Keto Sticks : Are they necessary?

[yabbaranks]

Hi,

Just wondering about the keto sticks. Some are saying its great for checking you're going through ketosis, some say it's unreliable...Lots of conflicting opinion on it.

Anyway, last night (instead of morning, I know) decided to test my urine at around 1 am. It was a darker pink (the next colour away from negative). I did a little dance in the bathroom lol... YET, this morning, it was back to negative. I wonder why this is?

What I ate yesterday was all within my plan. I consumed 15 g carbs of the 20 g that are allowed. Mostly from spinach and other tit bits that are ok, ate LOTS of fat, mainly from coconut oil drenched food and drank 2 litres of water up until the time I tested at 1 am.

Do you think the water has anything to do with it? My urine was clear.

:q:

[JEY100]

Read all the posts in Nancy's recent thread, Throw Away the Ketostix...they're pretty useless.....but the title answers your question. :lol:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=459449

[yabbaranks]

Read all the posts in Nancy's recent thread, Throw Away the Ketostix...they're pretty useless.....but the title answers your question. :lol:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=459449

Haha, thanks, will do!! :p

[Elizellen]

I don't use them as I never managed to change their colour even when losing several pounds a week, but think they register higher in the evenings than the mornings.

[teaser]

I argue they're useful in that thread... but no, strictly speaking, they're not necessary.

I think I've seen Dr. Atkins suggest testing in the evening, because he said that that was when urine ketones were highest in most people. DANDR? Fluctuations through the day are normal. There's a spike of cortisol around waking, this can increase blood glucose, decrease ketones in the morning, it's entirely normal.

There's also the fact that unless you've been waking up to pee all night, you've got hopefully 6+ hours of pee built up in the morning...

[drea92]

I find them very useful.. I use them for motivation ��

[yabbaranks]

Oh wow, all very interesting and encouraging. Thanks guys.

I think I may try testing my urine tonight. I feel I'm in ketosis - I'm dizzy, mouth tastes metallic, sleepy, thirsty, light headed.

Funny though, as soon as I woke up today I had a mad spring in my step, so quickly made the most of it by doing a quick 20 minute workout - mostly weights. Now I feel comatose.

I can't fathom eating right now aswell, ALTHOUGH I still have cake in my head,...oh boy. I'm sick of eating fat, I miss juicy apples and all types of fruit. Ah, when will this day come?

I'm rambling, possibly another side effect I guess..

[Liz53]

Your body is adjusting to a new fuel source. You will likely cycle back and forth between feeling great (when you are accessing the fuel) and feeling lousy (when you're not) for days, maybe a couple of weeks as you become keto-adapted. Keep it up long enough and the cravings will gradually fade away.

[yabbaranks]

Your body is adjusting to a new fuel source. You will likely cycle back and forth between feeling great (when you are accessing the fuel) and feeling lousy (when you're not) for days, maybe a couple of weeks as you become keto-adapted. Keep it up long enough and the cravings will gradually fade away.


Thank you thank you thank you for the encouragement!! I'm gonna do this! :hyper:

[Nancy LC]

I feel I'm in ketosis - I'm dizzy, mouth tastes metallic, sleepy, thirsty, light headed.
Some of these issues sound like an electrolyte imbalance. Read the salt thread while you're investigating these issues. LC is a sodium depleting diet and you'll need to increase that to combat the dizziness, light-headedness thing. You might also need to get a bit more mag. calc. potassium if you're depleted. I think there are some sugar-free electrolyte mixes out there.

But most importantly, increase your sodium intake. You'll feel better.

For me, I always get that "taste" in the mouth when I'm in ketosis. Far more reliable than the p-stix.

[Elizellen]

I miss juicy apples ...I found that celery sticks helped to give me that crisp "crunch" feel while on induction.

[2thinchix]

hmmm - I'm never sleepy or dizzy when I'm in ketosis - I suspect it is because you are so new to it, but if the negative symptoms persist, we need to look at something else. I'm generally more energetic and clear headed in ketosis. Hopefully that will kick in for you soon!

[Rosebud]

I completely agree with those who say the sticks are useless. Furthermore, I would argue that if they are more likely to be positive at night, they are simply more likely to be responding to the fat you have eaten that day. ;)


We have had many members here over the years like Elizellen who have lost over 100 pounds without once managing to change the colour of those pesky bits of plastic, so I cannot for the life of me see the point of them. If you want encouragement, check the numbers on your scales or the fit of your clothes. :)

[yabbaranks]

Some of these issues sound like an electrolyte imbalance. Read the salt thread while you're investigating these issues. LC is a sodium depleting diet and you'll need to increase that to combat the dizziness, light-headedness thing. You might also need to get a bit more mag. calc. potassium if you're depleted. I think there are some sugar-free electrolyte mixes out there.

