PDA

View Full Version : What is high insulin?


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums

Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!



tango16
Sun, Mar-31-02, 17:17
:help: My endocronoligist recently did a blood test and told me that my insulin level was very high at 32, and should be around 14. Does this mean I'm insulin resistant? He put me on metformin/glucophage. My husband read up on possible side effects and doesn't really think I should take it. My doctor said most of his patients feel much better on it and do not want to get off once they have been on it. I'm hoping to feel better, with more energy, lose weight and get control of depression. AM I EXPECTING , LIKE, WAY TOO MUCH. I've been having bad afternoon headaches, no other side effects yet. Been on it for 1 week, once a day. He wants me to gradually go up to 3 a day. I am currently taking synthroid and prevacid daily. I've heard some people on low carb diets can eventually quit taking medication for acid reflux, that would be great too.

I think being over weight adds to my depression, and depression adds to my weight gain. WHAT A CIRCLE TO BREAK! :confused:

Ruth
Mon, Apr-01-02, 13:34
....that's the other name for high levels of insulin.

Sure sounds like you've got high levels all right. I don't know what the numbers should be but I would trust the endocrinologist.

High insulin levels are often the precursor of Type 2 diabetes, so you want to listen to the doc. You don't want to become a diabetic, trust me! Glucophage works in the liver to help your body better utilize the insulin that is already present in the bloodstream. One of the functions of insulin is to convert unused, excess carbs (and fat) to body fat (adipose tissue). Your high insulin levels are definitely making you gain weight.

If your husband is concerned about glucophage, have him research diabetes & the complications - I'm sure he'll be more comfortable with glucophage then, because using this med and losing weight could prevent you from developing diabetes.

Glucophage can cause a lot of stomach upset, I've been there, done that :( . If you do have tummy problems, always take your pills with or in the middle of your meals. About 14 months ago I started on glucophage for the 2nd time and it took about 2 months for my body to get used to it but I persisted & it doesn't cause me any problems now.

So what you want to do is follow your LC plan to the letter, no LC substitutes which could set off cravings and take the glucophage as prescribed by your dr. Exercise can only help you burn off fat. Walking is often the best exercise but if you are able to run, roller blade or do more, go for it.

If you'd like to know more about hyperinsulinemia, diabetes and insulin, I'd recommend you buy Dr Richard Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. You can read some of the chapters online here (http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/)

A bit of my story: Before starting Atkins 1 year ago I was taking 5 mg glyberide split into 2 doses + 500mg glucophage 3 x day. Glyberide makes your pancreas produce more insulin to control blood sugars, but it also contributes to weight gain (the insulin factor). I was able to stop taking glyberide the day I started to follow Atkins. My blood glucose (BG) was in an acceptable range so my dr agreed to stopping this med. In Feb my HgA1c test (checks the last 3 months of blood glucose) was the low end of normal & now I've got to watch out for *low* BG so have reduced the glucophage to 2 x day. I can probably reduce it further, but since glucophage *might* be able to help in weight loss I want to continue taking it for a while. ;). My numbers from Jan 2001 to Feb 2002; cholesterol: 5.2 down to 4.7; HbA1C .068 down to .049. My Dr is extremely pleased with these numbers & so am I!

Prevacid: Eventually you will probably be able to stop taking this med. I was on Rx med for acid reflux for 3.5 yrs - Nov 2001 I decided to stop taking it and was pleased to find that I didn't need it any more :D. I can even eat spicy chicken wings just before bed and no problems. How cool is that? I attibute it to both LCing and the weight loss (about 40-45 lbs at that time). I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that carbs ferment in your stomach and contribute to and/or cause acid reflux. Considering how many lowcarbers don't need acid reflux meds since they've been LCing + the 60-75% fat content of their diets, it leads me to think that it is carbs not dietary fat that is the biggest culprit in acid reflux. (shrug) but I don't know for sure, all I know is that LCing helps acid relux.

