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-   -   Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484792)

Iceberg Tue, Jul-20-21 12:28

As of this morning, I'm now down 2 #s since Saturday. I've decided to stick with my morning routine, a very healthy green smoothie with kale, mixed greens and spinach, then some protein powder. Then a bit of the nutritional yeast and some collagen for my skin issues. It rarely affects my BG so I can be sure to have that second meal for the remaining protein I need.

If I change up my first meal I usually screw up the time of the second or suffer/stress needlessly. My evenings are either cooked veggies or a nice salad mix with a protein of stir fry chicken I cook in the air fryer or salmon, etc...I drink water and tea through out the day.

I think for me, this is sustainable for the weight loss portion and then will have to reevaluate when I hit maintenance. Maybe eat more beef or something. Beef does seem to halt the loss for me.

I may sign up for the next NO and decide to participate or not. It was too much for me in May. However, I am now logging and even paid for the upgrade in Chronometer so I did establish a new habit.

Anyone else in the Jul DDF?

thud123 Tue, Jul-20-21 12:40

I am doing July DDF Iceberg. I think I'm gonna really concentrate on cutting out the fat in the ground beef I get or eat less of it and more fish/chicken - it's surprising even with 85% beef how much extra fat energy there is in there. Looking to learn more and have fun after some initial feasting now.

Ms Arielle Tue, Jul-20-21 13:47

Yes, hamburger has a surprising amount of fat.

Iceberg Tue, Jul-20-21 16:54

After I started logging food in Chronometer, I also checked the meals in the P:E calculator. I think that is helping me succeed as well.

Anyone else concerned or check the P:E ratio?

https://ptoer.com/

d

JEY100 Wed, Jul-21-21 02:41

Yes, I am a moderator in this DDF and I use the P:E calculator, though after two NO Masterclass I know fish and chicken are high enough to then mix with other foods with more energy. After years of being very low carb and only having limited amounts of high fat dairy, I have loved adding back LF yogurt and cottage cheese, mixed with collagen, whey protein and frozen mixed berries. I check those "bowl combos" to be sure not too far off the PE gauge. Many practical tips, which foods to eat or not, on this new Ted Naiman interview with Bett Lucas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP2xKjbA4PA


Ps: yesterday on Twitter Ted Naiman gave a thumbs up to a Fairlife Protein Shake (try Target) I’ve been using the Trader Joe's brand of Ultra-Filtered milk, need to forage for some new foods :lol:

Pps: Hit a new low this morning, .4 below previous low weight :) the 45min to 1 hour cardio in the water 6 days a week is probably helping too, at least tightening some of the flab from almost a year without strength machine exercise.

Iceberg, are you using the "Hulk" green smoothie from the NO Masterclass?
The other "protein dessert" I like is the PSMF Flan in the free sample recipe books shared in class (both are from the KetoGains guys). https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...lan/#more-16451

Iceberg Wed, Jul-21-21 12:04

Janet,

I don't know what the HULK green smoothie is. I didn't get far in the NO MC so I didn't seek out recipes, etc...thru there. This is one I came up with on my own like before even Keto... lol.

What is in the Hulk? Can you share?

Another new low on the scale today...3.2 lbs down now...amazing.


d

Iceberg Wed, Jul-21-21 12:12

Janet,

is this the recipe?

Ingredients

SERVES 1

100 g (3.5oz) spinach (fresh)
40 g (1.4 oz) cucumber
30 g (1 oz) protein powder
240 mL almond milk (unsweetened)
Stevia or your preferred sweetener (to taste)

Directions

Place ingredients in a blender and blend on high until smooth.
Add extra almond milk and/or water until you get desired consistency.
Add cinnamon or matcha powder (optional).

I found it here - https://optimisingnutrition.com/hulk-green-smoothie/


If so, I think I'll stay with mine. I don't care for milk/almond milk and always worry about so much spinach everyday so I have different greens, like kale, spring mix, collards, spinach, etc...then I have a protein powder I like, add the collagen and some unfortified nutritional yeast, water and ice.

In the old days I also added avocado but now I have so much fat to lose I don't look to eat fat.