But most importantly, increase your sodium intake. You'll feel better.

For me, I always get that "taste" in the mouth when I'm in ketosis. Far more reliable than the p-stix.

Hey thanks! I've been a bit funny about extra salt, but will do it. Also, I struggle taking vitamins because they make me ill but it's got to be done!

Cheers again x

[yabbaranks]

I found that celery sticks helped to give me that crisp "crunch" feel while on induction.

Oh cool! I have celery in the fridge!

[yabbaranks]

hmmm - I'm never sleepy or dizzy when I'm in ketosis - I suspect it is because you are so new to it, but if the negative symptoms persist, we need to look at something else. I'm generally more energetic and clear headed in ketosis. Hopefully that will kick in for you soon!

By the way, I did a cycle today, and some walking. Got back and nearly fell asleep, slight headaches now. I think I'm ok, mind still wondering now and then to cakes...sure it'll all regulate soon. I hope...

I think I defo need to up the salt adn as already mentioned, potassium and magnesium!

Good news is this morning I weighed myself (with apprehension) and I've lost 4lbs! Which I guess is a start...

Also, one question. Wanted to know how to put those cute little tracker thingy bobbys near my avatar?

Thanks for all the help. You're all keeping me motivated!!

:)

[yabbaranks]

I completely agree with those who say the sticks are useless. Furthermore, I would argue that if they are more likely to be positive at night, they are simply more likely to be responding to the fat you have eaten that day. ;)


We have had many members here over the years like Elizellen who have lost over 100 pounds without once managing to change the colour of those pesky bits of plastic, so I cannot for the life of me see the point of them. If you want encouragement, check the numbers on your scales or the fit of your clothes. :)

Aha! Yea those keto sticks doing me head in. Not using them anymore.. My clothes are starting to feel a tad looser, I prefer this way of gauging weight loss tbh. :p

[yabbaranks]

2thinchix, it's ok I sorted it out - the ticker thing!

[teaser]

I completely agree with those who say the sticks are useless. Furthermore, I would argue that if they are more likely to be positive at night, they are simply more likely to be responding to the fat you have eaten that day. ;)




This is true, but I'm not sure how that makes them useless. Eat all that fat, but with enough carbs and protein, day after day, and those ketones won't show up on the ketostix. Yes, the stix are a possible stumbling block for some people, if they discourage somebody unnecessarily, then they're worse than useless, they're harmful. But is that always the case?

[wbahn]

Atkins himself pointed out in DANDR that the ketostix are not necessary and really only mentioned/suggested to provide something that people could focus on in the short term while they make the initial adjustments.

If you are drinking the amount of water you should be consuming, then you will have a hard time getting much more than a weak reading just because the ketone concentration is so diluted compared to what is normally expected in the population that the stix are meant for.

If you find the stix useful to you, even as just a pacifier or crutch or something to focus your efforts on, then they are useful and go ahead and use them. But if you find that they are frustrating and demoralizing, then tell yourself that they aren't the end-all, be-all and that you can do quite well without them and never pee on a stick again. It's very much a YMMV thing.

[KitsyKatsy]

I absolutely rely on the keto sticks. Knowing that eating too many nuts or vegetables will turn the color back keeps me on target with my portion sizes. Knowing that eating a piece of cake (or a baked potato or slice of bread) will throw me out of ketosis and cause me to start over again getting back into it keeps me from giving in to cravings.

I'm not actually getting cravings; I'm two weeks along, but going to a work function last week and having a big slice of fudgy cake sitting in front of my plate (and everyone else's), almost undid me. I knew I'd spend a couple of days making that little strip turn pink again, so I wore my little food halo :)

Watching a friend eating that little loaf of brown crusty bread they bring you at Outback was hard to take too, but same principle.

I think once I'm past induction phase I'll quit using the sticks, but for now, they give me "no" power.

[yabbaranks]

Yes, the stix are a possible stumbling block for some people, if they discourage somebody unnecessarily, then they're worse than useless, they're harmful. But is that always the case?

Good question. My keto stix have been the darkest purple for the past 2 nights now. I thought I'd do away with them, but they're kind of spurring me on. That said, I also don't want to rely on them, have them control me lol..

