Low-Carb Sanctimoniousness

[ysabella]

We all have different amounts of success with diet, exercise, and weight loss. Lots of members on this site ask other members for assistance in determining why they are having trouble losing weight, help in tweaking their plan, and so on. This kind of support, help, constructive criticism, and tough love is what we're all here for.
I have made some good personal friends from this forum so I know well that the quality of people here is, generally, very high indeed. And I understand that when people have success, they want to share that success.

But sometimes, I see things on here that drive me crazy. So I'm going to vent them here in the War Zone.

Two things to always remember:
1. Every Body Is Different.
2. Everyone's Life Situation Is Different.

From those two things, let's get a little more specific.

What works for your body may not work for mine.
For those of you who have lost weight using low-carb techniques, congratulations. That's great. And now you are an expert on how you can lose weight. But you are not an expert on how I can lose weight, because I'm a whole other person and I am not you.
Some people here can just diet strictly and drop pounds without any exercise at all. Well, lucky you; for me, that never works, and it never will work. Some people can eat lots of artificial sweeteners with no problem, and others don't like them, or can't lose weight when they eat them. I don't expect you to do everything like me. Don't expect me to do what you do.
Example: "How dare you consider gastric surgery. You just need to drop your daily chewing gum and you'll lose weight. Gum-chewing stalls everyone!"

What works for your lifestyle may not work for mine.
Some people can work out for two hours every day and buy expensive specialty foods, and that's great. Some people have kids and a job and don't have much spare time or cash. Some people can eat the same foods every day for very long stretches of time, and some can't stand to do that. Some people can cook really well, some can't cook at all, and some have to travel a lot. We all have to come up with a plan that is realistic in the framework of our real lives.
Example: "You buy the cheap bulk chicken thighs? Don't you know they abuse and mock those chickens and kill them inhumanely? Why don't you buy Earthsong WhaleHarmony DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken for $7.99 a pound like I do?"

Sometimes, people really aren't doing anything "wrong."
Drawing a further conclusion from the points above, just because someone isn't doing what you do doesn't mean they are doing it all wrong. If they chose a plan different from yours, that isn't wrong. Tweaking a plan isn't wrong either. And before you go sailing in to chastise people about not being "by the book" enough, try going some pages back in the discussion and see what's really going on.
Example: "OMG, how can you do Atkins?! Schwarzbein is *natural*!"

Why do you question other people's motivation?
I "want it enough," I'm "focused enough," I'm "trying hard enough," and I'm "sticking to it enough," thanks. If you think my difficulty in losing weight somehow equates to some kind of moral failing on my part or a lack of character, go away. If you require me to set my goals the way you set yours to prove to you that my thought processes are worthy enough, go away. If you think, in any way, that my problems stem from not adhering to your personal system/ritual/gris-gris, go away. Critiquing my personality is not "constructive."
Example: "Why haven't you signed up for my Egg & Spirulina Fast Challenge? I guess you just don't care about your body."

[Christal]

Ysabella!!! LOL

Not only are you so on-target in what you are saying, but you are so funny too!!! Thank you so much for your fantastic examples!! You are now my hero of the forum!! :)

[Dodger]

Sugar,

You wouldn't have those negative feelings if you were more motivated in your diet, and followed my plan along with taking the 35 essential supplements that I have found to be the key to eternal happiness. :D

[tamarian]

Hey ysabella, nice to see you back!

And yes, I guess some take it up as a religion, and it's hard to argue religion :)

Wa'il

[notsweet]

lmao...lmao....and as was so eloquently written...ysbella...I agree...I think deep down this has been the undertoe to ALL diets...the one size fits all mentality has really done alot of damage to the american pscyche, thighs and diet..lmao... :thup:


Sugar,

You wouldn't have those negative feelings if you were more motivated in your diet, and followed my plan along with taking the 35 essential supplements that I have found to be the key to eternal happiness. :D

[KaiNiki]

Example: "You buy the cheap bulk chicken thighs? Don't you know they abuse and mock those chickens and kill them inhumanely? Why don't you buy Earthsong WhaleHarmony DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken for $7.99 a pound like I do?"



Ysabella,
This was hilarious, I about died laughing, rock on!
Also I looked at your profile, is that you in a triathalon? How cool!!! Is how you trained in your journal or gym log? I would love to know.

[Yaberhoo]

Dodger, you're terrible! :lol:


ysabella, very well said. Although, I think you might lose faster if you do like I do. When eating, stand on your head. It makes the muscles in your gastrointestinal tract work harder, so you burn more calories! *snicker*

[dreamnfae]

I totally agree, and what I would like to say sort of goes along with what you said...I absolutely HATE it when some one tells me that if I am not loosing, then there must be something wrong with me physically, emotionally, or otherwise, that I need to see a doctor,(not all of us have insurance, or can afford to go to the doctor, just to be told that the only thing wrong is that I am fat, well DUH!! I never noticed!!), that I need to take anti-depressants (so I had a bad dang day, so what?? You've NEVER had one? Lucky you!). I completely get where you are comming from, and Thank you for standing up and saying so!!

[potatofree]

Two words...Bless. You. :D

Sometimes when you find success, it's hard NOT to want to show everyone you've found the One True Way (pat. pending). However, delivering the message with a sledgehammer tends to have the opposite effect intended, especially when your way may not be the ONLY way.

I'm sure they're fun at parties. :rolleyes:

[Eri Z]

Why don't you buy Earthsong WhaleHarmony DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken for $7.99 a pound like I do?"


I get them at my local GreenGrocery27thGenerationCoop for only $7.95

:lol:

You raise some very valid points...especially about lifestyle and doing what you can.

[Zuleikaa]

I'm laughing. But it's so true. When I see it happening, sometimes I want to cry. Or lash out.

[Kristine]

You've raised some good points... y'know what I'll add to that? A lot of what you're complaining about would be avoided if people would fill out their freakin' profiles!!! That drives me insane. The advice I'd dole out to a 400-lb male is totally different from what I'd say to a underweight 19-year-old model-wanna-be. What I'd suggest to someone in Australia is often different from what I'd suggest to someone here in Ontario. So if you don't want people assuming anything about you, give us something to work with!

The other half of the equation - people should LOOK at profiles before offering up advice. It drives me nuts when I see someone say, "you're not allowed berries on induction!" to someone whose profile clearly states another plan.

I "want it enough," I'm "focused enough," I'm "trying hard enough," and I'm "sticking to it enough," thanks. If you think my difficulty in losing weight somehow equates to some kind of moral failing on my part or a lack of character, go away.

Okay, but don't whine and cry in a new thread every other day about your cheating. If you cheat, take responsibility for it and move on. If you don't want comments, don't post about it.

[KryssiMc]

You've raised some good points... y'know what I'll add to that? A lot of what you're complaining about would be avoided if people would fill out their freakin' profiles!!! That drives me insane. The advice I'd dole out to a 400-lb male is totally different from what I'd say to a underweight 19-year-old model-wanna-be.

I agree that you should fill out your profile, but even that can be misleading. For example, some people put down shorter term goals instead of their ultimate goals and I've seen people on here flame those for not setting their sights higher.

Also, smaller boned people get flamed for having set their goal weight too low. Like the OP said...only YOU know YOU.

Okay, but don't whine and cry in a new thread every other day about your cheating. If you cheat, take responsibility for it and move on. If you don't want comments, don't post about it.

