Help -- 5 weeks in ketosis and not a pound lost!

[Mpl16]

Hello,

I started Atkins about 5 weeks ago. I love everything about the plan, the food, the science, softer skin, better sleep, improved mood, etc., but I am a 5'4" woman weighing 175 pounds and have wavered between 175 and 174 lbs this entire time! The measuring tape has not budged either.

I thought I would be blissfully melting away by now! I have been in ketosis the entire time, net carbs under 21 grams, keep my calories under 1500, and do a short HIIT and resistance workout 5 days a week.

I am praying that the weight or fat loss (I'll take anything!) will kick in any minute. Am I deluding myself?

Mpl16

[Liz53]

Welcome to the forums. I'm sorry low carb (Atkins) does not appear to be working for you.

You say you are eating 21 NET carbs per day. Ketosis usually requires one to be in the range of 20-50 TOTAL (not NET) carbs per day. Can you tell us what you are eating, how many total carbs per day? Also, how many fat grams and how many protein grams? The more specific you can be about what you eat (amounts are helpful), the more helpful we may be able to be.

What books have you read?

Tell us more and we may be able to figure out how to get you losing.

[Mpl16]

Hi Liz,

Books you ask? Good calories, Bad calories; why we get fat; new Atkins for a new you; art & science of lc living; cholesterol clarity; wheat belly; big fat surprise; Keto clarity; eat fat get thin; always hungry?; obesity Code (and dr. Fung's blog); fast diet; world turned upside down; insulin resistance solution; many low carb cookbooks.

Average protein 77g, average carbs 30 (total not net); average fiber 12; average fat 110.

Typical days menu: coffee with splash of unsweetened hemp milk; 2 eggs in coconut oil with cooked kale; sardines with greens, 3 mini peppers, olive oil vinegrette and 1/2 avocado; 1/4 cup nuts; 4 oz pork chop, chicken with skin, steak, fish or other protein; sautéed spinach or cauliflower in olive oil; 2 oz very hard artisan cheese

I test as often as I can afford to with a blood ketone test that says I'm 1 to 1.7 in ketosis.

I know Dr.Fung feels the only thing left is fasting, but I feel like I should at least have lost some weight and plateaued before having to fast.

Any help is appreciated!

Mpl16

[Seejay]

How long is the short HIIT workout?

Any medications?

What's your LBM? Could you be a person with really heavy bones and dense muscle, such that your weight is heavy but not that overfat?

I think you might be confusing the body a little bit with your food program, which is set up for all ketones all the time, with minimal protein and fat. And then contrasted with 5 days of HIIT, which is 65% carb burning and glycogen depleting. So you might be demanding more glycogen than your diet is providing, so the body says, whoa, stressful.

You could try eating more protein or fat to fuel frequent HIIT sessions. Or do a mix of 2 days of HIIT and 3 days lower intensity to let glycogen have more time to fill up with your existing food program.

[Liz53]

Thanks for providing detailed info about your diet. I don't see anything that looks egregiously non low carb. The only possibilities that I see to cut would be the nuts and/or the cheese. I seem to tolerate cheese fine, but some here have great difficulty with dairy products. The real problem with nuts seems to be portion control but if you are eating only 1/4 cup per day, I doubt that would be enough to halt weight loss.

Did you have a diuretic effect at the beginning of the diet?

Other than that, yeah, fasting might be the next step. Fasting does not have to be onerous. It can be as simple as skipping breakfast - do not eat between dinner one night and lunch the following day.

Maybe others will have some better ideas....

[Mpl16]

HI Seejay,

Thanks for responding! I'm kinda embarrassed to tell you my HIIT is only 10 minutes based on a study I read about the benefits (not weight loss) of a minimal HIIT workout. Do you think that makes a difference? Happy to cut that back!

Also I have a small frame and my dr. Wants me to lose weight, so I don't think I'm near a healthy BMI. I am primarily pear shaped with a increasing abdominal budge as I've reached menopause. I'm sure I have heavy thigh muscles from hauling my 175 lbs around, but LOTS of adipose fat and I feel like lc should really help me access those fat stores for burning.

Not sure what LBM is?

I'm on a low dose of linsoprin for bp and would love to improve enough to ditch that. Stopped taking Prozac 3 weeks ago with no detrimental effect except I am super bummed about this program not working.

