You can have bread,yogurt,treats

[eddiemcm]

Hey,carblessholics
Just cause we have the big D doesn't mean we have to lay around feeling
depressed munching on celery.Consider
the following treats that won't spike your
BG.
bread:
1. Carbdown light wraps-very large
sandwich wrap-only 6G net carbs.
Just loaded one of these babies up
with pastrami and cheese.Yum!
Thanks,Lisa
2. Natures own 7G wholewheat-5G net
carbs per slice
3. Dark rye bread
4. Pumpernickel bread
Yogurt
1. Krogers CarbMaster-only 3G net carbs
per container.Tastes great
2. BlueBunny carb something or another-
5G net carbs(I think).Tastes good
other:
I'm thinking about strawberries and
coolwhip tonight
perverted:
How about adopting an ugly cat?
Cheers from Houston
Eddie

[dancinbr]

Hey,carblessholics
Just cause we have the big D doesn't mean we have to lay around feeling
depressed munching on celery.Consider
the following treats that won't spike your
BG.
bread:
1. Carbdown light wraps-very large
sandwich wrap-only 6G net carbs.
Just loaded one of these babies up
with pastrami and cheese.Yum!
Thanks,Lisa
2. Natures own 7G wholewheat-5G net
carbs per slice
3. Dark rye bread
4. Pumpernickel bread
Yogurt
1. Krogers CarbMaster-only 3G net carbs
per container.Tastes great
2. BlueBunny carb something or another-
5G net carbs(I think).Tastes good
other:
I'm thinking about strawberries and
coolwhip tonight
perverted:
How about adopting an ugly cat?
Cheers from Houston
Eddie

Have you tested before and after to see what the effects of these "low carb" foods have on your BG levels?

Thanks,

Ralph :q:

[Charran]

I'm going to step in here because I'm kind of an oddity on the diabetes thread. I follow the SB plan, which is higher in carbs than many other plans. I do eat dairy products, fruit, all veggies, and some grains like steel cut oats, flaxmeal, crispbreads like Ryvita etc. I do alot of testing. What I find is that the smaller I get, the more carbs my body is able to handle and that exercise is a wonderful thing for me. I have to be careful though because just because I CAN eat more carbs doesn't always mean that I SHOULD and that's a big difference to weight loss! Every person's body is different and reacts to carbs differently. That's why I would encourage everyone if they are going to be trying a new food to test the reaction!

[NYNikki]

I agree with Charran ... I lost over 100 pounds and I tolerate carbs so much better these days but I plan on staying this way and don't go overboard.

The absolute thing I miss most next to any bread type.. is an orange and I have tried to incorporate them back into my life with no luck- still today the shoot my glucose through the roof. I don't think I will ever be able to enjoy an orange again withOUT setting my readings off.

As Charran said "Every person's body is different and reacts to carbs differently". Even today I continue to test as my body is still making adjustments to carb reactions.

[Charran]

Nikki...You have done amazingly well. Congrats on being down 100 pounds! WOW! Did you follow a formal plan to lose or just one of your own making? I'm in abit of a stall right now and want to get going on the final leg of my journey here, so any tips you might have would be appreciated! I think it's great that you continue to try things and to test. After all that is really the only way we'll ever know our own bodies, isn't it?

[NYNikki]

Hi Charran,

I low carbed in order to gain control on my diabetes and the weight loss was secondary. I benefited in so many ways from sticking to my own custom adjusted plan including better food choices, daily exercise and full-bodied supplements ... that it truly is a 'normal' way of life for me.

In all this time of Low carbing - I luckily only stalled 1 time for a few months and no sooner did I post about it on this forum - I moved out of it. I know it's frustrating and I don't have a tip other then stick with what works for nobody else but 'Y-O-U'.

Good Luck!

[dina1957]

Interesting how different carbs affect us differently. I can have small orange and small apple, and other low GI fruit without seeing my Bgs spike high. PLain yougurt has very little impact as well. Grains and sweets have the most impact, with fruit juice (even V8) having the majopr impact, it can spike my Bgs up to 170 in one hour.
I also agree that weight loss helps our bodies to handle carbs better, as well as not eating los of fat in one meal. I seriously believe now that while sat. dat has no direct impact on BGs, it impairs glucose metabolism indirectly and so does alcohol.
JME.

