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method
Sun, May-27-07, 02:47
I was skimming through all the good effects of Intermittent fasting, which is basically pigging out and then repenting for your sins for a long long time by skipping as many meals as possible until the next pigout. Well...according to its proponents diabetes is helped too but it got me thinking that if you smash your pancrease with a starch bomb every day or so then are you not actually accelerating the onset of prediabetes or insulin resistance or diabetes itself?
pauleo
Sun, May-27-07, 03:50
I just read Protein Power by Eades that has a very brief mention that fasting improves insulin sensitivity. But that meant fasting alternating with LC meals, not with starch-bomb meals.
EmmaB
Sun, May-27-07, 04:10
Most, if not all of the IFers here do low carb IF.
I certainly wouldn't suggest high carb IF to anyone. I assume the blood sugar peak/trough mechanism would make going without food for so many hours extremely unpleasant and/or dangerous.
I did read on another board about a few people higher carb IF for a few days. They soon discovered that they were unbearably tired all the time so went back to low carb IF.
Take from that what you will.
Emma
MizKitty
Sat, Jul-28-07, 21:47
I've been IF-ing for a week now. At first I was doing the Eades suggested schedule 24/24, eating till 7:00pm one day, then fasting till 7:0pm the next day.
I quickly noticed that the days that I fasted till evening, I had much better BG control all day. Not only did it stay low and in a tight range all day when i was not eating, breaking my fast with a large low carb meal was not sending my BG spiking as high as eating several meals a day had been doing.
So I switched to a 24/4 warrior type schedule, fasting all day and eating in a 4 hour window between 6 and 10 pm.
I've done that a couple days, and even my FBG is down. In other words, control is better all the way around.
Today I stayed under 114 all day, a new record for me.
the last time I ate daytime meals (just a couple days ago, I spiked from 107 before breakfast, all the way up to 158 by noon, and that was typical of the control problem I was having.
I feel like I've been let in on some huge diabetes-healing diet secret! If interested, see my journal for more specific examples of how IF is working for a type II diabetic. I've been keeping a chronological log of my BG readings and food.
MizKitty
Tue, Jul-31-07, 10:31
I know the following is a lot to ask dear readers to sort through, so only bother if you're interested in how Intermittent Fasting is affecting one diabetic's blood sugar control.
Here's several days from right before I started IF, to demonstrate how my numbers were running:
Wednesday 7/18/07 - Regular LC day
8:30 am FBG 128
2:30 pm BG 109
4:15 pm BG 128
5:15 pm BG 158
7:15 pm BG 132
8:15 pm BG 154
Food for whole day was 2046 calories, 22 net carbs
Thursday Regular LC day
8:30 am FBG 134
10:00 am BG 128
7:45 pm BG 100
9:30 pm BG 109
Food for whole day was 1778 calories, 16 net carbs
Friday Regular LC day
8:30 am FBG 130
5:30 pm BG 107
7:15 pm BG 109
8:15 pm BG 110
Food for whole day was 1910 calories, 10 net carbs
Saturday - Regular LC day
8:30 am FBG 133
3:15 pm BG 120
10:00 pm BG 134
Food for whole day was 2000 calories, 16 net carbs
Sunday - Regular LC Day
8:30 am FBG 124
5:45 pm BG 120
9:30 pm BG 134
10:15pm BG 140
Food for whole day was 1710 calories, 7 net carbs
Then I started the Eades 24/24 IF plan of fasting one day till 7:00pm (dinner day), then eating the next day till 7:00 pm (breakfast lunch day)
