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JEY100 Fri, Feb-26-21 17:07

For the real numbers on the macros I have actually eaten:
Today I caught up on my NO Masterclass "homework!" and updated my Macros and Nutrient Reports. Since Feb 6th, I average 110 grams of protein, which is 42% of calories. Average calories 1062. Fat macro is 40 % with a Nutrient Score of 76% (good for a beginner, not leaderboard worthy). I have not given calories a thought as I enter my meals...except my birthday :eek: so until now had no idea it was that low. The MC program focuses on nutrients, so I am eating more fish, chicken, egg whites!, less fatty beef, more vegetables, with that bomb of 0% yogurt, protein powder and berries.

Macros and Nutrient Scores are not anything to be concerned about in the DDF program, that is all about WHEN you eat, but these numbers have worked out for me in both DDF and now NO. The key to being able to eat this low amount of energy over the long term is having satiety from the nutrient dense food you do eat. I usually eat two meals about 5-6 hours apart. The data behind lowest calorie intake with two meals a day rather than OMAD is: Like all ideas in DDF, it is presented as a short can delve into it or not, incorporate it, or not.
PS: Mark Sisson's new book to be published March 9th is titled, Two Meals a Day !

WHAT you eat is introduced about 10 days into DDF. There are General suggestions to consider upping protein by small amounts, protein earlier in the day, reducing carbs if post meal BG is still an issue, etc. but you can also sail through DDF only trying to determine the best Fasting window for you. Marty, like Dr Westman and Naiman, is not a fan of fasting longer than 24 hours.

BawdyWench Sat, Feb-27-21 07:19

Originally Posted by JEY100
You might enjoy the interview with both Marty and Dr. Naiman..there was discussion of protein.

Marty has collected his Streamyard interviews so they are now on YouTube to watch.

Janet, thanks so much for posting this. I finally got the time to watch it and thought it was brilliant. So many good, practical ideas. Time to unlearn certain things, which is so hard. I wish it were all settled once and for all, but that's never going to happen. We all just have to keep learning, keep our minds open, and GO FOR THE PROTEIN!


I'm starting to re-think the composition of the 16/8 window (really striving for 18/6 and I'll get there eventually). I have my first protein-heavy meal around noon. Then I don't eat again until 6:00 pm. Sometimes I'm very hungry for dinner, other times not so much. Regardless, I still find it hard to get enough good protein in with just 2 meals, so I'm going to start having a small snack around 3:00 or 4:00. Some egg whites, some GY with collagen (or protein powder; I've heard this called "progurt"). This approach will enable me to bump up the protein just a bit, which might be exactly what I need. We'll see how that goes for a week or so.

The challenge officially starts next Saturday, and I'm itching to get started "for real."

GRB5111 Sat, Feb-27-21 10:37

Great thread and discussions. I'm learning a lot here. It took me some time to adapt to 2 meals a day, and I didn't do it on purpose, it just worked out that I was not hungry until around noon/ early afternoon and then again at around 5:30 - 6:00. Being fat adapted; yet, no longer chasing ketones means that I can go a long time without needing to eat if necessary. Helps on my frequent drives up to New England from Virginia to visit family and friends. No need to worry about food to eat during the drive. Very freeing.

BawdyWench Sat, Feb-27-21 10:40

Rob, I agree with you. I've worked from home for many years, but still had to go in to the office from time to time. Whenever I did, I never took lunch with me. Just such a hassle to get it ready in the morning. I'd get hungry around noon or 1:00, but if I kept busy, I could easily breeze past the hunger and wait until dinner.

JEY100 Mon, Mar-01-21 05:43

Yikes, 419 signed up for this DDF Challenge so far. Many of those Gin Stephens podcast followers are piling in. So many are starting already ;)

On the NO page the simple Happy Scale app was recommended, which I have used myself for 8-10 years. Then heard an old Gin Stephens podcast with its developer (who started over 300 pounds) and Gin mentioned she started fasting with the Dr Bert Herring Fast 5, published in 2013. I read that book when it came out...why didnít I stick with it??? :lol:
I am forever doing this! I saved the Gary Taubes 2002 article from the NYT magazine! So. Many. Others.

BawdyWench Mon, Mar-01-21 06:44

Last I looked, it was 250+ who had signed up for the challenge. How does this even work? Already I can't follow all the posts. Does Marty put up a post every morning, and then people discuss it? Is it instead (or in addition) a free-for-all?

So many have already started, you're right. It's probably to get them accustomed to the app, but OH MY GOODNESS all the questions on "where's the app?", "when will I get the workbook?", "how do I determine my trigger?", "when do I fast?", etc. And my favorite, "Which instrument do I need to measure trigger point? Do I have to prick my fingertip? If so, how many times?" :lol:

I get that people are excited, but people really should wait for the challenge to begin and THEN ask all these questions. I'm guilty of asking a couple questions, but it was because the app wasn't working correctly.

"Why didn't I stick with it?" How many times I've asked myself the same question! Sometimes I get very down thinking about when I started this journey 20+ years ago, I was 30 pounds lighter than I am now. How can I have lived a low-carb lifestyle for 20+ years, studied and learned from so many experts, and I'm in worse shape than when I started?

Today I'm going in for a colonoscopy (oh, the joys of aging!), so I had to fast totally yesterday. I probably won't eat anything today, either. At least it's giving me a head-start on DDF!