Synthroid: I don't know if lowcarbing will help with your thyroid, but regular check ups with the endo will certainly be in order.

Tango, you are not expecting too much, but please do allow yourself 4-6 months to see good results, especially acid reflux. By following LC and taking your meds, you will lose weight and eventually have more energy. Some people find that their depression eases as they get healthier. Certainly your high insulin levels will improve as you lose weight and use the glucophage. Acid reflux will be a thing of the past. :D.

tango16
Mon, Apr-01-02, 18:49
Ruth, Did you have problems with headaches when you started taking glucophage? I did not see that as a side effect in my Pill Book, but since I started taking the pills once a day (since Mar.22nd), I've had HORRIBLE headaches, some waking me in the middle of the night THROBBING, like I had been hanging upside down or something. I called my doctor today, but he is out until Wednesday and the doctor "on call", had his nurse tell me to quit taking the metformin/glucophage until I talk to my doctor on Wednesday. I don't know if I can keep taking it if this pain keeps up, I did not get but around 5 hours sleep last night and woke up at 5am with it still pounding. I really want to stay on it and "reap" all the benefits, but it scares me of the potentially deadly side effects listed in the book.
Cheryl

Ruth
Mon, Apr-01-02, 19:29
Hi Cheryl,

Have you started Atkins? Carb withdrawal can cause all kinds of nasty side affects, including monster headaches, feeling ill, etc. If you are starting Atkins & metformin at the same time, I'd suggest dropping Metformin until you see the Dr, as the nurse suggests.

I get throbbing headaches some days, but most of the time it is because of tension/muscle aches and not enough food. I eat 6 small meals and work out vigorously (Body For Life). I don't particularly remember headaches so much as tummy upset when I started Metformin. The tummy woes were awful :mad: :thdown: .

Take care,

Debi Warne
Tue, Apr-02-02, 08:48
Hi Cheryl,

I'm a type 2 diabetic and began taking glucovance (met + glubyride) and it can upset tummy. My doctor let me start on real small doses and up each week and like Ruth said, it is best to eat a full meal -- Ruth told me that and it helped me tremendously.

I felt better when I took it if I ate protien first like chicken thighs and then took it and finished my meal (more meat and veggies). I think the protein really set a good cushion for the meds.

I didn't suffer headaches either, I don't remember that being a side effect.

You might journal how you are feeling and everything, and take that with you to the doctor -- especially if it is a certain time of day all this hits -- sometimes that helps them pinpoint things better.

You take care and keep us posted on how you're doing.

Debi

q8ty
Sat, Jun-15-02, 03:52
hello I'm a Not type 1 diabetic nor 2 diabetic

:idea: i use Glucophage 500/3 time day 1500 per day
after 24 h i novice that im crave for suger !!! why

im only use Glucophage to get into ketosis after reach ketosis i stop using this drug

also i feel that im eating some rat ,,

:idea: Why 2 diabetic use this drug ??


thanks

Lisa N
Sat, Jun-15-02, 10:02
q8ty...

Glucophage won't help you get into ketosis faster; that's not what it's made for. Glucophage is made to help diabetics be more sensitive to the insulin that they produce and because of that, their blood sugars go back down to normal levels. I suspect that you are craving sugar because your blood sugars are too low since you are not a diabetic. Did a doctor prescribe this for you and are you monitoring your blood sugars while taking it?? If not, please stop taking it because you could be making your blood sugars go too low and that is dangerous.

