Active Low-Carber Forums

Active Low-Carber Forums (http://forum.lowcarber.org/index.php)
-   Semi Low-Carb Plans (http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=138)
-   -   Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484792)

BawdyWench Tue, Feb-23-21 08:30

I remember reading that, too. I really did read all the guides plus his blog. :lol:

I seem to be averaging around 1400 calories, but I'm getting way more protein and way less fat than in all my prior years of LC eating.

BawdyWench Wed, Feb-24-21 07:51

Morning BG was 88, which is the lowest reading so far for first thing in the morning. Weight is the same as yesterday. Yesterday's macros:

Calories: 1,150
Fat: 54 g
Carbs: 48 g
Protein: 118 g

There's a lively discussion already on the DDF Facebook page. I've always wondered about OMAD (One Meal a Day). I can't seem to do that ... yet.
Maybe I'll get there. One woman writes:

Quote:
I went to eating OMAD - one meal a day. (This works well for me). Prioritised protein, minimized both fats and carbs. So, lots of lean protein. Chicken breast, lean ham, salmon, tuna, fish, prawns. Egg whites added to omelettes or smoothies. Low fat Greek yoghurt. Salad greens, tomato, asparagus, courgette, spinach etc. Berries, rhubarb. I eat a lot in that one meal.


She doesn't say how much of those foods she eats, but if she's getting enough protein, how can she possibly eat all those veggies, too? I'd be stuffed to the gunnels. Another woman says:

Quote:
After 10 days i was eating omad. Protein vegetables no fats no dairy. Average 600 calories daily.


I guess I'm a little confused. Marty tends to recommend Ted Naiman's P:E ratios and levels (right?), so how is this second woman getting enough protein? Naiman's formula is to start with 100 pounds for females and add 5 pounds for every inch you are over 5 feet tall. At 5'6", that makes my ideal weight 130. I believe that's ridiculous, unless you're in your teens or twenties.

Naiman goes on to say that this is the amount of protein you need in grams.
So, 130 g protein for me. If I were to pick a very lowfat whitefish, I'd have to eat 2 pounds of it to get to 146 g protein. And that's 768 calories, higher than the second woman's menu. I must be missing something.

Or maybe it's like the HCG plan where they say the reason you can get by on 500 calories virtually no fat fat or protein (around 50g total) is because you're getting your nutrition from the fat that is stored in your body's fat cells.

I've been really trying to reach more than 130 g of protein, but maybe I don't have to ... or maybe I shouldn't try. ~Just eat until I'm satisfied, and if it turns out to be 90 g of protein for the day, I should just take it?

I suppose I should just be patient and see how this rolls out from day to day.
It doesn't even start until March 6. That's 10 more days. I also suppose I should use those 10 days to re-read the DDF book and memorize all 99 FAQs.

Right, Janet? lol: :lol: :lol:

JEY100 Wed, Feb-24-21 13:44

Although I used a version of PE, Marty really is "Diet Agnostic". There are a number of committed vegetarians and they eat some weird things to get higher protein levels. Lori is one of those tiny women who eat OMAD, and she has been a Trim Healthy Mama fan for years. His data show 2 meals earlier in the day gives the most satiety but if you want to OMAD, that's fine too. Find what works best for you. Marty recommends his own MacroCalculator, and then if you should increase protein and lower fat only do so in small increments.
I laughed at the Ted Naiman formula...not for a 70 yo retired woman with a personal and family history of obesity. That Goal page early in the program..pick what YOU think is comfortable, it may not even be a weight.

And he asks to consider protein % not absolute grams.

