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-   -   Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484792)

JEY100 Mon, May-16-22 03:25

I eat more than those minimums. The only pound:kilo conversion I reliably keep in my head is my own weight. :lol:
Ted Naiman's 1 gram protein per pound of ideal body weight is much simpler.

He has been saying 30% protein would cure world obesity and diabetes before this paper. A good beginner interview to the PE diet. The #1 Solution to the World's obesity problem https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...i=1000529446358

Her interview with Marty Kendall also good: How to Optimize Your Nutrients, Fasting and Health Results
https://bettlucas.com/2021/02/08/fa...loss-nutrients/

JLx Mon, May-16-22 05:26

The averages we eat now, per DietDoctor (link as above):

Quote:
American men average 88 grams of protein per day, and women average 66 grams, which equates to only 14 to 16% of total calories. Of those protein calories, approximately 30% come from plant sources.

The main take-home message is that most people are likely not eating enough protein for weight loss, metabolic health, and improving lean muscle mass.


The take-home message for most people who hear "eat your ideal weight in protein grams" will mean eating twice as much protein as they're used to, or more. I brought this info to my in-person weight loss group and the reaction was horror. :eek:

GRB5111 Mon, May-16-22 13:26

I'm not surprised at that type of reaction. Animal protein is the most nutrient dense and satiating macro. It takes a bit of planning and use of multiple sources to optimize how much one really is able to consume. I can understand the shock given the mixed messages we typically see regarding nutrition.

JEY100 Tue, May-17-22 04:16

Agree with Rob. My first and only "real meal" yesterday was shrimp and veg stir-fry. Too lazy to use the scale, I used half a 16 oz package of shrimp, 57g protein and 5g fat. :o I've contributed to this same question in another membership group, the reaction to saying that I don’t eat bacon Is priceless. Apparently bacon is required :lol:

I "worked up" to those amounts using Marty's macronutrient course over months. And when I don’t reach the protein gram goal, I look at the Protein Percent for the meal or day. Shrimp or fish with veg or salad is a slam dunk for high protein percent. No way I could eat that much protein in a fattier food.

kdc01 Tue, May-17-22 13:19

Jey100 -

I have been eating lots of shrimp for years and never knew it had that much protein. I love the fact that where we live you can buy fresh shrimp which is tastier than frozen.

WereBear Wed, May-18-22 07:26

Quote:
If you are very physically active, over 50 years old, or most of your protein comes from plant sources, we recommend aiming for the higher end of the protein range (above 1.6 grams per kilo per day). This means adding another 20 to 30 grams of protein to the targets above.


This Diet Doctor advice really struck me. They know plant protein is lower quality. I'm confident that site is backing up their advice with good studies, and this matches my own experience.

In fact, influenced by this thread (and my discovery I can make hot chocolate smoothies) I have been systematically upping my daily protein. Getting 50 grams of protein first thing in the morning is part of a cortisol resistance protocol I have returned to, with good results.

It just makes me all the angrier at all the plant-based everything that is appearing in the grocery store. I only get along with whey protein and that's harder to find that I would ever have thought.

JEY100 Sun, May-22-22 05:19

Check out these results from the April 2022 DDF Challenge!!

https://optimisingnutrition.com/dat...l-2022-results/

Some new, some long timers, and the overall results from the entire class!

I feel like I cheated since I did not even participate in this challenge but that IS the ultimate goal.
I have "trained my hunger", know the general TRE window that works for me, have my "optimal 30/30 meals" and can cruise along around my goal weight. The goal for the first five months of 2022 was only to maintain, and restart June 1 when I add in 1-2 hours of aqua cardio and strength….we'll see how that goes :lol:

thud123 Sun, May-22-22 06:31

All so good!!

dan_rose Sun, May-22-22 11:12

Quote:
Minimum daily protein target:
Height Women Men
Under 5’4″ ( < 163 cm) 90 grams 105 grams
5’4″ to 5’7″ (163 to 170 cm) 100 grams 110 grams
5’8″ to 5’10” (171 to 178 cm) 110 grams 120 grams
5’11” to 6’2″ (179 to 188 cm) 120 grams 130 grams
Over 6’2″ (188 cm +) 130 grams 140 grams


I'm not knocking it but to me, these numbers seem high and difficult to reach. Do hunter-gatherer diets get anywhere near?

JEY100 Sun, May-22-22 11:46

Hi Dan,
Most people have that reaction at first, know I did. ;) But then it worked so well for weight loss, in addition to lowering my blood glucose, that I was willing to try it. I "worked up" to my ideal amount of protein; first with Marty Kendall's Macronutrient Masterclass, focused more on upping the Protein Percent of the diet.

