*post-goal* depression

[LC Sponge]

All the time I was losing I set mini goals for myself. Once at the ultimate GOAL, I actually went through a decompression depression.

There was no more to lose :( - I often wonder if that's what is at the core of a yo-yo dieter. The losing is the fun part - not hitting goal - well hitting goal is a thrill - but soon after - you miss the thrill.

Now getting on the scale is all about "gee I hope I haven't gained" as opposed "oh boy, wonder how much I'm down".

I'm living vicariously through the newbies with their 9-pound a week losing schedule :exclm:

[Natrushka]

What about setting another goal? Like Abs of steel by summer, or managing a 20 km hike (not sure if that's doable, not the hiking type :) but I am jonesing after abs so......) I think as human beings we are happiest when striving for something; personal betterment can be quite addicting.

Nat

[tamarian]

Hmm. Here's a question: Have you accepted the new you? Does your mental picture match your real picture?

I've heard a lot of stories about people having a mental "lag" when they reach goal, between their real image and mental image. Just one thing to ponder.

Wa'il

[LC Sponge]

Nat - yes I have lots of fitness goals - and they have helped enormously. But initially this *depression* (for want of a better word) happens just after you calm down and come off the ceiling about reaching goal. Lasted about a week.

At the same time you start to think- hmmm, wonder if I could stand to lose another pound or two. Then you get nervous you are on the verge of an eating disorder. Then it's like a sadness. Like I imagine post-partum would be. I had a simlar episode when I quit smoking - they say it is like a grief. Losing weight starts to be part of your routine. Especially when I've been at it as long as I hve.

I started to feel like hanging out at a board where others are struggling is like being smarmy about hitting goal. So at first, I'd play it down. (Shucks twern't nothin') Like graduating from university and having no *job* to go to. What the heck good was the degree? Still, it passes.

Must admit, Wa'il having a maintenance area is a grand idea. Maybe it is a period of *catch up*, that lag you mention - that would answer why it didn't last long. But it sure had an impact on me - I was not at all expecting it.

My original *goal* was 149 - that was what I set originally - then I read something about setting higher goals was a sign of lack of confidence - that there was nothing wrong with picking a goal weight that felt GREAT at the time.

Well I felt GREAT at 139, but still set the bar at 140-144 range.

I play more havoc with my mind, than with my body.

[Karen]

When I lost the last chunk of weight, I was elated for a while, then scared. I was looking at a picture of myself and got completely spooked. I couldn't believe it was me! I also changed my goal from 150 to 140.

So I stall and wait it out. I get bummed, then more bummed, then there is hope, and I start to work my way out of it.

I'm starting to think about how incredibly silly I'm being is. What is there to be afraid of...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! ;)


Karen

[LC Sponge]

Karen - I absolutely hear you.

Is this a weird phenomena or what?

I think all these low-carb gurus should add a large section to their "premaintenance" chapters and talk more that just about food.

[Karen]

I know Sponge, I know! There should be a forum for the psychology aspects! ;)

I also think that any weight loss experience has a much more to it than not eating this or that. I believe the whole mind-body relationship is one of the causes of plateaus. Plateaus are a good thing. Kind of like a "courting" period to get you aquainted with the new you. People who lose a whole bunch of weight really quickly worry me. Will they be able to follow through on a WOL if the loss of fat has been their only goal? Maintenance also takes place in your mind.

Karen

[LC Sponge]

The concept of plateaus being a good thing.... that would have helped me a lot during just such times. I was comforted with the 'slow loss, stays off' theory. But then again I could just as quick put it right back on, if I was a different sort of person. Maybe the same would hold true in the reverse, of the fast losers - they are equally likely to keep it off or put it back on.

And you are so right about the psychology of all of this...

On Weight Watchers, I would have spent the losing period miserable, and the goal hitting - feeling wonderful. There seems to be some evidence that this WOE is the opposite!

And one more point as I blather on, from the psychological angle - yo-yo dieting - do you think there is such an underlying pleasure to lose, that people actually gain so they can do it again?

[Karen]

Holey-moley! What an interesting question! I'll have to think about this one for a bit. It seems shocking to me!