Quote:
35. How much protein do I need?
Protein requirements will depend on your lean mass and your activity level. While 0.8 g/kg LBM is an absolute minimum to prevent deficiency, we tend to find people do better in terms of nutrient density and satiety with 1.8 g/kg LBM or ideally 2.2 g/kg LBM to prevent loss of muscle during weight loss.
In percentage terms, we find people achieve better satiety and fat loss when they work up to 40 to 50% of their energy from protein. However, rather than eating more high protein foods, this is achieved by getting adequate protein and dialling back easily accessible energy from both fat and carbs.
While more bioavailable protein will help to preserve lean muscle when you are losing weight, if you find you are not hungry, you donít need to worry so much about your absolute protein intake (in grams) so long as your protein percentage is higher than 40%.
You can use our simple macro calculator to see how much protein you need and track your intake in Cronometer for a few days to see what you are getting from your current diet.

BawdyWench Wed, Feb-24-21 15:56

Yup, read that from Kendall, but I also read this from Naiman's book:

Quote:
A good rule of thumb is targeting protein at about 1 gram per day per pound of IDEAL body weight (not what you actually weigh, but what you probably SHOULD weigh). A rough estimate of idea body weight for women is 100 pounds for the first five feet of height and then 5 pounds for every additional inch over 5 feet....

So a male 5 feet 10 inches tall would want to target 160 grams of protein per day, and a female 5 feet 4 inches tall would want to target 120 grams of protein per day. Keep in mind that these are MINIMUM targets and it would be ok to EXCEED this number.


Granted, I know it's not good to mix plans. I'll experiment a bit. Today so far I've already had 64 grams of protein (7.8 g lean ham and 4.5 g of lean pork) and I'm still full. For dinner I'm making steak. It comes out to 128 g protein for the day, yet with only 725 calories.

I'm still wavering all over, but all in a good way, if you know what I mean.

JEY100 Wed, Feb-24-21 18:58

You might enjoy the interview with both Marty and Dr. Naiman..there was discussion of protein.

Marty has collected his Streamyard interviews so they are now on YouTube to watch. https://youtu.be/ilduzDTFUlQ

BawdyWench Thu, Feb-25-21 05:33

Thanks, Janet! Super busy today, but I'll put it on the list for this weekend.

And thanks for quoting the FAQ about how much protein is needed. I've been re-reading the FAQs, and somehow had missed this part of that particular one:

Quote:
While more bioavailable protein will help to preserve lean muscle when you are losing weight, if you find you are not hungry, you donít need to worry so much about your absolute protein intake (in grams) so long as your protein percentage is higher than 40%.


Good to know!!! I'd been trying to reach at least 130 g of protein even when I wasn't hungry, forcing myself to eat that much. Now I know it's ok to back off and eat less, as long as I'm getting 40% of calories as protein. The menu I have planned for today ends up with 963 calories and 94 g protein, which is 39% of the total. Fat is at 49 g and carbs at 13 g.

JEY100 Fri, Feb-26-21 06:30

If you want to lose weight, that is perfect...what is supposed to happen. Marty and Ted would of course like to see more carbs, but that is hard for me after a decade of limiting them, and you having to figure out how to cook the fiber or some way avoid gut distress.
My big cheat in Optimising Nutrition is still Greek yogurt, with protein powder and collagen (56g protein) and 1/2 c berries (with yogurt for 9.2 net carbs)

DDF is primarily about meal timing and finding the optimal fasting schedule for you through progressive overload...but What to eat gets added about half way through, tips on front Loading protein, etc...so you are way ahead already :lol:

lowjax Fri, Feb-26-21 07:05

Love the thread going on here. I'm not going to do DDF now, but love learning from your back and forth.

And this:
Quote:
While more bioavailable protein will help to preserve lean muscle when you are losing weight, if you find you are not hungry, you donít need to worry so much about your absolute protein intake (in grams) so long as your protein percentage is higher than 40%.


That's great. I often get the minimum protein recommended, but this is good to know for days that I don't want to eat a lot.

