[Zone] Why Did You Choose the Zone?

[nawchem]

I was just wondering why someone would drop Atkins for the zone, or choose the Zone over other diets. The zone does take more planning and more calculation then the average diet.

For me, I loved Atkins. I could eat all I wanted of some foods, and substitute fake foods for the ones I missed. Its the only way I have ever lost weight in a lifetime of being overweight. Unfortunately I didn't feel good in a big way following Atkins, when I ended up in the hospital I figured it was time to find another way to lowcarb.
Nancy

[ZoneCoach]

Originally posted by nawchem
I was just wondering why someone would drop Atkins for the zone, or choose the Zone over other diets. The zone does take more planning and more calculation then the average diet.

For me, I loved Atkins. I could eat all I wanted of some foods, and substitute fake foods for the ones I missed. Its the only way I have ever lost weight in a lifetime of being overweight. Unfortunately I didn't feel good in a big way following Atkins, when I ended up in the hospital I figured it was time to find another way to lowcarb.
Nancy

I have always been very NUTRITIONALLY conscious, however, I was tired of being TIRED. I was also getting very frustrated with the fact I was not getting any 'return on my investment' ~ time at the gym. Actually, I didn't have to change what I ate so much, but HOW I ate it. Instead of eating an apple by itself, I now balance it with protein and fat. I feel so much better now. I sleep less. I have more energy. My cholesterol numbers are great and I've lost a lot of body fat. I was down to 16.1% and 129lbs.
I will admit, I had a pretty big set back this past few months (not eating enough!), but I'm back on track.
I truly believe in this lifestyle.
I don't want to get into any huge debate over Atkins, but, nutritionally, it does not make sense to me. Also, TOO MUCH saturated fat is allowed and we all know that's not good. To me the Zone is something we can do for LIFE. Atkins is not.
Just my 2 cents.

[pegm]

I decided to try Zone after 15 month on Atkins because Atkins just did not work very well for me -- not at all like it does for some people. I never really got into ketosis, and unless I adhered strictly to 20 carbs or less, I would gain weight.

I have looked forward to a time when I could start adding back some of the foods I really love -- lots more veggies and some fruits, but every time I did that I would gain weight back. After 15 months, the boredom of not eating enough variety was getting to me, and I found myself wanting to cheat more and more. So, I thought it's time for a change -- I needed to try something else, and the Zone seems to fit the way I would like to eat for the rest of my life. It seems balanced -- allows lots of variety, lots of veggies and fruits, but does not promote the 'bad' carbs (white flour, etc.). I really think I need more than the 20 carbs to continue my exercise program. Even when I did BFL on 30 to 40 carbs, I was not getting the results -- I think I did not have enough energy to do the workouts properly.

So, I am hoping I can get the hang of this and I can get results. Even if I never lose another pound, this type of eating plan seems healthy, is more suited to me, and seems like it could be a permanent WOL I can enjoy.

[ZoneCoach]

The Atkins diet is an extreme example of the high-protein diets. You simply can't go around over-consuming protein (often rich in saturated fat) and think good things will be the long-term result. Sure you lose weight quickly, but much of that initial weight loss is primarily due to increased urination to eliminate abnormal ketone bodies? On the Atkins diet you are virtually guaranteed to regain the weight because continual ketosis adapts your fat cells to become "fat magnets". Furthermore, the high saturated fat intake increases the viscosity of your cell membranes so that over time your insulin receptors become less responsive resulting in an increase in insulin levels. The result is that fat regain is inevitable. In addition, some very nasty long-term health risks like the increased risk of heart disease due to increased lipid oxidation also occurs in continued ketosis. The Atkins diet is based on protein gluttony just as long as you don't eat any realistic amounts of carbohydrates. An extreme diet, like Atkins, is totally unbalanced. Millions of people have tried it before, have lost weight, and then regained the weight back and more.

Okay, I'll step off my box now.
:blush:

[Karen]

An extreme diet, like Atkins, is totally unbalanced. Millions of people have tried it before, have lost weight, and then regained the weight back and more.

Really? Millions have gained it all back and more while following the Atkins plan?

The "problem" with the Atkins plan is not the plan itself, it's the way it's interpreted and followed. Like any other plan, it works perfectly. Too bad human fears, phobias, obsessions and just plain wrongful thinking get in the way of its success.

In addition, some very nasty long- term health risks like the increased risk of heart disease due to increased lipid oxidation also occurs in continued ketosis.

Can you give reference to the studies that prove that point?

Karen

[toodlepip]

Hi nawchem...I chose the Zone for a number of reasons....the simplest being it makes the most sense to me.

I have found the low carb way of eating a bit of a minefield over the past 9 months or so....but I keep returning to the Zone because I believe, for me, it stresses balance in a way few of the other plans do.

