[CKD] How low can you go? Dan I have ?

[brumleym]

Trainer Dan,

From 22% down to 14.5%. Still not happy with the abs just yet. How low can you get on CKD before I am so platued out? My goal is 10% but would love those single digits. Only been doing this 2 months so far. Second, how the heck do y'all get into ketosis. I can't seem to get a reading on those darn sticks. My diet is very strict and workout is as follows:

Sunday: lo/no CARB a nice slow 15-18 mile run (marathon coming soon, need that stamina)

Monday: lo/no CARB Back/Chest lift (1 to 1.5 hrs)

Tuesday: lo/no CARB Legs/Shoulders/Arms/Abs (1 to 1.5 hrs)

Wednesday: no/lo CARB 5-6 miles with 10x1/4 mile intervals in there at 6 minute pace

Thursday: no/lo carb 5-6 miles fast with lots of fartleck fun, maybe some abs for kicks

Friday: Total Body lifting blast followed by with 10x1/4 mile intervals on the TM till I about puke, then begin carb up fairly with liberal calories

Saturday: Carb up continues with moderate calories till after dinner snack. Then nada but water till 1400 on sunday and only after a gruel-athon

I can handle the intesity of all the speed and recover quickly. Any other suggestions? Thanks Mike

[Trainerdan]

First, congratulations on dropping from 22% to 14%. That's HUGE. Two different worlds, right?

Now to answer your question(s):

I have gotten down as low as 7%. That was a killer, and I don't think I will venture there again, as I have no plans to step on a posing stage any time soon. ;)

But, to get there I had to use a number of add-on tricks:

- Double-split cardio, one session in the AM and another in the PM. I used moderate intensity on all of the cardio work, except for the first one after carb-up (for me, it was Monday morning) and the last one before the carb-up (for me, Friday night after the depletion weight training). Those two workouts were high-intensity using interval training.

- Weight training was done using supersets to maximize heart rate and fat burning.

- Supplements. I took a thermogenic 2 to 3x per day, as well as a thyroid supplement, and EFA's (Dr. Udo's caps). I only took the thyroid supplement (thyrolean) two weeks on/two weeks off, starting after after the first two weeks.

- When fat loss stalled, I went liquid. I don't reccomend it to everyone, but there are some of us who get hell-bent on seeing a certain fat percentage ... I was one of them. So, my "diet" consisted of 4 to 6 protein shakes per day, each one being about 50g - 55g pf protein. I also consumed 2 "real" food meals ... lunch and dinner.

All of that got me down to single digits.

As far a ketosis goes, I never (and still don't) use ketostix. I know I am in ketosis by the funky taste I get in my mouth, as well as the off-smell my hats get from the sweat from my workouts. Kinda smells like acetone.

I think that the AM cardio (always done on empty stomach, with a thermogenic) is key for hitting ketosis. That first workout (cardio in AM, and then weights/cardio in PM) after carb up should be no-holds barred as far as intensity goes. USE THAT GLYCOGEN!! :cool:

Hope that gives you a few tips. If you try all of these and still have stalls, feel free to contact me by Private message or e-mail.

My e-mail address is in my profile.

-- dan

[Trainerdan]

It's early for me (5:45 am) ... Just re-read your post and saw that you are training for a marathon. Hmmm .... Have to give this some thought ...

The only thing I can POSSIBLY think of changing in your workouts schedule to help you enter ketosis faster is to move your intervals from Wed to Tues.

Obviously, no training will occur on Sat or Mon ... hmmm ... I'll keep tossing this one around in my head during the day today to see if I can come up with something.

It will give me somthing to think about while I do my 30 mins on the elliptical this morning. Which is where I am off to right now. :spin:

I'll be back ...

FYI, I coached marathoners for the past 2 years ... as I am a former distance runner. Fun fun fun.

[brumleym]

Trainer Dan, Will try and get that early morning workout in. Right now I opt for a 2 hour lunch workout instead of the god awful mornings. Anyway, think I might have stumbled on a bit of info of why ketosis is so hard for me to attain or record. While reading up on Nootropics (mind boosters) I came upon an article on Coenzyme Q10, a supplement my Doc friend told me I should try. A great little anti-oxident and heart protector with an anti-ketosis effect I guess.

:mad: http://www.smart-drugs.com/smart/info-CoQ10.htm

:mad:

"Coenzyme Q10 prevents the build-up of excessive serum levels of Ketones (Ketosis) [diabetes sufferers' Ketone levels fell by at least 30% in 60% of subjects receiving CoQ10].
Coenzyme Q10 prevents the (free radical induced) oxidation of LDL Cholesterol"

Thought it interesting for the group. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Mike

[Trainerdan]

Wasn't aware of that! Good info ... you taught me something today. :thup:

[allisonm]

Umm ... I am no authority here but Atkins (the king of ketosis-inducing diets) recommends CoQ10. And I thought it was to help induce ketosis. (I bought all the supplements that he recommends for helping to induce ketosis and that was one of them.) I will have to look this up and report back.

I started this low-carb thing exactly seven months ago today and have lost 87 pounds. I take two hefty doses of CoQ10 daily (and have for seven months) and I am very much in ketosis. I turn those little sticks pink every night.

So it may not be the CoQ10. I'll try to get back to you with references from the text. I'm guessing that a long-distance runner doesn't own a copy of Atkins. ;)

Allison

[allisonm]

Hi Mike -

See my reply to you in your other thread on this subject. I put the Atkins info I promised there. I think the real answer to the confusion over the article is expained by Karen's reply to you: ketosis and ketoacidosis are very different.

As for your not getting into ketosis, I see you're new to the site. Have you read about hidden carbs? If you're using any low carb products like Lo Carb bars or even Atkins, you're getting a lot more carbs than are listed on the label. Go to the orange bar at the top of the page, click on Low Carb Tips and Low Carb Tools to learn about hidden carbs.

Allison