[yabbaranks]

really only mentioned/suggested to provide something that people could focus on in the short term while they make the initial adjustments.
.

They've been helping these past few days, which have been tough. Yesterday I was near giving up. That night I tested and it was dark purple. Amazing how my mood and motivation heightened on the spot from just seeing that colour. Funny

[yabbaranks]

I absolutely rely on the keto sticks. Knowing that eating too many nuts or vegetables will turn the color back keeps me on target with my portion sizes. Knowing that eating a piece of cake (or a baked potato or slice of bread) will throw me out of ketosis and cause me to start over again getting back into it keeps me from giving in to cravings.

I'm not actually getting cravings; I'm two weeks along, but going to a work function last week and having a big slice of fudgy cake sitting in front of my plate (and everyone else's), almost undid me. I knew I'd spend a couple of days making that little strip turn pink again, so I wore my little food halo :)

Watching a friend eating that little loaf of brown crusty bread they bring you at Outback was hard to take too, but same principle.

I think once I'm past induction phase I'll quit using the sticks, but for now, they give me "no" power.

Ha, I have cravings right now, however an hour ago keto stick was darkest purple, so that put me off baking a cake lol!

As yourself, will defo be ditching them post induction. :agree:

[wbahn]

You want to be a little leery about dark purple stix. Once you are in ketosis at all, you are in ketosis. For people following a ketonic diet and who don't have other issues, the amount of ketones in the urine is more-or-less constant when in ketosis (of course it varies with activity level and other things, but let's ignore that for this discussion). But the stix don't indicate the total amount of ketones, but rather the concentration within the urine. For most LCers, being dark purple is usually an indication of dehydration. For other people with other issues, such as uncontrolled diabetes, there are conditions such as diabetic ketoacidosis that result in the total amount of ketones going up high and, of course, taking the concentration up with it.

[yabbaranks]

You want to be a little leery about dark purple stix. Once you are in ketosis at all, you are in ketosis. For people following a ketonic diet and who don't have other issues, the amount of ketones in the urine is more-or-less constant when in ketosis (of course it varies with activity level and other things, but let's ignore that for this discussion). But the stix don't indicate the total amount of ketones, but rather the concentration within the urine. For most LCers, being dark purple is usually an indication of dehydration. For other people with other issues, such as uncontrolled diabetes, there are conditions such as diabetic ketoacidosis that result in the total amount of ketones going up high and, of course, taking the concentration up with it.

Ah ok got ya.

But, what if you've been drinking water all day as I have. Mine were still dark purple?

[wbahn]

Ah ok got ya.

But, what if you've been drinking water all day as I have. Mine were still dark purple?

Then I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's in indication, not a diagnosis, so there's a limit to how much credence you can place on it.

Now, it IS possible to drink lots of water and still end up dehydrated -- happened to me about a week after surgery, in fact. But if you are urinating fairly frequently and it is very pale then you are probably just fine.

[yabbaranks]

Then I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's in indication, not a diagnosis, so there's a limit to how much credence you can place on it.

Now, it IS possible to drink lots of water and still end up dehydrated -- happened to me about a week after surgery, in fact. But if you are urinating fairly frequently and it is very pale then you are probably just fine.

Cheers mister!

[inflammabl]

I keep reading people write that dehydration causes a more positive reading.

Does anyone have a study showing that to be the case? The argument would have to be that the kidneys filter keto's out at a different rate than the bladder fills up but given the diffusivity of keto's I doubt that to be true. Not saying it can't be true but I doubt it.

I suspect that people think that because A) they don't understand how small a change in water it takes to make us dehydrated and B) after a day of no exercise they see a light or no purple stick and say "Oh I must be really hydrated."

Also, I'm certain that there must be a study of keto's in the blood vs. keto's in the urine but I haven't seen it. Does anyone have that paper? I find it interesting that the ketosticks have an exponential scale and the blood meter readings are reported on a linear scale. I suspect that the kidney's exponentially respond to blood keto's. Now that's the idea that would make the sticks "useless" to keto dieters, i.e. the kidney's have a non-linear response.

[wbahn]

Let's take someone that is drinking a small, barely adequate, amount of water and is therefore urinating a certain amount each day that is pretty small, say for the sake of argument 1000 ml over the course of a day. They are also on a ketogenic diet and, for the sake of having some numbers to use, let's say that they expel 100 units of ketos in their urine over the course of the day. So their urine concentration would be an average of 0.1 unit of ketos per ml of urine.