I recently (in an effort to shift these final 5 pounds) went back to Atkins induction and I will not do this again. I literally experienced brain fade. I could not think clearly, my memory seemed completely fail me and my brain felt - well, fuzzy, for lack of a better word. And the leg cramps came back, my workouts suffered and I developed a pain in my side.

I understand that Atkins works very well for some people but one thing that has often bothered me when reading the threads here about Atkins is the gluttony involved. Sorry but there's no other word for it....I read of people eating copious amounts of food (numerous burgers sans the bun, lobster, bowls of whipping cream etc) in one sitting because there are no/little carbs involved but in my eyes this is a bit mad really...and that is why I like the Zone.....it combines moderation....lower carbs....high fruit & veg with lower fat dairy & lean meats.....and nothing is absolutely forbidden....I don't feel restricted...if I want a piece of chocolate I will adjust my meal and have a square or two for dessert....I don't do this every day but when I do there is no guilt involved and it doesn't send me off on a binge.....

I'm reaching the point where I think my body wants to stay at 125...I work out 4x a week and do a lot of resistance/strength training as well as cardio....my body is slowly changing shape....I am so much stronger and well, if the scale wants to stay at 125 so be it....I may never be skinny but I'm starting to think strong and relatively lean is much sexier!

[Cinderella]

I read of people eating copious amounts of food (numerous burgers sans the bun, lobster, bowls of whipping cream etc) in one sitting

Although I enjoy reading oppinions of others and how they feel about the plans they are on...I had to point this quote out.

I have never read a post where anyone eats like this. I'm sure there may be a SMALL number of folks who over do it on the bacon, but please....be fair about your statements on what others do on their chosen plans.

have a nice day..
cin

[toodlepip]

Originally posted by Cinderella


Although I enjoy reading oppinions of others and how they feel about the plans they are on...I had to point this quote out.

I have never read a post where anyone eats like this. I'm sure there may be a SMALL number of folks who over do it on the bacon, but please....be fair about your statements on what others do on their chosen plans.

have a nice day..
cin


ah relax....don't think I'm being unfair at all.....

here's one of the posts I was referring to...

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52140&highlight=lobster

and there's plenty of others.....I'm not saying everybody does it or that Atkins doesn't work....I just don't think eating pounds of lobster....or 2 quarter pounders in one go

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62476&highlight=double+burgers

is healthy FOR ME....

[Cinderella]

ummm..I am relaxed. I put up with childish behavior everyday, I'm quite use to it.

There are people on this board claiming they are on atkins, pp, cad..etc. They think that because they are attempting to lowcarb....that they are on a "plan".
Those of us who have read the matereals and have done our homework tend to understand the plan we are on and realize that these foods are in moderation(actually all foods should be eaten in moderation)...as for the ZONE...I bet EVERYONE who states they are on this plan has read the book and NEVER over ate any portions.



:roll:

[toodlepip]

oh dear....childish??? I didn't think people made personal attacks here....

all I was stating were my observations and experiences....

obviously pushed some of your buttons inadvertently....which was not what was meant...

as you'll note, I did say I think Atkins can work for some people...but that it was not for me....and one thing that bothered was that I noticed a lot of people going overboard with butter...cream...pork rinds etc .....saturated fat....and that I don't think this is healthy....as I said FOR ME


this was not a personal attack whatsoever.....and how this is childish is beyond me...but to each their own....

I'm outta here

[ZoneCoach]

Originally posted by Karen

The "problem" with the Atkins plan is not the plan itself, it's the way it's interpreted and followed. Like any other plan, it works perfectly.
Yes, many weight loss diets work due to calorie restriction. Most will lose weight, but at what price? As I've mentioned before, the Zone is a lifestyle which can be followed for life. Atkins is not.

Originally posted by Karen

Can you give reference to the studies that prove that point?
Karen
The following is merely a sampling of material available which sites reasons against following diets like Atkins long term.
I am sure Dr. Sears can site many other references. He can be reached at Sears Labs, Marblehead, MA

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9870562&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9436628&dopt=Abstract

http://wuphysicians.org/news.asp?ID=263

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1671.53662?page=1

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter13/13b.htm

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/consumer.html

http://216.185.112.5/downloadable/heart/5246_Professional.pdf
]AHA Science Advisory

http://www.annals.org/issues/v133n4/full/200008150-00017.html

[Karen]

I am sure Dr. Sears can site many other references. He can be reached at Sears Labs, Marblehead, MA

I read through the links posted. Several of them pertain to diabetics, others are articles, one is the infamous Atkins Diet Alert, and the AHA article paints Atkins, Protein Power, The Zone, Sugarbusters, et al, with the same brush because none of them fit in with the AHA dietary guidelines.

If I talked to Dr. Sears or Dr. Atkins, I would probably get the same answer from both of them. But since you have made the statements, I'm asking you about the actual studies that the information came from.