Addendum to those ranges:

Quote:
As the chart indicates, you should try to get around 100 grams if you’re a woman and 120 grams if you’re a man of average height and build. Eat more if you’re a man taller than 6 feet (183 cm) or a woman taller than 5’6″ (168 cm) or if you’re very physically active. Eat less if you’re shorter or have a very small frame.

If you are very physically active, over 50 years old, or most of your protein comes from plant sources, we recommend aiming for the higher end of the protein range (above 1.6 grams per kilo per day). This means adding another 20 to 30 grams of protein to the targets above.

If you are physically active, want to achieve very low body fat (less than 10% for men or 20% for women), or regularly practice intermittent fasting, you may want to add even more protein. (My emphasis)


I am tall, 5’9”, have a large frame, and am Way Over 50 years old. I daily IF, and am moderately active (for my age) so 145 gram seems good target for me.

People eating a higher percentage of protein eat up to 60% fewer calories (without hunger). Good article explaining this with the data based on free-living challenge members.

Protein for Weight Loss: How Much You Need and Why it Works

https://optimisingnutrition.com/how...-your-appetite/

If you are not interested in weight loss, but would rather bulk up or gain weight, there are recommendations for that both in the PE Diet book and Optimising Nutrition, with good recipes for bulking (or so I’m told :) )


There are many good podcast interviews with Dr Ted Naiman in the thread about the PE diet. A new one downloaded today from Boundless Body Radio. He spent some time answering the question how a person eating the more common 60 grams of protein increases it. (Slowly, small changes, what food works easily, like the fermented low fat dairy)

thud123 Mon, May-23-22 09:51

Quote:
People eating a higher percentage of protein eat up to 60% fewer calories (without hunger). Good article explaining this with the data based on free-living challenge members.


This is really working for me. I'm male, over 50 and currently 105kg - For Q2 I've been shooting for daily protein >125g and <200g per day and shooting for a Protein:Energy ratio >1 - On average (I didn't bring the calculator out for this) i'm ingesting about 1300-1600 kcal per day according to Cronometer and not that hungry. Some days I go wild with hedonistic eating (usually sugar or starch involved) about 4 days last 8 weeks - if you're interested you can track back my numbers here in this thread (yesterday happened to be one of those hedonistic days):

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthr...491#post9428491

Beebsbert Thu, Jun-02-22 10:27

Checking in to say that I hit the 140s today thanks to Marty Kendall's group and you all. 149.8. This is an 8th or 9th grade weight for me (I'm 44 now). I'm loving it.

I know I don't post a lot but I was a member of Low Carb Friends starting in about 2007 and then just kind of a sporadic poster here after that shut down. I lost a big chunk of weight 2008-2010 and kept that mostly off but stalled at about a 28-29 BMI. It's a long, boring story so I won't try to type it all.

But anyways, more importantly, I cannot wait to see what this new Marty and Ted method will bring long term.

JEY100 Thu, Jun-02-22 10:46

Wow, that's great. Appears you are even under your original goal. I never thought I could reach 150 at age 70, but it happened. And I have maintained it! At the link in post #427 you'll see I didn’t even participate, but tips like high protein first meal, or what my own "hunger" really feels like, are running in the background.

thud123 Fri, Jun-03-22 11:09

here's to long term sucess Beebsbert!! Stoked for you!

GRB5111 Sat, Jun-04-22 10:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beebsbert
But anyways, more importantly, I cannot wait to see what this new Marty and Ted method will bring long term.

Love this statement, as it indicates you are on the path of knowing. Nothing better than that.

JEY100 Fri, Jun-17-22 02:30

Marty Kendall wrote a new article based on all the newer DDF user data on how to maintain the concepts of DDF long-term. As a transition from testing before every meal, to using reminder alarms, to finding the eating window that works for you.

Quote:
I hope this little clock-based ‘hack’ helps you lock in sustainable long-term habits. While it may seem a little regimented, a few little external nudges and guides can help us form new habits and routines to prioritise our health and maintain long-term success when life happens.


Data-Driven Fasting by the Clock for Long-Term Success

https://optimisingnutrition.com/dat...ess/#more-31927

JEY100 Fri, Jul-01-22 03:12

A surprise Independence Day Sale on well, everything ;) , that Nutrient Optimiser offers. Apps, challenges, for Glucose driven eating, macros and Micro optimization, forever. Lifetime access. $147 for everything… Another incredible deal! Until July 5th.

Details: https://app.optimisingnutrition.com/lifetimer. If you recently signed up for another yearly access package, contact member services if would rather this one.


Marty Kendall wrote a good review of The Glucose Goddess a while back. Our library ordered it (not at my request) but I can see how her perky style has appealed to so many on Instagram. I'm not that far into the book, but here's the review:

https://optimisingnutrition.com/rev...lucose-goddess/

The third part on How to Flatten your Glucose Curve has ten "hacks" is the crux of her advice.