I'd like to find something more nutritious then water. Coconut water has sugar I think, unless I drain a coconut and I've not found any in my area.


ps - i love cucumber with lemon and water in the summer...very refreshing. Not sure of the benefits in a smoothie and will check that out. Maybe it would supply some nutrients I'm missing.


d

JEY100 Wed, Jul-21-21 12:36

Yup, that's the base. The cucumber has decent nutrients for almost no calories, bu everyone was tweaking it their own way. Steve wrote..."Tweaking the Hulk Green Smoothie this morning - added 1 tsp ground eggshell, 15g arugula and 35g watercress oh and 5g fresh basil.
I think that scored 82% then I ate 1 tsp yeast extract spread and 4 brazil nuts to give me a decent start to the day - I managed to get up into the 90's yesterday and I have a 'modified' Popeye Bowl planned later so am confident I'll score well enough today also.

Have you tried Fairlife Fat-Free milk? Ted Naiman and Bob in the NO class use that. I use the TJ's 2% ultra-filtered milk version but now I want to go out in search of their protein drink and 0%.

I could not do ground eggshells!! :lol:

Iceberg Wed, Jul-21-21 13:08

No eggshells for me either! I am lactose intolerant so I don't do milk. Not sure what Fairlife brand is but will google it.

I use 60 grams of greens in my smoothie, 1/2 T of the nutritional yeast and a rounded scoop of the collagen. The collagen also helps my allergies and why I won't give it up. I make my own blend of protein powder mix. End up with about 40 grams of the powder.

I try to get more than half my daily protein in the first meal as often I don't care to eat much for dinner. In week 3 of the last DDF I found it very hard to get at or below my trigger. So by consuming more earlier, I'm hoping as the trigger drops I can still eat twice a day.

I make my own blend of protein powder mix. It makes it more palatable. I end up with 40 to 50 grams of the protein powder.

If I consume the smoothie around 10ish then I'm good by 4 to 5pm to eat another meal. We'll see if that works after the trigger goes below 90 this time.

I'll have to listen to that youtube with Dr Ted.

GRB5111 Wed, Jul-21-21 13:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Yup, that's the base. The cucumber has decent nutrients for almost no calories, bu everyone was tweaking it their own way. Steve wrote..."Tweaking the Hulk Green Smoothie this morning - added 1 tsp ground eggshell, 15g arugula and 35g watercress oh and 5g fresh basil.
I think that scored 82% then I ate 1 tsp yeast extract spread and 4 brazil nuts to give me a decent start to the day - I managed to get up into the 90's yesterday and I have a 'modified' Popeye Bowl planned later so am confident I'll score well enough today also.

Have you tried Fairlife Fat-Free milk? Ted Naiman and Bob in the NO class use that. I use the TJ's 2% ultra-filtered milk version but now I want to go out in search of their protein drink and 0%.

I could not do ground eggshells!! :lol:

Hi Janet - I have a question about recommended protein powder. What is recommended for smoothies and to mix with other soft foods (yogurt, cottage cheese) to add more protein? Is it a whey powder or something else? If so, which brand are people finding suitable?

By the way, the Naiman interview with Bett Lucas was chalk full of good information. Good stuff.

Iceberg Wed, Jul-21-21 14:47

Rob,

I'm not Janet, but I like Jay Robb Egg white protein powder and I've used the Dymatize Elite 100% Whey Protein Powder, 25g Protein per scoop, 5.5g BCAAs & 2.7g L-Leucine, Quick Absorbing & Fast Digesting for Optimal Muscle Recovery.

And I like a few of the Quest Protein powders, especially the caramel and salt one. I also use their unflavored.

Waiting to hear what other's use.

d

JEY100 Wed, Jul-21-21 15:01

FairLife was the first major brand of Ultra-Filtered Milk, that filters out all the lactose so it is almost sugar-free and low carb too. It comes in the usual array of fat %, a creamer, yogurts and now a protein drink. Popular, so Trader Joe's now has their own branded version, and other brands are doing the same.

Rob, any protein powder you like is OK. Whey is more popular if focus is on protein than any plant versions, but they all mix in well. The amino acids are supposedly more complete, but I have not ventured into "branched chain" etc. differences.
Ted recommended CelluCor in his video on "processed food". https://youtu.be/zCgDBd8FgvY

I still use some IsoPure which is very low carb and comes in smaller bags than the "Bro-sized tubs" and it has a banana flavor.
Liked that when I thought I would never be able to eat a banana again. Optimum Nutrition is convenient because it is in Costco and Target in chocolate or vanilla. I think Target and Amazon have the smaller bags of it so you can try different brands and flavors to find one you like.

Bett's video was very practical..she has been doing DDF with us, so she sees the questions that come up from members who are trying to up protein, move it forward in the day, and follow Ted's recommendations. Same when she interviewed Marty, she had already started a DDF program and asked the questions many had.