Karen

[Karen]

I don't think it's the yo-yo part that keeps people coming back. It could become a great part of someones identity to be always dieting, especially through diet groups. You get support when you are doing well and when you are doing badly too, which as I think about seems rather revealing. Getting support for thinking/believing/actually doing badly....hmmmm.

The support - if you belong to a group, the talking about it, and the rituals that lead up to going on a "diet" are probably what get people hooked. Also the repeat failure and starting again with great determination. The sad thing is that with calorie restricted and low-faD diets, you are bound to fail, or at least go crazy in the process.

I think people really don't realize how truly addicted - and I mean 12 Step Addicted - they are to carbohydrates. LC seems like the perfect WOL, yet people can completely go off the deep end and abandon it. Addiction or not?

Karen

[LC Sponge]

It would be interesting to see research studies on the people who *quit* dieting and returned to *normal* eating, either at goal or before and include information like - type of diet they were following, number of repeats of the same pattern, re-gain weight rates and amounts, general lifestyle profiles... etc - REGARDLESS of the diet they were on, in fact, cover off ALL woes - not just LC.

You're right - we hear a lot (and claim ourselves) that low-carb is the easiest to lose on and stick with - and yet people quit it all the time and gain and repeat - hard to tell if overall, low carb REALLY is any different than any other WOE in the stick-to-it attributes - or if the carb addiction, regardless of the *treatment* is truely what must be combatted by the individual alone - and that the *battle* is not food related - as you said before.

[joanne42]

Maybe it's the fact that you miss all the encouragement each week on your weight loss journey??? All the compliments along the way??? hmmm???? Well here's a compliment for you that even though I've been coming here for a while have never said to you!!!! CONGRATULATIONS ON REACHING GOAL!!! TEEHEE :roll:

[LC Sponge]

Nice to meet you Joanne.

Let me *shake* your virtual hand and offer you my thanks and my congratulations on your success so far, as well.

Funny you mention the compliments. I'm one of *those* who accepts the words gracefully but has great difficulty accepting the true value into her heart. I'm working on it. :thup:

[Homegirl]

You've touched on something that has crossed my mind.

When I started losing weight early this year it felt really good but it was a slow process even with the exercising I was doing.

Then, when I read Dr. Atkins and finally realized that I was doing a version of locarb, I decided to follow the plan more strictly and saw the fat come off at a much faster rate. I was very pleased and was feeling better than ever.

The downside was in becoming so consumed in the fat loss and the changes in my body. It was sort of like when you are renovating a house or planning a wedding or having a baby. It becomes all-consuming and you eat, sleep, think and talk about nothing else. I was becoming addicted to checking the forum three or four times a day. However, it did cross my mind that this couldn't go on forever, that at some point, it would become less all-consuming. And I had to ask myself what would I do then?????? Same sort of let-down you describe.

For me, it is all in trying to keep it in a balanced perspective--to be "consumed" enough to get myself all the encouragement I need to "keep up the good work" (that's where journaling and checking the forum comes in). But also be about the other business/es of my life because that other business is always there and will always be there whether I reach my goal or not.

The thing about reaching goal and maintaining it, in my mind, is in remaining true to all the principles and lessons I have learned about myself and my body along the way. I can't get too cocky and think I can disregard that valuable store of knowledge.

I love carbohydrates--pasta, rice, potatoes, corn, doughnuts, bread, expensive chocolate and cheesecakes. But the reality is, I think I will always have to limit my intake from here on in for the rest of my life because they affect me in negative ways if I eat too much of them. I am okay with that as long as I can indulge once in a while w/o guilt.

So to me the weight loss journey is about more than just the weight loss and I am trying to deal with all those other aspects of it so that I don't fall into the catagory of those who think they can just jump right back into their former WOE and end up gaining it all back. What a waste of my physical and mental time and energy that would be!

All that said, I do find it interesting that now that I have been at a certain weight for a while (and knowing that I am not at goal) I have days where I feel really overweight in exactly the same way as I did when I really was overweight. It's as if my body has forgotten about all the fat it has lost. That's when I get out my old reference shorts, skirt and jeans and try them on just to see all the room in them and remind myself what fat really was like!

Interesting thread. Lots to think about.

[Karen]

I have days where I feel really overweight in exactly the same way as I did when I really was overweight.

Have you noticed any "old way of thinking fat thoughts" cross your mind on those days?