[eddiemcm]

I have tried everything I listed and a couple of them upped my BG by about 50 points after an
hour but BG came down rapidly.I can't tolerate
juices,white bread or mashed potatoes.Certain
fruits are intolerable to me.I guess we're all
similar but different in our reaction to carbs.
Makes a lot of sense to do a lot of BG testing
to see what foods to avoid.
I'm starting to lose weight again(about 2 lb per
week) even though I'm currently on a Sulfonylurea med which has a potential side
effect of weight gain.Exercise helps a lot.
Booze doesn't help weight loss but it makes
me cheerful and sometimes a little insane.
Bye for now
Eddie

[dina1957]

I have tried everything I listed and a couple of them upped my BG by about 50 points after an
hour but BG came down rapidly.I can't tolerate
juices,white bread or mashed potatoes.Certain
fruits are intolerable to me.I guess we're all
similar but different in our reaction to carbs.
Makes a lot of sense to do a lot of BG testing
to see what foods to avoid.
I'm starting to lose weight again(about 2 lb per
week) even though I'm currently on a Sulfonylurea med which has a potential side
effect of weight gain.Exercise helps a lot.
Booze doesn't help weight loss but it makes
me cheerful and sometimes a little insane.
Bye for now
Eddie
Eddie,
I think there are many variable, number of carbs, time of the day (evening is better than morning), exericise, and more important- food combining.
Booze seriously impacts weight loss, but I like it too. Makes me forget about my diabetes too, LOL. But unfortunately, having wine with dinner assures I will eat cheese too, and the combination of the two makes weight loss challenging.
it is also good to be a little insane sometimes.;)Life is too boring otherwise...
Regards,
Dina

[NYNikki]

that won't spike your BG.
bread:
1. Carbdown light wraps-very large
sandwich wrap-only 6G net carbs.
Just loaded one of these babies up
with pastrami and cheese.Yum!
Thanks,Lisa
2. Natures own 7G wholewheat-5G net
carbs per slice
3. Dark rye bread
4. Pumpernickel bread
Yogurt
1. Krogers CarbMaster-only 3G net carbs
per container.Tastes great
2. BlueBunny carb something or another-
5G net carbs(I think).Tastes good
Bread of ANY type sets off non-ending negative cravings. This may be mind over matter but I have not come across any other food that has that same consequence. So, I don't tempt it and have learned to live without just fine.

[dina1957]

Bread of ANY type sets off non-ending negative cravings. This may be mind over matter but I have not come across any other food that has that same consequence. So, I don't tempt it and have learned to live without just fine.
I think low carb bread is not very healthy, lots of gluten, soy and other crap and taste respectively. Thin slice of real sourdough bread does not bother my blood sugar much, and does not create cravings. It also so much better for digestion than low carb immitation crap.
JMO

[eddiemcm]

"Bread of ANY type sets off non-ending negative cravings."
Not for me.I like sourdough bread also.
I think soy is healthy-unsure about gluten.
Actually,I don't think any of the breads I listed
have gluten.
Eddie

[eddiemcm]

Hmm
Need to correct myself about gluten.
Wikipedia says most wheat based products
have gluten in them.None of the products I
listed list gluten in their ingredients but...
Wikipedia also says about 1 percent of people
are gluten sensitive-causes flattening of small
intestine.Blood test and/or endscopey will
detect gluten sensitivity.

[Lisa N]

Eddie, gluten wouldn't be listed as an ingredient because it's part of the flour itself, just as you don't see 'lactose' as an ingredient in milk but it's certainly there. :idea:

[eddiemcm]

Lisa
Gluten is listed in Atkins quick quisine pancakes.Maybe it's the exception
Eddie

[RobLL]

Lisa
Gluten is listed in Atkins quick quisine pancakes.Maybe it's the exception
Eddie

added gluten

[NYNikki]

I think low carb bread is not very healthy, lots of gluten, soy and other crap and taste respectively. Thin slice of real sourdough bread does not bother my blood sugar much, and does not create cravings. It also so much better for digestion than low carb immitation crap.
JMO

I agree and limit my gluten intake and I stay far away from anything soy.

It's not as much my glucose spike as it is that any type of bread sets off cravings for me. Believe me I tried but found that 'for me' eating bread leads me down a road of destruction no matter how strong I count myself.

Now if I eat an orange (as I stated I miss so much) my glucose spikes so scary high that it puts me out of commission for a long time coming. Cravings and spikes were once big challenges for me but I evaluated myself and now know how to combat them and that is to avoid both entirely- that’s the tip that works for me and as I said these days I no longer 'tempt' it in anyway.

I have divorced bread and oranges from my life and moved on .......