GRB5111 Wed, Jul-21-21 19:23

Thanks, Iceberg and Janet. I have Isopure Zero Carb Unflavored and used it in the past and liked it to a point, but . . . . I have to be careful to mix it with something that either has a lot of fiber and/or not overdo the amount. I'm wondering if this experience is typical . . . .

WereBear Thu, Jul-22-21 05:26

Aldi brand is good stuff. I like the chocolate best, but it also comes in strawberry and vanilla. All whey, and no weird sweeteners.

Buying at the store is the best price. My favorite method is mixing it into Greek yogurt, then adding frozen berries.

Another tactic is to use the flavored collagen drinks in yogurt.

deirdra Thu, Jul-22-21 12:16

I have a friend from France who always brings cucumbers for snacks on hikes. Very refreshing and hydrating.

Iceberg Sat, Jul-24-21 09:35

I'm excited my weight continues to drop, but my measurements and % of BF are not...

Week 1 is done in this challenge and I've dropped 4 pounds. The most in a week I've ever lost on DDF. I use a Renpho tape and it showed a bit of an increase from last week and I use one of those fancy scales which gives % of BF. That too is up a bit. So my body is giving me mixed messages this week...lol.

Off to make a cup of herbal tea.......d

GRB5111 Sat, Jul-24-21 11:06

Just watched the following video (some of you have likely seen this since it's been available since January) with Marty discussing nutrition with Dr. Pran Yoganathan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVBtL-70ww

Dr. Pran provides some very interesting views, but I keep coming back to the elegance of the protein-leverage hypothesis after hearing Pran's observations along with those of Naiman and Bikman. While I've never heard Bikman use the "protein-leverage" term, he validates the thinking in many of his videos as well. Understanding this dietary principle makes it easy to understand how to construct a WOE that includes enough protein to prevent overeating, induce satiety, and rediscover the "fullness" signal. We all have different thresholds, and the objective is to discover our sweet spots for protein consumption. It serves to take this approach out of the realm of simply reducing carbs for better health. It's far more than that and opens the door to consuming important micronutrients to achieve an optimal WOE and good health. Good stuff.

JEY100 Sun, Jul-25-21 04:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceberg
I'm excited my weight continues to drop, but my measurements and % of BF are not...

Week 1 is done in this challenge and I've dropped 4 pounds. The most in a week I've ever lost on DDF. I use a Renpho tape and it showed a bit of an increase from last week and I use one of those fancy scales which gives % of BF. That too is up a bit. So my body is giving me mixed messages this week...lol.

Off to make a cup of herbal tea.......d


Iceberg, celebrate a 4 pound loss and ignore the tape! :cheer:
At age 70 after a 70 pound weight loss, I don’t think my waist measurement will ever go down. I hit another new low in weight and seriously examined that roll around my waist…but photos show nada change. :lol: Also with the Renpho scale it appears small changes in body fat reflect changes in water. For the last few days, my water % increased (Southern summer days getting more humid?, drinking more water due heat? No idea) so body fat did go down with weight. Benefit of that scale is there is always at least one SV to claim…mine is still that subcutaneous fat number turned "green". It took so long for that to happen if the weight number goes up, it’s OK ;)

Rob, Dr Pran's gut health views are interesting…and fun. I loved hearing a Sri Lankan with an Australian/NZ accent. And he studied at the Univ of Otago, where Grav took us on a tour and we had lunch! Marty has introduced me to new podcasts, new doctors, new ways of balancing nutrition with health goals. So many nutritional gems in that interview about micronutrients but overarching all…the P:E ratio.

GRB5111 Sun, Jul-25-21 08:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
So many nutritional gems in that interview about micronutrients but overarching all…the P:E ratio.

So true. While there are small nutritional position details that are viewed differently, the P:E principle is common among all.

Iceberg Mon, Jul-26-21 11:25

My new trigger is now 89...I don't think I can make that in the morning...when my FBG seems to be higher. Have thought of doing my main meal as my first, then eat to my trigger for the second. With my smoothie, most of the time my BG drops alot before my second meal. I don't want to obsess with the BG and enjoy this new way of living. I'm 67 and fat since menopause. I'm feeling better then before January of this year, so maybe I should celebrate that.

