PDA

View Full Version : LOW CARB DIET AND HIGH CHOLESTEROL


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums

Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!



mom23
Thu, Feb-14-02, 15:48
OK IM REALLY EXCITED WITH THIS DIET. I'VE BEEN ON IT FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS AND I LOVE EATING ALL THE BACON , EGGS CHEESE , ITALIAN SAUSAGE, LETTUCE, BROCCOLLI ETC.. WELL HERE IS MY PROBLEM I'VE CONVINCED MY MOM TO TRY THIS DIET INSTEAD OF OUR LOW FAT FAT FREE EVERYTHING DIET. WELL TODAY I GUESS SHE WAS SURFING THE NET AND ALL SHE FOUND WAS BAD STUFF ABOUT LOW CARBING?? LIKE PEOPLE HAVING HEART ATTACKS AND EVERYTHING BECAUSE THEIR CHOLESTEROL WAS SO HIGH FROM LOW CARBING FOR SO LONG. NOW I DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK IF ITS BAD TO DO A LOW FAT DIET AND ITS BAD TO DO A LOW CARB DIET WHAT'S LEFT?? EVEN THOUGH YOU LOSE WEIGHT WITH THIS DIET IS IT REALLY WORTH RISKING A HEART ATTACK OVER?? I GUESS I JUST NEED SOME TRUE FACTS AND SOMETHING TO CONVINCE ME. PLEASE HELP.
THANKS

P.S. MY DAD ALREADY HAS REALLY HIGH CHOLESTEROL BUT I TOLD HIM ITS WONT RAISE HIS CHOLESTEROL . I HOPE IM NOT MAKING HIM WORSE

Karen
Thu, Feb-14-02, 19:29
Have a look in Low-Carb studies at the top of the page. THere are quite a few articles.

Did the sites your mother was looking at cite any data or specific, scientific studies? Or were they just the opinion and speculation of uninformed writers?

When researching, it's really important to find out who is funding studies, or if any studies were done at all.

Reading Protein Power was enough to convince me. The true facts are in how your body reacts to carbohydrates.

Karen

cori
Thu, Feb-14-02, 19:32
A lady I attend TOPS with lost 70 lbs. since April on LC. In the last three months her cholesterol dropped 40 pts. YMMV.

doreen T
Fri, Feb-15-02, 08:32
from the Drs Eades of Protein Power:How much do blood lipids come down by following this program?

We have found that on an average cholesterol dropped 44 points, triglycerides dropped 135 points, and blood sugar dropped 36 points-that is in patients with a starting blood sugar level over 140. And the average triglyceride-to-HDL ratio decreased by 2.7. We have seen people with severely elevated triglyceride levels continue to come down as they continue with the plan.However, they do make a note that a very small percentage of people may experience a rise in cholesterol levels rather than a decrease. They still feel this is not cause for concern, and explain:I’ve been on the plan for awhile and feel better than I ever have. I’ve lost weight, my blood pressure is down and my sugar levels are now normal. My most recent lab tests show that my cholesterol and LDL went up. What am I doing wrong?

First of all, be aware that you are not doing anything wrong. The most consistent finding after people go on our program is that triglycerides drop and HDL, the "good" cholesterol increases. This indicates that your insulin levels have dropped and you have stopped converting excess amounts of sugar into fats as trigylcerides. Cholesterol is a number that is composed of both good and bad fractions, therefore we don’t tend to track it nearly as close as more specific levels of HDL, triglycerides and LDL. LDL cholesterol is made up of different particles that vary from person to person. Depending on the type of particles that predominate, one is said to have either pattern A or pattern B. With pattern A, the LDL is light, fluffy, and relatively large. This pattern is actually thought to be beneficial. With pattern B, the molecule is heavy, dense, and relatively small. This pattern is thought to be detrimental. Pattern B is a partial consequence of excessively elevated triglycerides. When triglycerides go down after the Protein Power Plan has been adopted, a phenomenon called the "beta shift" occurs where LDL is transformed into pattern A. So, paradoxically, even though the level of LDL appears to increase, the type of LDL that is being formed is usually much healthier. The difficult part is that the lab testing to determine your levels of LDL "A" and LDL "B" can only be done in a research laboratory with electrophoresis methods. While we cannot be 100% certain that this is what happened in your case, the research strongly supports this view.