Karen

[gwilson38]

I think when we are in the losing mode of dieting there is a "HIGH" associated with it. If U havent seen someone for a couple months the praise and awe of their congrats is wonderful. We definitely need to train ourselves to rethink. To feel good about ourselves for what we have accomplished and to each day stay committed to a low-carb way of life because we are all just one big piece of pie away from triggering our addiction again.

[Homegirl]

This is the third time I have replied to you. The first two times, my post disappeared as I hit the submit button.

Have talked to Wa'il about it and hopefully this time will be the keeper :) !

Anyway, I wrote:

I have days where I feel really overweight in exactly the same way as I did when I really was overweight.
And you asked:

Have you noticed any "old way of thinking fat thoughts" cross your mind on those days?
I am not sure what you mean. I think you mean do I get to the point when I am having a "fat" feeling day that I get the "to hell with it all" mentality and give myself permission to jump off the wagon and stuff myself with as many carbs as I can?

Noooo. I have just been trying harder to pay more attention to how my body feels on a daily basis. There are so many things that affect us like stress, water retention, monthly cycles, something wonderful to celebrate, etc. I just find it interesting that there are those days when I feel really fat even though I am 28 lbs lighter than I was in February. Come to think of it, back in the years when I was 110 - 115 lbs I had the exact same feelings some days. It's not that I really think I am fat, but its how my body feels to me.

Another interesting thing is that sometimes that really "fat" feeling is often followed by a "whooshy" feeling a few days later and then I drop a lb. Go figure.

But as to old ways of thinking fat thoughts, I don't think so in the sense you mean. I have had to rethink how different kinds of food affect me and undo some of the popular "education" I have been taught. To tell the truth, I never did buy into the low fat/low calorie thing. That's why I have never been on any diets. DH has been telling me for years I am going to drop dead from clogged arteries because I like butter on things and always loved the much maligned dark meat on the turkey or chicken and, heaven forbid, the skin (even on the salmon). And last of all I have committed the unpardonable sin of eating the fat on the steak and pork chop more than once!

And though I will admit I have a sweet tooth and was addicted to chocolate in recent years--it was never in an uncontrolled way--not an every day thing or when I did have it had to eat it all at once sort of thing. I don't think I have issues with food (that I know of) except that I like it a lot :D Seriously, I don't think I have ever used food as a substitute for love or companionship, for comfort or to reward myself or anything like that. But I do love having a good meal accompanied by friends and good conversation and laughs. That is my idea of heaven. Or one of them anyway.

As I am writing this, I am thinking of an experiment that was conducted with children. They were given some work to do along with a cookie. They were told that they could eat the cookie right away or they could wait until the work was finished and then receive another cookie as well. I identify with the kids who could control their impulses in order to get a greater reward.

I think it's a matter of perspective and choices and education. No matter how much I want to be the child that can do what I want to do (i.e. eat what I want to eat) w/o paying any consequences, the reality of life is that there are good and bad consequences to every choice made. I have to be mature enough to know what the choices are, what the choices will bring and then make my choices and face the consequences accordingly (that means w/o whining and laying blame if I make a bad choice).

Since I discovered this forum, I have read a lot of your comments and think that you are a voice of calm and reason and you don't beat around the bush. I have noticed you being quite firm with the odd person who seems to think that there is going to be a quick fix for their weight problems or who want to jump into the program feet first w/o knowing what it's all about or who expect help with things they can figure out all on their own by reading the books/articles or the helpful threads here. That never ceases to amaze me.

Anyway, as I have already said. This is an interesting thread and has given me a lot to think about and mull over in my mind.

Have you any further thoughts?

Take care & ciao!

[Karen]

What I mean by "old way of thinking fat thoughts" are thoughts and feelings of being useless, unsuccessful, depressed, worthless, frustrated, angry, lonely, tired...

As I am writing this, I am thinking of an experiment that was conducted with children. They were given some work to do along with a cookie. They were told that they could eat the cookie right away or they could wait until the work was finished and then receive another cookie as well. I identify with the kids who could control their impulses in order to get a greater reward.

I identify with this because I'm a sugar addict. Why have only one cookie, when you can get two? I also used to eat all the chocolate Girl Guide cookies first, because the vanilla ones were the best. I would be practically in a trance, working through the box and knowing the great vanilla reward would come.

