69 Years Old, Soon...

[Ellis2ca]

Hello Everybody...

I found this forum searching for "what does 6-12-12" mean ? (referring to Dr. Bernstein...) I figured it meant pretty much what I read on this forum, and so I am happy to find a lot of people here who think as I do.

I will be 69 years old, in August. When I was a little boy, my mother told me to drink my milk, and eat my eggs. She said I would be healthier... and germs would not be able to bring me down. I believed what my mother said then, so I still drink my milk and eat my eggs every day. (There are a lot of people who say that milk is "bad" for adults, and eggs have too much "fat" and "cholesterol"... but I don't care what anybody else says, I drink my milk and eat my eggs every day. I see, in a buffet, that others throw out the egg yolk, and eat only the egg white... I eat the egg yolks, and the egg white too, but I know that the egg yolk has about twice as much good nutrients as the egg white, and I think the people who throw away the egg yolk are missing the best part. I don't mind the fat, and I don't fear cholesterol in eggs.)

In 1963 (that was not so long ago...) I was alone, in University. My father used to send me $200 dollars each month for food... I figured it would be about $1 for breakfast, $3 for lunch, and $2 for supper... That was a good amount in those days, but I wanted to know what food should I choose to eat, when I went through the buffet in the school cafeteria. There was all kinds of food to choose from... potatoes, and rice and beef and fish, fruits and vegetables, and corn flakes, pancakes, chocolate cake... etc.

So I decided I better read a book to learn what I should eat. I was about 19 years old then, and I read "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit" by Adelle Davis. I will never forget that I read that book at age 19... Nobody else I knew voluntarily read a book on how to eat correctly. I read it, and it set me on the right track, in the right direction, for the rest of my life.

But it had some advice which I do not follow today, such as "eat some of everything"... today, I know more, so I try not to eat BREAD and SPAGHETTI, and RICE and BREAKFAST CEREALS and PANCAKES and SWEETS and SUGAR like the plague...

But for a long long time I was under the bad influence of the attrocious Food Guide Pyramid... and so, until about age 54, I DID try to eat A LOT of spaghetti and rice and bread and muffins... I wanted to get my 60% carbs... why only 60%? I tried to eat 70% carbs...

I was convinced that Atkins was mistaken, and Nathan Pritikin was my hero... And now I think I probably damaged my pancreas in those years.

All that changed, the day I bought a blood glucose meter. That was about the year 2000. Since then, I have taken perhaps 25,000 blood sugar tests, perhaps 5 or 6 tests, almost every day for 14 years. Do you want to learn which foods are going to shoot up your blood sugar, and which foods are not? There is nothing like the blood sugar meter to tell you.

In hindsight, I am lucky that my mother's advice about the milk and the eggs was good. But she also loved potatoes and spaghetti, and rice, and she made the best and most delicious desserts in the world. I say we do not inherit diabetes in our genes, we learn to be diabetics, because we learn to eat as our parents ate... and my parents loved delicious food.

Everything that is delicious is probably bad for our health. (The glucose meter taught me that...) I learned this a bit late in life, but I learned it sooner than I would have if I had not bought that blood sugar meter.

Fortunately, my bad eating habits had not killed me yet by the time I discovered the glucose meter, and I was not yet a full blown diabetic in the year 2000... But I know my pancreas is not as healthy today as it could have been if I had learned what I think I know now, sooner.

But it is not as bad as a sick old man, either.

Anyways... to make a long story short... today I am 100% convinced that low carb is correct. I do not believe anybody anymore... I especially do not believe "experts"... I only believe the blood glucose meter. The blood glucose meter tells me that low carb is right, and high carb leads to high blood sugar, which I say is the cause of diabetes.

I am happy I found this forum.

[inflammabl]

Awesome first post. Just fantastic.

Your English is excellent. Better than mine.

[Bonnie OFS]

But I know my pancreas is not as healthy today as it could have been if I had learned what I think I know now, sooner.

Ah - the "if only" regret! I, too, wish I had known years ago what I know now. As a 61 yr old T2, I'm doing much better on low carb (following Dr. Bernstein's advice) than I would be had I never learned.

My mother tried to follow Adelle Davis's advice, but could never stick with it. Neither could I, but I couldn't be bothered to read the book. Same with Dr. Atkins - she read the book and tried to follow the advice (without family support) and I scoffed and called it a fad diet. Silly me.

Welcome to the forum.

[khrussva]

Nice post Ellis. Thanks. It is always interesting to hear someone's life-long perspective of how that got to where they are today.

It is hard to believe how wrong the "experts" were when coming up with the modern idea of what constitutes a healthy diet. Turns out, your Mom had better advice. Just by chance, I stumbled across an old episode of Gilligans Island on TV this morning and watch a few minutes of it for ole time sake. When they all couldn't fit into a cave to save themselves from a coming storm, Mr Howell told the chubby skipper "Perhaps you could go on a crash diet, you know high protein - low bread". Even a sit-com character from 1965 had a better idea of how to lose weight than the current low-cal/balanced diet & exercise advice given today.

I too discovered the benefits of this way of eating just in time to ward off too much damage from full blown diabetes. I am able to control my blood sugar without medication and I feel so much better. There is so much mis-information out there about eating low carb. It's too bad, too - because a lot of people out there never get the message and are steered in the wrong direction.