Cheryl...definitely take your Glucophage either during or right after a meal; taking it on an empty stomach can make you very nauseous. There is also an extended release version of Glucophage that you only have to take once a day at dinnertime. The headaches could be from a lot of things, like not enough water or low potassium or caffeine withdrawal (or all of the above). I don't remember having headaches when I first started taking Glucophage, but it's been over a year and I also started low carbing at the same time. I was feeling so bad before I started low carbing, crappy would have been an improvement so I never noticed the withdrawals...I felt better immediately! BTW...I'm now off ALL my medications and feeling great!

q8ty
Sat, Jun-15-02, 14:14
Thanks for your replay

i always carb up end of the week ,,and after this carb up day
i trying to get into ketosis its take 3 -4 day to get into ketosis with out Glucophage

after i discover :p Glucophage i get into ketosis 1-2 no more ..
i use Glucophage only 2 day max at 1500 there time day

yes i monitoring my blood suger after get up at day 2 (57.6)
(3.2 mmol)

I stop use this drug after i craving

why some bodybuilding use insulin ??
they use it after work out usualy :confused: and then wait 1/2 hour and start Drink or eat carb+portein meal or shake !!
i hear for some of them this will cause anabolic effect if they use insulin after work out but if they use it befor work out this will give them pumb other people say this will cause weight gain and fat lose also i hear from other people this will transport gulocose into musles !!!!!!!!!!!! :confused: :confused:

Thanks

Lisa N
Sat, Jun-15-02, 15:29
1,500 mg three times a day? q8ty....you're scaring me. As a diabetic with my blood sugars out of contol, I was taking 1,000 mg. a day, not 3 times a day! Now, I'm not a doctor, but that sounds like way too much for even a diabetic, let alone someone who is not. TrainerDan would be a better person to ask about the effects of using Insulin to "get pumped" during or after a workout, but again, that sounds like a pretty dangerous practice to me. Using prescription drugs like Insulin and steroids to build more muscle is a practice that could backfire on you in a big way. Insulin has several functions in the body. It helps transport glucose from your blood into your cells where it can be used for energy and it also plays a big part in fat storage. Too much insulin and you store fat, too little or insulin that your body can't use due to diabetes and you don't store fat. A healthy pancreas in a body that is not insulin resistant produces just the right amount of insulin that you need, so there should be no need to inject yourself with more. Check out the Exercise/Training forum...there may be more information for you there to help with your body building efforts and please be careful with that Glucophage!!!

q8ty
Sat, Jun-15-02, 17:49
LOOOL !!! YOU Understand me wrong :daze:
i forget to write 1500 there time a day in divid dosage mean
500 X 3
:nono: i dont want to use Insulin nor steroid i want to build my musles in Healthy way but with Some Drug Loool :wiggle: :yay:

q8ty
Sat, Jun-15-02, 18:10
Too much insulin and you store fat, too little or insulin that your body can't use due to diabetes and you don't store fat.

Thanks for post this info that what im looking for

i have to Research About insulin :read:

doreen T
Sat, Jun-15-02, 22:52
hi there q8ty,

It seems that Glucophage and insulin (humulin) are hot blackmarket drugs for quick bulking with bodybuilders, especially when combined with ketogenic diet such as Atkins, or CKD / Body Opus diet. The use of these drugs for this purpose is not regulated, nor is it ethical or safe.

This forum is for persons who seek support and information about lowcarbing for their diabetes and blood sugar problems, and for information about medications, including glucophage and insulin, that have been prescribed by their medical doctor who is also monitoring their progress.

I'm sorry, but we cannot and will not provide support for your use of glucophage for bodybuilding. There are support forums around the web that can answer those questions you may have. I strongly urge you to seek professional experience and advice before you get into serious trouble. These drugs are not without serious side effects that can be life-threatening. You're already experiencing significant hypoglycemia ... any blood sugar lower than 70 (3.6) is too low.

GET EXPERT ADVICE. BETTER YET, DON'T DO THIS AT ALL!! Try using a sound nutritious diet such as ketogenic or CKD along with good exercise and technique, and natural supplements, vitamins and protein. You'll live a lot longer and healthier, trust me.