I agree with this. It's hard when you are sticking to your diet and to see threads like "Is There Any Way To Cheat Successfully On LC". I guess you don't have to post back, but this is one thing that drives me nuts.

[ProfGumby]

You've raised some good points... y'know what I'll add to that? A lot of what you're complaining about would be avoided if people would fill out their freakin' profiles!!! That drives me insane. The advice I'd dole out to a 400-lb male is totally different from what I'd say to a underweight 19-year-old model-wanna-be. What I'd suggest to someone in Australia is often different from what I'd suggest to someone here in Ontario. So if you don't want people assuming anything about you, give us something to work with!

The other half of the equation - people should LOOK at profiles before offering up advice. It drives me nuts when I see someone say, "you're not allowed berries on induction!" to someone whose profile clearly states another plan.



Okay, but don't whine and cry in a new thread every other day about your cheating. If you cheat, take responsibility for it and move on. If you don't want comments, don't post about it.

Ooooooooooooooh! SlAP! :D

And BTW, I get what you are saying about what is available or works in one country/region may not work or be avialable in another. Example, in Austrailia you cannot get "Earthsong WhaleHarmony DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken" at all. But King James Earthraised, Aboriginal Spirit Walaby chops are just as good.... :lol:

[KimNWI]

Sugar,

You wouldn't have those negative feelings if you were more motivated in your diet, and followed my plan along with taking the 35 essential supplements that I have found to be the key to eternal happiness. :D

ROFL LMAO this really tickled me.

The part about the chicken thighs has me still giggling too :lol: .

I don't know you at all yet ysabella but after reading this thread I think I would really really like you :D . There have been quite a few times I have felt some of the feelings you described and been frustrated when someone acted that way. There are a couple I avoid reading their posts all together just cause it always seems to be like that and bugs me.

We are all so different from different places, different stages in our lives, income brackets, emotional, physical and just everything its impossible to rule someone elses eating from the internet. I also appreciate any words of encouragement or tips anyone gives me in a helpful and kind way. Its the 'know it all' thing that drives me nuts.

KimNWI

[kyrasdad]

Wow, Ysa, I've missed you.


What works for your body may not work for mine.
For those of you who have lost weight using low-carb techniques, congratulations. That's great. And now you are an expert on how you can lose weight. But you are not an expert on how I can lose weight, because I'm a whole other person and I am not you.
Some people here can just diet strictly and drop pounds without any exercise at all. Well, lucky you; for me, that never works, and it never will work.

I've learned that we don't even know what we think we know.

While something may work for a person for 6 months or a year, and they think they have it all figured out, that too can change. I lost most of what I've lost without exercise. Fast forward to today, and if I don't ride or walk, I don't lose weight. If anyone thinks they have it figured out, lose 80 or 100 pounds. You literally have a different body and you can't treat it the same. What applies for me doesn't apply to everyone. What applies to me now may not apply to me in 6 months.

That's not to say we shouldn't share observations. I think even some criticism can be useful as long as it's coming from the right mindset. But it's nuts to think one size fits all on something as complex as weightloss.

[ItsTheWooo]

As someone who has been guilty of at least a couple of those, let me just apologize to anyone I may have offended.

Even though I myself have pushed my way as the way (specifically with the calorie counting thing to break stalls), I can also relate to some other ones. Like, people who arbitrarily peg some vague dietary element as a universal "staller". For one, logically I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that a food can stall you. I believe calories (eating too much energy) can stall you. I believe some foods can make it easier to not lose weight just as some foods make it easier to lose weight (because foods affect how our bodies work, which affects metabolic rate). I don't believe if you eat (for example) aspartame or sugar alcohols you will stall, even people who think it applies to them. So it always annoys me when people say things like "don't eat protein bars, you'll stall because of sugar alcohols" or "don't eat artificial sweeteners, it makes your body dump sugar and release insulin and you'll stall".

I eat artificial sweeteners and lost weight just fine. In fact, one of the most satisfying & weight loss effective meals I can think of is an atkins advantage bar believe it or not. Satiety & blood sugar wise, it's right up there with eggs. When I want to lose weight I will actually eat advantage bars for this reason.

[Nancy LC]

I liked the original post. Good job! All too often people decide they're the "keepers of the diet" and they know exactly how other people should be following the diet and if you're not you're committing heresy. I've seen some amazing posts from people, not here fortunately, displaying this sort of mentality. Its actually funny once you get past the irritation. One wonders if people are that assinine in person and if so, what must that be like?

Actually, I'd probably have to look no further than my brother-in-law to answer my own question...

DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken:roll: Extremely funny. :D

[MissScruff]

Okay, but don't whine and cry in a new thread every other day about your cheating. If you cheat, take responsibility for it and move on. If you don't want comments, don't post about it.



That is what has been driving me nuts around here!

Question: what do you say when someone is asking about their foods...or stating that they are on induction but eating nuts and berries???? It has gotten to the point that I am afraid to say much of anything!

[LadyArya]

Example: "You buy the cheap bulk chicken thighs? Don't you know they abuse and mock those chickens and kill them inhumanely? Why don't you buy Earthsong WhaleHarmony DolphinSafe Wholistic Chicken for $7.99 a pound like I do?"


As someone who was once told on this board that I should try to rearrage my finances so I can buy Wholisitc Chicken instead of what I can get on sale at Walmart, I agree! Really, I'm 25, living in an area whos real estate prices have skyrocketed 30% in the last year, trying to pay bills and spending most of my paycheck on hurricane supplies (including stashing money so I can evacuate if I have to). "Rearranging my finances" is not an option. Sheesh, it's not like I'm buying myself a new porsche every other month. Yeah ok, I took that one personally. Who do any of us think we are to tell someone else they know better how to spend our money than we do. Personally, I'll take keeping creditors off my back anyday over buying free range fowl.

But I'm not bitter. Really I'm not :lol:

That said, I may have been guilty of one or more of the above mentioned crimes. I just hope no one ever took any of my posts with malace since I always wrote them with the best intentions and meant them as "this is what works for me, but it may or may not work for you". I think if we all read posts with the mindset of "this is just the writer's opinion" and not "the gospel according to JohnDoeLowCarber" (sorry if that's someone's username :lol: ) we might be better able to take the advice for what it's worth. Maybe... but that's just my opinion :D

[Nancy LC]

I think its all about how you present it. If you say something like, "What worked for me was to avoid nuts and berries in the first two weeks. I added them in very carefully later." You aren't passing judgement on someone else, you're just sharing what you did that you think worked for you.

[LadyArya]

Now that I'm thinking about it.... do you think it would be easier to give out advice if maybe there was another field on the right side that says "phase" or something? So it would look like:

Plan:
Phase:
Stats:
BF:
Progress:
Location:

I don't know if every plan has phases, but for those that do, maybe it would be easier if we knew "Atkins, OWL" or "SB, induction"

Just a thought

[potatofree]

It is in the presentation, really. There's a world of difference between advice and lecturing even if the same information is being given out. Having also been told my living where I can't find "Wholistic dolphin-safe chicken" is my own choice... like I should just be able to pack up and MOVE to where I can buy different things :rolleyes: then seeing the same person play the passive victim when HER choices were questioned made me even question staying on the board. Had the person(people, actually, since others have suggested my situation in life is merely an excuse not to do it RIGHT...) expressed and understanding of my situation rather than just assuming I was making excuses, I may have actually listened.