[Little Me]

Hi, and welcome. That was a great post. I am 65, not far behind you, and I learned some of those same (wrong) principles about what makes a healthy diet. You have the right idea and you are going about this the right way. Don't beat yourself up for being uninformed, better late than never!

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

I would argue the milk, though. Milk has lactose, and if you are trying to lose weight, you might think twice about it. I'll recommend some books for you to read, Wheat Belly, Grain Brain, and What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie.

Again, welcome to the club. Glad you're here.

[Little Me]

PS: I don't know what 6-12-12 is.

[JAnn]

Welcome to the forum. :wave:


Everything that is delicious is probably bad for our health. I do have to disagree with this. I find low carbing to have delicious food that is very good for us. Think cheesecake, shrimp scampi, fried chicken or fish with crispy pork rind/parmesan cheese coating, a good vegetable salad or side dish (think grilled asparagus), and many others too numerous to mention. Tonight we are having pepperoni pizza with cauliflower crust (I hear it's delicious).

Welcome to low carbing!

[JAnn]

PS: I don't know what 6-12-12 is.
The rules of carbohydrate eating on Bernstein's plan are summarized as "6-12-12." This means that 6 grams of carb are eaten at breakfast, 12 grams at lunch, and 12 grams at dinner/supper.

[Little Me]

Ellis, consider this: A lot of what you were told you should eat was said by Big Food, the USDA and food lobbyists, who have their bottom line in mind, not yours. Food for thought.

[Ellis2ca]

I am able to control my blood sugar without medication and I feel so much better..

Don't be so proud that you are able to control your blood sugar without medication... There is nothing wrong if you would control your blood sugar WITH medication... and I am absolutely certain that you would get better numbers if you would control your blood sugar WITH medication...

The medication that I personally like best is INSULIN... It scares doctors, and they always tell me I am wrong when I tell them that I am not a diabetic but I do inject insulin almost every time I eat.

But I say that everything that (most) doctors think they know about insulin is mistaken. They are wrong and the blood glucose meter says I am right.

In any case, even if you do not use insulin, you really would get better results if you would use metformin.

The bottom line is: what's your number? That is what counts... If your number is lower with medication than it is without medication, then do what is best for your body, and get the lower number.

Lower blood glucose is ALWAYS better than higher blood glucose.

I mean: "lower than what you are getting now," but also, above 60 mg/dl...

(Don't worry, you will never get below 70 mg/dl with metformin... and you will never get below 70 with insulin either... but you must learn to use insulin correctly or else don't use it at all...)

Insulin is like a gun: it can be very good if you use it correctly... but if you do not know how to use it correctly, then you should not use it at all. It is very easy to learn to use it correctly, but since MOST DOCTORS do not know how to use it at all... They are scared of insulin...

So they can't teach their patients to use it correctly, and so they don't... and they teach their patients to be scared of insulin, which I say is bad for their patient.

This is also why I say that if you are diabetic, you must always go to a doctor who is also a diabetic, and who uses insulin himself... because a doctor who uses insulin himself is not scared of insulin, and he will not be scared to prescribe insulin to his patient, either.

This is a low carb forum, and not a diabetes forum, but the two are very much related because the correct diet for diabetics is surely a low carb diet, no matter what the American Diabetes Association says... the glucose meter tells me so....

[Ellis2ca]

I would argue the milk, though. Milk has lactose, and if you are trying to lose weight, you might think twice about it.

But again, what counts is the bottom line: 100 grams of milk only contains about 4 grams of carbohydrate, and so one glass of milk (about 250 grams) only contains about 10 grams of carbs... that is less than Bernstein's "12"... and the blood glucose meter tells me it is o.k.

And besides, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and I'm an old dog... I have been drinking a glass of milk all my life, and it hasn't harmed me yet... so I'm not going to stop now.

Interesting, though, is this: de-lactosed milk will raise my blood sugar much more than regular milk with lactose. Why ? I dunno... but the glucose meter tells me this is so, so I have to believe what the blood glucose meter tells me.

[Ellis2ca]

Your English is excellent. Better than mine.

Ha ! English is my second language.

Thanks to all who wrote to welcome me. I feel right at home and among good friends.

[KDH]

Don't be so proud that you are able to control your blood sugar without medication... There is nothing wrong if you would control your blood sugar WITH medication... and I am absolutely certain that you would get better numbers if you would control your blood sugar WITH medication...

The medication that I personally like best is INSULIN... It scares doctors, and they always tell me I am wrong when I tell them that I am not a diabetic but I do inject insulin almost every time I eat.

But I say that everything that (most) doctors think they know about insulin is mistaken. They are wrong and the blood glucose meter says I am right.

In any case, even if you do not use insulin, you really would get better results if you would use metformin.

The bottom line is: what's your number? That is what counts... If your number is lower with medication than it is without medication, then do what is best for your body, and get the lower number.

Lower blood glucose is ALWAYS better than higher blood glucose.

I mean: "lower than what you are getting now," but also, above 60 mg/dl...

(Don't worry, you will never get below 70 mg/dl with metformin... and you will never get below 70 with insulin either... but you must learn to use insulin correctly or else don't use it at all...)

Insulin is like a gun: it can be very good if you use it correctly... but if you do not know how to use it correctly, then you should not use it at all. It is very easy to learn to use it correctly, but since MOST DOCTORS do not know how to use it at all... They are scared of insulin...