The most important thing is to look at the overall picture. With the Protein Power approach we look at the triglyceride/HDL ratio as one of the best measurements of risk for heart disease. An upper limit of 5 is considered desirable, with anything over that indicating an increased risk. Some measures to help bring down your cholesterol and LDL levels are: stay on the plan (some people panic and feel that the plan is causing the opposite effect), take a "no-flush" niacin 500 mg 2-3 capsules per day, increase your fiber intake with perhaps psyllium seed powder-1-2 TBS mixed in water per day, and avoid excessive saturated fats and trans fats (fried foods and margarine.)The official Atkins website has an extensive list of studies regarding low-carb diets and cholesterol. Check it out here (http://atkinscenter.com/dev/science/researchsummaries/cholesterol.html)

Elevated cholesterol and triglycerides are more closely linked to insulin resistance and high sugar diet than with fats and meats. But you're right to ask questions, and seek information so you'll know the REAL score.

Doreen

fishburg
Fri, Feb-22-02, 20:04
What convinced me to go on a low carb diet was a neighbor whos doctor put her on a very strick low carb diet. In one month her colesteral drop 101 pts (from 287 to 186) and she lost 18 lbs with no meds!!

Also the different studies of cultures like the Eskimos. Their diets are almost entirely fish and meat, and they have very low to no history of heart trouble.

I had my colestroral tested last summer and plan on having it tested in the near future and I will post you my personal results.

GOOD LUCK with your mother!! :roll:

starlite
Fri, Mar-01-02, 23:05
I had done the low-carb diet many years ago and successfully lost 45 pounds - now I've decided to try it again and I, too noticed there is very much negative information on the net regarding the low carb diet. I think, if you do have high cholesterol perhaps it wouldn't hurt to monitor it and try to eat the right kinds of fats, you know, stay away from the super bad ones like trans fats - I'm just now back on the diet and I do get high cholesterol levels very easily but I haven't had a test yet. I always get it in April or May - I'll know then if this diet is hurting my levels - sure hope not!! I've read so much conflicting info I don't know what to believe anymore, either!

irish27
Mon, Apr-29-02, 20:09
:wave: I am very interested in this low carb diet information. How do i get started, and what would you suggest to use as a guide. ie. menu. thanks

Lisa N
Tue, Apr-30-02, 16:57
Hi Irish!

Check out the quick links along the right side of the page. Specifically, the link to "Which low-carb plan is right for me". Once you decide on a plan you want to try, BUY THE BOOK AND FOLLOW IT EXACTLY!! You will not be doing yourself a favor if you try to save money by not buying the book for whatever plan you decide to follow and just wing it. Please also don't think of this as another diet...something you do for a while to lose weight then go back to whatever you were doing. For most of us, this is a way of life; something that we will always be doing in one form or another. In that respect, most diets are alike in that if you only use them as a tool to loose weight then go back to your old eating habits, the weight will just come right back and usually with a bit more and the next time you try to lose weight, it will be harder than the last. You have to change your eating habits permanently if you want the weight to stay off permanently. You can also check out the recipes and menus pages along with the link to "jazzing up induction" to get ideas for menus. Good luck!

Admin...not sure what happened, but this was supposed to be a response to Irish under the Heart disease and cholesterol thread. I must have clicked start a new thread instead of post reply. Can you move it? Thanks!

Lena gal
Sat, May-04-02, 02:49
I will be tracking my progress as I am still new. My brother and sister both have high levels and they are neither one overweight so I feel I have a double problem! Thank you for the thread
it has been very helpful. I do have lipitor initially but hope to not need it, maybe maybe not, and frequent blood test to monitor the level.

alpmartin
Sat, May-04-02, 23:16
I can add my own personal experiences to this thread. Before I started a low-carb diet, I went to my Doctor for tests. Actually, we changed Doctors, and he automatically tested for blood lipids. I had just started a Low Carb diet.

The results (6/99): Chol: 260, HDL: 51, LDL: 181, Trig: 138. The numbers were not "too bad".

Current (11/01) numbers: Chol: 229, HDL: 61, LDL: 156, Trig: 51.

The numbers do not appear to have changed much, but the ratios really have changed: Total Chol to HDL went from 5.1 to 3.7. LDL to HDL went from 3.5 to 2.6.

The diet works - for me. I am having trouble losing weight (too much eating probably & a bit of cheating), but I won't leave it because of these results. Stay with it, and do some research for your Doctor.

Lisa N
Sun, May-05-02, 07:55
alpmartin...

WOW! Those triglyceride and HDL readings are awesome and very protective against heart disease. Those ratios certainly look a lot better too! As far as the weight loss goes, keep tweaking until you find the levels of carb, protein and fat that are right for you. Fitday is a great resource to see how you are doing and give you an idea where you need to adjust. Check it out if you haven't already! :D

alpmartin
Sun, May-05-02, 19:34
Lisa:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I put up the numbers not to brag about the difference, but to give one real world example of what can happen with a LC diet.

(The weight loss should come, but I really enjoy eating too much, and eat too much.)