[dina1957]

Lisa
Gluten is listed in Atkins quick quisine pancakes.Maybe it's the exception
Eddie
Eddie,
Most lc breads are made of high gluten flour or vital gluten flour and small amount of whole wheat flour, so they are obligate to list gluten as ingridient, since many folks are indeed allergic to this protein. High glutenflour is 70-80% protein, and very low in carbs, is what gives the LC product rubber like apperance and taste. Gluten adds elasticity and normally this kind of flour is used to make pasta, so good quality italian pasta is made of high protein flour (semolina) and has lower GI if cooked al-dente.
Regular bread flour is more starchy and has less gluten. High gluten flour is expensive, so many manufacturers replace it with soy flour.
I believe soy is not healthy at all, especially soy flour and soy protein, so I am much better without bread. Gluten linked to many autoimmune deseases, so we are better off without LC products and especially bread.
When it comes to bread, I can live without it, but if I really want some, sourgough is the best choice, BTW lower in carbs than whole wheat bread for a decent slice.
Bran-a-crips crackers are 65% bran and low in gluten, so it is another alternative to LC crap.
I have noticed that lc pancakes mix spikes my Bgs higher than small amount of regular carbs, and also contains stuff that I normally try to avoid.
Link below explains what is gluten flour.
http://www.ochef.com/219.htm
Regards,
D.

[dina1957]

I agree and limit my gluten intake and I stay far away from anything soy.

It's not as much my glucose spike as it is that any type of bread sets off cravings for me. Believe me I tried but found that 'for me' eating bread leads me down a road of destruction no matter how strong I count myself.

Now if I eat an orange (as I stated I miss so much) my glucose spikes so scary high that it puts me out of commission for a long time coming. Cravings and spikes were once big challenges for me but I evaluated myself and now know how to combat them and that is to avoid both entirely- that’s the tip that works for me and as I said these days I no longer 'tempt' it in anyway.

I have divorced bread and oranges from my life and moved on .......
How high Bg spike is scary high for you and how long it take to bring it down?
medium orange can spike my Bgs from 85 to 110 if i eat it as a snack, but in the afternoon, when my insulin is high enough. Apple works the same. I only eat bread on ocation and only the best quality, very small amount, and always with protein and fat. So it does not bother me much, but YMMV.
I don't buy any lc food, tried cereal and some bread, all taste like crap because it is made of it. I stay away from soy, gluten, and other common allergens, especially in concetrated form in LC products.

[NYNikki]

How high Bg spike is scary high for you and how long it take to bring it down? medium orange can spike my Bgs from 85 to 110

I had a small Clementine orange last October... my sugar spiked to 193 and it took 3 days before I saw better readings. And I felt like crap all along. It was my test because I'm now able to eat other things that I couldn't eat before (without a spike). Sadly, oranges are crossed off that list forever. Lesson learned for me.

I cook from whole natural sources rather then anything pre-made. It's not always easy, convenient or done in a flash of time but the health benefits win hands down. I'm weaning myself toward retirement this summer and am in the process of remolding my kitchen for anticipation of all the cooking time I will have then. I can't wait for warmer weather so I'll have fresh tomatoes & herbs to make a batch of my own healthy Sunday Italian Sauce.

I like the way I feel today and won't give it up for anything else in this world-I count myself lucky to have gotten to this point of my life.

BTW: just got my A1C back ... 4.6 (very happy)

[dina1957]

TAI had a small Clementine orange last October... my sugar spiked to 193 and it took 3 days before I saw better readings.
Wow, I would have to drink large glass of juice or regular coke to spike my Bgs that high, and still, will be around 110 after 3 hours the most. But I never expriment with this stuff anyways. Once I ate Thai food and even it tasted somewhat sweet ( I can taste sugar even in small quantities), I still picked whatever I thought was lower in carbs, I came home and tested right way - I was at 190, but 3 hours later my Bg drop to low 70s, which tells me I had insulin spike.
I wonder if years of low carbing made your Bgs spike that high or it was prior to LC?

I cook from whole natural sources rather then anything pre-made. It's not always easy, convenient or done in a flash of time but the health benefits win hands down. I'm weaning myself toward retirement this summer and am in the process of remolding my kitchen for anticipation of all the cooking time I will have then. I can't wait for warmer weather so I'll have fresh tomatoes & herbs to make a batch of my own healthy Sunday Italian Sauce.
I have been cooking since I was 15, and still do, almost every day, everything from scratch including tomatoe sauce, love cooking, may be too much, LOL.