Karen

[ZoneCoach]

Originally posted by Karen
I read through the links posted. Several of them pertain to diabetics Yes, because there tends to be a relationship.
Originally posted by Karen
others are articles and abstracts which are based on studies. I believe their sources are also indicated.
Originally posted by Karen
If I talked to Dr. Sears or Dr. Atkins, I would probably get the same answer from both of them. But since you have made the statements, I'm asking you about the actual studies that the information came from.
Karen The first two listed as well as the last two from my original list, along with these are all supporting studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11228748&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10480618&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9870562&dopt=Abstract

[Karen]

Yes, because there tends to be a relationship.

A relationship between what and what? I still don't understand how it relates to what the studies call "normals".

Diabetic ketoacidosis - hyperketonemia - and dietary ketosis are two different things. Diabetic ketoacidosis is metabolic acidosis from the accumulation of ketones due to severely depressed insulin levels.

Dietary ketosis is often confused with ketoacidosis, which is a life-threatening condition most often associated with uncontrolled insulin-deficient Type 1 diabetes. In the Type 1 diabetic, the absence of insulin leads to a toxic build-up of blood glucose and an extreme break-down of fat and muscle tissue.

Almost everyone is in some degree of ketosis every day, particularly after not eating overnight and after exercising.

Karen

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by ZoneCoach
Yes, because there tends to be a relationship.

Yes, there is, but it's not the one you're trying to prove. Many diabetics are able to control their diabetes and lose fat while following a ketogenic diet such as Atkins or Protein Power.

If you're interested in learning the truth you can read through Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, and you can get a head start reading at his website: http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9834926&dopt=Abstract

We conclude that the partial replacement of complex digestible carbohydrates with monounsaturated fatty acids in the enteral formulae for supplementation of oral diet may improve glycemic control in patients with type 2 diabetes.

Originally posted by ZoneCoach
The first two listed as well as the last two from my original list, along with these are all supporting studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...8&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...8&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...2&dopt=Abstract

Yes, they are. They all support your belief that Ketosis and Ketoacidosis are one and the same. They are not, as Karen has explained.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12097663&dopt=Abstract
The results suggest that a short-term ketogenic diet does not have a deleterious effect on CVD risk profile and may improve the lipid disorders characteristic of atherogenic dyslipidemia.

You might also find this thread of interest: Zone vs. Ketosis (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45496&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

Nat

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by ZoneCoach
The Atkins diet is an extreme example of the high-protein diets.

Ummm...Atkins isn't a high protein diet if you follow it correctly; it's a high FAT diet. Only 25-30% of your daily calories should be coming from protein with 65-70% of your daily calories coming from fats and balance from carbs.
Your profile shows you haven't read Dr. Atkins' book. You might want to try it if you're going to critique it.

[Natrushka]

Taken from a recent news article (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70587) :

This unfortunate association between a young girl's tragic death and some kind of low-carbohydrate diet is also based on a number of erroneous and scientifically unfounded misconceptions on the part of the attending physicians. These include concerns about ketosis, and elevated levels of serum triglycerides and LDL (often referred to as bad cholesterol). It is essential that important scientific studies relevant to this case be well understood. In fact, a recent study out of the University of Connecticut demonstrated that ketosis is not only healthful, but actually may be beneficial to heart health.(1) Other recent studies out of the University of Cincinnati(2), the Durham Veterans Affairs Medical Center of Duke University(3), the Philadelphia Veterans Administration Medical Center(4) and the University of Pennsylvania(5) have consistently shown that the Atkins Nutritional Approach (ANA(TM)) fosters consistent improvement in risk factors associated with heart disease. Triglycerides are lowered and HDL (good cholesterol) is elevated, significantly improving the critical LDL/HDL ratio that is one of the key risk factors associated with heart disease. One of these studies (University of Cincinnati) was funded by the American Heart Association. Two of these studies (Philadelphia VA and University of Pennsylvania) were funded by the government. No studies on the ANA(TM) exist showing anything to the contrary.

References
1. Volek JS et al.: A Ketogenic Diet Favorably Affects Serum Biomarkers for Cardiovascular Disease in Normal-Weight Men. Journal of Nutrition, July 2002.

2. Brehm, BJ et al.: Effects of a Low Carbohydrate Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors, University of Cincinnati, Abstract presented at 85th Annual Meeting of the American Dietetic Association (ADA).

3. Westman, E, et. al.: Effect of 6-Month Adherence to a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet Program. American Journal of Medicine, July 2002.

4. Stern, L et al.: A Pilot Study Comparing a Low Carbohydrate and Low Fat Diet on Weight and Glycemic Control in Obese Diabetics. The Philadelphia Veterans Administration Medical Center, Philadelphia, PA. Abstract presented at 62nd Scientific Sessions of the American Dietetic Association (ADA).