You seem comfortable with this WOE and with making choices that are right for you. Why do you think people fall off the low carb wagon into the depths of carb-dom?

I know when I binge on carbs, it takes at least a week to feel good again so I wonder what kind of impulse pushes people to feel that bad for that long and gain their weight back at the same time. I think feeling really physically awful after carbs affects long termers more so than short termers.

Karen

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Karen
Why do you think people fall off the low carb wagon into the depths of carb-dom?

This spoke to me. I had to answer. I think they (we) do so because all our lives we have been bombarded with the idea that what we want/ need should automatically come to us. The silver platter notion of life. My mother used to accuse me of this when I was a child / teenager. We expect to have an easy lot in life, working for things just isnt in the cards for most of us. Dealing with an addiction is hard. It's work every day, every meal. I remember being frustrated and unhappy and thinking "if everyone else can eat what they want then so can I dammit" Of course I can't. I think falling off the wagon is like putting up the white flag without realizing you're doing it. Of course sometimes we know exactly what we are doing, even if we don't know why. The notion that life is work, hard work, every day can be overwhelming at times.

It's not laziness, it's more like falling back on old habits, on letting go of that responsibility that LC entails. The responsibility to take care of yourself and work at making your life better.

My ramblings.
Nat

[Homegirl]

I see what you mean about the feelings of being worthless, useless, etc. And of course, I got the irony of me saying I could wait for the extra cookie because I can control my impulses and you saying you could wait because you would want the extra sugar/cooke!

But you certainly brought up a good point about how we can get so down on ourselves that we end up not just giving up but practically doing ourselves in before we get back on track.

I have had lots of feelings of failure and have been mad at myself for stupid decisions. I have felt awfully small when I have inadvertently offended someone or given s/o a bed impression of me but I can't say I have ever felt worthless. I know I am special. Not in the sense that I think I am better than anyone else (on the contrary). I just know that I am of worth.

Now, all that said, I have had just this same conversation before with others when we have pondered on why there are some kids in a family who have been abused or raised by alcoholic parents, or whatever who manage to become really successful and overcome the obstacles of their childhood and the other kids get mired down in the same patterns as their parents. What is it at the core of those children that makes the difference? Methinks it is that sense of self worth. Some people already have it and some people need a lot more encouragement or nurturing or whatever to believe in themselves. What do you think? I also think the bottom line is (in agreement with good ol' Dr. Phil as in Opera Winfrey Dr. Phil) that if no one else is going to give us the love we need, we have to give it to ourselves.

I hope I am not coming across all pompous sounding because I don't mean to be. This really is something that I have pondered on before. I have a younger sister that suffers from bi-polar disorder (recent diagnosis) and she has made a lot of what you could call dumb mistakes that everyone else has seen but she hasn't. Bottom line is that her self-esteem is lacking but for the life of me I can't figure out why when we grew up in the same house with the same parents and she had so many more privileges than I did (me being the eldest, responsible one who had to break the ground, so to speak). She comes across as more aggressive, outspoken and she has that sense of entitlement about everything that Nat mentioned in her post. Like she deserves the things that others have or have obtained w/o having to do the work herself.

I have to admit it baffles me because I don't understand that mentality at all.

[Scotsman]

Dear LC S,

Your post has really “touched the tender spot” on something that has been worrying me for the past few months. Thank goodness these forums exist. If I was to try and discuss such matters with any of my friends (they don’t appreciate LC) I would be laughed out of court.

I achieved my goal weight through LC dieting early last year and without doubt one of the great parts of it was the buzz I gained from my new look and the remarks (mostly complimentary!) that my friends made. In short, I felt 10 feet tall!

Now, 18 months later, I am still the same height and only 3 pounds heavier and pretty much stuck into the LC WOL. However, it has not all been easy. I don’t count carbs, never did. I just followed the LC principal and it worked fine. Weight is still OK and I am much healthier and fitter for it.

However, I often feel the “buzz” has now gone (perhaps nobody now notices any change!). I suspect that now I am “static”, the initial euphoria has evaporated and it seems that life is somehow back to its old ways.

