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Kandie726
Thu, Oct-06-05, 07:24
I was in class last Friday night and my BIOLOGY Instructor was emphasizing on carbohydrates, protein, and fat. He did say the only proven scientific way for a person to lose weight and keep it off was to cut back on your carbohydrates. So I stated, “So your saying it is recommendable for people to follow low carb diets” that are out right now. He said “NO.” He stated, when people think of low carb they think of fast weight loss, and that’s where people make their mistakes. He also stated, if you are trying to lose weight, you do have to cut back on your carbs, but only making moderation to what you’re currently eating now. Which mean you shouldn’t be cutting out on breads, pasta, or anything else that you can’t eat while on a Low Carb diet. He even said staying at 20 carbs a day was ridiculous. He asked how many people in the classroom have tried a Low Carb Diet… (Most of us raised our hands.) He then asked how many people kept the weight off that they lost…Not one hand was up…

My opinion he could be right to a certain extent…

What’s your opinion?

LOOPS
Thu, Oct-06-05, 07:50
I don't go as low as 20g net carbs, but I've only got a bit of weight to lose. If I had a lot to lose I would do induction level carbs.

More importantly though, I'm doing this WOL for health, not primarily weight loss. That means I don't just 'go off' the plan once I'm done. Breads make me binge, so does pasta. This WOL has helped my depression and anxiety more than any other diet/supplement. After the initial yuck first week or so, I now like this WOL much better than my balanced diet before. This WOL is heaven compared to my restrictive efforts before.

I wonder how many people with their hands down had really done it properly, what plan etc? And had they tailored it so they really loved what they were eating? Were they cutting down on veggies etc thinking low-carb is no carb?

At least your instructor acknowledged lowcarb as something good and positive though. That is so much different to a lot of people.

Loops

browniz30
Thu, Oct-06-05, 08:06
I also wonder if the people that raised thier hands to not keeping the weight off only followed a low carb plan for a "quick fix" weight loss and then after the weight loss went right back to old eating habbits?! this is suspose to be a life style change!! so, of course if you go back to eating "junk", you are gonna gain weight!!! if this is TRULY a lifestyle change and you adopt this way of eating , you WILL NOT GAIN THE WEIGHT BACK!!!

zorra_1
Thu, Oct-06-05, 08:08
I'd say most people don't maintain the weight loss because they don't progress through the phases (OWL, Pre-Maintenance, Maintenance) properly or at all. I also don't think his "point" is limited to LC. Had he asked how many had tried Low Fat and kept the weight off, there probably wouldn't have been a single hand raised either!

Ask your professor if eating 6 doughnuts a day is healthy. That would have been at least half of what I used to eat!

LC certainly aids in weight loss, but some of us are also very concerned about the health benefits of this WOL (lowered blood pressure, drop in triglycerides and cholesterol).

mary_low
Thu, Oct-06-05, 08:16
Some people don't understand that they can't eat certain things every night for the rest of their life. Bread, pasta, rice, sugar. If someone goes from low-carbing to eating those all the time, of course they're going to gain it back. I think the fact that all of those people raised their hands shows the U.S. mentality of instant gratification, it doesn't prove that this is an unsuccessful way to lose weight.

Mary

misskimbee
Thu, Oct-06-05, 08:35
Eating lifestyles like the Atkins diet are just that - LIFESTYLES - and the intent is to stick with it for good....that's a common misconception, and it's why low carb diets get such a bad rap, because people assume they can go back to eating crap...

Not so!

Atkins is for life, for me!

Kandie726
Thu, Oct-06-05, 11:33
I've done it honestly...The only thing about it, I wasn't eating the foods I like, and losing weight...Now I have been eating what I like, but cutting the carbs in half of what I used to eat, And I've lost 9 pounds and counting...9 Times out of 10. You don't stick to it. I say this because experience and people always saying "I cheated today." How you gone cheat when it's a LIFESTYLE. Not one person come to this thread and say that they have been honestly 100% Low Carb without something here and there. They may say they have, but let's be for real. I believe that's what my Instructor was trying to say. So why not just modify what you eat and cut half the carbs you eat on a daily basis, still eating the foods you like...He was just stating that the faster the weight comes off the more than likely you will gain it back, and even more. Slower-Vice Versa.

cs_carver
Thu, Oct-06-05, 11:46
So why not just modify what you eat and cut half the carbs you eat on a daily basis, still eating the foods you like...