BTW: just got my A1C back ... 4.6 (very happy)
It is amazing, your H1C is very good, mine never was that low, but i am in 5% club still. Congrats on great success!
ETA: Just wonder what is yuour plan in nutshell, your stats: low carb minded, so I would appreciate if you give some details: is it very low carb, 6-12-12, atkins like, or SB.
Thanks,
Dina

[eddiemcm]

"BTW: just got my A1C back ... 4.6 (very happy)"
wow!! A1C=4.6 and 100 lbs lost.
NYNIKKI,NYNIKKI,NYNIKKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eddie

[NYNikki]

eddiemcm, Thank you. I never imaged to ever achieve that number and doubt I would without losing 100 pounds. It's AMAZING that I did it all while having a career that requires me to be more out of the country then in (just back from a 5 week business trip to South Africa).

dina1957, in respect to not hijacking Eddie’s bread threat - I will say in short - I refer to LC as a 'lifestyle' rather then a 'diet'. I dieted all my adult life without luck, I have read, researched and talked to a lot on people (one being my sister who is a noted scientist) who have given me insight but I don't go buy any written scripture. Through a whole lot of trail and error I found works for 'me' and that includes healthier carb choices, daily (and I mean everyday) exercise and an array of pure substance supplements (that I researched the components myself) - it’s a combo of all 3 that I consider my LC lifestyle (plan).

[eddiemcm]

"in respect to not hijacking Eddie’s bread threat"
Nikki,I wasn't aware I had made a bread threat.
Maybe you meant treat?
I'm comfortable about the stuff I posted but,
given the 1 percent chance of gluten sensitivity,
I suppose people should take the "wholewheat
is great" thing with a grain of salt
Darn!Salt is bad too.
Bye from Houston
Eddie-alien trappedd in Irishman's body

[NYNikki]

"in respect to not hijacking Eddie’s bread threat"
Nikki,I wasn't aware I had made a bread threat.
Maybe you meant treat?

WOW eddie - thanks for catching my typo - I shorten your title and should have said ... in respect to not hijacking Eddie’s bread thead

Have a Great Weekend!

[eddiemcm]

Nikki
my "bread thead?"?Hmmm...
Clever,these NY people.
Always nice etalking to you.
Have a great weekend and Easter.
Dina
Good weekend and great Easter to you.
Eddie

[dina1957]

I suppose people should take the "wholewheat
is great" thing with a grain of salt
Darn!Salt is bad too.

Eddie,
IMO, sourdough bread is far superior to wholw wheat.;)Portion size ( GL) makes the difference too. As for salt, it is good just find the right one, like celtic salt from Brittany.
Have a great weekend too.
Dina:wave:

[Avalo2]

That was a nice treat, I especially like the beginning of the thread. It reminded me about Dr. B starting with his first blood glucose tester to find our what worked for him. thank goodness he did that.

[NYNikki]

Nikki
my "bread thead?"?Hmmm...
Clever,these NY people.
Always nice etalking to you.
Have a great weekend and Easter

:bash: :daze:THREAD, THREAD, THREAD, THREAD:daze: :bash:

And Eddie ... Happy Easter to you also, my Houston alien e-friend trappedd in an Irishman's body.

[eddiemcm]

"That was a nice treat, I especially like the beginning of the thread. It reminded me about Dr. B starting with his first blood glucose tester to find our what worked for him. thank goodness he did that."
Dr Bernstein appears to be extremely exceptional.IMHO,he deserves all the praise and
acclaim that we can bestow upon him however,
being a type 1 diabetic,his ideas may be slightly
skewed for type 2 diabetics.That's my take on
Dr Bernstein-I may be wrong but it's my opinion
at this point after reading one of his books.
Wishing all members of the D club a happy and
blessed easter.
Eddie

[RobLL]

Thanks Eddie - he doesn't have much at all to say about pre diabetes.

[dancinbr]

"That was a nice treat, I especially like the beginning of the thread. It reminded me about Dr. B starting with his first blood glucose tester to find our what worked for him. thank goodness he did that."
Dr Bernstein appears to be extremely exceptional.IMHO,he deserves all the praise and
acclaim that we can bestow upon him however,
being a type 1 diabetic,his ideas may be slightly
skewed for type 2 diabetics.That's my take on
Dr Bernstein-I may be wrong but it's my opinion
at this point after reading one of his books.
Wishing all members of the D club a happy and
blessed easter.
Eddie

Hello Eddie,

I have been following this thread with great interest.

I was diagnosed as Type 2 diabetic this past March 2007.

I bought Dr. Bernsteins' book "Diabetes Solution". Yes, he spends a lot of time speaking to the Type 1 diabetic. However, there are loads of information in the book that have helped me to bring my BG levels under control.