I am sorry to say I don’t have any answers to your concerns; I can only share them. I intend to stay with this WOL and I know deep down it is the right way ahead. There have been some excellent posts in rely to you and I hope you have gained as much encouragement from them as I have.

Yours aye,
Scotsman
:thup:

[LC Sponge]

Scotsman - what an encouraging post! I feel much better having read it.

Thank you for taking the time to write it.

Sincerely,
Victoria

[Karen]

I know exactly what you're talking about Scotsman. I sometimes wish I could go back to being a LC "virgin" again. I miss that buzz, but I suppose it's like any relationship you get really comfortable with. May be the trick is "learning how to be in love with LC for the rest of your life!" Sounds pretty hokey, but it could be true.

Karen

[LC Sponge]

Originally posted by Karen
I sometimes wish I could go back to being a LC "virgin" again. I miss that buzz, but I suppose it's like any relationship you get really comfortable with
Karen

So, now we're LC maidens? Matrons? LOL! Perhaps the maintenance logo could be a circle with a marishino cherry in it and a line through. Wa'il could probably make one up for us.

(Did I say that? I'm just goofin' around, that's all, just goofin' around!!)

Seriously, yes, Karen the bloom is off the low carb rose, but it's all uphill from here. :)

[Karen]

I like the "cherry" idea LC S! :eek:

It's all "uphill" sounds like a chore (like I have to start exercising or something :rolleyes: ) , but having it all "downhill" would be worse!

I think you get feelings of self worth Homegirl, from doing worthy acts. You should do them for yourself, but it's also very important to do them for your community.

Part of the problem - as Nat said - is wanting instant results. Actually working at something and watching it develop and grow is a great thing, but it also takes practice and patience. So does learning how to make decisions for the long run and not just the short term. Too many people live by their feelings instead of by "doing the right things." Many will act out of greed or pride - or any of the Seven Deadly Sins ;) - instead of looking at the pros and cons.

You may have had influences that taught or led you to developing a life enhancing set of values and ethics, and your sister did not. Some people have to hit bottom before they realize that they have to do something and some hit bottom and stay there. No matter where they end up, they will find a group of like-minded people...which serves to reinforce their behaviour.

Karen

[Natrushka]

Ok this post isnt in Daily or Bootcamp so *I* can't move it; I think it deserves a home in PPP.

Nat

[sbsjr]

Hi - I'm new to the forum, just having joined a couple of days ago, but this subject is precisely why I joined. I haven't lost ALL the weight I planned to originally, but I have lost enough that I've gotten plenty of the "buzz" everyone is referring to. And after a while everyone at work, friends, etc., have gotten over the stunned looks... plus the dramatic 15 pounds in 2 weeks stage is over and it's more like 2-3 pounds per 2 weeks, on average.

But I guess my comment would be that the best thing for maintenance (for me, at least) is to read that other people have hit the same walls. That might or might not help everyone, but as someone mentioned earlier it's helpful to have others who know about the LC lifestyle.

OK, hopefully I can add more later, but I just wanted to pitch in and say thanks for the earlier comments in this thread.

[Karen]

Ok this post isnt in Daily or Bootcamp so *I* can't move it; I think it deserves a home in PPP.

Hey Nat, let's let it hang here for a while to see if anything else develops. PPP can be its ultimate resting place.

Karen

[LC Sponge]

Gwilson posted a link to this article (http://stores.yahoo.com/carbsmart/onceanaddict.html) on the daily low carber.

But it's SO relevant for here. that I put it here as well. The part where the author states about being addicted TO LOSING weight jumped right off the page at me. It's so close to what I said to Karen about re-gaining so you can lose....

If a person can't switch the focus of the addiction to a harmless target (is there such a thing??) or deal with it completely, then food will become the target once again... Once the weight goal is met - it's vital to re-examine oneself to find out why we got fat in the first place. It's not an examination that can be fully made while we are focussed on the losing process.... only at goal.

This is such an interesting topic.

[LC Sponge]

Now, all that said, I have had just this same conversation before with others when we have pondered on why there are some kids in a family who have been abused or raised by alcoholic parents, or whatever who manage to become really successful and overcome the obstacles of their childhood and the other kids get mired down in the same patterns as their parents. What is it at the core of those children that makes the difference? Methinks it is that sense of self worth. Some people already have it and some people need a lot more encouragement or nurturing or whatever to believe in themselves. What do you think? -Homegirl

IMO Self-worth isn't something someone can give you. Ya either got it, or ya ain't.