In my case, this simply didn't wouldn't won't work. Half of what I used to eat is still too much. Carbs call carbs, in my book. When I go pretty low, I don't get the insulin surge / blood sugar crash that drives me to binge insanely. When I go pretty low, I am free from the urge to overeat. When I go pretty low, I CAN eat less.

Half is too much. So I used to "like" a lot of high-carb foods, and as far as that goes, pretty healthy ones. Some days I miss them. But I don't miss the heartburn, the guilt, the empty wrappers hidden so no-one would find them, the feeling of never being able to trust myself, the sleepiness.

Fortunately, I can live a comfortable food life eating stuff I like in the LC world.

kwikdriver
Thu, Oct-06-05, 12:06
He even said staying at 20 carbs a day was ridiculous. He asked how many people in the classroom have tried a Low Carb Diet… (Most of us raised our hands.) He then asked how many people kept the weight off that they lost…Not one hand was up…

The same is true of any "diet." Why low carbing is attacked for something that is universal to all weight loss is a mystery to me, but so it is.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who raised their hands never followed a genuine low carb diet, anyway. I've known people who were "watching their fat" by counting the fat grams in the candy bars they ate, and I've seen people who were on "low carb diets" do the same thing with bread and so on: instead of dropping to 60 or so grams of carb, which is a real low carb diet, they would go from maybe 250 grams of carb in a day to 150 or 200, which isn't a low carb diet at all. But they think it was because they would cut out extra bread with dinner, or only have one bagel for breakfast and so on. That's just cutting calories, not really cutting carbs. To me, it isn't a low carb diet unless it can induce ketosis in the absence of calorie restriction, and most casual low carb dieters never get to that point.

Kandie726
Thu, Oct-06-05, 14:48
I understand all points made in this thread...I consider my self a low carber otherwise I wouldn't be apart of this forum...So is it just fortunate that I lost some weight but cutting back on carbs? Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?

mary_low
Thu, Oct-06-05, 15:01
Whatever works for you is great. No one is saying that your choice is wrong, just maybe wrong for them. Some people have to stay under 50 grams to continue losing, while others can have much more than that.

Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?
Are you losing weight? If so, then no, you don't need to stay under 60 carbs. And if that is less than you ate before, then I would consider that low carb. The main thing here is what type of carbs you eat. If you consider the fact that a lot of people in the newbies forum are doing atkins induction which restricts us to 20 carbs a day, then maybe you can understand why some of us are so anti-carb. I don't think anyone here is trying to blast you or anything, they're just stating what they believe, just like your instructor was, and just like you are. People are going to have differences of opinion which is fine. Everyone here is very supportive, but very opinionated. Don't take it personally.

Mary

kwikdriver
Thu, Oct-06-05, 15:38
I understand all points made in this thread...I consider my self a low carber otherwise I wouldn't be apart of this forum...So is it just fortunate that I lost some weight but cutting back on carbs? Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?

Not exactly, and probably I shouldn't have attached a specific number to it. But in general, most people don't enjoy the ketogenic benefits of low carbing unless their carbs are cut drastically, down to around 60, judging by most low carb diets. And those benefits are what make it a great approach to food: reduced appetite, a feeling of well being, and the ability to go long periods at a caloric deficit without feeling like you are suffering. Someone who skips an extra piece of bread because they are "watching their carbs" isn't going to get those benefits, and so isn't in a position to really appreciate low carbing.

zajack
Thu, Oct-06-05, 16:33
How you gone cheat when it's a LIFESTYLE. Not one person come to this thread and say that they have been honestly 100% Low Carb without something here and there. They may say they have, but let's be for real.