I have not reached the targets yet of under 100. However, four weeks ago my BG was in the 250-350 range and my A1c was 9.6. The various techniques on when to take meds (ex Metformin extended release), the various different meds available, the 6-12-12 low carb WOE and son have helped me adjust very quickly to a new lifestyle that has brough my numbers into the 85-115 range with an aveage of 112. As I said not target yet, but a dramatic improvement.

I have also learned patience since the Metformin and its positive effects apparently takes some time to reach its full potential.

I think he more than adequately has taught me how to control my diabetes and to help me save what is left of my ability to create insulin.

Concluding, the book is worth it, more than worth it for both the Type 1 and Type 2 diabetic.

As to pre-diabetic the low carb approach and the many references to studies showing this WOE is probably the "right" way as compared to the "food pyramid" recommended by the "establishment" is the one vital key to a pre-diabetic and avoid becoming a diabetic.

Happy Easter to everyone.

Ralph :thup:

[eddiemcm]

"Concluding, the book is worth it, more than worth it for both the Type 1 and Type 2 diabetic"
Agreed.If you are type 2,which most diabetics
are,you must filter out incorrect info.For instance:If you experience the dawn phenomena,which most diabetics do,6G of carbs
for breakfast is absurd if you are not injecting
insulin.Most type 2's need considerably more carbs in the morning to get insulin flowing to overcome the dawn phenomena.It is correct that some meds help with the dawn phenomena.
Just one example.Several more exist.
Cheers and good BG readings
Eddie

[eddiemcm]

"Thanks Eddie - he doesn't have much at all to say about pre diabetes."
Rob
Good point.My numbers and tests label me as a
prediabetic but I decided to dump the "pre" and
call myself a diabetic and act accordingly.
Without serious intervention,most prediabetics
will become diabetics.The information that I have picked up from this forum has helped me to get a good start.
Cheers
Eddie

[Daryl]

Hello Eddie,

I have been following this thread with great interest.

I was diagnosed as Type 2 diabetic this past March 2007.

I bought Dr. Bernsteins' book "Diabetes Solution". Yes, he spends a lot of time speaking to the Type 1 diabetic. However, there are loads of information in the book that have helped me to bring my BG levels under control.

I have not reached the targets yet of under 100. However, four weeks ago my BG was in the 250-350 range and my A1c was 9.6. The various techniques on when to take meds (ex Metformin extended release), the various different meds available, the 6-12-12 low carb WOE and son have helped me adjust very quickly to a new lifestyle that has brough my numbers into the 85-115 range with an aveage of 112. As I said not target yet, but a dramatic improvement.

I have also learned patience since the Metformin and its positive effects apparently takes some time to reach its full potential.

I think he more than adequately has taught me how to control my diabetes and to help me save what is left of my ability to create insulin.

Concluding, the book is worth it, more than worth it for both the Type 1 and Type 2 diabetic.

As to pre-diabetic the low carb approach and the many references to studies showing this WOE is probably the "right" way as compared to the "food pyramid" recommended by the "establishment" is the one vital key to a pre-diabetic and avoid becoming a diabetic.

Happy Easter to everyone.

Ralph :thup:

Well said, Ralph. When I was diagnosed with type 2 in late December, to say I was frantic would be an understatement. I sat down at my pc one night, and the first site I came to was Dr. Bernstein's. I truly believe that God was giving me a helping hand there, and I made a determination to have faith in Him and what I was learning regards low-carb nutrition, etc, as the way to save my health, and my life. The results have been wonderful; a loss of over 70 pounds, FBG from 339 to 83, and I feel fitter and better than I have in a very, very long time.

Happy Easter, my friends.

[Lisa N]

If you experience the dawn phenomena,which most diabetics do,6G of carbs
for breakfast is absurd if you are not injecting

I dunno, Eddie. I'm neither injecting nor taking meds and the 6 for breakfast (often less) works fine for me. My fastings are never over 90 now unless I'm ill and that's become a rare occurrance in the 5+ years I've been on low carb. :D

[dina1957]