So they can't teach their patients to use it correctly, and so they don't... and they teach their patients to be scared of insulin, which I say is bad for their patient.

This is also why I say that if you are diabetic, you must always go to a doctor who is also a diabetic, and who uses insulin himself... because a doctor who uses insulin himself is not scared of insulin, and he will not be scared to prescribe insulin to his patient, either.

This is a low carb forum, and not a diabetes forum, but the two are very much related because the correct diet for diabetics is surely a low carb diet, no matter what the American Diabetes Association says... the glucose meter tells me so....

Metformin made so sick I thought I was going to barf and pass out every time I took it, which is what led me to a low-carb lifestyle. No way anything that made me feel like that was good for me. And considering the fact that I am insulin resistant, I fail to see how injecting MORE would help any, except perhaps with fat storage.

I don't know about khrussva, but I am DAMN proud that I control my blood sugar without medication, and have kept it in a very healthy range for over 10 years through diet alone. At 30 I was looking at a lifetime of increasingly poor health. At 40 I was looking and feeling better than ever, and my doctors would never even know I was diagnosed as a diabetic if I did not tell them. "Really? You're not even borderline on your a1c!" I still break out the meter and track myself every once in a while, and I do not need to break out the pharmaceuticals in order to get 'even better'. :lol:

[Bonnie OFS]

Metformin made so sick I thought I was going to barf and pass out every time I took it, which is what led me to a low-carb lifestyle. No way anything that made me feel like that was good for me. And considering the fact that I am insulin resistant, I fail to see how injecting MORE would help any, except perhaps with fat storage.

I don't know about khrussva, but I am DAMN proud that I control my blood sugar without medication, and have kept it in a very healthy range for over 10 years through diet alone. At 30 I was looking at a lifetime of increasingly poor health. At 40 I was looking and feeling better than ever, and my doctors would never even know I was diagnosed as a diabetic if I did not tell them. "Really? You're not even borderline on your a1c!" I still break out the meter and track myself every once in a while, and I do not need to break out the pharmaceuticals in order to get 'even better'. :lol:

Metformin gave me chronic diarrhea & for years no doctor knew what caused it! Now off the meds & doing so much better with diet alone. And I'll NEVER use insulin unless my pancreas shuts down completely. I also am proud & happy to be free of medication. I didn't start the diet properly until I was 60. Just had my 61st birthday & I'm in better health than I was at 45. :Party:

I still have a way to go before my BG is normal, but it is down to what would be considered pre-diabetic now. And just a few years ago I was often having readings of well over 200 & even 300.

[JAnn]

But again, what counts is the bottom line: 100 grams of milk only contains about 4 grams of carbohydrate, and so one glass of milk (about 250 grams) only contains about 10 grams of carbs... that is less than Bernstein's "12"... and the blood glucose meter tells me it is o.k. Dairy can also stall a person if they are sensitive to it and one of the things an LC diet does is expose food sensitivities.

And besides, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and I'm an old dog... I have been drinking a glass of milk all my life, and it hasn't harmed me yet... so I'm not going to stop now.
Gee, I'm sorry you're so old. I'm only going on to 68 and I plan on learning a lot of new tricks. Must be in the genes--my grandmother was learning new tricks until she died at 88 and my mom is still kicking butt at 90!

Also I was told that I would be diabetic by the time of 40 but I still have healthy BG readings 27 years later--thanks to LCing--and no milk products except high fat/low lactose and caseine.

[jmh6251]

Welcome Ellis2ca :wave: Hopefully you find the support that you need, this is a friendly group of people. And I have learned quite a bit from them, plus I have been doing this on and off for 14 years. This time is different as I know that going back is not an option anymore. Good luck!!!!!! I know you can do this

[Aradasky]

We are never too old to want to live forever, eating good food!

And I find what I want and tastes good to me now, is filled or slathered with good fats.

[Ellis2ca]

Gee, I'm sorry you're so old. I'm only going on to 68 and I plan on learning a lot of new tricks.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Yes, I am sorry to be so old, too... So I dye my hair, and I like Botox, and I got a tooth transplant because I lost a molar... etc.... I do everything that I can to swim against the clock... including, of course, a low carb diet, which is what brought me here...

Actually, I am still learning many new tricks... I just like old sayings too... In any case, I am not going to stop drinking my milk every day, because my mother told me to drink my milk.


Must be in the genes--my grandmother was learning new tricks until she died at 88 and my mom is still kicking butt at 90!

Also I was told that I would be diabetic by the time of 40 but I still have healthy BG readings 27 years later--thanks to LCing--and no milk products except high fat/low lactose and caseine.

I am glad that your mother is well, and I hope she will stay in good health for another 60 years, at least...

Whatever works for you, please do it.

What are your healthy Blood glucose readings?

"According to Ellis" you should try to keep your blood sugar between 70 and 100 mg/dl most of the time... I inject insulin, or I do some aerobic exercise whenever I find my blood glucose is 100, or more... This is my personal mania.... I really think that it is very important to keep my blood sugar between 70 and 100.....

As for metformin, please understand that I am personally not in favor of metformin to control blood sugar... (I am in favor of insulin)... but since most people flip out as soon as I mention that I take insulin, then, a distant second best is metformin, better than nothing (but bad for you in the long run...) if you are trying to control your blood sugar...

