) Marty really married the issues that seemed most important to me, weight loss, blood sugar regulation and nutrient quality. I highly recommend his courses.

JEY100 Fri, Feb-03-23 09:10

You're right. I was new to Cronometer, and it took me 6 weeks just to "get" my nutrients based on a 2,000 cal/day basis, filling the "buckets" and then moving on to the next nutrients. I don’t love simple food macro tracking, so 6 weeks was an eternity for me to do both. :lol: much better now…repetition has helped. I also highly recommend all the classes and doing them in order works well now.

EDIT, Correction. Both Cronometer and Nutrient Optimiser have Web versions. You can do the Classes using a desktop.

JEY100 Sun, Feb-05-23 03:44

Marty Kendall has been writing multiple articles about basic misunderstandings of the role of insulin. New today, "Does Protein Spike Insulin?, and Does it Even Matter?”

The insulin secreted across the day is proportional to your BMI. So, while lowering carbohydrates will help to reduce the insulin your pancreas needs to produce, the most effective way to lower insulin is to do what it takes to lower your body fat to healthy levels. This includes prioritising (not avoiding) protein to increase satiety.
Insulin and Body Mass Index Graph in

For me, getting below a BMI of 26-28, and well under 25, made a noticeable difference. Using 1g Protein per pound ideal body weight was about 40%+ Protein. The Protein and Satiety graph visually shows how more protein leads to more Satiety, Eating fewer Calories and Losing Weight without Hunger.

Insulin is NOT making you fat.

What does Insulin Do in Your Body

JEY100 Mon, Feb-06-23 03:57

For 2023, and the MacroNutrient class that’s starts on Saturday, Marty Kendall is updating or adding new articles on Macros and Protein. There has been loads of controversy on Satiety, Protein Percent on Twitter too.
New articles on blog today:

Marty gets out his data to reply:

Calculating Your Target Macros: A Data-Driven Approach

GRB5111 Mon, Feb-06-23 08:45

This is good information, Janet, and Marty seems to respond to any confusion or controversies at just the right time. While I've read this information, it's important for people to understand that protein is really the primary dietary fulcrum in that quantity of protein consumed has everything to do with satiety, ability to lose or gain weight, and ultimately metabolic and physical health. Between Naiman and Kendall combined with some timely research by others, it's clear about the role protein plays. Combining this knowledge with the understanding of protein types and the bio-availability of various protein sources, one can successfully achieve improved weight and overall health. That's why I call protein the fulcrum macro.

JEY100 Wed, Feb-15-23 14:59

The Optimal Blood Sugar for Weight Loss and Fat Burning
The Optimal Blood Sugar for Weight Loss and Fat Burning

Q: What is the Optimal Blood Sugar Level for Weight Loss and Fat Burning?
A: Just a little lower than normal for YOU.

When your glucose gets below what’s normal for you, you’ll be tapping into your stored energy, including your unwanted body fat.
In this article, we’ll show you how to use your glucose to guide when and what to eat to ensure consistent weight loss.

Excellent new update to this DDF and BG article:

What Makes Data Driven Fasting Different?

1.1 How DDF is Different from Other Fasting Methods?
1.2 How DDF is Different from Calorie Counting
1.3 Are There Any Additional Benefits from Extended Fasting?
1.4 Chasing Your Trigger vs a “Fasting Window”?
1.5 What Is An ‘Extended Fast’? How Long is Too Long?
1.6 How Is Data-Driven Fasting Different from The Fast-Mimicking Diet?
1.7 Would Waiting a Little Longer Be Better?
1.8 Extended Fasting Could Harm Your Healthy Appetite Signals
1.9 Will I Be Getting Enough Autophagy with Data-Driven Fasting?
1.10 Is Calorie Counting The Best Way to Lose Weight?
1.11 Counting Calories Can Cause Disordered Eating

You can grab the Free DDF Book (over 200 pages) and jump into DDF 101 course at

Or the next DDF Challenge starts in 10 days, Feb 25th. Before the Macros class is completed but the DDF courses are popular, and there will be 7 courses this year, some overlapping.

Many of the good book reviews for Big Fat Keto Lies are written by people who have enjoyed tremendous success with DDF.
Only $2.99 as a Kindle e-book! Free with Kindle Unlimited.

Still on the blog and included in some packages, but Kindle allows for annotations, sharing, etc.

Keto Lie #7: Fasting for Longer is Better

JEY100 Sat, Feb-25-23 09:28

It's all about Satiety this weekend!

The Low-carb Denver conference started yesterday.
Theme is "Where is Nutrition Headed?"

Yesterday, Dr. Eenfeldt explained how satiety per calorie will work with their LC/Keto/Higher Protein plans [Heard my story was flashed on the big screen as a high protein success :lol:]

Marty posted the new, updated Mother of All Satiety Indexes on his blog.
He will be speaking Sunday.