Anyone here chasing the trigger with every meal? or do you do a main meal (no testing) and eat again only after reaching the trigger?

d

JEY100 Mon, Jul-26-21 12:34

I do my main meal around 6 PM and do not test before it. I only test for a discretionary meal, usually near noon. I know how you feel! whenever my trigger drops below 90 panicked I will not be able to reach it. The first time that happened I didn’t but it has been getting easier. Monday I do 7:15 aerobics class and mine was 88 around 1030. It is now easier but it has taken months. I think for those of us with very stable blood sugar from eating low-carb long-term it just takes a long time. Quite a few members do choose to make the first meal the Main Meal.

And post added today:
Quote:
5.16 What if I’m above my trigger but REALLY hungry?

If you are above Your Personalised Trigger, it’s ideal to wait. You know your body has enough fuel onboard. But if you are REALLY hungry and just above Your Personalised Trigger, it’s OK to eat. Still, you should prioritise nutrients (i.e. leaner meats and seafood with non-starchy vegetables), given you know you already have plenty of fuel onboard.
Eating a high protein meal when you are hungry in the morning (rather than waiting so long that you are ravenous) is a great strategy if you experience some degree of dawn phenomenon. It’s hard to go wrong if you limit fuel when you’re above your trigger and only refuel (with fat and carbs) when you’re below your trigger.

Iceberg Fri, Jul-30-21 06:30

Yesterday I hit my trigger for the first meal. Not so on the second. I had mowed the lawn, drank tons of water, etc...so at 5:45 pm, I ate 4 pts above my trigger. I've been getting severe migraines again and yesterday was pretty bad. I felt like if I didn't eat something, I'd be sick. So, in my mind I'm thinking the chronic migraine kept my BG high and has been messing with it for a week or more as are my allergies.

I have been logging meals ahead and seeing how they look on the P:E calculator. I think that is helping. So right now, one meal is trigger or below and the other just above trigger. I'm still at 88.

JEY100 Sat, Jul-31-21 03:06

With a migraine, you could use the "temporary trigger" adjustment for pain, which will add 10 mg for 24 hours. If my BG is 1-2 points above trigger, I go with that. Too often I have waited another hour, only to have it go higher from being hungry.

Next week will be one year! since starting DDF + PE. Hit another low weight this morning, so happy about that :) The crazy thing is my BG is still in a very narrow range. Waking BG was 101 yesterday (I’m not even checking that regularly) and my trigger is 91. Unless it bumps up a bit from exercise, that's my range for the day. Boring :lol:

Iceberg Sat, Jul-31-21 18:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
With a migraine, you could use the "temporary trigger" adjustment for pain, which will add 10 mg for 24 hours. If my BG is 1-2 points above trigger, I go with that.


My migraines are chronic. I think since allergy season they've come back with a vengance.

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. Plug along the best I can.

JEY100 Thu, Aug-05-21 03:57

1 Attachment(s)
I posted this on the July Challenge page.

Note to WearBear...I ended with your appropriate quote again...is it your own or another's?...want to attribute.


ONE YEAR ON DDF

One year ago today, I started the DDF program and it has been quite a ride. This chart is only weight, not the most important marker in our health journeys, but a fun visual of "trusting the process". I have reached a weight below my goal and much to my surprise, am headed towards an "ideal weight" and body fat %.

August 5th is also the 11th anniversary of my eating a carb restricted diet. That day I started the New Atkins for a New You book at 20g net carbs. Over this past decade, like so many of us, I tried 20g total carbs, eating fatty proteins, restricting vegetables, adding dietary fat, fasting…you name it. Read every book in the low carb/paleo/keto/nutrition space. More about my health history in my moderator story. I reached a healthy BMI rangeat 169, but "stalled" and never saw my original goal of 160. It was a struggle to stay at a normal BMI, but easier than with previous low fat diets. 2020 started with a dream cruise/vacation, then directly into pandemic restrictions, so by August I needed something different.
Low carb works until it doesn’t.

I started with the DDF Program but since October, have also participated in every challenge and NO Masterclass. What could be labeled a bumpy ride down, is "practicing maintenance". This chart shows the times between programs, or a pause, and year end holidays. When the holidays were over, I easily lost regained weight and continued on to a new low weight today not seen since the early 1980s! What makes DDF different?…."Just like any intelligent fitness training routine balances exercise and recovery to ensure positive adaptation, Data-Driven Fasting ensures that short periods of energy deficit are balanced with nutrient-dense feeding to achieve long term progress."

One year ago I would have been thrilled to have lost 20 pounds this past year. Never would I have considered a 35 pound loss with a 22 BMI reasonable at 70 years old, but here I am.
"It turned out my not being able to imagine my new life was only a deficiency in my imagination."

WereBear Thu, Aug-05-21 04:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Note to WearBear...I ended with your appropriate quote again...is it your own or another's?...want to attribute.