Doreen

q8ty
Sun, Jun-16-02, 05:19
i dont know what to say after hear you :wave:

doreen T
Sun, Jun-16-02, 08:15
Originally posted by q8ty
i dont know what to say after hear you :wave: Well, I would sincerely like to see you be successful with your bodybuilding goals :)

My opinion as a health professional is that the methods you're investigating are not safe or legal, and outside of the scope of our support community here. But, I'm not telling you what to do :) If you choose to pursue using these risky methods, that's your choice to do so, but I strongly urge you to seek professional EXPERT advice and guidance for your own safety.

What we CAN do for you here is help you with your diet and exercise goals, help with low-carbing, issues relating to ketogenic diet and nutritional supplements. :)

Doreen

q8ty
Sun, Jun-16-02, 08:50
:thup: Thanks .. i know that all people in this board are helpful
and they give me good push to continue what i start

i dont want to use humulin nor steroid i only want to know how insulin work in bodybuilding and why they gain and lose fat

i know that i use some drug like Glucophage but that only to give me some motive to continue becuse its realy hard for some here at middle east eat lowcarb
middle eastern food is tooo yummy and tempting with all the desserts out there

:dazzle:
thanks for help

tamarian
Sun, Jun-16-02, 10:07
Originally posted by q8ty
i know that i use some drug like Glucophage but that only to give me some motive to continue
q8ty,

That was not just for help, it was also a second warning.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=405175#post405175

We do not want our forum to be a place to discuss prescription drugs for non-prescription use, nor to discuss illegal bodybuilding techniques.

So please be considerate of these policies. You are very familiar with "underground" forums for these topics, so please keep those issues there, and don't bring them here.

Wa'il

Lisa N
Sun, Jun-16-02, 11:27
Originally posted by q8ty
[
i know that i use some drug like Glucophage but that only to give me some motive to continue becuse its realy hard for some here at middle east eat lowcarb
middle eastern food is tooo yummy and tempting with all the desserts out there



q8ty...

The United States is no different as far as the non-low carb foods available to tempt us, there is a fast food joint on practically every corner not to mention doughnut and specialty bread stores and there certainly isn't any shortage of yummy deserts! But even just eating meat and vegetables there is a great variety of food available to low carbers that can be equally delicious. It's not hard to eat low carb, but it does take a certain amount of self-discipline. Motivation can't be found in a pill bottle; it comes from inside you. Think of the benefits of eating healthier and getting the exercise that your body needs; the results of those benefits will probably be all the motivation that you need to continue. I know that they are for me! Even if I never lost another pound, I'd stick with this because of how much better I feel and how much healthier I am. Doreen and Tamrian gave you very sound advice....people should never take a prescription drug unless a doctor prescribes it for them and is monitoring them on it. Most of these drugs will hurt you far more than they will help you if you take them for a purpose other than what they were intended for.

q8ty
Sun, Jun-16-02, 16:08
tamarian you :read2: read all my post :cool: COOOL

Thanks for advice :clap:

i will not talk about any D R U G Anymore is this board :D

Trainerdan
Sun, Jun-16-02, 20:11
Q8ty,

I see that you already heard it from Wa'il and Doreen, so I won't harp on you any more ...

BUT, I thought I was clear (and very nice about it) when I stated that NO ILLEGAL COMPOUNDS were to be discussed on this board.

Even though Dan D. does speak of his tricks to get into ketosis quicker in BO, there are other boards that host that sort of thing. This not one of them.

Wa'il gave you your second warning. I suggest you heed the warning or face being banned.

doreen T
Sun, Jun-16-02, 21:57
q8ty,

Diabetes is a life-threatening illness. It's more than just "sugar problems". Diabetics will die or become very very ill if they don't get insulin or take a drug like glucophage. They do not take it to be "in good condition". They take it so that they can live a normal life.

This is a totally different thing than taking these drugs when you do not have an illness and only want to cheat nature, and make yourself look good at the expense of causing harm to the insides of your body.