And the bottom line really is: keep your blood sugar controlled. By hook or by crook, keep your blood sugar controlled.

That is why I am convinced that a low carb diet is correct.

- Ellis

[Ellis2ca]

I don't know about khrussva, but I am DAMN proud that I control my blood sugar without medication, and have kept it in a very healthy range for over 10 years through diet alone.

That all depends on what you consider to be a very healthy range, doesn't it?

And if your doctor or whoever taught you what is a healthy range thinks that a healthy range is what I consider to be an unhealthy range, then you might be harming yourself believing you have kept a very healthy range of blood sugar, if what I consider to be a healthy range is correct...

so... Can I ask what is your healthy range of blood sugar?...

At 30 I was looking at a lifetime of increasingly poor health. At 40 I was looking and feeling better than ever, and my doctors would never even know I was diagnosed as a diabetic if I did not tell them. "Really? You're not even borderline on your a1c!"

What does your doctor consider to be a borderline A1c ?

What if everything they ever told you about blood sugar is mistaken?

And how can I know if what I think is correct, is really correct?

I can't, can I? But what I think is correct is as strict as it can be. It cannot be more strict. And less strict is what I think is incorrect.

The only doctor that I listen to is Dr. Bernstein, and that is because he is also very very strict... so I listen to him, and (I think...) he is right.

Does that mean I am always right too? No.

But I am always very healthy, and I hope you are, too.

[KDH]

That all depends on what you consider to be a very healthy range, doesn't it?

And if your doctor or whoever taught you what is a healthy range thinks that a healthy range is what I consider to be an unhealthy range, then you might be harming yourself believing you have kept a very healthy range of blood sugar, if what I consider to be a healthy range is correct...

so... Can I ask what is your healthy range of blood sugar?...


Actually, I find it downright rude of you to assume others have no idea what their blood sugar should be. Perhaps tone does not come across well in this medium, but this is not the first time your post has come across as if the rest of us, who may have been doing this and researching this way of life since further back than you ever even heard of it, are all clueless and really just need to inject some insulin, because you know better than they do. About their own bodies. I do not want more insulin in my body. The goal of this entire way of eating is for me to have LESS INSULIN circulating in my body. You see, I don't particularly like being obese, which I was because my body is insulin resistant. So I'll skip that glass of milk and the insulin, both of which you may be fine with, but I am not.

But since you asked, my morning blood sugar levels are usually in the 70s. I rarely see anything over 100 at any time during the day. And if I injected some insulin because I decided that I really needed an AM reading in the 60s, that would be counterproductive to every bit of hard work I have put into this entire effort. Perhaps you should save the condescending "oh, well you don't really know what is good for you." lectures to people who are actually struggling and having problems. Just a thought.

[Ellis2ca]

Actually, I find it downright rude of you to assume others have no idea what their blood sugar should be.

My apology if I have offended you. No offense was intended in any way.


Perhaps tone does not come across well in this medium, but this is not the first time your post has come across as if the rest of us, who may have been doing this and researching this way of life since further back than you ever even heard of it, are all clueless and really just need to inject some insulin, because you know better than they do. About their own bodies.


That is not why I asked, at all... I asked because we might be speaking of the same thing, and mean a different range. You wrote that you have a good blood sugar range, but you didn't say what that was. Perhaps you meant it is 100 to 140 ? Perhaps you or your doctor mean that HbA1c of 6.5 is "borderline". If we are referring to different ranges but both talk about a "good blood glucose range" or HbA1c, then we are not communicating.

I do not want more insulin in my body. The goal of this entire way of eating is for me to have LESS INSULIN circulating in my body.

I also want LESS INSULIN circulating in my body. That is why I inject insulin.

When I inject insulin, I get a lower blood glucose reading on the glucose meter. When I get a lower blood glucose on the glucose meter, my body stops releasing insulin, so I end up with LESS insulin in my blood stream.

It is a paradox, but that is what blood tests prove happens. In several blood tests over the years, my result for "fasting plasma insulin" test is always way, way down, 5 mU/l or less, which is in the lower 10% of the population, ie, I have as little insulin resistance as a healthy athlete... and I have injected insulin perhaps 25,000 times in the past 12 years (and I have also taken 25,000 or more blood glucose tests...)


You see, I don't particularly like being obese, which I was because my body is insulin resistant. So I'll skip that glass of milk and the insulin, both of which you may be fine with, but I am not.

Done. I could suggest how you might reverse insulin resistance, if you want me to share it with you... but if you think I am being condescending, then don't ask and let's stay friends.

But since you asked, my morning blood sugar levels are usually in the 70s. I rarely see anything over 100 at any time during the day.


So, great, now I agree with you: your blood sugar is well controlled. Congratulations, I agree that your blood sugar is well controlled.

Now we both know you are referring to 70 to 100 mg/dl, but you had not mentioned it in your previous post...

So, now we both know that what I think is good, you also think is good, so we don't have to debate it. But I didn't know what you meant in your previous post, which is why I asked you to clarify.

And if I injected some insulin because I decided that I really needed an AM reading in the 60s, that would be counterproductive to every bit of hard work I have put into this entire effort. Perhaps you should save the condescending "oh, well you don't really know what is good for you." lectures to people who are actually struggling and having problems. Just a thought.