5. Foster, GD: Evaluation of the Atkins Diet a Randomized Controlled Trial, University of Pennsylvania. Publication pending.

6. Sondike S et al.: The ketogenic diet increases weight loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J Adol Health, 26: 91, 2000

Nat

[ZoneCoach]

Originally posted by Lisa N
Your profile shows you haven't read Dr. Atkins' book. You might want to try it if you're going to critique it.
You're right. I have not read the book in its entirety. I should've prefaced my posting with 'In my opinion'. I trust opinions are allowed on this site?
Many people hold their eating plans very near and dear to them ~ like religion ~ and will defend it to the enth degree.
I apologize if I offended anyone. I thought posting in the Zone forum would be predominantly frequented by Zoners.

[ZoneCoach]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Yes, there is, but it's not the one you're trying to prove. Many diabetics are able to control their diabetes and lose fat while following a ketogenic diet such as Atkins or Protein Power.

If you're interested in learning the truth you can read through Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, and you can get a head start reading at his website: http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9834926&dopt=Abstract

You might also find this thread of interest: Zone vs. Ketosis (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45496&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

Nat

Thank you for the references.
In hindsight I should not have made the Atkins reference post. It is my (yes somewhat unknowledegeable) belief it is not a long term, healthy, balanced (nutritionally) way of eating. But that is only my opinion.
It is truly not my intent to discredit any woe or "convert" people to my woe. It is my belief the Zone can offer many healthful benefits beyond weight/fat loss.
I'm here to help those with questions about the Zone woe and to offer any Zone assistance I can.
Respectfully,

[Hiz Baby]

We are all trying to improve our health and either lose weight or keep our weight under control. Does it really matter how we are doing it as long as we feel good about it?

Everyone has their opinion about the WOE they have chosen. We could all go to bat for our favorite, but why bother. We all have the choice to choose how we live our lives and that includes what we eat.

We need to stop attacking each other and start learning from each other.

I, myself, have chosen the Zone over Atkins. I have read Atkins several times and have tried it in the past. For me the Zone just seemed like a better choice. I did lose weight on Atkins, but after a few months I started to not feel well. I tried adjusting it by choosing lower fat meats and not eating the egg yolks (not too hard since I don't like them anyway), but that didn't seem to help too much. I know of a few other people who have done Atkins, but were not able to continue on it for more than a year because of health problems.

Now, I am not saying that their health issues were related to Atkins because I don't know that.

For those of you on Atkins who are able to maintain your health...Hats off to you!

For those of you on the Zone...Hats off to you too.

Take care everyone! :wave:

[Karen]

I should've prefaced my posting with 'In my opinion'. I trust opinions are allowed on this site?

It's perfectly fine to talk from your experience, such as "In my experience, such-and-such happened."

What we strive for is a balanced and sane point of view and always ask for references in this type of discussion that support any claims being made. In this way, we can keep the discussion at a "discussion" level and not get into any personal stuff. You may have noticed that the three people who came into the ketosis discussion - who also happen to be Mods/Mentors - are not Atkins followers, so probably have no vested interest in trumpeting Atkins or any plan as the Holy Grail, only in providing real facts on low-carbing. We drop by most, if not all of the forums regularly.

It is my belief the Zone can offer many healthful benefits beyond weight/fat loss.

There are many reasons for choosing a certain plan. Many people are carb or food addicts. By eating in a certain way, it provides them with a feeling of sanity that they may have never felt. From there, they can tackle the larger issue of addiction. It would be a mistake to think that everyone is here for the sole purpose of losing weight. For certain people, it's a happily embraced side effect.

We need to stop attacking each other and start learning from each other.

There were no attacks in the ketosis discussion. It was an exchange of information that hopefully assisted the people in this thread in learning as well as the many lurkers here who read the forums but never post.

Karen

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by ZoneCoach
I'm here to help those with questions about the Zone woe and to offer any Zone assistance I can. And we're happy to have you here to offer your knoweldge and assistance. And who knows, you may learn a little about other LC plans as well.

Nat

[Hiz Baby]

Sorry Karen,

I didn't mean to offend!

[Karen]

I didn't mean to offend!

Absolutely none taken! :D

Karen

[Digitalgrl]

I think the key is really finding out what works best for you.

After consulting my naturopath I've been put on a zone-type diet
to control my insulin levels which are pretty wacked out right now.
I previously followed Atkins and found that it really set me up to cheat and the back and forth between low-carb, high-carb is not doing me any good. A more balanced approch is where I am at now. I don't eat any wheat products, milk or any artificial/natural sugar (direct doctors orders). Instead I use complex non-wheat carbohydrates like brown rice, rice pasta, lentils and oats.

After some experiementation with the low-carb plans, you'll definatley find one that works for you.