Now, without changing anything else, they increase their water intake significantly and are now urinating 4000 ml/day. In order to have the same 0.1 units of ketos per ml of urine, their kidneys would have to be expelling 400 units of ketos per day. This begs several questions: Where are the extra 300 units of ketos coming from? Would it make sense that your body would produce more ketos in direct proportion to the amount of urine you produce? Why? How? If they were always there and just not getting into the urine (because the get expelled at a rate that results in the same concentration) then what has been happening to them (i.e., where are they accumulating in the body)?

[inflammabl]

Let's take someone that is drinking a small, barely adequate, amount of water and is therefore urinating a certain amount each day that is pretty small, say for the sake of argument 1000 ml over the course of a day. They are also on a ketogenic diet and, for the sake of having some numbers to use, let's say that they expel 100 units of ketos in their urine over the course of the day. So their urine concentration would be an average of 0.1 unit of ketos per ml of urine.

Now, without changing anything else, they increase their water intake significantly and are now urinating 4000 ml/day. In order to have the same 0.1 units of ketos per ml of urine, their kidneys would have to be expelling 400 units of ketos per day. This begs several questions: Where are the extra 300 units of ketos coming from? Would it make sense that your body would produce more ketos in direct proportion to the amount of urine you produce? Why? How? If they were always there and just not getting into the urine (because the get expelled at a rate that results in the same concentration) then what has been happening to them (i.e., where are they accumulating in the body)?


Argument by analogy, especially with transport phenomena, doesn't go very far with me. Sorry.

[inflammabl]

"Would it make sense that your body would produce more ketos in direct proportion to the amount of urine you produce? Why? How?"

Because the diffusivity of keto's is high.

[teaser]

I've seen the suggestion in papers by George Cahill that the kidneys might produce ketones locally when glutamine is being metabolized. Breaking down glutamine for gluconeogenesis will produce ammonia, this has the potential to make the urine too alkaline. Usually this is argued from the other side, that glutamine will be broken down to produce ammonia to protect against acidosis from excess ketones.

The dehydration hypothesis might be true. Maybe the ketone strips seem to work for me because I'm chronically dehydrated. But the strips are just as indirect a method of measuring tissue dehydration as they are of measuring blood ketones.

There's a stronger relation of blood acetoacetate with urine acetoacetate than there is between blood beta-hydroxybutyrate and urine acetoacetate. Differences in the ability to produce beta-hydroxybutyrate from acetoacetate, or vice-versa, could be an alternate explanation for differences in the tendency to turn the strips purple or not. I've seen the suggestion that early on, there's a greater tendency for people to turn the strips purple, that once they're keto-adapted, there's more beta-hydroxybutyrate and less acetoacetate. This has made me wonder oh noes! am I properly adapted? Maybe it's like this; early on, muscle and heart, as well as brain, use the ketones. Later on, ketones are preserved more exclusively for the brain. Beta-hydroxybutyrate is converted to acetoacetate before being used to produce energy. Muscle starts converting acetoacetate to beta-hydroxybutyrate, in effect conserving ketones for the brain. The more you are using ketones peripherally, to fuel heart, muscle, etc., and not just brain--the higher the acetoacetate, the higher the urine ketones?

[inflammabl]

I've seen the suggestion in papers by George Cahill that the kidneys might produce ketones locally when glutamine is being metabolized. Breaking down glutamine for gluconeogenesis will produce ammonia, this has the potential to make the urine too alkaline. Usually this is argued from the other side, that glutamine will be broken down to produce ammonia to protect against acidosis from excess ketones.

One of the many reasons I avoided studying biochemistry is because there are constant, confusing chicken vs. egg type debates. It doesn't surprise me at all that what the kidney's do is equivocal.

The dehydration hypothesis might be true. Maybe the ketone strips seem to work for me because I'm chronically dehydrated. But the strips are just as indirect a method of measuring tissue dehydration as they are of measuring blood ketones.
I'm not saying it's wrong just that on the face of it, it doesn't add up. On the indirect topic, ALL measurements are indirect measurements. Even taking one's temperature with a thermometer is only a measure of the thermal expansion of the mercury, which is an indirect measurement of the temperature of the tongue which is an indirect measurement of body core temperature. Newby scientists always want to quibble with the instrumentation when it doesn't confirm their bias. In fact, thinking about it blood ketones are just a surrogate for fat metabolism which may or may not be a surrogate for body fat oxidation.....