Some people are more interested in being RIGHT than being terribly helpful. It seems to make them feel validated to make themselves responsible for the choices of others. I can't wrap my mind around wasting energy feeling resentment after the computer is turned off because a person on the other side of the country refuses to quit eating "frankenfoods"!

[ysabella]

Bwah! Great replies! I really didn't know what to expect. :)
I'll go visit some of your journals, you nice people. It's Friday and I'm feeling saucy.

notsweet, sing it. I deeply dislike the way magazine articles label desserts as "sinful." It's being "good" to stick to one's diet, evil and wrong to eat something lavish in calories, and currently there's a real movement to pin blame on certain foods and ingredients for everything. To quote a nutritionist from an article I read the other day on sugary sodas, "There are no good and bad foods, only good and bad diets." There is a time and place for something lavish, even when dieting, and engaging all these weird guilt and shame feelings is counterproductive.

It's like what Wa'il said - it becomes like discussing religion, sometimes. (Hi, Wa'il! :wave: ) I've had some success recently, so you can bet I try to replicate the same conditions day to day, week to week, to try to continue it. I can see how people get obsessive about it. But I can also see that this is what works for me, right now, and while I'd be happy to discuss it I don't expect everyone to start on the Ysabella Program right away (only $49.95! Plus free Ginsu knives!). Heh, especially if it stops working next week. :rolleyes:

Kristine, your point is good - when people ask specifically for a review of their food intake, or ask for "ass-kicking" to stick to their exercise plan, they should take criticisms gracefully - even if they are annoyed by some of them. We can't be afraid to point out to people that hourly Twinkies are generally inconsistent with Induction, etc. We just need to disassociate the person from the problem, and they need to understand that criticism of their food intake isn't criticism of them personally...and that sometimes the truth really is annoying and inconvenient.
And it's true that we can only know what people choose to share with us, on the forum. We can't know the whole picture. Sometimes there are real barriers to understanding someone's situation - if they aren't a very good computer user and can't figure out the interface, if they're too ashamed to even talk about some things, and so on. All we can do is try to be nice and respectful and hopefully people can overcome.

ItsTheWooo, if someone says they stall from sweeteners, or that they don't, all I can do is believe them. I won't assume it applies to me, though. I think we all have to observe our own bodies and what happens with sweeteners, calories, etc. Sometimes there's a secondary element - maybe when someone makes something tasty with sweeteners, they always eat too much, so they stay away. Maybe other people get a five-day bellyache from Atkins bars and avoid them for that reason. People with certain social philosophies may prefer avoiding 'chemical' sweeteners or soy products. All of these are personal points of view, they are all equally valid, and people have to make their own decisions.

MissScruff, I hear you. A person who posts that they are eating nuts and berries on Induction is making a mistake and could use some help. Maybe they are a vegan with a soy allergy, maybe they are part squirrel, or (more likely) maybe they are doing Induction based on what their sister's best friend's mom's cousin's uncle's girlfriend's coworker's cat's brother told them.

Incidentally, I'm not pretending that I never got on anybody's nerves around here, believe me. :p

[Yaberhoo]

We can't be afraid to point out to people that hourly Twinkies are generally inconsistent with Induction, etc.

They're not part of induction??? :eek: *gasp!*

[TrishkaD]

Amen Sister! I absolutely agree, although the vast majority of people here are nice, I get tired of hearing that "someone" is doing something wrong because they aren't doing it exactly your way. Don't get me wrong, if I ask for the advice I'll take all advice, I may not follow it, but you get me....I love your sense of humor. Thanks for posting that.

[MeBLady]

I agree with this. It's hard when you are sticking to your diet and to see threads like "Is There Any Way To Cheat Successfully On LC". I guess you don't have to post back, but this is one thing that drives me nuts.

LOL, stuff like that is annoying.....I have a hard time with reading posts about indulging in the LC treats and processed foods. Not because I am judgmental, but because I am trying hard to stay away from all of that, and it does bring a temptation.

I tend to hang out in the Newbie threads and answer posts, cause I do feel that I have been around here long enough to see the common issues that come up in the beginning, and have learned enough to perhaps help someone else just starting. I have a selfish motive as well -- if I talk about these things, it keeps ME motivated and reinforces what I need to do for myself that works for me. Now the maintenance threads scare me....I am lurking and learning.

About the only thing I tend to actually "preach" is reading the book for your plan and sticking to natural foods....and I am pretty convinced on these two things being "best" way, but not the "only" way, and not necessarily the "liveable" way for each individual. Then again, a 20 year old living a healthy lifestyle with 10 pounds to lose may not have the same health concerns as myself -- someone pushing 40 with years of nutricianal neglect that felt like death warmed over prior to LCing.

I've learned that we don't even know what we think we know.

While something may work for a person for 6 months or a year, and they think they have it all figured out, that too can change. I lost most of what I've lost without exercise. Fast forward to today, and if I don't ride or walk, I don't lose weight. If anyone thinks they have it figured out, lose 80 or 100 pounds. You literally have a different body and you can't treat it the same. What applies for me doesn't apply to everyone. What applies to me now may not apply to me in 6 months.

That's not to say we shouldn't share observations. I think even some criticism can be useful as long as it's coming from the right mindset. But it's nuts to think one size fits all on something as complex as weightloss.

As someone who has been doing this 6 months, my ears burned a little in reading this. I haven't run across too many problems, I've lost pretty consistantly, any minor problems I've had I've been able to find an answer either in my book or somewhere in this forum. I haven't found it hard to figure out what works <for me>, and I am estatic at my accomplishments....but you are so right, sometimes in that euphoria and regained confidence we can forget that we don't know "everything".

My weight loss slowed in the last month, looks like I am stuck exercising these last pounds off. I've also had to lower my protein portions to the minimum requirement for my new weight, as I have been overeating....I've discovered that I can't eat like a 200 pound person anymore. I feel lost in thinking about maintenance, scared to move into transition in fear that I am about to head into the "hard part". Many, many issues I still have yet to experience and learn about.

[WyoDiva]

Every point you raised is SO valid, Ysabella. Whether it's on this forum or in the 'real' world, I'm weary of folks trying to impose their weight, their drinking habits, their diets, their relationships, and their spirituality on me as THE ONE TRUE WAY without regard for me, my body, and my experience. Baaaaaaaaaaaaloney.

If folks could try to POST instead of IMPOSE, we'd be an even bigger, happier low-carb family...lol.

Thanks for the laughs - sure needed them on this dreary Monday (which is a bit dreary simply because it is MONDAY). ;)

[Wyvrn]

I don't care what plan, or lack of plan someone else follows but when people present incorrect or misleading information about plans (a classic example is the belief that Atkins is a high-protein diet), that can be misleading to people - some with serious health problems - who are looking for good info about the various plans on this forum.

Wyv

[triplemom]

they are doing Induction based on what their sister's best friend's mom's cousin's uncle's girlfriend's coworker's cat's brother told them.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Love those advice-toting cats (and their brother)!

[MissScruff]

I don't care what plan, or lack of plan someone else follows but when people present incorrect or misleading information about plans (a classic example is the belief that Atkins is a high-protein diet), that can be misleading to people - some with serious health problems - who are looking for good info about the various plans on this forum.

Wyv
Amen! Gets a gal in trouble though!