Does this alter your advice?

Mpl16

[GreekRibs]

This is a frequent type of complaint from new posters and I always say start a journal on here in the Boot Camp / Journal thread and list your daily food intake. It's virtually impossible to provide advice without seeing intake over a period of time.
Having said that, your fat intake seems a bit high. I'm all for high healthy fat, but yours might be high high. Like previous poster says, Nuts/cheese can be problems for some.
Also HIIT is a hella workout, harder even than running. Can you consider a tamer exercise at least when you're only five weeks in?
Hope you stick around, start a journal and find a way to make this wonderful woe work for you. Good luck!

[Mpl16]

Thanks for providing detailed info about your diet. I don't see anything that looks egregiously non low carb. The only possibilities that I see to cut would be the nuts and/or the cheese. I seem to tolerate cheese fine, but some here have great difficulty with dairy products. The real problem with nuts seems to be portion control but if you are eating only 1/4 cup per day, I doubt that would be enough to halt weight loss.

Did you have a diuretic effect at the beginning of the diet?

Other than that, yeah, fasting might be the next step. Fasting does not have to be onerous. It can be as simple as skipping breakfast - do not eat between dinner one night and lunch the following day.

Maybe others will have some better ideas....


Thanks, Liz. Worth a try. No big diuretic loss at the beginning, but my linsoprin has a diuretic so maybe that's why.

Just feeling very whiney that most folks on this form and all the success stories in the books seem to be able to eat all the permitted stuff they want and still lose weight/fat!

I would conclude that maybe I'm not insulin resistant but overweight/borderline obese and high bp makes me inclined to think I'd benefit from lc. I'd been maintaining 175 lbs for years on lf high whole grains and beans. Couldn't lose unless I dropped to 1200 calories a day which is super uncomfortable for me. I was hoping that would be different on lc.

Mpl16

[Nancy LC]

Are you taking any medications, NSAIDs, etc? How's your thyroid? Exercise most likely isn't going to help you lose weight, but it'll make you healthier. For some people, exercising can actually slow weight loss. So be sure you don't over-do it.

Most medications seem to cause weight gain or hamper weight loss. Menopause is it's own thing. Food intolerances, menopause, all these things make it much harder. Anyway, the point is you've got to try things out and challenge yourself to see what works and what doesn't. I'm still working on that myself.

[Mpl16]

This is a frequent type of complaint from new posters and I always say start a journal on here in the Boot Camp / Journal thread and list your daily food intake. It's virtually impossible to provide advice without seeing intake over a period of time.
Having said that, your fat intake seems a bit high. I'm all for high healthy fat, but yours might be high high. Like previous poster says, Nuts/cheese can be problems for some.
Also HIIT is a hella workout, harder even than running. Can you consider a tamer exercise at least when you're only five weeks in?
Hope you stick around, start a journal and find a way to make this wonderful woe work for you. Good luck!

Hi GreekRibs,

Thanks for responding. Any suggestions on a number of fat grams you think would work?

Also, my HIIT is a 10 minute session with only 1 minute total HI. Think that still makes a difference?

I'll check out the boot camp journal site. I wonder if there is a way to export the MyFitnessPal journal to it? I prefer it to the Atkins app because I can track so many other nutrients and calories.

Thanks again and congrats on your stats! Wish they were mine.
Mpl16

[Liz53]

Yeah, it is surprising to me that you've not been able to lose even just a little. However if you are NOT insulin resistant, then Low Fat may work just as well for you.

I would say the success stories are the cream of the crop. Also, some are able to maintain, others are not. There are lots of stories on this board - some seem to go directly to goal in a straight line fashion, others struggle, some never make it.

The body is sometimes mysterious about what weight it feels it has to defend. Some of us simply have goals lower than what the body seems to want and that can be frustrating. However, as you no doubt know from all your reading, the benefits of low carb go way beyond weight loss. In fact, some here consider improved health to be the true goal, with weight loss as a side effect.

I hope you won't give up.

Edited to add:

Just feeling very whiney that most folks on this form and all the success stories in the books seem to be able to eat all the permitted stuff they want and still lose weight/fat!

That is probably true for most men and some young women. It is not at all true for the bulk of women here, particularly those who are peri-menopausal or menopausal. I'd say most women have to keep an eye to calories as well as carbs.