BawdyWench Thu, Aug-04-22 07:19

Is this where we should be posting for Marty Kendall's Macronutrient Masterclass? Or is this thread limited to his Data-Driven Fasting?

JEY100 Fri, Aug-12-22 05:54

You can post about any of Marty Kendall"s programs here, they might all be labeled "semi-low carb" but I spend most of my time on Mighty Networks and a few of his Facebook groups.

Visiting today to share his offer to a free two week trial of the DDF App, and the amazing 2 week results from a new member.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/tom...ial-experience/

BawdyWench Mon, Aug-15-22 07:30

Thanks! I've decided to drop it for now. Too many things going on right now that can't be helped. I jumped in too soon, before I was really ready. Maybe I'll catch it next time.

JEY100 Mon, Aug-15-22 11:18

Update about the Free Trial above...

Quote:
Visiting today to share his offer to a free two week trial of the DDF App, and the amazing 2 week results from a new member.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/tom...ial-experience/


After taking feedback from all the new trial DDF users, they have decided that the basic DDF app will remain "absolutely free"..continue to use to determine your real hunger signals, learn about BG, etc.

JEY100 Tue, Aug-23-22 09:42

Diet Doctor Podcast #104:
The secret of nutrient density with Marty Kendall


https://www.dietdoctor.com/video/po...h-marty-kendall

Focusing on nutrient density may be the key to better eating. Marty Kendall shares his data and his approach to optimizing nutrition through nutrient density.

Marty Kendall is trying to help us all optimize our nutrition. He brings his engineering experience and insights to help us rethink how to choose what we eat — and for Marty, the key is nutrient density.

Marty has found through his website optimizingnutrition.com that people can achieve their weight loss and health goals by focusing on getting the most nutrients with the fewest calories. That frequently means eating higher protein diets along with low-energy-density foods.

But what exactly does that mean? The principles may sound simple, but putting them into practice requires a deeper knowledge. Marty and I discuss the key details you need to know to help you decide if this is the right approach for you,

We also discuss how Marty uses blood sugar readings and CGMs to determine the optimal timing for eating. And what about keto diets? Don’t they provide satiety and blood sugar control? Yes, says Marty, but again, the key is identifying the details of the diet that provide benefit.

00:00 Introduction
03:03 The concept of nutrient density
09:48 The balance between nutrient and energy density
16:33 An ideal amount for protein intake
21:06 Defining high satiety foods
26:29 Using CGM to dictate when to eat
34:36 Differentiating palatability and satiety
39:19 Biggest hurdles for people following a higher protein diet
43:41 The best eating window for satiety eating
50:08 Gearing your food intake based on CGM

JEY100 Thu, Aug-25-22 04:56

CORRECTION to previous post!

The podcast sounded fine to me, but there was a sound balance problem with the YT video. So all the links were taken down..here is the new YT link to the DietDoctor interview with Marty Kendall:

https://youtu.be/AmDu6Sep-m8

And the post on DietDoctor website, under News and Media, now reposted. Sound balance corrected. It a very insightful interview WHY increasing Nutrient Density also increases Satiety, and you lose weight even if stalled on keto/ low carb as I had been. Also covers Glucose-Guided Eating, aka DDF.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/video/po...h-marty-kendall


My Two years Optimising Nutrition experience, after being stalled a decade on Low Carb. Updates on weight maintenance and food lists in the comments.

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484995

DietDoctor Success story: https://www.dietdoctor.com/succeede...-higher-satiety

cotonpal Thu, Aug-25-22 07:28

I have been eating low carb for about 2 decades now. For most of those years I was puzzled by the lack of attention being paid to the nutrient value of the diet. When Marty Kendall entered the scene I was an earlier adopter, long before the nutrient masterclasses or the DDF challenge. I had him analyze my diet when he was just developing his algorithm. I took one of his first nutrient masterclasses when it combined both macro and micro before he offered the DDF challenge. It took me longer to get on board with the DDF method of hunger training but I am on board with DDF now too. I feel very fortunate that I have found a way to eat that optimizes my health and Marty Kendall is a big part of that as are many other low carb folks who came before him. I have lost weight and so much more.

WereBear Fri, Aug-26-22 04:32

Every time I would make a big adjustment to my eating plan I would track for a few months, to get to know my boundaries. I would always have stellar nutritional intake numbers per the RDA.