Dr. Atkins really is correct that before anyone starts the diet, that person should get a good physical checkup with blood work done. The before and after pictures are probably the best reason to stay on the diet, even if the weight does not come off right away.

gary
Wed, Jun-19-02, 12:07
I don't have the Atkins book in front of me but I think he mentions eating fish and olive oil fats if you want. My opinion is that you should not just dive into high cholesterol foods and eat all you want. I don't eat any bigger portions of meat than before the diet. I alternate between egg beaters and real eggs. Eat Poultry and Fish if you want. I had my blood work done before and will do another check soon - will keep you posted! :wave:

Lisa N
Wed, Jun-19-02, 15:36
Hi Gary!

Dr. Atkins does caution against trying to follow a low fat version of his program and I believe that the only fats he says to avoid are margarine, transfats and hydrogenated fats. Our bodies NEED certain fats to be healthy. Most of the cholesterol in our bodies is made by our own bodies and when we don't get enough fat, the liver makes it's own cholesterol...usually the bad LDL kind. Now, I can't say that I eat bacon and sausage daily; really more like once a week at most, but I DO eat cheese, real eggs, butter, cream, mayonnaise, full fat salad dressings and olive oil along with a varity of meats. The result? My cholesterol dropped 52 points (now at 177) and my triglycerides dropped 200 points. If you read through this thread, I'm sure you'll find that my results are not unusual, either. My husband's lab results are very similar to mine which is even more remarkable when you consider his very strong family history of high cholesterol, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Strange as it sounds, many of our members have found that it's true...you need to eat fat to lose fat. Now, I'm not encouraging anyone to go eat a stick of butter or a jar of mayonnaise, but you don't have to be afraid of good fats, either. They won't hurt you....really.

gary
Fri, Jun-21-02, 07:45
Thank you for all your good points! Just to explain a little further -I had in mind more extreme eating of fatty cholesterol laden food. Some people I have mentioned Atkins diet and I am sure you agree that there are many misperceptions about it - they think you can eat gobs of steak and eggs - all you want to eat. The first time it was described to me I was told you can eat as much red meat ,cheese, eggs, and bacon as you want and no vegtables. My reaction was are you crazy? It wasn't until I got the book that I found out different. People around me have stories like one lady went on Atkins and was losing weight fine but the Cholesterol shot up over 100. Another story a big guy lost 60 lbs and all of the sudden he suffered a heart attack. Now both these stories do not contain enough info to sort out what really happened. I agree with you that we need to eat fat - just some people appear to go overboard. Atkins says we can eat the meat sources liberally, but he also says eat to be full , don't go hungry, but to not overeat and stuff yourself. Also he does reference a 2,000 calorie count(this is all from memory - feel free to correct me). Certainly though I am on the same page as your recommendations! :spin:

Lisa N
Fri, Jun-21-02, 09:59
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gary
Thank you for all your good points! Just to explain a little further -I had in mind more extreme eating of fatty cholesterol laden food.

I guess it depends on what you consider "extreme". 65-70% of my daily calories come from fat...butter, mayonnaise, olive oil and the fats from the foods that I eat.

Some people I have mentioned Atkins diet and I am sure you agree that there are many misperceptions about it - they think you can eat gobs of steak and eggs - all you want to eat.

You're right...there ARE a lot of misconceptions regarding how low carb works and what you are supposed to eat, but...you can eat all you want to eat. The thing is that low carbing has an appetite supressing effect, so people don't eat nearly as much as they think they will want to and if they are eating beyond the point of being satisfied to the point of being stuffed consistantly, they are not following the plan correctly.

The first time it was described to me I was told you can eat as much red meat ,cheese, eggs, and bacon as you want and no vegtables.

Nope...there is a limit on cheese during induction; no more than 4 ounces a day and vegetables are an integral part of Dr. Atkins' plan even on induction, but especially as you progress through the rest of the stages. Eggs, bacon (nitrate free), and red meat are not limited. Sounds like whoever told you that had never read the book or missed some of the important details.

I agree with you that we need to eat fat - just some people appear to go overboard.

Again, I suppose it depends on what you consider going overboard. On page 228 of DANDR, it says "Liberal amounts of fats and oils are permitted. This includes butter, olive oil, mayonnaise and any oil that is liquid at room temperature. Consume no hydrogenated oil or other transfats-including margarine." Dr. Atkins does mention the 2,000 calories (pg 17 and 18 of DANDR), but it's in contrast to that level of intake on low carb versus that level of intake on low fat and the effects that it will have on the same body, not a maximum level that all should follow. There are many people on this board who regularly consume more than that and still lose weight. What is generally recommended is to eat 10-12x your body weight in calories minimum to support your basal metabolism and keep your body from going into starvation mode, but everyone finds that they have to find their own level above and beyond that at which they can still lose weight. Obviously, a 150 lb person is going to have difficulty losing weight eating 3,000 calories a day on any diet plan, but someone much heavier might find that it's just the right level. I generally stick between 1,900 and 2,000 calories a day, some days more. I think we are pretty much on the same page. Low carb is not a license to gorge yourself, but calorie restriction (within reason) is not necessary, either. Many people find that they have a tough time getting enough calories when they low carb simply because they are not hungry. I think there are very few that have a problem with eating too much on low carb, but this plan is no different than any other in that it can be abused by people who don't read the book or don't follow what it says.