Monday 7/23/07 Day 1 of 24/24 IF -PM Eating Day (start at 7:00p)
9:30 am FBG 113
2:00 pm BG 113
7:30 pm Dinner 6 net carbs
10:00pm BG 107
Food for whole day was 1239 calories, 6 net carbs
Tuesday 24/24 IF - AM Eating Day (cut off at 7:00p)
8:30 FBG 115
12:00 pm BG 132
4:30 pm BG 133
7:00 pm Bg 119
10:30 pm 128
Food for whole day was 1465 calories, 25 net carbs
Wednesday 24/24 IF - PM Eating Day (start at 7:00p)
8:30am FBG 118
12:00pm BG 99
3:00 pm BG 96
7:00 pm BG 78
7:00 pm Dinner 7 net carbs
8:00 pm BG 98
8:30 pm BG 98
9:00 pm Snack 7 net carbs
9:45 pm 108
Food for whole day was 1147 calories, 13 net carbs
Thursday 24/24 IF - AM Eating Day (cut off at 7:00p)
9:am FBG- 107
10:00am Breakfast 9 net carbs
11:00am BG 128
12:30pm BG 158
2:30 pm BG 136
3:00 pm Snack - 0 carbs
5:15 pm BG 116
5:30 pm Dinner 7 net carbs
6:30 pm - 115
6:45 pm Snack 3 net carbs
8:00pm - 135
Food for whole day was 1579 calories, 19 net carbs
Friday 24/24 IF - PM Eating Day (start at 7:00p)
8:30 am FBG - 123
2:30 pm BG - 104
6:30 BG - 94
7:00 Dinner net 12 carbs
7:30 BG - 121
7:30 Snack net 5 carbs
8:30 BG - 128
9:30 BG - 128
9:30 Snack net 8 carbs
Food for whole day was 1165 calories, 25 net carbs
As I mentioned in my post above, it became immediately apparent that IF was having a positive effect on my BG, but the most dramatic improvements were on the days I fasted all day and ate only after 7:00 pm. So at that point, I switched to a 20/4 eating plan, fasting all day with an eating window of 6:00 - 10:00pm, with Sundays and Thursdays planned as "off" of IF (but still LC).
Saturday 7/28/07 SWITCH to 20/4 IF (Eating Window 6:00 - 10:00pm): 8:00 am FBG - 114
3:00 pm BG - 92
6:30 pm BG - 86
7:00 pm Dinner 9 net carbs
8:30 pm BG - 114
9:30 pm Snack 6 net carbs
10:30 pm BG - 112
Food for whole day was 1457 calories, 15 net carbs
Sunday Regular LC day:
7:30am FBG 109
8:30am Breakfast 3.5 net carbs
9:20am BG - 116
10:30am BG - 128
1:00pm Snack .5 net carbs
2:00pm BG - 99
5:30pm BG - 108
6:00pm Snack 2 net carbs
8pm Dinner 5 net carbs
11pm BG - 131
11pm snack 0 net carbs
Food for whole day was 1582 calories, 11 net carbs
Monday 20/4 IF (Eating Window 6:00 - 10:00pm):
9:30am FBG - 107
1:00pm BG - 122
2:30pm BG - 97
6:00pm Bg - 86
6:30 pm Dinner - 16 net carbs
7:30pm BG - 93
9:00pm BG - 104
Food for whole day was 1662 calories, 16 net carbs
Today
8:30am FBG - 103
11:15 am BG - 110
So far, it hasn't been hard, and in this time period I've lost 7 pounds. But the improvement I'm really thrilled with is my blood sugar control. Last August I started with an A1c of 10.1. I've lost 87.5 pounds. I'm still on 1500 mg of Metformin xr and 15 units of Lantus. (I've gotten off of 4 other drugs in the past 11 months of LC.) I do take lots of supplements. I'm hoping that in the time it takes to lose another 40 pounds or so, along with more healing of my metabolism, I might be able to look forward to the day I'm controlled just through diet. I do think IF may be the tool I've been looking for to take me the next step on that journey.
pauleo
Tue, Jul-31-07, 10:37
wow fantastic!
a bit of advice that one sees in many places is not to eat too close to bedtime. does your plan result in eating heavily close to bedtime, and any opinion on that?
MizKitty
Tue, Jul-31-07, 11:09
Pauleo, Ori Hofmekler, Author & Creator of The Warrior Diet, says it's not eating late and going to bed that causes weight gain... in fact he has science on his site of why eating at night is actually better metabolically and health-wise for humans....