[JaneDough]

But sometimes, I see things on here that drive me crazy. So I'm going to vent them here in the War Zone.

SNARKY. I like it!

[ysabella]

Wyvrn, with any given plan, there is the book to go to, and most LC plans have official web sites. People who want to research the hard data on low-carb eating plans should not be browsing Internet discussion forums for it, for heaven's sake.

You know, mulberry trees are the tool of evil robots (http://midwinter.com/~lch/mulberry.html). It's true! I read it on the Internet!

But they will find help and recipes here, of course. There is certainly some great information, including links to scientific studies.
And, there is nothing wrong with looking in this forum and seeing that other people managed to figure out what works for them, even if it meant diverging from a plan somewhat. Seeing the differences between people can make a huge difference in someone's motivation and their belief that maybe they can find a way to succeed.

Tweaks: They're What's For Dinner.

[Beeblebrox]

Great post, ysabella. This forum is pretty good, though there are some "militant" comments here and there. To be frank, if I was an Atkins newbie, I probably wouldn't post here at all.

[MissScruff]

I feel what I said has been completely twisted and to be so harsh in comments and what some seem to percieve as humor...well to be honest it hurts my feelings. Were are the mods when someone refers to another as militant and mock them for sharing a theory? Remember folks, a theory doesn't mean the statement is true! And then to make such a harsh statement about running newbies off? What about the new folks, and that is what some of the posters being ugly are, running off those who have learned the journey through experience and are only trying to share that knowledge with the new ones? I'd rather be militant any day than hurtful to another through meaness and name calling. I would love to see this thread just vanish...

[Quest]

Remember, this thread is in the War Zone, so standards of discussion are more open than in the other forums, and it may be necessary to come in wearing thicker skin than usual!

[MissScruff]

To be honest, I didn't notice that. Being in the war zone still shouldn't warrent mocking and name calling.

[scthgharpy]

I'd go on the ysabella diet! Its scathe-a-licious! Youre one funny broad!

We have to remember that its hard sometimes not to be a psycho evangelist, especailly after years of failure-and FINALLY HOT DAMN! IT WORKS! Im gonna tell the world! In addition, many eating choices (ie, frankenfoods, vegans, etc) can be very politically or health driven, so its important for some folks to evangelize. However, as with any religion, tolerance with others choices is what keeps the peace and understanding.

Share, certainly, but dont hate others for making different choices than you. Hey- and listen to them too-maybe youll learn something!

[MissScruff]

Like I said, I didn't know this was the war zone and I don't appreciate the name calling...maybe I am not the one with the problem? I have always found those who call others names and get verbally ugly, as in here, are the ones with the problem.

[Beeblebrox]

MissScruff, I guess you are talking about my post? I just want to make it clear I wasn't addressing you (or any specific person, for that matter). I was generalizing about the comments that I've seen in the lowcarber.org forums. I have no idea why my post would upset you personally.

[tamarian]

To be honest, I didn't notice that. Being in the war zone still shouldn't warrent mocking and name calling.

Correct. If you see a post where a personal insult was directed at you, please use the report button as usual.

Some may take offense to Ysabella's post and others, if they assume she's talking about them, but that would be just an assumption.

There are militant LC'ers, zealot LC'ers, serious LC'ers, not so serious LC'ers, just as there are "whatever" LC'ers. That's not a personal insult, it's just an observation. We cannot censor those, never have, never will.

Wa'il

[JaneDough]

Share, certainly, but dont hate others for making different choices than you. Hey- and listen to them too-maybe youll learn something!
And while one is sharing, is it always necessary to bang out a manifesto? There are posters here with awesome results from whom I'd love to learn, if only they'd limit their comments to 5K words or less. ;) (Yes I know - different strokes for different folks...)

[Wyvrn]

IMO opposing viewpoints on this forum are mostly expressed respectfully, except maybe to those offended by all controversy. But without it there wouldn't be nearly as much good information on this forum.

Wyv

[KryssiMc]

And while one is sharing, is it always necessary to bang out a manifesto? There are posters here with awesome results from whom I'd love to learn, if only they'd limit their comments to 5K words or less. ;) (Yes I know - different strokes for different folks...)

Some of those make my eyes go buggy and I just stop before the end. I have written a few longer posts in my time, but to post your thesis? I just don't have the attention span, I guess. Good observation... and this thread has some really humorous posts, BTW...further proving that LCing does not rot your brain...it makes you sharper!

[bluesmoke]

I usually don't write them, but I don't have any problem with long posts. It's where some of the best information comes from. Nyah Levi

[Nancy LC]

I don't mind long ones either, as long as the content is good and the writer uses paragraphs!

[TBoneMitch]

Same for me.

If the post is long it can be intimidating, but if it is well-written and interesting, I will read it with pleasure.

However, if it is all in caps with no punctuation and no paragraphs... :)

[Yaberhoo]

2 much shrt hnd drvs me nts! (It hurt just to type that)

[Lisa N]

2 much shrt hnd drvs me nts! (It hurt just to type that)

You know...I've heard that there are support groups to help people get over writing like that.... :lol:

[Yaberhoo]

There's no help for me. I'm too far gone. *sigh*

[potatofree]

Don't look at me Yaberhoo, it took me a while to catch on to the EASY ones... I kept thinking people were sad when they typed WOE. :rolleyes:

[Yaberhoo]

LOL! I don't mind the occasional WOE/WOL stuff. It's when they start dropping all the vowels or use numbers (i.e. ate = 8). Of course, this from the person who started the infamous "eople" episode. :rolleyes:

[ysabella]

I DON'T ENJOY THE ALL CAPS MESSAGES. :rolleyes:

When you write enormous posts, you have to assume that some people won't read all the way through. It's like writing technical documentation - when I have to do that, I tend to write wacky things, or use wacky examples (usually involving squirrels or sci-fi references), because then people are more inclined to keep reading.

My husband likes to argue politics online but he does tend to write enormous, optic-nerve-numbing posts. They are incredibly informative and usually pleasant to read, but sometimes the sheer size just makes people skip 'em. So if you want to be persuasive, I think it pays to be concise.

[Dodger]

I tend to only browse through long posts. I would much prefer to read four shorts posts than one long one.

[potatofree]

Before anyone says you just don't want to apply yourself, are looking for the easy way out, etc. ;)

Content is the main factor in whether a looooong post is going to be read, for me anyway. If it's a full page of dead-horse-beating as opposed to a story about someone's struggles, I'll skip it. My loss, sometimes, I'm sure... because there's maybe some good info in there. When it comes to feelings, it's sometimes necessary to ramble a bit. I find, personally, that I learn more about people when they let it all go and ramble a bit. :)

I realize some people are passionate and/or a tad bit overzealous about how they eat. Again, I have to wonder WHY people feel the need to hammer out a longwinded lecture admonishing people for not "DOING IT RIGHT"!

I don't get the appeal, personally, of trying to make yourself responsible for "saving" anyone by trying to make SURE they know YOU HAVE THE ANSWERS. Going from thread to thread to preach the Gospel of Your Way, going, IMO, a bit far in warning newcomers about potential pitfalls, to the point of scaring some of them off... then declaring they just want to take the easy way out, weren't dedicated enough, or JUST WON'T LISTEN!!! <sigh> Is it just being overly concerned? Codependent? Ego-driven? I honestly want to know.