gary
Wed, Jul-03-02, 08:09
Once again I appreciate everybodys comments! I have not counted calories myself or have been exact in following every guideline but have noticed a general trend. When I am not traveling for my job and at home I eat smaller portions and have been losing weight. When I travel, the restaurant portions are much larger for example there are two chicken breasts instead of one -- and I maintain my weight - maybe gain a pound or two, but don't lose any more. So for myself at least I do not feel that I can eat a higher calorie count and lose weight. Also just from a very simple formula - if you consume more calories than you burn off you gain weight. If you consume less calories than you burn off you lose weight. My Dermatologist is a MD, PHD and world renowned Dermatologist. He does a modified Atkins where he allows himself all the vegetables and fruit he wants to eat. He lost 10 lbs/month for 5 months. My body just doesn't work like that. As soon as I cheat with too much fruit I stall.

To get back on this thread - what would be wrong about eating little red meat or bacon and eggs? Why not get all heathy fat from fish, olive oil and other good fats? Why not limit bad cholesterol foods? I am an avid science reader and have seen other studies showing long term ill effects from eating red meat that involve carcinogins produced. Plus maybe this statement is not backed by Atkins data and unscientific, but I just can't accept or recommend someone to eat all they want of bacon, eggs and red meat. I just heard three more unsubstantiated stories about people having heart attacks when they went on the Atkins diet now totalling 5 stories. I say unsubstantiated because we do not know all the details about how they were doing Atkins and what their previous heart history is. One person said their friend did extreme induction with zero carbs for two years. Another guy lost 60 lbs and then had a heart attack. Not enough information to say exactly what happened. I will soon have my blood work done and will update everyone on before and after. Now have lost 31 lbs - 191 to 160.

Lisa N
Thu, Jul-04-02, 13:10
Gary....

There's nothing inherently wrong with eating mostly fish and chicken and getting your fats from healthy sources (like olive oil and butter), but neither is there anything inherently wrong with eating beef, pork and eggs. Eating dietary cholesterol does not give you high serum cholesterol and eating low dietary cholesterol will not necessarily lower your serum cholesterol for reasons that I explained earlier. I limit my consumption of bacon and sausage mostly because of the sodium and nitrates that they contain, not because of the fat content. It's been shown that the consumption of eggs does not raise serum cholesterol. It's also been shown that a high serum cholesterol is not necessarily an indicator of cardiac risk; triglycerides and LDL are much better indicators and you can have a high serum cholesterol while having a low LDL and low triglycerides and so be at less cardiac risk than someone with a low serum cholesterol who has a high LDL and high triglycerides. Everyone's level of calorie consumption that they can have and still lose weight is different and depends on a range of factors including previous dieting history and individual metabolism and activity levels, but our bodies are a bit more complicated than calories in/calories burned. Yes, most people will lose weight if they restrict their calories below what their daily caloric usage is however, with low carb the amount of calories that you can generally consume is higher than it is with the low fat diet because your body uses more energy to burn fat for energy than it does to use glucose for energy and everyone has a minimum number of calories that they can consume before their bodies go into starvation/conservation mode or go after their muscles for the energy that they need for the basic metabolic functions. In other words, if your calorie consumption is too high on any diet (low carb included) you won't lose weight. If it's too low, you may lose weight but you may also be resetting your metabolism to a lower set point and losing muscle in the process. Unfortunately, everyone has to find their own individual levels through trial and error.
I've also heard the horror stories about those who followed a low carb diet and said it made them sick (it was a diet to them, not a lifestyle change in most cases) and every time I've had the opportunity to get more details, those who had a negative experience were doing something incorrectly (no supplements, not enough water...you name it) or had a pre-existing health condition that low carbing did not directly cause, but served to bring to the forefront. Heart disease and gall bladder problems are not something that develop in a matter of weeks or months; they take years of eating incorrectly, so when I hear stories of someone who followed Atkins for 2 weeks or a couple of months and had a heart attack, I'm fairly sure it wasn't low carbing that was responsible. HTH

gary
Mon, Jul-08-02, 08:25
All agreement here! My statements about peoples stories were not meant for alarm. You said it - that there are other factors involved. But they are the kind of stories that one hears. It is amazing - people's mis-interpretations about the Atkins diet.