JEY100 Mon, Mar-01-21 07:20

Marty does put up a lesson each day, and for so many questions the admins and members will answer with "Read FAQ #x". Since I have another group to admin, I only jump in on interesting discussions. I try helping on the public DDF page but it got too crazy with those "what's that finger sticky thing" questions. Alex is starting his daily App videos, first one today at 4pm. They go above and beyond trying to help people!...everyone take a deep breath.

Oh, do have an enjoyable day. That procedure is always a highlight. ;) But cool that you had some fasting practice built into this week.

Our library e-book service had the Gin Stephens Fast Feast Repeat. I skimmed it last time, giving it a bit more attention now, esp a Chapter called "Diet Brain"...when you are so confused by all the conflicting diet info, much of it written by doctors. Her advice is to stop reading books with advice about food, but then she is famous for the "Clean Fast" advice...not one drop of calories or artificial sweeteners in your coffee or water. This is after Dr Naiman and Bernstein convinced me a diet soda once in a while wouldnít kill me and frankly, has helped me fast. :lol:

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-02-21 06:34

There's a post up now that asks whether we get to keep the app after the challenge, and Marty said only if you are an unlimited member. Guess I'll keep using the spreadsheet.

However, it appears that the values entered in one tab don't populate into the next tab so it looks like you have to constantly copy the values over or track them on multiple tabs.

Or, once you get to the Hunger Training, for example, do you change the "start" date to the date you start that phase? I suppose this, too, will be answered during the challenge. I just don't want to get too far behind in case I have to enter in multiple places.

JEY100 Tue, Mar-02-21 06:47

When I joined, DDF was $37, unlimited $74. I had already completed three months on my own and knew I would continue.

Iím not sure what you are asking, because the last tabs are for Eating Windows. I think you would leave your Hunger Training data on that tab, and start a new sheet with different columns, different focus.
The only number needed from Baselining is the Trigger that was calculated and it does carry over...or you can manually add whatever number you want.
When I used the Excel/Google sheet, I wrote over whatever the Tab start date was, and all dates in the column adjusted.
Not sure I answered the 🙋‍♀️

BawdyWench Tue, Mar-02-21 06:52

Looking at it again, it's only the waking BG that is repeated. I guess I just wanted everything to be on one sheet so I could track everything at once. See? There really is such a thing as a dumb question!

BawdyWench Wed, Mar-03-21 09:06

Have to say, I'm really enjoying this DDF journey. It's eye-opening to see how different foods affect my body, and that if I wait to eat until I deplete the glucose stores in my liver, good things happen. This morning I'm down a total of 7 pounds in the past 13 days since I started DDF. I'm thrilled and can't wait until we actually start on Saturday.

EDITED TO ADD that I found out this morning that all the video meetings will be recorded and available on the site. Good deal, since a lot of the starting times are not good for me.

BawdyWench Thu, Mar-04-21 06:18

I'm amazed at how much I'm learning about how my body handles foods. If I have a meal of just protein and minimal fat, my BG can actually go down. If I have some carbs, like a bit of rice on the side, it can go up 15 to 20 points. Black coffee can make it rise up to 20 points.

Yesterday a friend came over for "Wednesday Afternoon Happy Hour." We do this not every week, but often enough that it's a habit. We're relatively new friends and still learning about each other. Not the kind of close friend you tell your innermost feelings to, but who knows.

I knew I'd be making a snack, so made sure I had a protein-filled lunch of 4 oz ham with 3 HB egg whites, figuring that would lessen the amount of snacking.

The snack I made was a spinach dip containing Philly, ricotta, pimientos, dry vegetable soup mix, cheddar, and spinach. Really tasty, and I always have the leftover dip mixed in with scrambled eggs. I also put a medium bowl of half Triscuits and half pretzels for each of us. I ate around half of what I put out for me. Having the lunch before helped me rein in a bit.

Dinner was two 4 oz filet mignons.

This morning I was expecting my BG to be quite high due to the crackers/pretzels. Nope. It was 91. HOWEVER, my weight was up almost 2 pounds from the carbs (fluid retention)! I'll freeze that dip for another time and hide the crackers. They don't really call to me, so I should be fine.

So the other thing I learned is that I don't need as much food as I had been eating. In attempting to reach 130 g protein, I was eating huge lunches and dinners of basically protein. Last night I had the two small steaks, and realized one would have been plenty.

I'll focus on shooting for the 40% of protein, regardless of number of grams, but listening more closely to my hunger from now on.

Sorry for the long post.

JLx Thu, Mar-04-21 07:32

Thank you for the long post! :) I'm reading this board with great interest and really appreciate the real-life experience.

JEY100 Thu, Mar-04-21 10:18

Although the Bawdy Wench has already taken off on her fasting discovery tour, the program does not actually start until Saturday, so anyone still can join. The teaching videos, manuals, FAQs are all posted on the FB group page to catch up.

thud123 Thu, Mar-04-21 10:35

I'm joining. NO MC was a flop for me, Too much work but a good experience to see what others were doing and some of the foods folks were experimenting with. I'll take some of the ideas from there and mash up hybrid NODDF Nutrient Optimized Data Driven Fasting - hope to see you guys there - registering now and will do prep work before Sat.

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