<end manifesto> ;)

[WyoDiva]

I don't get the appeal, personally, of trying to make yourself responsible for "saving" anyone by trying to make SURE they know YOU HAVE THE ANSWERS. Going from thread to thread to preach the Gospel of Your Way, going, IMO, a bit far in warning newcomers about potential pitfalls, to the point of scaring some of them off... then declaring they just want to take the easy way out, weren't dedicated enough, or JUST WON'T LISTEN!!! <sigh> Is it just being overly concerned? Codependent? Ego-driven? I honestly want to know.

<end manifesto> ;)
You said it well, PotatoFree...'nuff said...lol :thup:

[scthgharpy]

I appreciate the longer posts as well-but maybe the solution is to, if you find yourself writing a disseration, post it to your personal journal or website, and just post the url. save the server space!

[tom sawyer]

You say that what works for one person may not work for another. Makes it sound like we are all entirely different organisms needing vastly different substrates for existence.

I will go out on a limb here, and say that we are all the same species and have the same metabolic pathways running along in our bodies. And some form of low carb IS the right way to feed our bodies without abusing our metabolic pathways. So PLEASE don't tell me that low carb doesn't work for you, because it sure as heck WILL! And it is likely to take a LONG TIME to undo that which is the result of a long period of nutritional abuse.

I'll stop before my post gets too long...

[bluesmoke]

I agree with Tom Sawyer here, the only variation I see is the amount of carbs one can handle. In my case my carbs have to be kept very low with no grains, legumes, sugar etc. I even can have a reaction to sugar alcohols. However, I am older and have a long history of screwed up eating. Nyah Levi

[TBoneMitch]

I agree 100% with Tom Sawyer and Bluesmoke.

The reasons (in my humble opinion) why some people seem to take low carb like ducks to water while some seem to struggle are twofold:

1) as Tom said, the more nutritional abuse your body has had to deal with, the slower and longer the habituation to a new, proper way of nutrition will be.

2) Fear of fat. In my mind, avoiding saturated fats while lowcarbing is almost a ticket to failure. Of course, the goal is not to FORCE DOWN fat, but rather to go with fats you like and in the quantities necessary for you to kill cravings and feel full.

[ItsTheWooo]

I agree 100% with Tom Sawyer and Bluesmoke.

The reasons (in my humble opinion) why some people seem to take low carb like ducks to water while some seem to struggle are twofold:

1) as Tom said, the more nutritional abuse your body has had to deal with, the slower and longer the habituation to a new, proper way of nutrition will be.

2) Fear of fat. In my mind, avoiding saturated fats while lowcarbing is almost a ticket to failure. Of course, the goal is not to FORCE DOWN fat, but rather to go with fats you like and in the quantities necessary for you to kill cravings and feel full.
Food addiction is one reason. I think a lot of people also tend to use food like a drug. They invent all kinds of ways to justify continuing the use of their drug. To a food addict, low carb is the same thing as rehab. If you're not ready, you're not ready... even if you try, you won't succeed long term until truly ready to change the way you use food.

Another reason is they are following the wrong plan and eating too few carbs.
I do think there's a lot of individual variance on how LOW you can go and thrive, just as there's individual variance on how HIGH you can go and thrive, so I also think others may simply be eating far too low carb for their bodies. I feel absolutely terribly low on energy when ketogenically doing LC. I feel weak, dizzy, chronically hypoglycemic. I mean, truly mildly hypoglycemic. Both blood tests I had while extreme low carbing (taken while fasting) showed BS levels under 70. The one I had done in september was 69 (this was eating very few carbs, but not ketosis). The one I had taken over a year ago when I was still 200 pounds was 60 (my fasting BS was lower despite the fact I was heavier then and more recently comming off of high carb... but I WAS eating less carbs than I was later).
The form of hypoglycemia I get while keeping carbs really really low isn't a typical insulin-swing induced one with hunger and those terrible symptoms (since it's not caused by too HIGH insulin, but rather insufficient glucose output without high insulin). I just feel the "low sugar" hypoglycemic symptoms (mildly dizzy & weak), not the "sharp swing from high insulin" ones (jittery & suddenly starving).
I'm not the only person who has reported this problem tolerating ketosis, it's actually very common. My theory is that we are all unique people, some of us have metabolisms that can more efficiently make glucose in its absense... others cannot, so their bodies struggle to make sugar. Just like some people can eat all the carbs they want and do fine, some people can feel awesome on no carbs at all.

Anyway, there are lots of reasons why someone would fail to thrive on LC I'm sure, many might be because of objectively valid reasons (not being ready for a lifestyle change, or choosing a plan that's nutritional composition did not agree with you)

[Beeblebrox]

I think the emotional satisfaction component of food is a very big factor for me personally. This might as well be using food as a drug. And I get no satisfaction from the composition of a low fat/high carb diet, since both sugar and dietary fat are typically restricted. But on a low carb diet, at least I get to eat fat. I may be a sugar addict, but dietary fat also makes me feel happy, or should I say... less deprived? Food is love, yadda yadda. It's not all in my head since I'm also insulin resistant, but the emotional attachment and feelings of deprivation are important factors for me.

[tamarian]

You say that what works for one person may not work for another. Makes it sound like we are all entirely different organisms needing vastly different substrates for existence.

I will go out on a limb here, and say that we are all the same species and have the same metabolic pathways running along in our bodies. And some form of low carb IS the right way to feed our bodies without abusing our metabolic pathways. So PLEASE don't tell me that low carb doesn't work for you, because it sure as heck WILL! And it is likely to take a LONG TIME to undo that which is the result of a long period of nutritional abuse.

I'll stop before my post gets too long...

I do agree that low-carb should work for everyone, in the sense that no one can really prove that their body requires high intake of sugar, grains, starch or any form of higher carbs to survive, thrive, be healthy or lose weight.

But at the same time, I don't think there's only one formula to follow, and that one method of low-carbing fits all. Nor that being of the same species imply we have identical biochemical processes, metabolism, hormons, enzymes etc. It's a very complicated science, and even experts in the field seem at a loss of what really takes place.

Wa'il

[potatofree]

I should HOPE I don't have identical hormones to yours... no offense, but I've never really wanted a goatee. ;)

[Nancy LC]

Hmmm... Interesting it's guys that are agreeing with one another. Must be a bonding thing. :p

I actually think we're similar metabolically but those wee tiny differences can make a enormous difference in how well a low carb diet works for you. Things like hormones can really mess you up. If any of you dudes wants to see, perhaps we can arrange for some estrogen shots and give you some meds to make your thyroid function about 75% as well as it does now. *evil chuckle* Then we'll have this discussion again... after you get over your PMS symptoms and the crying jag spurred by your 20 pound overnight weight gain.

Seriously, low carb is great, but things like calories, how low carb to go, how much fat to eat etc, etc I think is seriously individual. What works for you, a guy, doesn't necessarly work as well for a woman of my age, as a weight loss plan.

[tamarian]

Seriously, low carb is great, but things like calories, how low carb to go, how much fat to eat etc, etc I think is seriously individual. What works for you, a guy, doesn't necessarly work as well for a woman of my age, as a weight loss plan.

I don't think these factors (calories and fat) necessarily means high-carb. I don't think we're in disagreement, unless you're implying that women need a high-sugar, high-grain diet. That's why I was very careful in my definition :)

Wa'il

[TBoneMitch]

You are right about those points, because genetics and especially prior nutrition habits and the duration of those habits definitely has to do with how your body (and your mind) will deal with food.