He says it's eating all day, followed by eating late that is bad, because it usually means you have consumed far more calories than you can use.
http://www.warriordiet.com/diet/top-ten-diet-fallacies#f3
http://www.warriordiet.com/faq
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"The low-carb diet, especially a low-carb diet taken in IF structure, is the gold standard for treatment of diabetes and obesity in a system that is operating properly. (It would seem to be obvious if someone has diabetes or obesity that the system isn’t operating properly, but that isn’t the case. Diabetes and/or obesity are responses of a properly operating system to the incorrect diet)" ~ Dr. Michael Eades
I like that quote. His opinion, of course, but I like hearing someone who's knowledge of nutrition is vastly superior to my doctor's, saying that this is the best thing I can possibly be doing for myself.
pauleo
Tue, Jul-31-07, 13:25
Thanks for the links! And wishing you continue just as you are doing, it looks great. I talked to my naturopath doc about doing IF a while ago but she is not so keen because I have some additional food intolerance and fatigue problems to deal with. Maybe one day, it's very inspiring to see your results.
BEW98
Tue, Jul-31-07, 16:02
Hi Miz Kitty,
After reading some of your posts and then going and reading Dr. Eades blog I decided to start trying a modified version of IF (you've inspired me yet again!). :agree:
Anyway, I've been thrilled with the early results I'm seeing. Last night after having what I consider a very large meal my BS was 96! My biggest problem has always been my FBG. This moring after doing IF all day yesterday my FBG was 109! It has never been that low before. The other thing I'm noticing is that I'm not as tired as I thought I would be!
I was going to ask you if you take your metformin in the morning? If you do are you feeling okay after taking it and then not eating?
I also wanted to tell you how happy I am for you! It is wonderful to see that you are getting such fabulous results! :thup:
MizKitty
Tue, Jul-31-07, 16:19
Hi Bew, that's great that you're seeing such good results, too! Congrats on those numbers!
I'm still taking my metformin xr in the morning, which means on an empty stomach. I was prepared to change to evening if it caused me any problem, not wanting to change something that I've finally gotten into a good habit of unless I had to. But so far, everything's been fine.
How about with you?
I wonder if aside from gastrointestinal discomfort issues, if there's any efficacy reasons why metformin should be taken with food?
Daryl
Tue, Jul-31-07, 18:06
Good going, Karen :) Very gutsy to take the bull by the horns like you're doing.
I've never tried IF, but I know on days when I fast for blood work, my BG drops like a rock; last month, before my DR visit, at about 9 in the morning, it was 65.
If I tried IF, I'd be worried about further weight loss, for myself.
BEW98
Wed, Aug-01-07, 07:30
I was prepared to change to evening if it caused me any problem, not wanting to change something that I've finally gotten into a good habit of unless I had to. But so far, everything's been fine.
How about with you?
I wonder if aside from gastrointestinal discomfort issues, if there's any efficacy reasons why metformin should be taken with food?
Today is the first day that I am officially fasting all day long (I'm a chicken and have been eating a small bit of protein in the morning when I take my pills because I wasn't sure how it would affect me). I have taken my met so I'll see what happens and let you know. Hopefully everything will be fine. My FBG was higher this morning, but I'm hoping that has more to do with TOM and not the IF. I did have a few extra carbs last night (peppers and onions) so I don't know if that was why I saw the rise or not. I'm kind of just playing this by ear and seeing what happens.
I honestly have never heard whether you absolutely have to eat anything when you take metformin. I have a friend that can only tolerate it if she takes it at bedtime (without food) and she doesn't have a problem with it so I don't know if it is an absolute necessity or not.
MizKitty
Wed, Aug-01-07, 09:20
I've never tried IF, but I know on days when I fast for blood work, my BG drops like a rock; last month, before my DR visit, at about 9 in the morning, it was 65.
If I tried IF, I'd be worried about further weight loss, for myself.
Hi Darryl, there's another member here who tried IF and had problems with hypos, too. Diabetes sure isn't a one-size-fits-all disease, is it?
I wonder if someone at their normal weight like you would lose weight? I think the Eades were asked that based on the fact that they did 24/24 IF for a few weeks. It seems he says he dropped about 5 pounds that had creeped back on and he needed to, and then the weight loss stabilized, but I would need to re-read his blog to be sure that's what he said.
It would be challenging I think, to consume the same number of calories on an IF schedule as one does eating 3+ meals a day, especially since allegedly, this way of eating does not slow down the metabolism.
But looks like it could be a very good fit for many obese type II's!
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