ciwujua

[itsjoyful]

hi all
i was just researching strength training for women, and came across some great sites. one of them is fitnessonline.com. started reading some articles, and came across this...

"Supplementing with 800 mg of ciwujia per day resulted in greater efficiency of oxygen utilization during stationary bicycling, suggesting a shift in metabolism from carbs to fat. Heart rate also decreased at given workloads, though not significantly. This Chinese herb has been used by mountain climbers to aid performance under restricted oxygen conditions."

T. Campbell, Institute of Nutrition and Food Hygiene, Beijing

any one familiar? i did a search and came up empty. just curious.
Bren

[grrlpwer]

i found this site on ciwujia i thought you might like it

http://www.virtualdrugstore.com/endurance/ciwujia.html

[grrlpwer]

oppppps i meant this one sorry :eek:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/vitanet/worcap60cape.html

[Natrushka]

I found this.....

Ciwujia (pronounced: su wa ja) (http://www.ccnet.com/~paulp/Cycling/NutritionalSupplementsForCyclists.html#Citrate) is an herbal product marketed to reduce fatigue associated with endurance exercise. Also known as Siberian Ginseng, is a root which comes from the northeast part of China. It has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for hundreds of years to treat fatigue and to boost the immune system.

Currently, there is minimal scientific evidence to support product claims. For example, a series of studies in China and the U.S. claim to show that ciwujia causes fat to be burned in preference to carbohydrates during exercise, which reduces fatigue from lactic acid buildup. However, these studies were performed by the makers of the commercial product, were not done with sound science, and (needless to say) have not been published in scientific journals.

Here is an example of how these companies try to use science to deceive us:

"In [two] clinical studies versus the leading sports drink Endurox R4 Improved performance by 55% and reduced muscle stress by 36%."
-- www.enduroxr4.com/clinical.htm

Whenever you see medical results being presented by companies selling you something, don’t believe whatever they say. In the first study, they compared R4 to Gatorade, and not any serious sport drink. This is a clear indication that the makers of R4 funded this study. In particular, the author of the second study was the guy who invented R4 – a clear conflict of interests. Additionally, the second study showed nothing more than that protein helps recovery. Duh. These studies were never subject to any professional review. Even if the studies were well run, they aren't giving us any reason to chose R4 over much less expensive alternatives, since they didn't do comparisons against them.

Nat.

[Trainerdan]

I did my own little research on ginseng 3 years ago with some personal trainer co-workers and here is what we came up with:

Dosage: 200mg, 3 times per day - 1 dose taken 1 hour prior to cardio work

Our group: Didn’t produce noticeable fat loss effects during the 8 week trial with Siberian ginseng; it did put us in a better mood sometimes, though. It tastes good in iced tea!

After about 2 weeks, treadmill workouts seemed to be less strenuous, which I can attribute to the reported endurance boosting abilities of ginseng.

Short version:

As you may have seen at you local health food store (I saw it at a convenience store!), there are many types of ginseng on the market today.

Ginseng has been used for centuries all over the world to treat a wide variety of ailments.

It became famous when it was discovered that the former Soviet Union athletes and cosmonauts used ginseng.

The form of ginseng most widely used for athletic purposes in Siberian ginseng (or euleuthro). This is the form used in most commercial ginseng concoctions, like Endurox and Ginsana.

Siberian ginseng is touted as a remedy for stress, fatigue, and for it’s immune- system stimulating effects. It has also been stated in the science community that it may stimulate the formation of proteins and cell-repair enzymes in the body.

Our little experiment showed slight results in increased endurance on the treadmill (I’ll be the first to admit, it is FAR from scientific).

Since ginseng is relatively inexpensive, give it a try and see for yourself.

Additional Research:

L. McNaughton, et al., A comparison of Chinese and Russian ginseng as ergogenic aids to improve various facets of physical fitness, Int. Clin. Nutr. Rev. 9 (1989): 32-37

M.S. Bahrke, et al., Evaluation of the ergogenic properties of ginseng., Sports Med. 18.4 (1994): 229-248

[Natrushka]

Dan, any comments or thoughts on Pentabosol (http://www.pentabosol.com/) ? I must admit that of anything I've found, this one has me intrigued.