I don't see why it would be counterproductive... but I also don't think you have to inject insulin if you are getting an AM reading of 70's... you have very good results already.

I do not get 70's without insulin, I get about 105 to 115 without insulin... That means I am "glucose intolerant" or "pre-diabetes"...

But I get about 85 with insulin... That is why I inject insulin. If I keep this up for another 60 years, I might not get diabetes until AFTER I am dead... (I hope I will live a long and healthy life, but I do think I will die some day... after age 120... and three months...)

What do you suggest I should do? Take insulin, or not take insulin? It costs very little... it doesn't hurt at all... it has no side effect (in the right dose, at the right time)... and it lowers my blood sugar from an expected 105 to an expected 85.

So am I right, or am I crazy ?

I never wrote "you don't really know what is good for you..." I wrote something like "I don't know what you are referring to when you say your blood glucose range is good... please clarify so I will know what you are referring to..." No insult intended.

[KDH]

YOU need insulin. Nobody is debating that. When others say they are in control, and you chastise them with a "well don't be too proud" and imply they are probably clueless and NOT in control? Without ANY IDEA? Again, that is downright rude. No questions (until you are called on your assumptions) and no discussion. Just a blanket "with medication is better than without!" type of statement. Guess what? You did not discover Dr. Bernstein alone. Others are also equally educated on his work. Some discovered all of this at a much younger age than you did, and have less damage to overcome.

You are a diabetic that cannot control your blood sugar without medication. I'm glad you have been able to find what works for you in order to achieve optimal health. Please do not go around telling others that this also automatically applies to them. It is not only bad advice, it is dangerous.

Many people on this forum control their blood sugar 100% medication free. They should be proud of that. I know I am proud of them, as well as those that are able to reduce their medications. Every step in the right direction should be applauded.

[Ellis2ca]

YOU need insulin. Nobody is debating that. When others say they are in control, and you chastise them with a "well don't be too proud" and imply they are probably clueless and NOT in control? Without ANY IDEA? Again, that is downright rude. No questions (until you are called on your assumptions) and no discussion. Just a blanket "with medication is better than without!" type of statement. Guess what? You did not discover Dr. Bernstein alone. Others are also equally educated on his work. Some discovered all of this at a much younger age than you did, and have less damage to overcome.

You are a diabetic that cannot control your blood sugar without medication. I'm glad you have been able to find what works for you in order to achieve optimal health. Please do not go around telling others that this also automatically applies to them. It is not only bad advice, it is dangerous.

Many people on this forum control their blood sugar 100% medication free. They should be proud of that. I know I am proud of them, as well as those that are able to reduce their medications. Every step in the right direction should be applauded.

And so who are YOU to be shouting at me, for no reason at all?

I apologized, if I insulted you, which I didn't...

So please stop shouting and calm down, and don't scold me because I didn't say anything so horrible for you to blow up and scream at me twice, in this manner... You are not my teacher or anybody to scream at me.

I am NOT a diabetic, and if my taking insulin shocks you, that is good. I did not tell anybody to do what I do. This is a forum, a place for discussion, a place for ideas to be discussed, and not a place for a dictator like you to scream and yell at me and tell everybody how nasty I am, because I said that medication is a good thing if it brings your blood glucose down. If you don't like what I said, say it, but say it politely.

So stop it.

[Aradasky]

Ellis, do you ever have trouble with hypoglycemia or have you discovered the magic amount of insulin to the meal you are having. Do you only inject at mealtime? Have you been diagnosed as pre-diabetes? How do you get your insulin if not prescribed? Or is it? Really curious as you said the docs tell you you are doing the wrong thing with it. Why don't you like metaformin? I know others who are doing very well with it and are also actually losing the belly fat that can cause diabetes.
I am not familiar with insulin, does the injected insulin leave the body faster than the body's own insulin and if not, why the "advantage" of injected insulin? Are you actually eating low carb and if yes, how many carbs a day do you allow yourself, the 6-12-12 level? You just started eating this way, how do you like it? Many of us are eating less than 20 net carbs (carbs minus fiber) a day and doing well.
I also was a type 2 diabetic, had not had to start meds but was well on my way when I started LC. I now have a fasting BG of 70 to 80 and my HbA1C was 5 at the last test. I feel like I will be here with this way of eating, for the rest of my long life. I am 65 and also expect to live to be 120.

Can you please list a daily menu? I am curious!

[Bonnie OFS]

I now have a fasting BG of 70 to 80 and my HbA1C was 5 at the last test. I feel like I will be here with this way of eating, for the rest of my long life. I am 65 and also expect to live to be 120.

Aradasky, you're one of my role models! After I quit Metformin (nasty stuff for me!) my FBG was running from 130 to 150. Now its 95 to 105. Progress! And I'm not quitting. :)

I plan on getting down to the 70 to 80 range before long. I'm 61 - I'll sing Happy Birthday to you at your 120th party. :bday:

[KDH]

And so who are YOU to be shouting at me, for no reason at all?

I apologized, if I insulted you, which I didn't...

So please stop shouting and calm down, and don't scold me because I didn't say anything so horrible for you to blow up and scream at me twice, in this manner... You are not my teacher or anybody to scream at me.