Doreen

Trainerdan
Mon, Jun-17-02, 05:14
Q8ty,

I just read through your posts on this topic ...

When you asked:

why some bodybuilding use insulin ??

If you don't know the answer to this question, or know the effects of using it, then you SHOULDN'T be considering using it, or Glucophage for that matter. It's cheating anyway.

Want to get into ketosis faster? Take your last meal Sunday night, make it high-GI carbs at about 6:00 pm (18:00), and then don't eat again, except maybe a protein only shake before bed.

Do cardio work, high intensity, first thing in the AM. Stay on a keto diet, and eat more fat than usual. Weight train in the afternoon with HIGH INTENSITY. Use supersets.

If you are as harcore as you make yourself out to be, use a 3-by-3 training program. Go until you almost puke. If that won't get you into ketosis, then you are slacking somewhere.

middle eastern food is tooo yummy and tempting with all the desserts out there

:mad: Food is yummy everywhere.

In my opinion, being a bodybuilder isn't what you do in the gym, it's the strength you use OUT OF the gym. Saying no to the desserts. Being able to do what you have to do to your body to get it to do what you want ... LEGALLY. Sitting in a roomfull of people eating sweets, and all you have is a protein shake or 12 ounces of chicken breast. THAT'S strength.

I could go on and on, but I think it's all been said already.

Cyprinodon
Tue, Jun-18-02, 14:30
I want to scare you into stopping your use of diabetic drugs. There is a syndrome that diabetics involved in high levels of exercise, such as in body building and endurance sports, must live with the knowledge of. It is called the Dead in Bed Syndrome. During the night when insulin levels are high, the body has its best shot at repacking glycogen stores. On injected insulin or other diabetic drugs, the repacking of glycogen stores that have been severely depleted due to exercise can be more intense than normal and thus can lead to lethal levels of blood glucose during the night - - - and you dead in bed in the morning.

I am the mom of a Type 1 Insulin Dependent Diabetic. I check his blood glucose at least twice during the night following baseball or swimming and I often have to wake him up to take glucose tablets and apple juice - - - what a dental nightmare!

DovieAnn
Mon, Jul-01-02, 05:52
I was placed on glucophage for insulin resistance 2years ago. I was taking 500mg twice a day. Within 3days of starting the drug, I ended up in the hospital with a very rare side affect that is rarely talked about in the health community.
I got up in the morning about 9:30, had a glass of water after kissing hubby goodbye. I sat down to watch tv and nearly fell down... My heart was truly SKIPPING BEATS! I was starting to nearly have a heart attack. In a very odd way I had saved my own life. At the time of the incident, I had been eating carmels. It raised my blood sugar back up just enough to stop the heart attack.
Scared and full of panic, I called my husband told him something was wrong with my heart. He got me to the hospital. At the hospital the doctor was un-aware that glucophage can cause less than 3% of the population to become hypoglycmic (low blood sugar). I had to agrue that I had read about it somewhere. The doctor had no clue and couldnt find it written up anywhere.
Ironically a new nurse came in the room and after the EKG was fine she asked me what meds I was on. I told her and then she said, "Dont worry honey, I know its your blood sugar... It happened to my mother inlaw too." I had already been waiting in the hospital for 3hours and FINALLY someone believed me. I had almost died of a heart attack and I was only 23yrs old.
Three hours after I felt the reaction to the drug my blood sugar tested at only 50. The doctors then assumed that during the nights I had taken the pill that I had probably become unconcious due to the pills. (explains why hubby had to fight to get me awake too) I dont post this to scare people. I simply want others to know of a lesser known side affect that with monitoring your blood sugar and eatting properly the drug can still be tollerated. In my case I only recently restarted the glucophage taking 1/4 of a pill at a time. My doctors were so scared they were unaware of the possible side affect. I MUST eat every 3hours now or the sugar level drops. My weight is dropping (-40 lbs.) and I have never felt better!