I'm one of the 'survivors' you are talking about. :)

In fact, I'm having lunch with my father today (his invitation) --haven't spoken to him in 6 years. Have seen him face to face only about 4 times in the last 20 years. I have a family who works hard at making me feel small. So they are not people with whom I choose to associate.

Meanwhile I have turned out extraordinarily successful, gifted and happy. So what do I think about lunch? Well, the look on his face as I pick the bread off my sandwich should be pretty good. ;)

[gwilson38]

Im sorry U dont have a supportive family or should I say sorry U have a disfunctional family??? Im 37 and its just been last couple yrs I have realized that I grew up with a very cold-unloving, critical father. He was my dad so I always thought he was right about everything. BUT I never recieved priase from him only critisim. In fact now that I have gotten to a healthy weight his remarks are ~!$%#^^$^& you are too thin! But never once during my weight loss did he say "wow U are doing great I am proud of you" I am learnly slowly I DONT have to please him anymore but its a hard lesson to learn. DO you [or anyone else reading this post} constantly feel that maybe you should change your goal weight and try to lose just a little more? And do U think that even by losing a little more we will be happy even with that? Just my thoughts.

[LC Sponge]

Hey gwilson!!

Takes a while to understand who we really need to answer to.

Hope you are coming to terms with how good a person you believe you are. Your opinion is what counts most :)

Can't pick our family, but we can pick our friends!

We are the only species that tries to maintain a relationship beyond the formative years. Could be our biggest mistake. We are social creatures - doesn't mean that *family* must be part of our social circle.

Yes, I adjusted my goal a couple of times - still am. How's 139 sound ?? LOL

PS. My *real* name is Victoria - what's yours?

[gwilson38]

My name is GALE spelt just like the wind..lol ...it cracked me up when U send we are the only species that try to maintain a relationship after the formative yrs. LOL Maybe I will do MY kids a favor and when they leave the house I will move and not give them my new addy..LOL ... ok so 139 huh? Well I bet U are a beauty already, in fact Ill bet cause of all the kind and intelligent words U post in here that U are, were and will be a beauty at any weight. ...My original goal was to get into jeans that I couldnt....well I succeeded doing that about 6 weeks into Atkins...then I thought 150.....nope 145....nope 140.....ok so I have been hanging around 136 for awhile now and Im thinking 134>? LOL Oh man will we every be happy with what we weigh?? I do know for sure I love this WOL and WOE. I feel great now!!!

[Homegirl]

posted by gwilson.

This has been/is a very interesting thread. All these issues. Funny isn't it, how we can't really compartmentalize our lives? All things are affected by every other area of our lives. Goes back to what Karen said about weight being one form of "baggage" we have to deal with. Or sometimes it's a combination of different things.

[gwilson38]

LOL Im sorry forgot to ask U a favor in my last post, if U ever see me logged in can U PM me? There are a few people I would like to chat with but I cant figure the darn thingy out...lol thanks

[LC Sponge]

Hey Homegirl - yeah - that article was keen, wasn't it? Real food for thought. I wish I had time to find these little gems, but have had to rely on the kindness of others to bring them back to our campsite here, for me to examine by the fire.

Hey Gale (you are the second *Gale spelling* I've met - I work with one) and yes, I'll watch for when your 'on' and if you have time - we'll chat. :)

They say that your *ideal* weight is the weight you remember feeling BEST at. That's the weight that should have been your goal from the beginning. We set "wimpy" goals, because we are scared we won't hit them if they are too difficult. My VERY first goal was 149, then I read the above sentiment and reset to the 140-144 range (ranges are even SAFER, I thought).

Now I've decided goal (whatever the number) is a journey, and not a destination :)

P.S. I've also smiled more than once, at the sunshine you spread around here too, Gale.