Learning how to move into maintenance is scary for some. :agree: It means that you now have to find out how to proceed and make it a lifetime WOE without slipping backwards....and that needs to be done with caution. Regardless of how anyone loses weight, or what plan is used...people here (those who have had long term weight issues) know that an awareness regarding the dangers of indulgence needs to be retained for life.

Because it is a lifestyle, though...we really shouldnt call it a "cheat" when you indulge in a piece of cake at a wedding or a dessert on your anniversary dinner. Many people in this site are panicky about those indulgences......and for good reason...they've been heavy and dont want to go back !!

But there's a difference between finishing off a dozen crispy kremes and indulging in a dessert on a special occassion. :lol: For instance...here's a quote from the Atkins site regarding life after goal has been reached:

Does this mean you can't ever eat another piece of Grandma's pumpkin pie? If you were previously an uncontrolled carbohydrate addict with an obesity problem that only the Atkins Nutritional Approach™ has been able to cure, the answer is probably no. But if you were not addicted and have learned how to modify your behavior, then you might cautiously see if you can indulge occasionally without causing noticeable aftereffects.

Trigger foods—ones to which you are addicted—are the ones you can't stop eating, and they are the very foods you should not add back to your dietary regimen. It might be peanuts, chocolate, potato chips or something else. If you find you are always planning when you can have your next portion of that food, cut it out altogether, or be sure to have it just once a week, perhaps as a Friday-night treat. Only you know whether the first or the second strategy will work better for you. Remember, it's about what works

I indulge occassionally...I also dont beat myself up for it. I'm conscious of what I'm doing and super careful to make it a rare treat and not a daily event (or even weekly event for that matter). Heck...before this diet, I never even realized how carbs affected my body...now I do and i have a healthy respect for the dangers they present to me....I'm not about to ever go back to eating carbs regularly. The reality is that no one who has lived with weight issues should ever take those "special occassion" (at least that's what they are now) foods for granted and begin eating them regularly.

I guess I just wanted to point out that having a strawberry daquiri or dessert when on vacation or celebrating an anniversary (or something along those lines) does not necessarily mean that you havent been true to this WOE...and it's not something that you need to beat yourself up for unless it was an uncontrolled feeding frenzy. :lol:

black57
Thu, Oct-06-05, 17:08
What is 20 grams? It is only the beginning of low carb it isn't the definition of low carb. The first 2 weeks ( minnimum ).However, I could easily live on 20 grams of carbs a day. AND, you would not be able to look at what I eat and call it unhealthy. I also eat lc pastas and bread on ocaision. So you can eat those things and be very low carb.
It is no biggie to NOT eat pastas regularly.

It takes strength to remove the large amounts of carbohydrates in our system. It took over 2 years for me to be able to function comfortably on a low amount of carbs. Not bad considering I never gave carbohydrates a second thought in the past. It isn't something that you do and then stop, then do then stop. Native Americans thrived on fewer than 20 grams. They thrived and had multitudes of health benefits from it. As-a-matter-of-fact their health diminished emensely once they were put on a high carb diet. The funny part is than most of humankind isn't fairing much better. The primary cause of diabetes is the imbalance of glucose/insulin. We have learned how this affects blood pressure,cholesterol and even our reproductive hormones.

The biology teacher needs to reflect of the history of biology. The history of Native Americans, Inuits, Aborigines and many more hunter gatherers that have no access to Wonder Bread or Dunkin' Donuts. I consider these people "canaries". In the past,coal minors would use canaries to inform then on the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning. If a canary died, they had evidence of carbon monoxide poisoning and the left the mine. Here we see Native Americans, and the likes, becoming sickly by adding carbs to their diet. We can't stand and look at them and say there is nothing wrong with a high carb diet. :agree:

nawchem
Thu, Oct-06-05, 17:30
I understand all points made in this thread...I consider my self a low carber otherwise I wouldn't be apart of this forum...So is it just fortunate that I lost some weight but cutting back on carbs? Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?