"Concluding, the book is worth it, more than worth it for both the Type 1 and Type 2 diabetic"
Agreed.If you are type 2,which most diabetics
are,you must filter out incorrect info.For instance:If you experience the dawn phenomena,which most diabetics do,6G of carbs
for breakfast is absurd if you are not injecting
insulin.Most type 2's need considerably more carbs in the morning to get insulin flowing to overcome the dawn phenomena.It is correct that some meds help with the dawn phenomena.
Just one example.Several more exist.
Cheers and good BG readings
Eddie
Eddie,
We are 2 of a kind, I woke today to 118, ate one boiled egg and 1/2 slice of cheese for BF, and one bran-a-crisp cracker (6 g carbs) with 1/2 tbs of butter, and tea with liquid splenda. 2 hours later - Bgs 126.:q: Normally, I am inder 100 in 2 hours, but I need at least 20 g of carbs to get insulin going, or it will take 1/2 a day to bring it down.
So, I worked out for an hour ( weights and then cardio), and finally managed to get it down to 100.
I also must eat 20-30 g per meal to feel human, keep my energy level normal, and not to crush my thyroid. On 6-12-12 plan I was on my way to become hypoT, my FT4 and FT3 were rock bottom, and I felt like dead meat. I think the diet is doable for those who have sedentary life style, do not exericse much and had high BG because of very poor dietary choices.
JMO
Cheers,
D.

[dancinbr]

Eddie,
We are 2 of a kind, I woke today to 118, ate one boiled egg and 1/2 slice of cheese for BF, and one bran-a-crisp cracker (6 g carbs) with 1/2 tbs of butter, and tea with liquid splenda. 2 hours later - Bgs 126.:q: Normally, I am inder 100 in 2 hours, but I need at least 20 g of carbs to get insulin going, or it will take 1/2 a day to bring it down.
So, I worked out for an hour ( weights and then cardio), and finally managed to get it down to 100.
I also must eat 20-30 g per meal to feel human, keep my energy level normal, and not to crush my thyroid. On 6-12-12 plan I was on my way to become hypoT, my FT4 and FT3 were rock bottom, and I felt like dead meat. I think the diet is doable for those who have sedentary life style, do not exericse much and had high BG because of very poor dietary choices.
JMO
Cheers,
D.

Right now, I get up and my BFG is 110. I hope it drops further. I have a breakfast of eggs and 1 low carb slice of bread. But some half and half, etc, brings my typical carbs for breakfast in around 10 not 6. So I am still learning and experimenting.

The true key is the exercise. After I digest a bit I go for a 2.2 mile walk with my wonderful miniature poodle, Sadie. The walk is up and down hills so it is aerobice as well. I come back and my BG is in mid80s. So that is the way I am playing it.

I may just start with aerobics in the morning, even just the minimum 20 minutes and see what that does even before breakfast.

Ralph

[Daryl]

It's worth a shot, Ralph; one thing to keep in mind, Dr. Bernstein talks about how some diabetics see a rise in blood sugar after exercise in the morning. So, if that happens to you, don't freak out, it isn't totally uncommon. Hang in there, you're doing good.

[eddiemcm]

"If you're overweight, I have a very simple method for determining how many simple carbohydrates to include in your diet. Just follow these easy steps: Take a piece of paper. Take a pencil. Draw a large circle on the paper. Read the answer."
No mention of whether the zero answer applies to a type 2 diabetic who must battle dawn phenomena-it doesn't!
Let me say here that,even though I don't buy into
all their beliefs/statements,I still have tremendous
respect for accomplishments of the late Dr. Atkins
and Dr. Bernstein.I read all of Atkins books and,
to date,I have read one Bernstein book.
About aerobic exercise: it usually lowers my
BG but a few times it has increased my BG.
I do weightlifting at the end of the day because
I like it and it seems to destress me for awhile.
Not a lot of effect on my BG
Cheers and good BG's
Eddie

[Daryl]

"If you're overweight, I have a very simple method for determining how many simple carbohydrates to include in your diet. Just follow these easy steps: Take a piece of paper. Take a pencil. Draw a large circle on the paper. Read the answer."
No mention of whether the zero answer applies to a type 2 diabetic who must battle dawn phenomena-it doesn't!
Let me say here that,even though I don't buy into
all their beliefs/statements,I still have tremendous
respect for accomplishments of the late Dr. Atkins
and Dr. Bernstein.I read all of Atkins books and,
to date,I have read one Bernstein book.
About aerobic exercise: it usually lowers my
BG but a few times it has increased my BG.
I do weightlifting at the end of the day because
I like it and it seems to destress me for awhile.
Not a lot of effect on my BG
Cheers and good BG's
Eddie

Hi Eddie,

I would say the "zero simple carbs" does pertain to us; I don't see simple carbs doing any of us any good, but as others have said, there isn't any single way that works for everyone. And some type 2s feel they need a fair amount of carbs in the morning to overcome the DP, I would ask why can't those carbs come from complex sources?