Greek Ribs thinks you may be a bit high in fat. She may be right, she may be wrong. I do best with 100-120 g fat per day, but everyone seems to have a sweet spot. It may be worth experimenting - taking it lower and if that doesn't work, take it higher (which works brilliantly for some).

Everyone here is an individual and it is our job to experiment enough to figure out works best for our particular bodies.

[cotonpal]

Having said that, your fat intake seems a bit high. I'm all for high healthy fat, but yours might be high high. Like previous poster says, Nuts/cheese can be problems for some.


I don't want to confuse the issue here but from my perspective 110 grams per day of fat is not high. I eat on average 145 gms of fat a day. I now fast on a 16/8 schedule. Two meals a day seems to work best for me and I am not eating anything between 6PM and 10AM. So that's my suggestion, try the intermittent fasting. You might even find you like it.

Jean

[Mpl16]

Are you taking any medications, NSAIDs, etc? How's your thyroid? Exercise most likely isn't going to help you lose weight, but it'll make you healthier. For some people, exercising can actually slow weight loss. So be sure you don't over-do it.

Most medications seem to cause weight gain or hamper weight loss. Menopause is it's own thing. Food intolerances, menopause, all these things make it much harder. Anyway, the point is you've got to try things out and challenge yourself to see what works and what doesn't. I'm still working on that myself.

Thanks Nancy,
My thyroid checks out and I am taking linsopril combine with a low dose diuretic. I'm monitoring my bp so I can lobby my dr to go off if I can get it low enough. I'll experiment with the exercise but I don't think I'm doing enough to harm progress (10 minutes a day).
Mpl16

[GreekRibs]

Greek Ribs thinks you may be a bit high in fat. She may be right, she may be wrong. I do best with 100-120 g fat per day, but everyone seems to have a sweet spot. It may be worth experimenting - taking it lower and if that doesn't work, take it higher (which works brilliantly for some).

Everyone here is an individual and it is our job to experiment enough to figure out works best for our particular bodies.
100% agree with this. Finding the right macros for fat/protein/carbs is a super individual thing so all we can do is play around with it. Everyone find their own sweet spot :agree: :agree:

[Seejay]

Yeah, 10 minutes a day sounds like it wouldn't mess with your fuel and all that. It is mysterious though. I too wonder what's going on. LBM is lean body mass. With the female pear shape fat distribution and menopause around that, that could maybe be part of it.

Your body is sure telling you it wants equilibrium with your current program.

How about your vitamin and mineral situation? are you good with iodine and D3?

[Mpl16]

Yeah, 10 minutes a day sounds like it wouldn't mess with your fuel and all that. It is mysterious though. I too wonder what's going on. LBM is lean body mass. With the female pear shape fat distribution and menopause around that, that could maybe be part of it.

Your body is sure telling you it wants equilibrium with your current program.

How about your vitamin and mineral situation? are you good with iodine and D3?

Yep, my body does not want to lose weight that's for sure! I use iodized salt when cooking and get lots of sunshine here in CA (and I just read somewhere that higher fat diets help skin to produce adequate D) but who knows maybe I need more. I seem to go down a rabbit hole when I start to read about all rage supplements different experts recommend -- kinda confusing!

[dex]

Were you exercising before you started low-carbing, or did you start both around the same time?

As mentioned by others, it takes experimentation to find where individual sweet spots are with regards to macros, activities, etc. I know that for me, as a barely 5'5", 180-ish lbs woman, there's no way I could sustain resistance training and HIIT 5 days a week on 1400-ish calories a day, regardless of macro breakdown. My metabolism would tank faster than you could even say "metabolism."

Why such frequent HIIT?

[Mpl16]

Were you exercising before you started low-carbing, or did you start both around the same time?

As mentioned by others, it takes experimentation to find where individual sweet spots are with regards to macros, activities, etc. I know that for me, as a barely 5'5", 180-ish lbs woman, there's no way I could sustain resistance training and HIIT 5 days a week on 1400-ish calories a day, regardless of macro breakdown. My metabolism would tank faster than you could even say "metabolism."

Why such frequent HIIT?

Thanks for the insight Dex,

I was on again off again doing some walking, nothing much. My HIIT has bee 10 min a day, just to preserve some cardio capacity. I'm happy to scale it back, but it's so minimal (my machine says I burn 100 calories) that I didn't think it would affect my lc diet negatively.