When I first did "lowcarb" about 10 years ago, I just avoided foods that raised my blood sugar. I didn't quit wheat tortillas or fruit or milk I lost like mad. Not so at this time in my life. Maybe too much insulin now, lower metabolism, medications, whatever I have to significantly lower my carbs to lose and its slow going. I don't think you can count on having the same body forever.

yenny58
Fri, Oct-07-05, 05:35
I understand all points made in this thread...I consider my self a low carber otherwise I wouldn't be apart of this forum...So is it just fortunate that I lost some weight but cutting back on carbs? Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?

Kandie, sounds like you should be a PP user. I stay between 30-60 carbs a day and I am dropping between 1-2 pounds a week. I understand your point. But, I also understand everyone elses. Some people need to be in Katosis so they don't feel those draws to sugar. I am sort of one of them. I have to watch what kind of carbs I eat. If I spend my carbs on the ice cream/sweets, I tend to get the urge back for more...If I use them for the "real" carbs, veggies, fruits, raw potato's I DON'T get that urge. And PP's plan allows more carbs.

The average 2,000 calorie diet is to take in 300 carbs a day...so, I do believe that if anyone on a 2,000 calorie diet (or whatever your normal calorie/carb intake is) cuts it by at least 1/2 of that, and add exercise you are bound to drop some weight, that is just my opinion.

Good conversation :thup:

cs_carver
Fri, Oct-07-05, 05:51
So is it just fortunate that I lost some weight but cutting back on carbs? Or are you saying I must stay under 60 carbs a day to lose weight and to be on a low carber?

When I was your age, almost anything worked. Now that I'm twice your age, life and my body are much more demanding.

It's probable that if you lose the weight you want to lose, and maintain that loss, and don't overeat carbs to the point that insulin resistance sets in (presuming that happens in relation to carb intake and not just on its own), you will be fine. How are your mother and grandmother doing with weight maintenance? What does your gene pool suggest might happen by the time you're 40 or 50?

If you start a significant yo-yo pattern (>20 # in my book), you might find that simple carb reduction stops working, and you might need to follow a more tightly defined plan.

Good luck.

black57
Fri, Oct-07-05, 09:36
Ditto CS Carver, Not only did weight come off easier when I was younger, I never really had much to lose. Suddenly my weight jumps up 40 lbs without me changing the way I ate. Just like mom. She became diabetic about 3 years after reaching menopause. My sister, who is younger than I, had a hysterectomy ( surgical menopause )...3 years later she became diabetic. So you have to look at your immediate family and allow it to dictate what your weight dilemmas, or fortunes, will be.

black57
Fri, Oct-07-05, 09:58
I've done it honestly...The only thing about it, I wasn't eating the foods I like, and losing weight...Now I have been eating what I like, but cutting the carbs in half of what I used to eat, And I've lost 9 pounds and counting...9 Times out of 10. You don't stick to it. I say this because experience and people always saying "I cheated today." How you gone cheat when it's a LIFESTYLE. Not one person come to this thread and say that they have been honestly 100% Low Carb without something here and there. They may say they have, but let's be for real. I believe that's what my Instructor was trying to say. So why not just modify what you eat and cut half the carbs you eat on a daily basis, still eating the foods you like...He was just stating that the faster the weight comes off the more than likely you will gain it back, and even more. Slower-Vice Versa.


It is no big deal to have a cheat. If I added a slice of Wheat toast for breakfast, today, I would still be eating low carb. I would still be eating much fewer carbohydrates than I did back in the day. If I had a Snicker bar today, I would still be eating a diet that is much lower in carbohydrates that I did back in the day. I normally ate 2 pieces of toast for breakfast if I even ate breakfast. Two pieces of bread, atleast, for lunch. Dinner was pretty much the same. I also had in between snacks of chips, candy etc. This is a sample of my pre-Atkins lifestyle.

If I have a cheat by eating a candy bar, which has happened, it will be one of those little bars that are given at Halloween. If I have a slice of regular bread, it is one or to bites...seriously. So cheating does not make a low carber an unlowcarber. Low carbing gives the dieter the control.