There's a stronger relation of blood acetoacetate with urine acetoacetate than there is between blood beta-hydroxybutyrate and urine acetoacetate. Differences in the ability to produce beta-hydroxybutyrate from acetoacetate, or vice-versa, could be an alternate explanation for differences in the tendency to turn the strips purple or not. I've seen the suggestion that early on, there's a greater tendency for people to turn the strips purple, that once they're keto-adapted, there's more beta-hydroxybutyrate and less acetoacetate.
Pliny and Volek go over that in their book. My reaction at the time I read it was "Meh. So?" and in typical Pliny and Volek fashion they don't address the correlations. IOW, if DETECTED urine ketones are exactly 20% of blood ketones then ketosticks are the best measurement ever. I doubt that though.

This has made me wonder oh noes! am I properly adapted? Maybe it's like this; early on, muscle and heart, as well as brain, use the ketones. Later on, ketones are preserved more exclusively for the brain. Beta-hydroxybutyrate is converted to acetoacetate before being used to produce energy. Muscle starts converting acetoacetate to beta-hydroxybutyrate, in effect conserving ketones for the brain. The more you are using ketones peripherally, to fuel heart, muscle, etc., and not just brain--the higher the acetoacetate, the higher the urine ketones?
Maybe. I think it comes down to the kindey's action. Coming back to an original point, keto sticks scale from 5, 15, 40, 80, 160, that is exponentially. OTOH, blood ketones scale linearly. This means the two curves have different shapes and hence different physics.

[wbahn]

"Would it make sense that your body would produce more ketos in direct proportion to the amount of urine you produce? Why? How?"

Because the diffusivity of keto's is high.

But ketones are primarily the result of fat metabolism. So you seem to be saying that if you drink enough water to produce four times as much urine that you are going to metabolize four times as much fat so as to produce four times as many ketones in order to keep the ketone concentration in the urine the same. I just don't see that as making sense.

[inflammabl]

"So you seem to be saying that if you drink enough water to produce four times as much urine that you are going to metabolize four times as much fat"

I never said that.

[wbahn]

"So you seem to be saying that if you drink enough water to produce four times as much urine that you are going to metabolize four times as much fat"

I never said that.

Okay, so where are all the additional ketos coming from then? I don't see "Because the diffusivity of keto's is high." as being a reasonable explanation.

Would you agree that, in steady state, a person will be eliminating keto's, on average, at the rate they are producing them?

Would you agree that the rate at which a person is producing keto's is going to be largely independent of the of the amount of water they are consuming, all other things being kept equal?

Would you agree that the primary means of eliminating keto's is via the urine, all other things being equal?

Would you agree that the amount of urine a person produces is going to be highly dependent on the amount of water they are consuming, all other things being kept equal?

Assuming, for the moment, that each of the above premises is by and large valid, would it not follow that the average concentration of ketones in the urine is going to be highly dependent on the amount of water that a person is consuming, all other things being equal?

If you don't agree with any of the premises, then by all means please explain the what is wrong with it and what a correct version would be.

[wbahn]

Argument by analogy, especially with transport phenomena, doesn't go very far with me. Sorry.

It's not an analogy, it's a hypothetical example. There's a big difference.

[inflammabl]

Okay, so where are all the additional ketos coming from then? I don't see "Because the diffusivity of keto's is high." as being a reasonable explanation.

Would you agree that, in steady state, a person will be eliminating keto's, on average, at the rate they are producing them?

Would you agree that the rate at which a person is producing keto's is going to be largely independent of the of the amount of water they are consuming, all other things being kept equal?

Would you agree that the primary means of eliminating keto's is via the urine, all other things being equal?

Would you agree that the amount of urine a person produces is going to be highly dependent on the amount of water they are consuming, all other things being kept equal?

Assuming, for the moment, that each of the above premises is by and large valid, would it not follow that the average concentration of ketones in the urine is going to be highly dependent on the amount of water that a person is consuming, all other things being equal?

If you don't agree with any of the premises, then by all means please explain the what is wrong with it and what a correct version would be.

Look. I asked a simple question. "I keep reading people write that dehydration causes a more positive reading. Does anyone have a study showing that to be the case?" From your response, I'd take it that you don't have one. That's fine. Now if you want to lecture me on something covered by Levenspiel, I'll take a pass. Bye.