Nice points everyone, it is a pleasure to read your replies and get other people's points of view.

[Nancy LC]

No, I don't think low calorie implies sugar or grains, in fact, just the opposite! Any of us women who tried low fat, low calorie, high carb know what torture that is! But guys, well some of them, seem to think that unlimited fat and calories works for everyone. My body begs to differ! However, I can say that even though I think its a superior diet in many regards, low carb with no calorie counting doesn't work (for me) either. In fact, judging from the number of women who completely stall out of Atkins, that I've run into, I'd say there's something more than coincidence at work here.

There was one guy that posted recently that the women lose weight more slowly is because they're not as active. :p Too bad you cant deliver a noogie over the internet.

Now wait a sec... could this be the birth of a new industry? Internet Noogie delivery service? :p

[Yaberhoo]

Now wait a sec... could this be the birth of a new industry? Internet Noogie delivery service? :p

LOL! I like it. I can picture some guy running into your place of work quickly giving you a noogie, a card explaining who it was from, and then running away.

[tamarian]

It's tough to be a guy around here, can even be scary.... ;)

Wa'il

[bluesmoke]

If I in any way seemed to suggest that one can eat unlimited anything, I didn't mean it. Unlimited fat or calories doesn't work for anuone, unless they only eat until satisfied and can then stop. All I can say is that if you think it rough now, wait until age slams into your metabolism.
In whatever amount of calories you require, keeping a higher ratio of fats and protein and a lower ratio of carbohydrates that the standard American diet is better for anyone, less sugar and potatoes and refined grains is healthy.
As Atkins said over and over again, you have to find your own personal ratios by experimenting on yourself. If you can eat a higher perscentage of carbohydrates that I, hooray for you. At this point in my life, I can tolerate only small amounts. While I can maintain on low caeb without watching amounts , I don't lose unless I purposefully restrict them. Nyah Levi

[Wyvrn]

I think it's likely that the main reason for low-carb failure in women is the persistance of the low-fat mentality. Maybe women have a harder time getting past this than men do.

Wyv

[ysabella]

Then again, women can really get behind the concept of having butter on everything.

I'm with NancyLC; Atkins did diddly, or worse than diddly, for me (my blood lipids started going the wrong way). I have hypothyroidism, which is much more common in women than men. Since women with hypoT (whether diagnose, like mine, or 'subclinical') have a harder time losing weight, we may have a fairly high concentration of them here on the forum. And with hypoT, Atkins is way too low in carbs - I don't go under 60g a day now - and that makes your screwy hypoT metabolism go slower and slower. Which, I might add, sucks. Admittedly, it was less horrible than what happened to me back when I did low-fat, right before I got the hypoT diagnosis.

[tom sawyer]

I forgot about my post for a bit, and came back on to see how much I got beat up. I gotta work on being more controversial...

Tamarian, I'm not saying that one specific combination of foodstuffs fits all, the key is finding suitable low carb foods that each person enjoys and finds satiating. Every one of us DOES have the exact same biochemical processes going on. There are darned few biochemical pathways that you could do without and not exhibit some sort of severe disease symptoms. Of course there is some variation in the efficiency of the processes, due to enzyme variants/mutations. But all the feedback loops involved in these pathways, makes the levels of intermediates pretty consistent. Just looking at cholesterol for instance, levels are consistent enough to allow doctors to issue guidelines and make correlatoins to disease states. And of course you have the genetic variants who have outrageously high cholesterol without necessarily being at elevated risk of disease.

Now a second attempt to pick a fight. Ysabella, did you ever consider that low carb only caused your blood lipids to go the wrong way because you were mobilizing stored fat? And that your lipids would improve as you got to a lower weight? This is what my wife is seeing in her low carb efforts. Her thyroid hormone profile is slightly low (not diagnosed as hypoT but could be), and her weight loss has been slow. But she has lost, and her cholesterol is slowly coing down as well and her ratio is good. TGs are fantastic of course. I kept expecting her lipid profile to improve faster than it has, but it seems to be improving at the rate that her weight is coming down. Slow, but in the right direction.

Now a question: how do carbs affect hypothyroid condition? My wife doesn't seem to have had an adverse reaction to LCing. I think you may be confusing transient hypoglycemia with hypothyroidism. A lot of people experience symptoms of hypoglycemia when they start LC. Any time you perturb a biochemical system, it takes awhile to get back to a new steady state. The greater the perturbation, the longer and more severe the fluctuations, but always a new balance is acheived. Granted, hypoglycemia has some really unpleasant side effects. Which might be a reason to slowly wean yourself off carbs, but not necessarily a reason to eschew going to a lower level at all.

Hopefully this doesn';t come across as an attack, your thread is excellent and initial posts were highly entertaining. Excpet when you attacked those of us who write long posts, that truly hurt my feelings!

[Nancy LC]

Tom, you are curious about low-carb and thyroid. Here's something you might find interesting.
http://forums.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=5363037&postcount=20

One thing that I noticed is how many people experience coldness and hair loss when they go low carb. Both are hypoT symptoms. For me, I couldn't even lose on 1200 calories a day doing low carb, when things were at their worst. High cholesterol is also a symptom of hypoT. Taken individually, might not be hypoT, but put them all together and I think that for some people with marginal thyroid functionality, going extremely low carb might not be a good thing.

Actually, my hypoT was sub-clinical. What my problem was was with converting one type of thyroid hormone to another, not something that doctors are trained to catch. I had to have my own tests done and found it and took it too my doctor and asked for a particular type of medication to help with that.

Even after that it wasn't a panacea to my weight loss issues. I still struggle for every pound, but at least I can do it now! Before it was about impossible. And the new meds took care of a lot of other stuff, like the brain fog I was experiencing. I feel like I gained about 20 IQ points. Unfortunately they're ones I lost, not new ones... dang it.

[tom sawyer]

Ok those quotes are interesting. BTW, did you happen to have your thyroid hormone profile levels tested before and after LCing? And while I find the info interesting, let me play devil's advocate. A person on LC has normal blood glucose levels, at least after they've been at it for a bit. I think a lot of people incorrectly assume that blood glucose is lower in LC people. It is not, it is in the normal range. Blood glucose is one of those things that your body goes to great lengths to keep at a normal steady state level.

So, if blood glucose is normal in LCers, then why would you suspect they might experience lower thyroid hormone levels? I would not predict this. I would predict that whatever reason for the slight hypothyroidism, would probably persist and not be improved by LC. And the concommitant slower metabolism, weight loss and other symptoms would not change drastically.

I couldn't write a three sentence post if my life depended on it.

[Nancy LC]

I didn't have the same sort of thyroid panel done before LC, so I have absolutely no evidence that it happened because of LC. In fact, I think things were going south before that judging from how lousy I felt for years. It was the FT3 (not T3, not TSH) test that showed the problem.

Hmmm... what I got from that was that dietary component is the important thing, not blood glucose.


I couldn't write a three sentence post if my life depended on it.
Good heavens, your posts aren't long. If someone thinks you're posts are long they're probably suffering from ADHD. :p

And sure you can, just leave off the periods. :p

Composition of the diet rather than reduction in the total calorie intake seems to determine the occurrence of decreased T3 generation in peripheral tissues during food deprivation. The dietary content of carbohydrate appears to be the key ingredient since as little as 50 g glucose reverses toward normal the fast-induced changes in T3 and rT3.52 Replacement of dietary carbohydrate with fat results in changes typical of starvation.39,53

I think they're saying, eating 50g of glucose.