SadLady
Fri, Oct-07-05, 11:40
Some people are luckier than others. For me to control my diabetes I have to have a diet of less than 20 gr of carbs, about 80 % fat and no more than 1,000 calories a day. So I am SOL. I have to be very strick or my bs are up and they are up very high. With this diet, I can keep them within normal range 85 to 90 and I don't need any medication. That is worth it to me.

UhhFrostin
Fri, Oct-07-05, 17:05
My chemistry professor tried to convince our class that by going on a low carb diet, you are killing your brain cells, because some 60% of the carbs you eat, go straight to your brain. So by not eating carbs, you are starving your brain, and killing the cells. So, he says people stay on a law carb diet because they get "stupider" (which is not even a word - but that's what he said).

pinkclouds
Fri, Oct-07-05, 17:12
My chemistry professor tried to convince our class that by going on a low carb diet, you are killing your brain cells, because some 60% of the carbs you eat, go straight to your brain. So by not eating carbs, you are starving your brain, and killing the cells. So, he says people stay on a law carb diet because they get "stupider" (which is not even a word - but that's what he said).

Uhhhhh, WOW. I have no response to that. Except that maybe he ought to start looking for a new job.

kwikdriver
Fri, Oct-07-05, 17:26
My chemistry professor tried to convince our class that by going on a low carb diet, you are killing your brain cells, because some 60% of the carbs you eat, go straight to your brain. So by not eating carbs, you are starving your brain, and killing the cells. So, he says people stay on a law carb diet because they get "stupider" (which is not even a word - but that's what he said).

Since his brain is made of cholesterol, ask him how much cholesterol he needs to eat to keep his brain big. Or keep it from growing any smaller, as it were.

upback
Fri, Oct-07-05, 20:12
Under "Plans" above on the green bar.

Life without Bread

In Lutz and Allan's definition, the low-carb diet should include no more than 72 grams of carbohydrates a day.

Everyone has "their own carb limit" just like Atkins w/his CCL.

Christal
Fri, Oct-07-05, 22:51
I don't post "cheat" threads either, simply because I consider this my life and you only go around once.

I got married last November and I ate some of my wedding cake. When it was the holiday and my MIL made some low carb cheesecake covered with blueberries, strawberries and raspberries, I ate that too and I didn't worry about it.

This way of eating is necessary for my health. I won't go back to any other "diet" and, in fact, have stopped thinking of it as a "diet." It really is a "way of eating" I will adhere to for life. It's the only thing that works. Now, as far as others go, well, they'll have to decide what they want to do, just like I did. :)

Annabel33
Sat, Oct-08-05, 16:24
I wonder if this fitness instructor (first post) has ever had to diet in his life? Usually the ones that haven't are the ones who can claim these absolutes, without having a true meaning of what people struggle with every day of their lives.

Without going low carb I would never have discovered that I had a gluten allergy... Thousands of other people can claim this too.
People are individuals and you have to do what works for you and no-one else.

Lisa N
Sat, Oct-08-05, 17:19
My chemistry professor tried to convince our class that by going on a low carb diet, you are killing your brain cells, because some 60% of the carbs you eat, go straight to your brain. So by not eating carbs, you are starving your brain, and killing the cells. So, he says people stay on a law carb diet because they get "stupider" (which is not even a word - but that's what he said).

Knowing what I know now, I think I'd be looking for a new instructor. ;)
That not being possible most of the time, you might want to point your chemistry professor in the direction of studies showing that the majority of the cells in the body can use fatty acids and ketones (you might want to mention the ATP cycle) in place of glucose with nary a problem. You might also want to mention that the liver is quite capable of creating enough glucose for the cells of the body that cannot use fatty acids or ketones (specifically those without mitochondria) via gluconeogenesis from the protein we eat. Me...I've been a low carber (30 grams per day max) for over 4 years. Am I getting 'stupider' (still chuckling over that word...and you say he's a professor?)...my employer doesn't seem to think so and I'm responsible as a subject matter expert/support for a large number of people as well as trainer for the new employees in my unit. I think they might have noticed by now if my intellect was slipping. ;)