I am NOT a diabetic, and if my taking insulin shocks you, that is good. I did not tell anybody to do what I do. This is a forum, a place for discussion, a place for ideas to be discussed, and not a place for a dictator like you to scream and yell at me and tell everybody how nasty I am, because I said that medication is a good thing if it brings your blood glucose down. If you don't like what I said, say it, but say it politely.

So stop it.

You did not apologize. You said "I didn't say that". You not only did tell a member they should not be proud of their control, and that extra insulin would be good, you went on to lecture others, including myself, on how we have no idea if our blood sugar is under control, when in fact, you had no clue. Perhaps you don't see the patronizing condescension in such statements. Or the danger in somebody taking you seriously. Apparently you aren't up for as much "discussion" as you claim, as anybody daring to call you out on such utter nonsense is a "screaming, yelling dictator".

A discussion is when your response to somebody saying they have achieved control is "Really? What are your blood sugar/a1c levels? I find I can only keep mine in such-and-such range by taking insulin." See? Ask what they consider normal. Add what works for you. Start discussion. "you don't know what you don't know, I know because I read Dr. Bernstein!" is insufferable, and not a discussion.

And of course, all non-diabetics require additional injected insulin to keep their blood sugar in check. I can't imagine why ANYBODY would imagine you are diabetic. That's just ludicrous, naturally.

[Ellis2ca]

Ellis, do you ever have trouble with hypoglycemia or have you discovered the magic amount of insulin to the meal you are having

There is no "magic amount" of insulin. ]there is a correct amount, and
a right time to take it. (I take a dose of Humulin R just before eating almost every meal, or soon after eating...)

The dose that I take is always LESS THAN A LETHAL DOSE... I have determined that 10 units Humulin R without eating might be a lethal dose (because I have gotten to 40's and maybe it might have gone down to 15... I don't know... and 5 units Humulin R without eating is not a lethal dose, for me because it will not take me below 60 mg/dl.

A correct amount is an amount that takes me in the right direction, hopefully to or about 70 to 85 mg/dl. 5 iu never takes me below 60, and when I have taken my blood sugar to 50 on purpose, I am wide awake and perfectly able to function and think and write... I say that 50 mg/dl is "mild hypo-glycemia" because that is wher I start to feel a buzz, and a bit dizzy... However, it is also a healthy place to be, because it gives us certain health benefits which I might discuss some other day.

a lethal dose is an amount of insulin which might make blood glucose drop below 20 mg/dl.. Our body has counter hypo glycemia hormones that decompose some protein, but these hormones are not always present in the body of a diabetic, since the pancreas is shot for both insulin and glucagon. Adrenalin and cortisol are other hormones that counter a severe drop in blood sugar, but it is like the fire department that must destroy something in order to save something else... we can't have that emergency response too many times before we have caused other damage.

I NEVER have any problem with hypoglycemia, unless I forget to eat, which happened a few times when I was learning to use insulin... no doctor in the world taught me to use insulin because every doctor who knew I was using insulin said I was going to harm myself immensely... which never happened...

I continued to use insulin, because the blood glucose meter told me that I was getting much better results than not using insulin. I began with "0 or 1 or 2 or 3 units of insulin" BEFORE eating, and "1 or 2 units of Humulin R after eating, if necessary"... I did not get any help from doctors because most doctors have never injected insulin one time in their life, and thus all they know about insulin is the misinformation that they learned in school or in books or in bad articles about how many mice die with insulin. So they do not know how to use insulin... and most doctors are scared of insulin because they assume that when you inject insulin, you will become resistant to insulin, or you will get brain damage from hypoglycemia, or your pancreas will stop making insulin forever... all, not tgrue.....

My worst hypoglycemia incident occurred when I was taking both fast-acting short-duration (Humulin "R") and also long-duration slow-acting (Lantus)... and I sat down at a computer to anwer e-mails, and I forgot to eat... when I noticed I was hypo (a buzz... feel weak... feel dizzy...) I ran to the kitchen, but before eating I tested my blood glucose... it was about 30 mg/dl... (so now I know that I do not black out at 30 mg/dl... but I don't ever want to go that low again, unless I have an assistant with me...)


Do you only inject at mealtime?

Yes, only when I am going to eat, or soon after I have eaten. Dr. Bernstein injects about an hour before he knows he is going to eat. I would do that too, but it is too difficult and too much planning for me.


Have you been diagnosed as pre-diabetes?!

No, I have never consulted a diabetes doctor. I am my own doctor, and I am my only patient. And yes, I am definitely pre-diabetes, if by that you mean not full blown diabetes. I call myself a "future diabetic" but I also think that future might never arrive because of what I do to stop from it arriving.

One doctor wrote to tell me that I am causing diabete to happen in my body, and I asked the doctor to please explain HOW am I going to become a diabetic if my blood glucose is at 90 ? What exactly is the harm that I am causing to my body? That my pancreas stops producing insulin -- wrong... my pancreas still produces insulin, better than ever...That I am causing insulin resistance --- wrong... when I inject insulin, the amount of insulin circulating in my blood stream is LESS than if I do not inject insulin.

There is a blood test called "fasting plasma insulin" test... I am in the lower 10% of the population ( 5 mU/l or less) and insulin resistance starts at 12 mU/l)


How do you get your insulin if not prescribed? Or is it? !

No, it is not prescribed by any doctor. No doctor would prescribe insulin to me, because they would probably lose their license to practice... Every doctor learns the same mistakes. On the contrary, a few doctors consult with me about their diabetes.