[nawchem]

This is just an individual experience, not proof of much. I am one who got intense chills when I started lowcarb at about 50 netcarbs. My thyroid tested low doubled my medication no weight loss for 4 months. Then I dropped my carbs to 20 my thyroid gland swelled up, now I'm taking 3x as much medication for hypothyroidism as I was for the whole 3 years before lowcarb. I keep my carbs at 20, calories at 1200 exercise almost an hour and half a day 5x per week and lose 1-1.5lbs a week, with no weight loss during TOM or post whoosh. I only lost 0.5lb the first week of lowcarb.

The first time I tried lowcarb 3 years before I didn't lose any weight at all which led to the initial diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

That leaves me with a weight loss of about 3lbs/month which is not very motivating for the amount of work I put into it.

[Nancy LC]

That leaves me with a weight loss of about 3lbs/month which is not very motivating for the amount of work I put into it
That's about the absolute max I can get even on super low calorie.

[Dodger]

That leaves me with a weight loss of about 3lbs/month which is not very motivating for the amount of work I put into it.

At that rate, in only three months you will be at your goal.

[nawchem]

thanks Dodger :)

[Dodger]

OK,

I did the math wrong (it's the optimist in me). It will take a little over 5 months.

[ysabella]

Posted by tom sawyer: Now a second attempt to pick a fight.
I know, really. TBoneMitch posted something about what a pleasure it was to read replies in this thread and I was thinking, "But this is the War Zone! We're doing it all wrong!" :D

Ysabella, did you ever consider that low carb only caused your blood lipids to go the wrong way because you were mobilizing stored fat? And that your lipids would improve as you got to a lower weight?
No, because my HDLs were getting lower and I had never, ever seen that happen before. They've always been in the 60s, but had dropped to 56.

I clung to hope for well over a year of Atkins, although I changed to the Zone for a few weeks around my triathlon and I tried the Kekwick, TKD (which worked a little - and that was a clue for me later on) and several weeks of the "KISS" plan in there too. I had a tendency to believe that somehow I just wasn't getting it right - too many calories, not enough exercise, too much butter, always something. I never dared put my carbs so high as 60 for any length of time, naturally, figuring if anything they were somehow still too high. Finally, the HDL crap convinced me to drop the very-low-carb and look for another way.

This is what my wife is seeing in her low carb efforts.(...)
I'm glad it's working for her. Perhaps she has a normal thyroid, and while it's reacting to LC, it's not enough to impede her losing? Which would be how it works for most people. My triglycerides were just fine of course, and still are (around 70). Yes, losing fat improves the lipid profile. However, I wasn't losing fat, and my lipids were getting worse, and I'd put in over a year. It would be insane to expect it to magically start working at that point.

Now a question: how do carbs affect hypothyroid condition? My wife doesn't seem to have had an adverse reaction to LCing. I think you may be confusing transient hypoglycemia with hypothyroidism. A lot of people experience symptoms of hypoglycemia when they start LC.
I'm certainly not confusing transient hypoglycemia with hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 1997 (TSH of 6) and believe me, there was no doubt about it.
You understand the idea that eating very low calorie causes your body to fight back and slow down your metabolism, yes? A simple survival tactic. The thyroid gland is a part of this. The low-carb slowdown probably has something to do with insulin. And cortisol. And pituitary hormones. Endocrinology is unbelieveably complicated.

Mind you, I do watch my carbs and eat 'good' carbs. I just keep them over 60, and as high as 100 on days when I weightlift, plus one or two treat meals a week (usually Sunday, for me). This is known as "cycling" one's carbs, and I generally do this with calories as well (like the TKD I mentioned earlier, but less extreme). Food is planned around workouts. I'm eating a lot of protein and plenty of fats. I also changed my thyroid medication from Synthroid to Armour, which has more components in it.
Result: I have actually lost some body fat in recent months, as well as putting on muscle. I'm down 16 pounds overall, although some of that is likely water. I suspect at least 8 pounds of fat have departed. My HDL is 61. In fact, my total CHO, which has been around 250 for all of my adult life and was 260 a year ago, has dropped to 209. My LDL went from 192 to 134. I feel the massive improvement is due to the thyroid med change, although I should give myself credit for my diet and exercise when it comes to the HDL going back up. Weightlifting is definitely part of it; I've done it before, but have figured out that I wasn't really doing it right.

Hopefully this doesn';t come across as an attack, your thread is excellent and initial posts were highly entertaining. Excpet when you attacked those of us who write long posts, that truly hurt my feelings!
Naw, I don't feel attacked or anything. You understand, I hope, that I'm still eating low carb, just not to the early-phase Atkins extreme.
And hey now, I provided ideas for keeping people interested in reading those long, long posts: squirrels.

[ysabella]

I'm seeing various threads around this place that are positing ideas that any emotional extreme that helps you to lose weight is worthwhile. Things like...be angry, be obsessive, dislike yourself, use that anxiety, distance yourself from your loved ones, drop all your hobbies so you can focus.
Somehow, weight loss is the greatest good, the only fulfullment, and everything else must bow to it. According to some people. Those of us who don't feel that way are somehow fooling ourselves, or don't truly see our pathetic fatness.

Yes, this is a weight loss forum. I'm aware of that. But weight loss is not the only good thing in life.

[potatofree]

There's always squirrels. ;)

[Dodger]

I'm seeing various threads around this place that are positing ideas that any emotional extreme that helps you to lose weight is worthwhile. Things like...be angry, be obsessive, dislike yourself, use that anxiety, distance yourself from your loved ones, drop all your hobbies so you can focus.
Somehow, weight loss is the greatest good, the only fulfullment, and everything else must bow to it. According to some people. Those of us who don't feel that way are somehow fooling ourselves, or don't truly see our pathetic fatness.


I haven't noticed that at all. We are either reading different threads, or have different interpretations of what we read.

[ItsTheWooo]

This is just an individual experience, not proof of much. I am one who got intense chills when I started lowcarb at about 50 netcarbs. My thyroid tested low doubled my medication no weight loss for 4 months. Then I dropped my carbs to 20 my thyroid gland swelled up, now I'm taking 3x as much medication for hypothyroidism as I was for the whole 3 years before lowcarb. I keep my carbs at 20, calories at 1200 exercise almost an hour and half a day 5x per week and lose 1-1.5lbs a week, with no weight loss during TOM or post whoosh. I only lost 0.5lb the first week of lowcarb.

The first time I tried lowcarb 3 years before I didn't lose any weight at all which led to the initial diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

That leaves me with a weight loss of about 3lbs/month which is not very motivating for the amount of work I put into it.

I was curious about the LC/hypothyroid link, did this happen when you went on other diets, too, or just LC? Because you also mentioned you were eating 1200 calories only and it's conclusive that under eating / being underweight will make your body turn down the thermostat. So maybe it's not the LC as much as it is some people's bodies are super thrifty and won't let go of weight easily? I know there's a lot of research which shows that LC can promote hypothyroidism, but I wonder if that has so much to do with LC itself or the fact that people aren't eating enough ON LC to keep their bodies working right.

