question about ketosis

[dragonfly]

Hello everyone.
I have a question for you but first I want to lay out some details first.
Okay, I started the Atkins diet against my doctor's wishes. He said that I was finally getting my sugar under better control with insulin. He also told me that doing this diet would be harmful to me if I didnt stick with it. I just listened and didnt tell him that I planned to do it anyway. I am a type two diabetic that takes several injections a day and one at bedtime. The day after I started the Atkins diet I tested to see if I had ketones in my urnine and it immediatly turned the darkest color on the stick. I was happy. A friend of mine didnt even show a trace. I had stopped all insulin for fear of bottoming out. My sugars were normal. I had reading that were anywhere from 67 to 90. But by day four I was extremely tired. I had no energy at all and became depressed. The next day I quit the diet. (I failed) I am only 10 lbs overweight. I know ketosis is not harmful "But" when a diabetic has so many ketones in their body and they dont follow through with the diet and your sugar shoots up can those ketones harm you? I woke up in the middle of the night after having bad dreams, totally soaked in sweat, feeling like I was bottoming out and I was dizzy. Took my BS and it was 94. My sweat had an awful smell to it. I had never had that happen before. Does anyone have any idea what happened or had a similar experience?
Sorry so long but I wanted you to know all the facts.
Thanks
Susie

[Lisa N]

Hi Susie!

I'm a little concerned about you just winging this on your own without a doctor's supervision, especially since you have been on insulin. It's generally not a good idea to stop taking any medication without first checking with your doctor and could land you in some serious trouble, health-wise. Turning the ketostix a deep purple is not necessarily a good thing; it could indicate that you are very dehydrated instead of in deep ketosis. Ketosis is a bit like being pregnant...either you are or you aren't...there's no such thing as being a little bit in ketosis just like there's no such thing as being a little bit pregnant. It's VERY important to drink a minimum of 64 oz. of water a day, more is better. Dehydration can also explain feelings of fatigue and lethargy, although it's quite normal to not feel very good while you are going through carb withdrawal which can last up to a week for some people. There is a difference between dietary ketosis and diabetic ketosis. Dietary ketosis will not harm you. Diabetic ketosis is very serious. I would highly suggest that you go back to your doctor and let him know that you are intent on doing this and ask him to work with you on adjusting your medications as you go. If he's not willing you have two choices: either don't make this lifestyle change (it's a lifestyle change, not a diet and meant to be a permanent change, not something short term) or find another doctor who will be willing to work with you. Please don't try to do this on your own without medical supervision.

[TeriDoodle]

I absolutely second what LisaN has said. Please consult your doctor, ok?

[Spring]

ever suggested that you go on glucophage to control your type 2 diabetes? Maybe you could discuss this with him. It might be easier and safer to follow the Atkins WOE if you were on something like this instead of insulin.
Have you thought of skipping the induction phase of Atkins and just slowly lowering your carbohydrate intake while keeping an eye on your sugar levels.
In some cases it is better to slowly wade into the water than to try to jump straight in. I agree with Lisa wholeheartedly. You should not try any of this without talking to your doctor.

If you are doing this simply to loose those 10 pounds, I don't know if it is worth it. If you want to do this so that you can control your diabetes then I would go for it and find a doctor that would back me up and advise me. I truly believe that diet can help control your insulin levels, but I don't think it is safe for you without a doctor to follow your progress.

[Lisa N]

Susie...

If your doctor is hesitant to have you try Atkins as means of controlling your blood sugars, how about picking up a copy of Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and showing it to him? He may find this more acceptable than Atkins as it is specifically designed to help diabetics achieve normal blood sugars with reduced or no medication and keep them that way. Again, this is a lifestyle change, not something you do for a little while and then stop when you achieve the results you were looking for...you have to keep at it for the rest of your life. Again, I strongly encourage you to get the support and supervision of your doctor and not try to do it on your own. Those with pre-existing medical conditions should work closely with their doctors when making big changes like this to their health plans. Good luck and let us know how you're doing! :)

[dragonfly]