Fortunately, I do not need a prescriptin to buy Humulin R or Lantus, in Mexico or in Panama.

You do not need a prescription to buy Humulin R in the United States, either.

Really curious as you said the docs tell you you are doing the wrong thing with it.

Doctors say many things that are not true, especially about insulin. It is etched in steel tin their mind that insulin is very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs, because it is true that many people have died because they used insulin incorrectly... but this is because the doctors did not teach their patients how to use insulin correctly. You cannot take insulin on a fixed formula, as many doctors think is correct. "X units in the morning and Y units before going to sleep." Completely wrong.

Lantus is easier for a doctor to prescribe because the patient does not have to THINK, and there starts the problem.

In any case... if you are a diabetic... you should always go to a diabetes doctor who is also a diabetic himself... ]Ther is no substitute for lusing insulin without using insulin. It cannot be learned in books.



Why don't you like metaformin? I know others who are doing very well with it and are also actually losing the belly fat that can cause diabetes.

I don't like metformin because it does not stop the pancreas from releasing insulin..,. it makes the insulin that the pancreas releases, more effective.

That is better than nothing, but not as good as stopping the pancreas from releasing insulin on that occasion.

So... if the pancreas still releases insulin, it is advancing on the road to diabetes, burning out beta cells...

When I take a dose of insulin, my pancreas does not release insulin on that occasion, or not as much insulin as it would have had to release.. this saves it from eventual burn-out. I probably am still advancing on the road to diabetes, but I THINK I am advancing more slowly.

I am not familiar with insulin, does the injected insulin leave the body faster than the body's own insulin and if not, why the "advantage" of injected insulin?

The insulin that I inject is identical to Human Insulin. I do not know how soon it leaves the body, but I suppose it is similar to natural human insulin. But the importance of injuecting insulin is that I spare my pancreas from releasing insulin on that occasion.,.. by now, that is more than 25,000 times.. I also spare my circulatory system all the sugar that it would have had, and my kidneys all the sugar that it would have had to mop away, and my nervous system all the sugar that would have snuffed out some neurons, etc.

It costs very little... it does not hurt at all... it has no bad side effect (if I do not get extreme hypo-glycemia, which I have only gotten the one time in my life that I mentioned above...) and... it probably gives me many benefits in the long run. So I cannot stop, even if most doctors think I am nuts.

Are you actually eating low carb and if yes, how many carbs a day do you allow yourself, the 6-12-12 level?

Yes, I am actually eating low carbs... mostly... sometimes I eat rice or potatoes or chocolate ice cream, etc. I know exactly what I am eating that is BAD for me, and when I must eat something bad, I try to eat not too much of it... "TWICE OF HE GOOD, and HALF OF THE BAD" but actually I think I eat four times as much of the good (chicken, fish, eggs, cheese, yoghurt, vegetables) and only one fourth of the bad (spaghetti, corn, potatoes, chocolate ice cream, bread, cereals, candies, and SUGAR...)

Beans and nuts and fruits are severely restricted, but I eat them with good measure...

You can eat anything, if you can keep your blood sugar between 70 and 100 AFTER you eat... that is why I cannot eat what I wrote above I cannot eat.

You just started eating this way, how do you like it? Many of us are eating less than 20 net carbs (carbs minus fiber) a day and doing well.

No, I didn't just start eating this way... I have been eating this way for about 12 years, since I bought a blood glucose meter and started to test my blood sugar, and I discovered that EVERYTHING I HAD EVER LEARNED about what is supposed to be GOOD for me, was exactly upside down.

The Food Guide Pyramid is (was) shameful... a disgrace... The U.S.D.A.
should apologize to Americans and to the world for the harm they caused with that terrible bad advice to the world.

I also was a type 2 diabetic, had not had to start meds but was well on my way when I started LC. I now have a fasting BG of 70 to 80 and my HbA1C was 5 at the last test. I feel like I will be here with this way of eating, for the rest of my long life. I am 65 and also expect to live to be 120.

Your fasting blood sugar is perfect, but be careful, also important is your blood sugar AFTER you have eaten, beause it stays UP and harms you for an hour or two. Start to check your blood sugar about 30 minutes AFTER you have eaten, and if it is higher than 100 mg/dl, take some action to bring it down.

The fastest way to lower a high blood sugar is to do 5 minutes of aerobic exercise, rest 5 minutes, and then do another 5 minutes of aerobic exercise.

Can you please list a daily menu? I am curious!

I will tell you everything that I think is GOOD and everything that I THINK is BAD:

GOOD: CHICKEN FISH EGGS CHEESE YOGHURT AND VEGETABLES

NOT SO BAD, GOOD IN SMALL AMOUNT: FRUITS, BEANS, AND NUTS

BAD: SPAGHETTI, PIZZA, POTATOES, CORN, BREAD, CEREALS, CANDIES, DRIED FRUITS, SUGAR.

FRUTS ARE GOOD BUT FRUITS ARE BAD, EAT WITH CARE... FRUIT JUICE IS OUT, VERY BAD... DRINK VERY SMALL GLASS OF FRUIT JUICE, IF AT ALL...

BEANS HAVE GOOD FIBER AND PROTEIN, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A LOT OF CARB, EAT WITH CARE...