Nat

[Trainerdan]

I'll admit that I have never heard of this specific product before you mentioned it Nat, but at further poking around their site, the active ingedients of Pentabosol are:

carnitine, hydroxycitrate (HCA), chromium, aspartic acid, and biotin

CARNITINE (specifically, Actyl-L-Carnitine) has been shown to be useful in burining circulating free fatty acids. This was shown in rat studies ...

Author(s):Ruggiero FM Cafagna F Gadaleta MN Quagliariello E

Journal:Biochem-Biophys-Res-Commun. 1990 Jul 31; 170(2): 621-6 1990 0006-291X

Fatty acid patterns in the plasma of aged rats show remarkable alterations when compared with control rats. These changes reverted to normal after three hours of acetyl-L-carnitine treatment.

No significant differences in the erythrocyte lipid pattern of young and aged rats were observed.

This study provides the first proof that acetyl-L-carnitine probably acts by lowering free and esterified cholesterol and arachidonic acid (20:4) levels in the plasma.


---

HCA (Hydroxycitric Acid) has been taking a beating in the supplement world. It came out with big promises, but not many people see results from it.

Author(s):Heymsfield SB Allison DB Vasselli JR Pietrobelli A Greenfield D Nunez C

Journal:JAMA. 1998 Nov 11; 280(18): 1596-600 1998 0098-7484

Overweight men and women subjects (mean body mass index [weight in kilograms divided by the square of height in meters], approximately 32 kg/m2).

A total of 135 subjects were randomized to either active hydroxycitric acid (n = 66) or placebo (n = 69); 42 (64%) in the active hydroxycitric acid group and 42 (61%) in the placebo group completed 12 weeks of treatment (P = .74).

Patients in both groups lost a significant amount of weight during the 12-week treatment period (P<.001); however, between-group weight loss differences were not statistically significant (mean [SD], 3.2 [3.3] kg vs 4.1 [3.9] kg; P = .14).

There were no significant differences in estimated percentage of body fat mass loss between treatment groups, and the fraction of subject weight loss as fat was not influenced by treatment group.

CONCLUSIONS: Garcinia cambogia failed to produce significant weight loss and fat mass loss beyond that observed with placebo.

---

CHROMIUM is present to help stabilize insulin levels I assume, which baffles me since when we are on low-carbs, insulin activity is low, right?

But, I have seen chromium work in weight loss in individuals who were chromium deficient.

As for aspartic acid and biotin, I would have to dig up more on them to see why they are in there. Probably for protein or fat metabolism. I'll check it out.

[Natrushka]

Thanks, Dan. A few of the members at the PP site swear by it, was looking for your take on things. Appreciate the time.

Nat

[itsjoyful]

thanks dan :D ever think of making a trainerdan book that is just a print out of all your posts..... hey, wait a min. if i could do that myself!!!

thanks again.
brenda

[Trainerdan]

I have started work on a book on metabolism and fat loss ... basically compiling the "tricks" and tips that I have acculmulated along the way from my own fat loss battle that started 5 years ago ...

It is intended to take someone who has not started dieting yet, and show that person how to take small changes at first, mapping out EVERYTHING along the way, and tossing in the tricks that I have learned to break through plateuas, etc.

Plus, it will have a supplement section as well as a low-carb section, of course.

I have just started to compile the info ... and I have written the outline so it will be awhile before it is a finished product ... but it is in the works.

[itsjoyful]

well, whenever it's published, i would like a signed copy. consider this my pre-order!!
one question though - my interest in this product was the oxygen
utilization. up until this past may, i was a smoker :eek: pack a day for 20 years. so my concern when i'm running is that i'm not at peak performance because of you lungs, not my endurance (muscle capacity). or is this even an issue?
since i'm strength training now, i'm hoping to increase my pace. is that a reasonable goal?
once again, my gratitude
brenda