[gwilson38]

I like your comment Victoria, " goal is a journey not a destination." My BMI is 22 which I know is good and I read on here somewhere Docs are more concerned with a healthy weight range rather than "ideal weight" For me being 5' 6" it was 125-155. Well now guess I should go continue my journey..lol

[DivaDani]

Victoria, the first time I read this goal weight concept:
Originally posted by LC Sponge
They say that your *ideal* weight is the weight you remember feeling BEST at. That's the weight that should have been your goal from the beginning. We set "wimpy" goals, because we are scared we won't hit them if they are too difficult.
I felt ripped off. I have felt really great at a lot of weights because I am generally a happy, contented person brimming with self esteem ( :) ), but none of them has yet been in a healthy range for me. (I remember weighing 100 lbs. in 5th grade and 140 in 6th grade - although I grew six inches between those years, I was still only 5'2"!) So I had to make an educated guess at my goal based on insurance tables. I think I initially picked 125 because that's what I picked the last time I really tried to lose weight (when I ended up at 150) and because I didn't want to be a wimp!

Then, I read some threads on this site about body fat percentages and frame sizes and did some intense measuring. Turns out I *AM* big boned and my body fat isn't as high (although still too porky for my toned-up goal!) as I'd thought. So, I adjusted my goal weight *UP* because it was actually below the healthy range for my frame and height. I've been having quite the journey just trying to pick a goal! It's making me feel better that even you super LC'ers who are near, at or below goal still aren't quite sure what your *ideal* weight is. At least, I think it does. Honestly, I was hoping for some concrete reassurance along the lines of Nat's instant gratification/handed to me on a silver platter post. No such luck, huh? I, too, will have to be content to examine my own body and pysche to find what's right for me while at the same time avoiding the demons of post-goal depression while searching for my next great quest...perhaps an Iron Man triathlon or crocodile wrestling?

Thanks for the great thread - I couldn't stop reading!

Dani

[LC Sponge]

Thanks for sharing your angle, Dani - I too enjoy reading posts from the *great thinkers* here - there are lots of them :)

I inferred that *ideal* = happy, you point out that *ideal* = healthy if a person is always happy anyway :).

I expect that once you get to your *ideal-healthy*, you'll be REALLY happy.

I have your issue in reverse - I am small boned for my height - so when I was slim (before my fat period) people were always telling me I was TOO skinny (at 135). That influenced my goal setting initially when I didn't want to go back to being TOO skinny.

Fortunately or otherwise I came to my senses - I may LOOK skinny at the lower weight, but my health is better at the lower weight since my frame can't comfortably carry heavier. And besides who cares what anybody else thinks?!

[razzle]

LC sponge, is it possible that some of what you are feeling is biochemical in origin? Ketosis does produce a chemical "high" and maybe you are missing that, in part. Maybe try some St. John's Wort, 5-HTP, or sun lamp therapy to stimulate serontonin production and see how those work for you.

[missydog]

I'm not at goal yet, and wasn't even near it for a couple of years, but one thing I'd like to mention as far as my psyche goes is that the closer I get to goal the more little disappointments start to creep into my experience. As near as I can figure, the prospect of actually ATTAINING goal when you feel you are quite overweight involves a lot of vague fantasies about just how wonderful BEING at goal will be once you get there. These fantasies may not be clearly conscious but they are there. Things like: being at goal means I will feel great all the time, or I'll get the job of my dreams, or I'll never feel anxious, or maybe even something big like my husband/mother/father will love me--- things that we are only vaguely aware of thinking. Inevitably there is some letdown upon reaching goal as these bubbles burst. They may burst consciously or unconsciously. You might then decide to "adjust" your goal downward so as to attain the impossible dreams. Or you might get angry, feel cheated, and re-gain some of the fat because being at goal was so disappointing. I already know I'll be thrilled for about 5 seconds when I reach goal, and then I'll immediately want to adjust my goal downwards, but that's just me.

Missydog

[LC Sponge]

Originally posted by razzle
LC sponge, is it possible that some of what you are feeling is biochemical in origin? Ketosis does produce a chemical "high" and maybe you are missing that, in part. Maybe try some St. John's Wort, 5-HTP, or sun lamp therapy to stimulate serontonin production and see how those work for you.

These are extraordinarily wise words - thank you.

[LC Sponge]

Originally posted by missydog
..... Inevitably there is some letdown upon reaching goal as these bubbles burst.....

Missydog

That hit home. More brilliance - thanks, Missydog :)