NUTS HAVE GOOD OILS, BUT ALSO A LOT OF CARBS... EAT WITH CARE...

[Bonnie OFS]

Dr. Bernstein injects about an hour before he knows he is going to eat.


I think you misunderstood Dr. Bernstein's advice. He is at Type 1 diabetic and needs insulin. Type 2 diabetics - such as myself - don't need insulin unless our pancreas stops producing enough. Dr. B would NEVER advise a non-diabetic to use insulin.

[Ellis2ca]

I think you misunderstood Dr. Bernstein's advice. He is at Type 1 diabetic and needs insulin. Type 2 diabetics - such as myself - don't need insulin unless our pancreas stops producing enough. Dr. B would NEVER advise a non-diabetic to use insulin.

I did not misunderstand Dr. Bernstein's advice because Dr. Bernstein never advised me to use, or not to use, insulin. I read in his book (Diabetes Solution) that he tries to keep his blood sugar at the same as a healthy non-diabetic, which according to Dr. Bernstein is about 83 mg/dl... I was getting 105 mg/dl before breakfast, and higher during the day, after eating...

I also read that "insulin dependent diabetics" who keep their blood glucose well controlled live LONGER than the normal non-diabetic population...

So I thought to myself... "Why Should Diabetics Have all the Fun?" If using insulin correctly results in a longer life, then surely it also results in better health, because they live longer because they are healthier because they use insulin.

I wished I could use insulin correctly too. There must be a correct dose of insulin that would not kill me, and that would lower my blood glucose without harming me too much...

But I wasn't a diabetic...

So I decided that I should try to do the same thing too. I decided to experiment with ONE tiny dose of insulin... Let me see what will happen...

A friend who works in a Hospital recommended that I try Humulin R, and he recommended that I try 3 units...

He told me he did not think I would have any problem...

so... I took my first dose of insulin... I expected that I would survive, but I also expected that I might become insulin dependent, and I might regret this for the rest of my life...

I had heard Dr. Schultz's tape in which he preaches what he doesn't know to be true, but he says it anyways: "The instant you inject insulin, your pancreas will never work again"... I fully believed Dr. Schultz knew what he was saying...

But I still wanted to try insulin. It didn't seem like the worst punishment in the world to be insulin dependent, if I would also be healthier and live longer...

I expected that I might get hypoglycemia... I expected that perhaps I might cause brain damage, but I had sugar and Coca Cola and Orange Juice standing by to drink to prevent brain damage....

And so I took 3 units of insulin... and nothing happened...

My blood sugar went down to about 85, which I thought was good, so I decided I would try it again...

I wrote on a forum with many doctors, that I was experimenting with insulin... more than 10 doctors JUMPED and told me NOT TO TRY IT: I could get brain damage... I would increase insulin resistance... My pancreas would stop functioning... I would become a diabetic... I would become insulin dependent... I would cause damage to my nervous system... etc...

But by the time I read their posts, I was already on my fourth or fifth day using insulin, and my RESULTS with the blood glucose meter were always BETTER than they had been in the previous year or two, testing with a blood glucose meter...

So... If 10,000 doctors tell me that I should STOP using Insulin and the Blood Glucose Meter tells me that my blood sugar is about 30 points lower when I inject insulin than when I don't inject insulin, and the blood glucose meter tells me that my pancreas is still producing insulin very well (if I drink a large glass of orange juice 400 ml (about 50 grams carbs) and I do not inject insulin, my blood sugar goes UP to about 160, and my blood sugar comes DOWN to about 110 in 2 hours) then I have to believe the blood sugar meter and I am sorry to say, I cannot do as the doctors think I should do.

So I do not care what any doctor says... I have to continue to inject insulin.
I am not ADDICTED to insullin. Each time I take insulin is entirely because I WANT to take that dose, and I want to take it because IT DOESN'T HURT, I KNOW IT IS GOING TO LOWER MY BLOOD SUGAR, AND I THINK THAT IT IS A GOOD THING FOR MY BLOOD SUGAR TO BE LOWER THAT OTHERWISE.

I have been told that there is somebody else in the world who is not a diabetic and who injects insulin... so perhaps I was not the the first or the only person in the world who is not a diabetic and who does inject insulin... But it is not important to me that I was the "first non-diabetic to use insulin"... I would like to meet that person, if he is out there, and I would applaud him if he began to use insulin before I did (in 2002) and in any case, I don't need anybody to applaud me.

By now, 12 years and 25,000 doses of insulin and blood glucose tests later... A FEW doctors have written to tell me that PERHAPS what they learned about how dangerous insulin is, which they thought was etched in steel, perhaps is not so true.

And at least three doctors who are diabetics learned to use insulin following my advice, because of what I wrote... and this was AFTER their diabetes doctor had told them to take metformin, as the "safer" treatment.

So I do think I am right, to use insulin, for me.

But I don't recommend that anybody else should do what I do, just because I do it. I am me, and my pancreas is how my pancreas is, and my pancreas is surely beat up differently than your pancreas.

I tell you what I do, and I tell you how I do it, and I tell you why I do it, and I tell you the result of what I do... but I don't tell you to do it. If you want to use insulin, I am glad if you learned anything from me... but please consult with a good doctor (try to find a smart doctor who is diabetic himself, and who uses insulin himself... Dr. Bernstein, for example...)