On exercise.... I ride a recumbant (sp?) bike about 60-90 minutes after dinner, and it helps my bgs quite a bit. The weights, I do them (a little) because, like you, it helps with stress, and also because increases muscle helps burn fat, and it increases the body's sensitivity to insulin. And I just like it :) .

[eddiemcm]

"If you're overweight, I have a very simple method for determining how many simple carbohydrates to include in your diet. Just follow these easy steps: Take a piece of paper. Take a pencil. Draw a large circle on the paper. Read the answer."
Incorrect statement for me,incorrect statement
for Dina1957.Some of us need carbs,particularly in the morning,to release
insulin to fight the dawn phenomena.Incidentally,I
am not overweight.
Quote Atkins all you want,Daryl but he was
dead wrong about zero carbs being a panacea
for everyone.Getting kind of bored responding
to this quote .No disrespect to you or Atkins
meant or implied.
Eddie

[eddiemcm]

"I dunno, Eddie. I'm neither injecting nor taking meds and the 6 for breakfast (often less) works fine for me. My fastings are never over 90 now unless I'm ill and that's become a rare occurrance in the 5+ years I've been on low carb. "
Lisa,my body requires breakfast carbs.Dina1957
says she has the same requirement.I'm sure
others on this forum are the same but I'm also
sure that others on this forum don't require
morning carbs.
Any obvious conclusions?
Eddie

[dancinbr]

"I dunno, Eddie. I'm neither injecting nor taking meds and the 6 for breakfast (often less) works fine for me. My fastings are never over 90 now unless I'm ill and that's become a rare occurrance in the 5+ years I've been on low carb. "
Lisa,my body requires breakfast carbs.Dina1957
says she has the same requirement.I'm sure
others on this forum are the same but I'm also
sure that others on this forum don't require
morning carbs.
Any obvious conclusions?
Eddie

I think we all need to recognize there are differences. The human body to say a the least is a complex "machine" if you will.

What we have done to damage it varies.

I totally expect that different remedies are in order for us as individuals.

However, there are underlying guidelines that work for all of us.

Ralph

[eddiemcm]

"I think we all need to recognize there are differences. The human body to say a the least is a complex "machine" if you will."
I agree.The Mercola website has something called a "metabolic typing" profile which is supposed to tell us what type of diet the
person who does this should pursue.I'm
not sure that I buy into this anymore than I
buy into Atkins zero carbs statement but,
just for curiosity,I may profile myself.
BTW,fat is a very inefficient energy source-
makes your whole system very acidic.
Bye for now
Eddie

[dina1957]

Hi Eddie,

I would say the "zero simple carbs" does pertain to us; I don't see simple carbs doing any of us any good, but as others have said, there isn't any single way that works for everyone.
Daryl
One thing many forget that diabetes by definition is " body does not produce sufficient insulin (T1) or can't utilize insulin that is produce (T2)". it is not about carbs, it is about insulin. So here we come to the 2nd point:
there is also 2 source of blood glucose:
1) diet
2) liver
You take your pick, which one you preffer to deal with. While dietary carbs (from low GI sources, complex and helathy) trigger insulin, 0 carbs will results in very little basal insulin , so we end up with glucose source #2 - liver manufacturing via gluconeogenesis, which can be only stopped by eating some carbs. It is a vicious cycle and not a pretty one, and many indeed do much better when they eat smaller meals containing protein, carbs and fats more often, like every 3 hours. This assures constant insulin release, but just enough to keep BG steady, rather than eat large low carb meals at 5 hours interval and get liver going without taking break in between. Drs A and B would argue that while we eat almost no carbs, body becoems mroe sensitive to insulin and requires less of it, but I have tried different amount and still end up with FBG sky high after a few days on very low carbs.
Not only it overburdens liver (constant protein to glucose conversion) it also overburdens adrenals, and if this 0 carbs diet continues, it may results in adrenal burnout. healthy adrenals are crucial for overall health, and healthy thyroid, BTW, Dr.B has acknowldeged that long term low carbing may results in hypothyrodism. So, we do need carbs and technically, cabrs needed as much as you need wooden chips and pieces of paper to get going large log (fat)if you want efficient and prolonged fire burning. Try to ignite a log without it, and you will have poor results unless you poor some alcohol on it first, :lol:

And some type 2s feel they need a fair amount of carbs in the morning to overcome the DP, I would ask why can't those carbs come from complex sources?
Who said it should be simple carbs???????? Complex carbs come from grains, starches and veggies, simple - fruit and dairy but they contain mostly fructose and lactose, those need to be covnerted to glucose and it takes some time, especially true for low GI fruit and lactofermented dairy.
I must say that if I could eat every 3 hours around the clock, my Bgs will stay at 80-90 range, and no DP will bother me.
One thing we all can live without is processed carbs and sugars, everyone would be happier and healthier. Oh, and carbs from whole sources, also come with added benefits of vitamins and antioxidants, and they make sure our body is not overly acidic too.