I give full credit to Marty's emphasis on protein for helping me realize if I'm hungry, it's because the body wants protein. And that's what I give it :)

JEY100 Sat, Sep-03-22 07:08

In preparation for the next Micronutrient Masterclass, Marty has loaded the ON blog with articles about both the Macros and Vitamins and Minerals that contribute to Satiety. These four articles have the information about nutrient density that Jean used, and the levels that help control weight.

Optimal Nutrient Intakes (ONIs) for Satiety and Health

https://optimisingnutrition.com/opt...ake/#more-15276

Quote:
TLDR:
The table below shows the approximate percentages of total calories for protein, fat, and net carbs that aligns with the lowest calorie intake based on our data. [based on hundreds of thousands days of ON member data]

Macro %
Protein > 40%
Fat 30 – 40%
Non-Fibre Carbs 10 – 20%




Best Vitamins for Weight Loss and Satiety (and How Much You Need of Each).

https://optimisingnutrition.com/vit...or-weight-loss/

The Effect of Minerals on Appetite, Hunger and Satiety

https://optimisingnutrition.com/min...er-and-satiety/

What Factors Influence Satiety? How Carbohydrates, Fat, Fibre, Alcohol, Sugar and Caffeine Affect Your Appetite

https://optimisingnutrition.com/wha...luence-satiety/

Quote:
Previously, we’ve shown that protein % has the most significant positive impact on satiety. That is, we tend to eat less when we reduce energy from fat and carbs and increase the percentage of our calories from protein. In this article, we’ll look at the relative satiety and nutrient density impact of: carbohydrates, fat, fibre, alcohol, sugar, and starch.

JEY100 Sun, Sep-04-22 06:31

and…. What is Insulin Resistance and How to Reverse It:

https://optimisingnutrition.com/wha...lin-resistance/ ((What is Insulin Resistance)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/wha...o-in-your-body/ (What does insulin do)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/personal-fat-threshold/ (Personal Fat Threshold theory of Diabetes, Insulin Resistance and Obesity)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/insulin-resistance/. (Real reason for Insulin Resistance and how much to reverse it)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/you...lism-explained/ (Metabolism in 2 infographics)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/energy-toxicity/ (Keto Lie #8 Insulin Toxicity)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/doe...e-insulin-keto/ (Keto Lie #10 Stable Blood Sugars lead to Fat Loss)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/oxi...ctive-fat-loss/ (Oxidative Priority)

https://optimisingnutrition.com/case-for-keto/ (Criticism of Case for Keto, Taubes)


EDIT ADD:…Labor Day Sale on Lifetime membership to all programs, forever.

https://www.facebook.com/optimising...JXxu5rqpd1nKf1l

JEY100 Tue, Sep-20-22 05:08

Marty is on another roll. He has been writing new articles and after proofreading, posted FOUR on his blog today. All,interesting, especially the first on Vitamins and supplements…could they be making us fat?

Nutrients: Could You Be Getting Too Much of a Good Thing?

https://optimisingnutrition.com/too-much-nutrients/

The Perils of Belief-Based Nutrition

https://optimisingnutrition.com/belief-based-nutrition/

The Cheat Codes for Nutrition for Optimal Satiety and Health

https://optimisingnutrition.com/che...-for-nutrition/

Low-Carb vs Low-Fat: What’s Best for Weight Loss, Satiety, Nutrient Density, and Long-Term Adherence?

https://optimisingnutrition.com/low-carb-vs-low-fat/

cotonpal Tue, Sep-20-22 08:03

I need to read Marty's article on nutrients so I am not commenting on that specifically What I am offering is my approach to nutrition. I view supplements as exactly that supplemental. I work to maximize the nutrient density of all the food I eat and then I add supplements to augment the nutritional value of my diet not as a substitute for nutrient dense foods. This is all far from an exact science but I do believe that supplements have their place but nutrient dense foods certainly comes first.

WereBear Tue, Sep-20-22 10:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I need to read Marty's article on nutrients so I am not commenting on that specifically What I am offering is my approach to nutrition. I view supplements as exactly that supplemental. I work to maximize the nutrient density of all the food I eat and then I add supplements to augment the nutritional value of my diet not as a substitute for nutrient dense foods. This is all far from an exact science but I do believe that supplements have their place but nutrient dense foods certainly comes first.


I agree with this, since my own circumstances are such that I seem to have eroded some of my systems with stress. As a result, I do best when I supplement more niacin than I could get from food, more D3 than I can get from sunlight, and more protein than my challenged system can digest without some help.

Nutrient dense foods are the base we build the rest upon.

Every time I've embarked on a shift in my low carb eating pattern, I tracked the first few months, and my profile was always above the RDA. Actual food has other stuff -- beyond multivitamin -- like micronutrients and others yet undiscovered.

The difference between fertilizing with petro vs organic. The artificial fertilizer has everything we know plants crave.

The organic has everything.


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