Mpl16

[dex]

The thing is, exercise is for fitness. Diet is for weight loss. Exercise can actually inhibit weight loss.

If you want to maintain or build cardio fitness, you would be much better served by mellow zone 2 efforts of 45-60 minutes a few times a week. They can be pretty boring, but they are much less likely to stress your body and hike up your cortisol levels.

HIIT is always short in duration by design, but it's a lot of stress on the body in that short amount of time, which causes a hormonal response that usually includes elevated cortisol. In the case of HIIT, it's not about the calories, it's about the effort.

At this point, you're probably battling both the inflammation response that comes with any new exercise program (and shows up on the scale as no loss, or even a gain) and the cortisol response to frequent HIIT.

[Mpl16]

The thing is, exercise is for fitness. Diet is for weight loss. Exercise can actually inhibit weight loss.

If you want to maintain or build cardio fitness, you would be much better served by mellow zone 2 efforts of 45-60 minutes a few times a week. They can be pretty boring, but they are much less likely to stress your body and hike up your cortisol levels.

HIIT is always short in duration by design, but it's a lot of stress on the body in that short amount of time, which causes a hormonal response that usually includes elevated cortisol. In the case of HIIT, it's not about the calories, it's about the effort.

At this point, you're probably battling both the inflammation response that comes with any new exercise program (and shows up on the scale as no loss, or even a gain) and the cortisol response to frequent HIIT.

Sold!! I was going to add 1/2 mile easy walk 2 and from work this week. No one has to tell me twice to ditch HIIT! What's yellow zone?

[dex]

There are a couple of ways to find your zone 2 range.

If you have a heart rate monitor, you approximate it by subtracting your age from 220, and staying in the 70-80% range of that number. (e.g. For a 40 year old person: 220-40 = 180 as max heart rate, zone 2 would be between 126 and 144).

If you don't have a monitor, it's basically "conversational pace" -- meaning that you should be able to carry on a conversation in full sentences without straining. You can also think of this as not needing to breathe through your mouth. I've trained with people who hate heart rate monitors and just put a piece of tape over their mouths while out for a run or ride to keep themselves in the right zone. (I'm not suggesting you walk to work with tape over your mouth, just using it as an illustration. haha!)

[Mpl16]

There are a couple of ways to find your zone 2 range.

If you have a heart rate monitor, you approximate it by subtracting your age from 220, and staying in the 70-80% range of that number. (e.g. For a 40 year old person: 220-40 = 180 as max heart rate, zone 2 would be between 126 and 144).

If you don't have a monitor, it's basically "conversational pace" -- meaning that you should be able to carry on a conversation in full sentences without straining. You can also think of this as not needing to breathe through your mouth. I've trained with people who hate heart rate monitors and just put a piece of tape over their mouths while out for a run or ride to keep themselves in the right zone. (I'm not suggesting you walk to work with tape over your mouth, just using it as an illustration. haha!)

Ah, got it. The good ole conversation rate. Thanks!

[cotonpal]

There are a couple of ways to find your zone 2 range.

If you have a heart rate monitor, you approximate it by subtracting your age from 220, and staying in the 70-80% range of that number. (e.g. For a 40 year old person: 220-40 = 180 as max heart rate, zone 2 would be between 126 and 144).

If you don't have a monitor, it's basically "conversational pace" -- meaning that you should be able to carry on a conversation in full sentences without straining. You can also think of this as not needing to breathe through your mouth. I've trained with people who hate heart rate monitors and just put a piece of tape over their mouths while out for a run or ride to keep themselves in the right zone. (I'm not suggesting you walk to work with tape over your mouth, just using it as an illustration. haha!)

I just posted this in my journal:

"Yesterday I received my Fitbit Charge HR, a replacement for my Fitbit Charge. HR stands for heart rate. My Charge was still under warranty but the battery was no longer holding a charge so they sent me an HR as a replacement since they no longer had any Charges in stock in my wrist size. I try not to get hung up on numbers, figuring if I eat right (real food, low carb etc) and exercise (my daily walks) then things are probably going OK. But since I now have the Charge HR I now know what my heart rate is, my resting heart rate and my heart rate during my walks, and it all look good for an unathletic old woman (age 67). My resting heart rate is 63 and my heart rate during my walks is in the target range, averaging 70% of maximum, or 108 beats per minute. My pace is fairly steady over the entire walk, even with a small dog who can get distracted and slow down the pace, something I don't let him do too often. I guess I am doing OK. I realize that the Fitbit may not be entirely accurate (I believe someone recently sued them about this) but I'm figuring its in the ball park which is good enough for me. Ain't technology grand!"

