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Fascinating! But I'm still not really clear wether using fatty acids directly in the mitochondria as acetyl Co A is a separate process and energy pathway to ketosis. That is, can you be using FFA's directly in the mitochondria of most cells for energy without a ketone in sight or are ketones a necessary part of energy production from fat. Note that I'm not talking about the mobilization of body fat stores by glucagon into FFA's which can then be available for energy. So the FFA's can be either dietary or bodyfat (or both ;) ), but are ketones a necessary part of them being utilized for energy, or just one such way. I've never had bodyweight issues, and I've never been in measurable ketosis but I've been on induction carb levels (for optimum health reasons) and very high fat/ moderate protein for over two years. So what's actually happening in my mitochondria. Are ketones necessarily involved. I realize a few kinds of tissue need (some) ketones if glucose is not available - brain for instance. But what about the rest? Help! I really want to understand this. Confused |
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My understanding is that fat can be metabolized directly in the Mitochondria, without first converting it to Ketones...and that ketones are created only in specific situations (to feed the Brain, when there is inadaquete oxalacetate, when too much fat is being burned too quickly, etc...) http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/h%26p2fuel.htm Quote:
http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/h%26p2fat.htm Quote:
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[QUOTE=cc48510]My understanding is that fat can be metabolized directly in the Mitochondria, without first converting it to Ketones...and that ketones are created only in specific situations (to feed the Brain, when there is inadaquete oxalacetate, when too much fat is being burned too quickly, etc...[QUOTE].
Many thanks. That cleared it up for me. I was always a bit puzzled by the oft stated assumption that very low levels of carbs would necessitate constant high use of ketones ( rather than just a trickle to keep the brain purring). It was amusing to read one of your quoted biochem texts describing the low carb state of the brain becoming adapted to using mostly ketones as 'long term starvation' . I have never felt as if I was starving! . Hmmmm? can I be bothered going to the fridge for another helping of chocolate mousse(.3g cho/ serve :p ) ? One other question. I can see how using ketones is a very energy inefficient (desirably so for weightloss) process. But once your mitochondria get accustomed to FFA metabolism (ie. fat metabolism without ketones)- even during intense exercise (my endurance and strength is far superior now to when I was High complex carb/protein, and I never 'refeed' ) it's actually a very efficient process isn't it? Which might explain why people with a lot of weight to lose find it more and more difficult to do so, the longer they spend low carbing. I'm sure it's still the healthiest and the easiest way to do so (particularly because you just don't get the artificial insulin related 'carb hunger') but would be quicker if the 'metabolic edge' did not reduce the longer a person spent low carbing. |
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At least from my personal experience, that seems to be somewhat true. My weight loss slowed down considerably (3.5 lbs/wk to 1-2 lbs/wk) almost overnight when the strips stopped turning. Since then, its slowed down to about 1/2 lb/wk, but that was far more gradual. |
Keep in mind that as you lose weight, your body need far fewer calories, so as you approach your goal, you will lose weight slower. At some point, if you don't adjust your calories, you will stall. That is pretty typical on any diet. People get use to eating a certain amount of food and forget to slowly adjust downwards.
In my case, I had to cut out a snack and ramp up the exercise to lose those last 15 pounds. However, once you finally lose all the weight, you can ramp up a bit in your eating to maintenance levels. At 9 pounds from your goal, I am not surprised you are down to 0.5 pounds per week. Keep in mind though that that is the best way to go for the last 10 anyway! Brobin |
all I have to say is....
all I have to say is that continued studies in the area of nutrition will only continue to support what others have been saying for centuries about the benefits of a low and lower carb intake in a person's daily diet....it all will begin to be more cohesive and make all the sense in the world as time goes on...I am glad this study came out....facts always always speak for themselves
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I am excited because there is a lot of research in low carb dieting going on. Believe it or not many researchers are interested in this style now even if they may not be convinced it is benificial to people. The one thing I would like to see changed in all these studies is the variable for measuring effectiveness...weight.
As you all know, when starting a low carb regimine you will drop a lot of water weight initially and dieters eating the same calories on a low carb diet will hold less water than if they were eating a more mixed carb diet. Measuring weight only leads to the counter point that these dieters would just gain the weight back if they started eating "normally" again. A bad argument for several reasons yes, but still annoying. In all studies like this (testing low carb diets and other means of improving body comp) we need to make body comp testing the standard. Underwater bodyfat testing is becoming more and more available and utilizing such measures before and after these studies would be very prudent. We need to show if body comp is improved on LC relative to MC/HC diets. It is my guess, and I'm sure others, that besides the dryer look and feel a LC diet gives, there is a better fat reduction effect of LC dieting. |
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I agree. The protein sparing diets are all very low carb..the key is to keep the protein macro high and the calories low for the best body composition re losing fat vs losing LBM while losing 'weight.' |
The amount of calories isn't as important as the amount of hunger: Carbs stimulate a large insulin response. Insulin is a growth factor for adipose(fat) tissue. The result is, insulin makes you quite hungry (they give insulin to treat anorexia.)
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How do you go about tracking your metabolism? I thought measuring your metabolism was something that could only be done in a lab. Not so?
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Reading through this thread makes me realize that this board used to know a lot more about metabolism than it currently does.
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Nice reading this thread again.
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FWIW, my temperature tends to run between 96 and 97 deg F, at least in the morning when I measure it. Assuming I'm not a completely weird case & that I'm also healthy (the latter, at least, seems to be so), it follows that different people have different temperatures. This wasn't always true, my temp used to be in the standard 98.6 range, but it dropped some years ago, I don't know why. Beth |
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That struck me too LC. Stuart |
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A low basal temperature (first thing in the morning) could indicate hypothyroid. :idea: |
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