The Food Satiety Index Score (Updated 2023)

Satiety in nutrition is simply the absense of hunger. A satiating food or meal leaves you satisfied for longer.

To lose weight and improve your metabolic health without unbearable hunger, you need to increase the satiety per calorie value of your food....To cut to the chase, our satiety analysis demonstrates that we achieve greater long-term satiety when we obtain more of the essential nutrients we need from our food.

While all the essential nutrients are important, protein, fibre, calcium, potassium and sodium all have a statistically significant relationship with eating less. Foods and meals that contain more of these nutrients per calorie will satisfy your appetite and empower you to achieve long-term satiety with less energy.

And One Nutrient Density and Satiety Chart to Rule Them All

For the past six years, we’ve been on a mission to make nutrient density and satiety as simple as possible to empower Optimisers to identify foods and meals that align with their context, preferences and goals.

To bring it all together, we’ve combined our three most powerful nutritional scoring systems into one chart, showing:

nutrient density (per calorie),
nutrient density (per serving),
and our Satiety Index Score!

Nancy LC Sat, Feb-25-23 22:27

I just started a round of DDF. It is difficult not to snack before bedtime!

JEY100 Sun, Feb-26-23 03:06

If you joined yesterday's Challenge, you have at least three days to eat whenever you want…enjoy it! [I found you on course members now]

During baseline, when you feel hungry for a snack or even have a beverage with calories, take your BG before. If you want to check your reaction to that snack food, take BG after. Get as many pre-meal/snack BG as you want, point now is getting in touch with your hunger signals (many extended fasters have lost that).

How to Stop Late Night Snacking is not until Day 11 :wave:

WereBear Sun, Feb-26-23 05:24

Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I just started a round of DDF. It is difficult not to snack before bedtime!

Good luck! Getting my satiety signals lets me stop eating hours before bedtime. May it become effortless!

JEY100 Wed, Mar-29-23 04:15

This fascinating article explains Satiety data from another somewhat less complex statistical method than the Multi Variate Analysis, the Principal Component Analysis.

The Key Ingredients to Feel Full and Fueled: The Principal Components of Satiety and Nutrition


The Principal Component Analysis elucidates the Multivariate Analysis and enables us to move beyond the macronutrients to identify the nutrients that align with greater satiety. It also helps us understand how various nutrients are clustered and why some are dominant while others are not statistically significant in the multivariate analysis (shown below).

nutrient low high %

protein (%) 19% 44% -31%

(g/2000 cal) 11 44 -4.9%

(mg/2000 cal) 1931 5915 -3.7%

(mg/2000 cal) 1480 5076 -2.5%

(mg/2000 cal) 469 1869 -2.3%

(mcg/2000 cal) 167 956 -1.4%

At the highest level, protein % (or protein leverage) has the biggest influence on satiety and how much we eat. Protein and sodium tend to be clustered and can be easier to obtain from meat and seafood.

However, if we want to dig a little deeper, we see fibre also plays a role along with other key nutrients like potassium, sodium, calcium and folate. This cluster of nutrients tends to be easier to get from plant-based foods that complement the nutrient profile of meat and seafood.

The Principal Component Analysis also highlights that it’s not single nutrients but clusters of nutrients that are more prevalent in different foods. Hence, supplements to mimic a high-satiety nutrient profile are unlikely to help increase satiety.

We can then use this understanding to estimate how much of a particular food or meal we might eat and assign a satiety score based on its nutritional profile.

Moving beyond the the most components of Satiety, Protein and Fiber, there is a good explanation of why Potassium ( from green vegetables, not supplements!) also contributes to Satiety, that controls Hunger, so you can eat less.

I have mentioned before that Marty Kendall has created a platform for an interesting, very international, community including members with decades long obesity and Diabetes to medical doctors and to an "evolutionary biologist at the Max Planck Institute and an active member of our Optimising Nutrition Community, who ran this PCAnalysis”

So net down, prioritize protein, and eat it with greens vegetables!

JEY100 Wed, Mar-29-23 06:08

If a Principal Component Analysis is not your jam, most people start with a DDF Challenge. No need to track food if you do not want to. You could use one of the simple memes from Dr Ted Naiman, this one or earlier ones in that thread.

The next challenge starts April 8th.

Nancy LC Wed, Mar-29-23 20:32

I'm going to start a new round on 4/4. I think the last round was a washout due to lack of practice. Hopefully this time I can do better.

JEY100 Thu, Mar-30-23 04:34

Great that you are joining again, Nancy. I pick up something every time! One tip is to participate in the course discussions, re-read the Daily Lessons, and even though not required, consider food choices…prioritize protein in first meal, etc. that you know, but sometimes it takes seeing what another member is eating that helps it click.

Awesome results from the February class ranked by lower waking and pre-meal BG, fat and weight loss, summary: Data-Driven Fasting Challenge – February 2023 Results March 30, 2023 by Marty Kendall

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