This is just the pace that I fell into naturally. It's nice to know that I'm in the range. When it comes to exercise I am not a fan of pushing myself. HIIT has always sounded like something I would rather ignore. I highly recommend walking as a great way to get exercise that can even be enjoyable or at least I find it so.

Jean

[Mpl16]

I just posted this in my journal:

"Yesterday I received my Fitbit Charge HR, a replacement for my Fitbit Charge. HR stands for heart rate. My Charge was still under warranty but the battery was no longer holding a charge so they sent me an HR as a replacement since they no longer had any Charges in stock in my wrist size. I try not to get hung up on numbers, figuring if I eat right (real food, low carb etc) and exercise (my daily walks) then things are probably going OK. But since I now have the Charge HR I now know what my heart rate is, my resting heart rate and my heart rate during my walks, and it all look good for an unathletic old woman (age 67). My resting heart rate is 63 and my heart rate during my walks is in the target range, averaging 70% of maximum, or 108 beats per minute. My pace is fairly steady over the entire walk, even with a small dog who can get distracted and slow down the pace, something I don't let him do too often. I guess I am doing OK. I realize that the Fitbit may not be entirely accurate (I believe someone recently sued them about this) but I'm figuring its in the ball park which is good enough for me. Ain't technology grand!"

This is just the pace that I fell into naturally. It's nice to know that I'm in the range. When it comes to exercise I am not a fan of pushing myself. HIIT has always sounded like something I would rather ignore. I highly recommend walking as a great way to get exercise that can even be enjoyable or at least I find it so.

Jean

Great insight, Jean, thanks!

[Seejay]

Ladies! Watch out for going for specific numbers. The conversation standard is best - that is, by your own reactions.

That old formula of "220 minus age" is outdated. New research including - gasp! - actual women, shows that women have a slightly lower max heart rate than men. If you use the old one programmed into so many machines, it gives a falsely high formula.

google "recalibrated formula 's workouts new york times"

[katmeyster]

I feel your pain. Last time I tried LC I tried everything everybody suggested and after the first initial loss I lost nothing for 3 months. I just couldn't believe that a morbidly obese person could follow a plan to the letter and not lose any weight -- I gave up because I don't have the patience of others here.

But I'm back and, for me, only the intermittent fasting is helping the scale move. Even on IF I can slow down to .5 pound a week -- but that's a .5 pound more than I lost before. I'm actually going to try some extended water fasts once I get back from my vacation. But I'm staying in ketosis no matter what because I keep reading more about all the health benefits -- and if I am going on the fasts, it's advantageous to not be hungry.

Fasting may not be for everybody, but I believe it's the only option that I have at the moment.

Good luck on your journey -- I hope you find the answer.

[cotonpal]

Ladies! Watch out for going for specific numbers. The conversation standard is best - that is, by your own reactions.



I don't actually go for any numbers. I just go for walks at a pace that is comfortable for me. Today was my first day wearing my Charge HR so, since I had the thing, I was curious what my numbers were and they suggested to me that things were going well. I actually already knew that before knowing my heart rate. I'm too old to push myself beyond what feels comfortable. I was more interested in my resting heart rate. Nothing to worry about there either.

Jean

[dex]

Ladies! Watch out for going for specific numbers. The conversation standard is best - that is, by your own reactions.

That old formula of "220 minus age" is outdated. New research including - gasp! - actual women, shows that women have a slightly lower max heart rate than men. If you use the old one programmed into so many machines, it gives a falsely high formula.


I'm pretty sure that's why I said it approximates a range, not that it will land you at an exact range. I was also fairly sure that OP wasn't going to run out and buy gadgetry from the outset, hence the other guideline for a conversational pace, or not breathing through the mouth.

The only way to get your real individual range is to do a test to find your personal max. That's only useful if you're going to get into serious heart rate training for endurance sports purposes. There are very few people on this particular forum who are going to, or need to, go to those lengths.