[inflammabl]

So I found a paper where they took some diabetics put them into ketosis then pumped them with saline. Maybe the closest we will get to what happens to low carbers.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/6/510.full.pdf
It has over 80 citations and some references that look more on topic. Any who,

Partial rehydration reduced plasma glucose concentration, primarily because of renal excretion, amounting to 384 ± 73 fimol/min or 69 ± 13 mg/min. Partial rehydration had no effect on plasma ketone bodies, on bicarbonate or urea concentrations, or on arterial pH. Partial rehydration had no effect on ketone body or nitrogenous compound excretory rates.
Okay so hydration levels had no effect on blood ketones. Blood ketone levels were brought down by visiting the bathroom and taking more saline. Simple first order reactor stuff.

Later in the paper I find this,
There were differences in the quantities of the individual ketone bodies filtered and their fractional rates of reabsorption and excretion. Thus, individual ketone body clearance rates also differed. Ninety-three percent of acetone was reabsorbed, and this was significantly greater than the 83% of AcAc that was reabsorbed(P<0.02). On the other hand, only 72% of /3-OHB was reabsorbed, and this percentage is significantly less than that for acetone or AcAc (P<0.02).
Okay. Screw it. If ketones really can be reabsorbed then there’s no point to taking this any further. For the lightest, Acetone, 93% was reabsorbed! (I assume that’s what they mean by renal reabsorption. ) Even the heaviest ketones had a significant fraction reabsorbed.

The really interesting plot is in Fig. 2. The excreted line goes to 0 before filtered goes to 0 and the reabsorbed line goes to 100% also before the filtered goes to 0. Highly non-liner behavior. Doesn’t bode well for urine ketones being correlated to blood ketones (thought so) although I’d still like to see that study.

So, hydration didn’t matter and the kidneys non-linearly decide what the urine ketones will be and have a hard time doing anything with the lightest of ketones.

[wbahn]

Look. I asked a simple question. "I keep reading people write that dehydration causes a more positive reading. Does anyone have a study showing that to be the case?" From your response, I'd take it that you don't have one. That's fine. Now if you want to lecture me on something covered by Levenspiel, I'll take a pass. Bye.

I've been trying to engage in a discussion and am more than willing to learn something from you. But it is clear that you are not and just want people to accept whatever you say as gospel. You started with a hypothetical (what you call an analogy) but then refuse to engage when someone else asks a hypothetical and just repeat the same catch phrase.

Fine. If you don't want to have a discussion, then so be it.

[inflammabl]

"just want people to accept whatever you say as gospel."
I never asked anyone to accept anything I said. All I did was ask a simple question.

[teaser]

So much for ketones as a waste product. The body goes out of its way to minimize wasting them. I feel a little silly for not making the connection myself. Demi posted an article about cancer and the ketogenic diet that linked an article that mentioned the effects of ketosis on a transporter that allows passage of lactate and ketones (the ketones reducing flux of lactate out of the cell through competition) pretty strong clue there that ketones aren't just handled by a passive diffusion.

So, another thing that might drive ketostix a deeper purple for some of us, besides hydration--reduced ability (less transporters in the kidney for reabsorption of ketones? Slightly mutated transporters? Fine tuning of ph by the kidneys?) to reabsorb acetoacetate.

[yabbaranks]

All this scientific jargon is messing with my head. Carry on though, I'll try and deconstruct the code at a later date lol ;0

[Liz53]

So much for ketones as a waste product. The body goes out of its way to minimize wasting them. I feel a little silly for not making the connection myself. Demi posted an article about cancer and the ketogenic diet that linked an article that mentioned the effects of ketosis on a transporter that allows passage of lactate and ketones (the ketones reducing flux of lactate out of the cell through competition) pretty strong clue there that ketones aren't just handled by a passive diffusion.

So, another thing that might drive ketostix a deeper purple for some of us, besides hydration--reduced ability (less transporters in the kidney for reabsorption of ketones? Slightly mutated transporters? Fine tuning of ph by the kidneys?) to reabsorb acetoacetate.

Yes, this. And…...Isn't one of the points of being in ketosis that we USE those ketones as alternative fuel for our brains (which cannot run directly on fat, only on glucose or ketones)? Do we really want to be pissing them away? NO, we want them as a steady source of fuel for our brains.

[teaser]

I can't help it if my urine turns the strips purple. I'm in no hurry to waste ketones, but since my body seems to keep doing that, I figure I might as well measure them on the way out. :lol:

High urine ketones don't mean insufficient ketones are making it to the brain.

edited to add;

Besides, we can't know, playing the home game, that people who aren't turning the sticks purple aren't wasting ketones, because the sticks don't measure urine beta hydroxybutyrate, which can often exceed urine acetoacetate considerably.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC291937/pdf/jcinvest00191-0163.pdf