"It turned out my not being able to imagine my new life was only a deficiency in my imagination."


Yes, it's mine. It is my pleasure to see this quoted! Writers dream of such :wave:

I am thrilled at your successful transformation. Knowing we are doing our best for our body, which is linked to how well -- and easily! -- we can maintain ourselves at a peak of functioning, is an incredible discovery.

Absolutely worth celebrating! I raise a tiny glass of my favorite pro-biotic tea :lol:

Iceberg Tue, Aug-10-21 09:48

Nearly done with challenge 3 and down 5 lbs. The last two averaged 5.5 lbs...so I might see another wee drop? It's clear that I can reduce my weight, tho slower than I hoped, on this WOE. It's not fair that we gain so fast and lose so slow......lol.

Prior to DDF, I had lost some on the Ideal Protein Alternative plan, but found it to be unsustainable for the long term. After 6 weeks I stopped and quickly began to regain the loss. It was then that I rediscovered Marty (Optomising Nutrition) and subsequently DDF. I downloaded the manual and began DDF on my own. I lost the regain rather quickly and decided to join my first challenge. It's been all speed ahead from that point and with steady loss each month... :)

I've joined the next Masterclass and hope that I don't stress myself out this time. I have been practicing with logging foods and trying to expand my menu to ensure more nutrients, but it's really been hard. I watched Karen's video on how she achieved her 100% the last MC and I think my last test menu was 96? I struggle with Manganese and Zinc. I can't eat organ meats...I've tried and won't try anymore.

Anyway, that's my news...a few more days of this challenge and on to MC on Saturday and then I may take some time off to maintain for awhile. I'll play it by ear.

Anyone else doing the next MC on Saturday?

d

thud123 Tue, Aug-10-21 11:53

way to go Iceberg!

JEY100 Tue, Aug-10-21 12:36

Great results, iceberg!

I will be involved with the Masterclass, but it is so fussy, and I dislike tracking, that I use the same basic easy meals. I can’t get up the enthusiasm for chasing micronutrients. 80-90 is a good NO score so I don’t stress about ever seeing 100. I do use a store bought liver pâté, or better make my own with pastured raised chicken liver and less fat. I did add canned mackerel and other wild caught canned fish and almost any fis raises nutrients as well.
If you have unlimited, you will be glad to know Marty is working hard on revising the Masterclass for 2021 to make it less daunting. And there are two more DDFs this year…looking at my year in review :) I think I more consistently lose weight with DDF.

GRB5111 Tue, Aug-10-21 14:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
I posted this on the July Challenge page.

Note to WearBear...I ended with your appropriate quote again...is it your own or another's?...want to attribute.


ONE YEAR ON DDF

One year ago today, I started the DDF program and it has been quite a ride. This chart is only weight, not the most important marker in our health journeys, but a fun visual of "trusting the process". I have reached a weight below my goal and much to my surprise, am headed towards an "ideal weight" and body fat %.

August 5th is also the 11th anniversary of my eating a carb restricted diet. That day I started the New Atkins for a New You book at 20g net carbs. Over this past decade, like so many of us, I tried 20g total carbs, eating fatty proteins, restricting vegetables, adding dietary fat, fasting…you name it. Read every book in the low carb/paleo/keto/nutrition space. More about my health history in my moderator story. I reached a healthy BMI rangeat 169, but "stalled" and never saw my original goal of 160. It was a struggle to stay at a normal BMI, but easier than with previous low fat diets. 2020 started with a dream cruise/vacation, then directly into pandemic restrictions, so by August I needed something different.
Low carb works until it doesn’t.

I started with the DDF Program but since October, have also participated in every challenge and NO Masterclass. What could be labeled a bumpy ride down, is "practicing maintenance". This chart shows the times between programs, or a pause, and year end holidays. When the holidays were over, I easily lost regained weight and continued on to a new low weight today not seen since the early 1980s! What makes DDF different?…."Just like any intelligent fitness training routine balances exercise and recovery to ensure positive adaptation, Data-Driven Fasting ensures that short periods of energy deficit are balanced with nutrient-dense feeding to achieve long term progress."

One year ago I would have been thrilled to have lost 20 pounds this past year. Never would I have considered a 35 pound loss with a 22 BMI reasonable at 70 years old, but here I am.
"It turned out my not being able to imagine my new life was only a deficiency in my imagination."

Congrats, Janet. Just when you think you've reached the final plateau, daring to try some different methods often pays off big time.


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