I know I show signs of hypothyroidism but in my case I think they're more closely connected to my weight and restricted intake than they are to a lack of carbohydrates.

[ysabella]

ItsTheWoo, it happened to me on what was basically Poor College Student Eating Low-Fat diet, although I was under a lot of stress at the time as well. Bagels, skim milk, pasta with tomato sauce, rice, carrots, homemade muffins. Sometimes a mocha or a chocolate milk, so not every day was low-cal.

Dodger, PM me if you want to know where I'm reading this.

[nawchem]

I was curious about the LC/hypothyroid link, did this happen when you went on other diets, too, or just LC? Because you also mentioned you were eating 1200 calories only and it's conclusive that under eating / being underweight will make your body turn down the thermostat. So maybe it's not the LC as much as it is some people's bodies are super thrifty and won't let go of weight easily? I know there's a lot of research which shows that LC can promote hypothyroidism, but I wonder if that has so much to do with LC itself or the fact that people aren't eating enough ON LC to keep their bodies working right.

I know I show signs of hypothyroidism but in my case I think they're more closely connected to my weight and restricted intake than they are to a lack of carbohydrates.

I have a hard time differentiating between diet/nondiet. I started getting heavy when I was 5. I was very active and tried to exercise 3 hours/day since high school and usually ate 1400cal, way more on the weekends and maintained my weight. Then I balloned up when I went on heart medication-tachycardia from hypoglycemia, I still exercised but only ate 1400cal every other day. It tested as normal thyroid then but looking back at my medical records my temp was below 97 all the time. Then I started atkins and stopped gaining at least. So something was always going on with me. But I didn't test hypothyroid until about 5 months into lowcarb.

[Wyvrn]

Seems like the people who are weightloss crazy are mostly the newbies on the Atkins forum, especially the younger ones. Those of us who are middle aged or getting there seem to be more focused on health and feeling good.

Since it's Friday and nice out, I'm gonna put my weight loss on hold for an hour or so after work and go to the brew pub for a beer. Not that LC pee but an honest stout. :agree:

Wyv

[nets33]

There's always squirrels. ;)
Where do you get your squirrels Tater? Are they free-range squirrels or are you buying them at Wal-mart for $.99/lb? :lol:

[potatofree]

Wal-mart. They're not organic, but their nuts have never been sprayed with pesticides, I'm told.

Seriously, though, ysabella has a point. Some people are just SO sure they have all the answers and can speak with authority about how ALL fat people think and feel... it just gets old.

It's cool to disagree, since that's how we learn. It's just too bad some people are stuck on their own perception too much to see any other way.

Occasionally, though, karma comes through and you see some of the worst lecturing know-alls slip up and regain their weight, coming back months later to try again. I notice they aren't very likely, even then, to apologize to the ones they kicked the butts of before for being "weak"...

<shrug>

[Lisa N]

I'm seeing various threads around this place that are positing ideas that any emotional extreme that helps you to lose weight is worthwhile. Things like...be angry, be obsessive, dislike yourself, use that anxiety, distance yourself from your loved ones, drop all your hobbies so you can focus.
Somehow, weight loss is the greatest good, the only fulfullment, and everything else must bow to it. According to some people. Those of us who don't feel that way are somehow fooling ourselves, or don't truly see our pathetic fatness.

Yes, this is a weight loss forum. I'm aware of that. But weight loss is not the only good thing in life.


I can't say I've noticed threads like that but then again I haven't been around as much as usual lately, either.
I'm sure that there are those that have an all-or-nothing attitude about weight loss and that's not necessarily a bad thing unless determination and focus becomes obesession. If it gets to a point where a person finds themselves giving up all sorts of things that they find pleasurable (relationships, hobbies, etc..) so that they can 'focus' on weight loss exclusively, I think that may be a danger sign, especially if it's expressed along with statements or ideas that the person can't feel good about themselves or that their lives will be horrible until they attain some magic number on the scale.

[CLASYS]

Why do you press harder on the buttons of the remote control when you know the batteries are dead?



Because when the remote is ALMOST DEAD, it SEEMS DEAD unless you press the buttons harder/longer! Try it, it works!

cjl

[edevaise]

Can anyone advise me now that I am simply losing no more weight on the low carb if moving to weight watchers might make my weigt go up b4 down until it gets sorted in my system?

Any Ideas?. am sick of low carbbing :help:

:cry:

[Kristine]

Wyv, stout is pretty low in carb content. :thup: It ferments quite dry, and the 'heaviness' is really just from the roasted barley flavour. :D

[joanie]

I go to Weight Watchers these days, and I like it -- it really kickstarted my weight loss. I had lost about 90 pounds on my own, and I had plateaued for several months, and I was losing interest. I was terrified that I would start regaining the weight, so I searched around for alternatives. WW is a terrific program that allows you the freedom to eat however you want (within reason). Their new "core" program is a clean eating plan that works very well for most people. Unlimited meats, veggies, fruits. If you don't want to do that, their "points" plan is still there, and with that, you count points. You need to get in a certain amount of dairy (for calcium) and healthy oils, but other than that, you are on your own. Joining WW was great for me. I started in early March, and have lost 40 pounds, bringing my total to ~135 pounds total!

I am not the type of person that can stick with a program if it's not working well for me. I've vowed to be at or near my goal weight by the end of this year, and I've vowed to run a half marathon in January, and I will do what it takes to reach these goals. If it means embracing a different eating plan every week until then, so be it! :lol:

You can attend a WW meeting without committing to the program, and I would encourage you to do this. Another plan that I think highly of is Nutrisystem. It's now a low-glycemic program that is completely online -- you just buy the food -- no registration fees. I buy the food and combine the tenets of both WW and NS. Like I said, you do what works, and this works very well for me. If it doesn't work, I stop doing it. I "fired" the Atkins plan when it didn't work well for me. Why keep doing it if it bores you or doesn't work?!

We're all different, and different things work for different people. I did the Suzanne Somers program about 4 years ago, and lost absolutely no weight at all. But I know people on this site who have done beautifully with it. Keep experimenting until you find what works for you. Good luck!

[Wyvrn]

Wyv, stout is pretty low in carb content. :thup: It ferments quite dry, and the 'heaviness' is really just from the roasted barley flavour. :D

Stout, dry, compared to what? I don't know the specs but the stuff I get at the brew pub is Fishtale, usually the organic IPA or whatever stout is on tap, and they have to be at least 016-17 FG, by the taste of them or I wouldn't bother :yum: dunno what that would translate to in carbs but I ain't takin chances... one a week is enough and certainly one in an evening 'cause that's all it takes to get me halfway tanked these days!

Wyv

[Rosebud]

Wyv, stout is pretty low in carb content. :thup: It ferments quite dry, and the 'heaviness' is really just from the roasted barley flavour. :D
Not that low, K. :( 16 fl oz has 18 carbs. (http://www.dietfacts.com/html/items/20690.htm)

Roz

[Kristine]

Hmphf. :confused: Elsewhere on the net, it's listed as having a nutrition breakdown roughly the same as Bud Light - less than 10 g per pint.

[mcsblues]

Hmphf. :confused: Elsewhere on the net, it's listed as having a nutrition breakdown roughly the same as Bud Light - less than 10 g per pint.
Yes, sadly this is another low carb myth

[Lessara]

Amen Sister!! Love this post! :)