JEY100 Fri, Feb-26-21 07:12

Jeff, I started back in August by getting Marty's free DDF manual, which includes the basic spreadsheet, and doing it on my own. Later I wanted the community of the Challenges, but Marty truly gives an amazing amount of information in his blog and free books. Find the books through this thread https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...26&postcount=48

GRB5111 Fri, Feb-26-21 07:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
If you want to lose weight, that is perfect...what is supposed to happen. Marty and Ted would of course like to see more carbs, but that is hard for me after a decade of limiting them, and you having to figure out how to cook the fiber or some way avoid gut distress.
My big cheat in Optimising Nutrition is still Greek yogurt, with protein powder and collagen (56g protein) and 1/2 c berries (with yogurt for 9.2 net carbs)

DDF is primarily about meal timing and finding the optimal fasting schedule for you through progressive overload...but What to eat gets added about half way through, tips on front Loading protein, etc...so you are way ahead already :lol:

Good observations, as I won't start adding unnecessary carbs without understanding two things:
1) How they would be beneficial for my health, and if only borderline, no go.
2) Whether they lead down a slippery slope and trigger desire for more carbs.

After having dealt with indiscriminate carb eating for many years when I was very fit and very naive, I won't ever go that route or try anything long term that can lead back to that uninformed route.

Like the idea of adding protein to Greek yogurt. I'll have to try that one.

lowjax Fri, Feb-26-21 07:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Jeff, I started back in August by getting Marty's free DDF manual, which includes the basic spreadsheet, and doing it on my own. Later I wanted the community of the Challenges, but Marty truly gives an amazing amount of information in his blog and free books. Find the books through this thread https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...26&postcount=48


Thanks so much for the link! I do appreciate it!

BawdyWench Fri, Feb-26-21 07:18

It's funny, because I never thought of protein as satiating. For me, fat was what I went to for satiety. Now that I'm focusing on increasing protein and lowering fat, I can't believe how full I am after eating protein!

Janet, I'm with you on the carbs, especially the ones with a lot of fiber. Veggies are really more a condiment, to add a bit of another flavor to meals.

About 10 or so years ago I started going to the Women to Women clinic here in Maine. Loved it at first, but they were so heavily into supplements I was spending at least $100 per month, every month, on them. The NP I saw (they were all NPs, no MDs) insisted I try the Schwarzbein program with 90 grams of carbs a day (popcorn was high on the list of recommendations). I told her I'd gain weight on 90 grams of carbs a day, even without eating starches (except for healthywholegrains, of course). She said that was rubbish and insisted I try it. So I did, and gained something like 15 pounds over the course of the summer. She was stunned and I suspect she didn't really believe I was following the program, even though I was following it to the letter.

JEY100 Fri, Feb-26-21 07:19

Rob, That is a variation of Ted's Protein Ice Cream. Wildly popular for some reason. Try it with frozen mixed berries. :lol:

https://www.lowenergydiet.com/Tips.html

Ted's rant about "Processed Foods". https://youtu.be/zCgDBd8FgvY
It was very freeing for me ;)

Ms Arielle Fri, Feb-26-21 08:16

BW, about your post where u question how can a person get enough protein on 600 cal a day.......from what I understand about Dr Fungs writings, fasting drives the body to clean up and reuse that protein. Perhaps low calorie diets and vegetarian diets also work to clean up , at least this is my hypothesis and I'm looking for verification. Dr fung is certain fasting cleans up the body to recycle protein.

BawdyWench Fri, Feb-26-21 08:33

Ms. Arielle, I think you're right. I know with the HCG plan where you eat only 500 calories with no more than around 50 g of protein, they say that the low calories "free up" the fat cells and you end up getting your nutrition from that source.

I was trying to equate eating one meal a day of 130+ grams of protein, per Naiman. In the quote Janet posted above, the recommendation can go up to 2.2 g/kg LBM to prevent loss of muscle during weight loss. If your lean body mass is, say, 100 kilograms, that would be 220 grams of protein! I didn't see how you could possibly eat that much in one meal, let alone in an eating window of 4 to 6 hours.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:45.

Copyright © 2000-2022 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.