On exercise.... I ride a recumbant (sp?) bike about 60-90 minutes after dinner, and it helps my bgs quite a bit. The weights, I do them (a little) because, like you, it helps with stress, and also because increases muscle helps burn fat, and it increases the body's sensitivity to insulin. And I just like it :) .
I see exercise is a overall health tool, but one had to ingest some carbs to make it happened, 0 carbs means no exericse for me, so this is another bonus of eating more than 20-30 g carbs.
As for muscles, I am pretty muscular, but i don't see it is helping much, LOL.
I simply like exercise, it is great de-stresser.:)

[dina1957]

"I think we all need to recognize there are differences. The human body to say a the least is a complex "machine" if you will."
I agree.The Mercola website has something called a "metabolic typing" profile which is supposed to tell us what type of diet the
person who does this should pursue.I'm
not sure that I buy into this anymore than I
buy into Atkins zero carbs statement but,
just for curiosity,I may profile myself.
BTW,fat is a very inefficient energy source-
makes your whole system very acidic.
Bye for now
Eddie
Hi Eddie,
I don't buy the metabolic typing either, I have read the book. Niehter I buy Blood Type diet, however, I believe many blood type O are T2 diabetics, so called "thrifty genotype" or simply put, faulty genes, LOL.
As for using fat as a primary fuel source, it is indeed very unefficient and slow fuel, since it was used as a back-up system during time of famine when food was unavaiable, so it lowers your appetite so you won;t be wasting energy looking for food. it also make me too acidic, and I ache all over.
I had last blood test on 6-12-12 plan and got BUN high, while creatinine was normal -0.9. I eat more carbs now and less protein and fat, probably around 80g some days even more like 100-120 ( total), and my last BUN dropped to lower side of the range, and also creatinine droped to 0.7, and the ratio improved.
I get bad grain fog, lethargy, mood down to drain, and no desire to live in ketosis, not sure how can someone live on 0 carbs, it probably takes more than one generation to adapt. So, I am done experimenting with ketosis, it is been 5 years and I am not longer my own lab rat.;)
Life is too short to feel miserable!:)
best regards,
D.

[Daryl]

[QUOTE=eddiemcmQuote Atkins all you want,Daryl but he was
dead wrong about zero carbs being a panacea
for everyone.Getting kind of bored responding
to this quote .No disrespect to you or Atkins
meant or implied.
Eddie[/QUOTE]

Okay, but Atkins never claimed his diet was a "panacea" for everyone, and if responding to the quote bores you, don't do it :lol: . No disrespect taken, Eddie, honest. I enjoy hearing different viewpoints and ideas, it helps me learn.

[Daryl]

Oh, and carbs from whole sources, also come with added benefits of vitamins and antioxidants, and they make sure our body is not overly acidic too.




Acid is something on my mind, Dina. My uric acid doubled after going low-carb, the only negative I can think of from eating this way. I'm going to start a thread about my thoughts and concerns regarding this very soon, maybe tonight, in the Low Carb section. Commentary from everyone is encouraged!

[Lisa N]

Quote Atkins all you want,Daryl but he was
dead wrong about zero carbs being a panacea
for everyone.

I must have missed that zero carb recommendation in the book. Anybody have a page reference? ;)

[eddiemcm]

"Life is too short to feel miserable!"
Dina,you make so much sense sometimes.
Bye for now
Eddie

[eddiemcm]

"No disrespect taken, Eddie, honest. I enjoy hearing different viewpoints and ideas, it helps me learn."
Good point,Daryl.
Live long and prosper
Eddie

[dina1957]

"Life is too short to feel miserable!"
Dina,you make so much sense sometimes.
Bye for now
Eddie
Sounds like oxymorone to me, LOL. I thought I make sense most of the time, silly me, LOL
Regards,
D.

[dina1957]

I must have missed that zero carb recommendation in the book. Anybody have a page reference? ;)
Lisa,
I think they were trying to make a point that <20 g of carbs is not much different than none;). In his 1st book, it was <10 g. But I don't think 3 cups of salad makes really big difference, a little bit of veggies and you are all out of carbs.
But Atkins never suggested to stay On Induction and in ketosis forever, to the fairness.