Thanks for all the responses. I have tried several different medications that were pills. I had one that actually made my sugar go up and had to be taken off it. The others either didnt work or would have side effects. I have been in the hospital twice in the past year and a half and there has been other times that I almost ended up in the hospital. I never had problems with my weight until about a year before I found out I was diabetic. I spent my whole life starving myself. I met my now husband and he made me start eating right and for a year I gained weight and had all the symptons of diabetes but didnt know it. I ended up losing my eye sight and had a sugar reading of 700. I can eat some carbs and they dont hurt me very bad. But when I eat bread, potatoes, corn, rice or pasta my sugar goes through the roof and stays up for a long time. Bread and chocolate are my weakness. I am going to check out Dr. Berinstein's diet and see if my doctor will accept it. The thing that confuses me the most is that my doctor wants me on a diet that is 50% carbs.

[Lisa N]

Susie...

You sound a lot like me. Bread and chocolate are also my two main weaknesses. The 50% carb is the current ADA recommendation for diabetics, but if you follow the low carb plan you wind up with more like 3-5% of your daily calories from carbs. I followed the ADA diet for several years, gained a lot of weight and wound up with my blood sugars out of control. It was at that point that I told my doctor that I wanted to try low carbing (specifically Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution Diet) to get things back in control again and he told me that if I thought it would work to go for it. He knows what I'm doing and while I admit that he wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea, he was willing to work with me while I gave it a try. That was a year ago. In 6 months, I was able to bring my HgA1C test from 11.8 to 5.8 and now I need no medication at all to keep my blood sugars at an average of 100. Needless to say, my doctor is pretty impressed with my results. Not everyone will get the same results with this and some people do still need medication, but for those that still need medication most find that they need considerably less than they did when following a higher carb WOE. Exercise is also important as it makes your cells more sensitive to the insulin that you do produce, so don't neglect that aspect of your health care.

[dragonfly]

I want so bad to be off insulin. I hate the shots. I hate diabetes. yes, I know that no one likes it. I have actually cried telling my doctor to take it away. It is the first time I actually saw my doctor look so sad. I want to find a diet that will let me have bread or chocolate. Not all the time but once a week. I am so addicted to those two things. I do try so hard to be good and do like I am suppose to. But here is what happens to me. I do like I am suppose to and eat all the right things. My sugar reading start looking better. After two or three weeks I think "what will just a couple bites hurt or what will a few slices of bread hurt. Before I know it I am out of control. Eating as much of it as I can. I check my sugar 5 hours later and it is anywhere from 300 to 450 and sometimes higher. I can eat "one" piece of chocolate pie and it will raise my sugar over 300. My doctor says he cant understand how it can go that high over one piece. One week I can eat chocolate and it doesnt raise my sugar very much. A few weeks later I can eat the same thing and it goes through the roof.
Oh, I have to ask one more thing... Has anyone of you ever read or heard this... I had gestational diabetes with my last child 9 years ago. I have read that she has a very high risk of developing diabetes because I had gestational diabetes while carrying her. I asked her doctor if it was true and he said no. But I keep reading it in different articles. Has anyone ever heard of this?

[Lisa N]

Susie...

I think you answered your own question there. From experience, you know that if you eat right, you can get reasonable control of your blood sugars, but the second you start eating things that are high in carbs or sugar, you lose control again, both of your eating and of your blood sugars. Foods that cause you to lose control should be avoided ALL the time. No alcoholic can have a drink "once in a while" and no drug addict can have a fix "once in a while" and not become addicted all over again. Carb addicts aren't that much different. Our "fix" just comes from sugar instead of alcohol or drugs and to get over that addiction we must stay away from those foods for a very long period of time, perhaps forever. There are low carb substitutes on the market, but everyone's responses to them are as individual as they are. Some people can have them without triggering a binge to high carb foods, some can't. I've always been told by doctors that having gestational diabetes indicates that you are at higher risk for developing adult onset diabetes later. This doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to develop it, but your chances are much greater than the average person, especially if you are not eating properly. Talk to your doctor again and show him a copy of Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and ask him to work with you on it with a goal of getting off insulin or at least being able to take much less of it while keeping your blood sugars stable. Read the book and follow the plan exactly (no bread, chocolate or fruit!) and no tinkering with your medication without your doctor's supervision. I think within a month, you will see big improvements. Good luck!