Eating Less Fat in Maintenance?

[Qmass]

Hello!

I have followed Atkins very carefully for over a year and am just moving into maintenance over the last month or so. Now I am trying to understand the role fat should play in my diet during maintenance.

In re-reading Atkins, I don't see that he tells us to cut back on fat when we reach goal. He tells us to increase carbs, which means the ratio of fat in the diet will go down, but he doesn't actually say eat less fat.

But should we? Do you?

I have switched to low fat mayo. Also, for most things, I have replaced butter with transfat-free Smart Balance with Omega 3. Also have cut down on the amount of half n half in my coffee, and I seldom eat bacon anymore.

I don't count calories, but that is the general concern. I worry that I will get too many calories with lots of full fat mayo, etc. It would also be nice to lower my LDL, which is somewhat high.

Am I helping my cause or hurting my cause by cutting back on fat? Should I cut back even more? What do you do?

Thank you for any thoughts!
Beth

[LC-Laur]

I had to cut fat, big time. But I only cut it where it won't affect taste. For instance, I don't notice a big difference between full-fat mayo and reduced-fat, so I eat the reduced-fat (Hellmann's only! :D ). Same with cream cheese and ricotta... Sour cream, on the other hand, I notice a BIG difference, so I use the full-fat, I just try and limit how much I use. I use reduced fat cheese in cooking or in salads, but if I'm just going to eat an ounce of cheese, I eat the full-fat. I only eat red meat once/week and I always choose the lean cuts (93% lean ground beef). I use more chicken breast and try and eat more fish/seafood. Although my fat is higher than a "low fat diet," it's still much lower than when I still started out on Atkins... It's moreso about calories at this point for me, so long as I avoid the "white stuff."

[jadefox26]

I personally would keep in the good fats but just cut them down a little ,like the oilve oil in salads is great because it's so good for you - just the right type of oil for a healthy diet, but cut back on cream and butter if it makes things easier for you :)

[LC-Laur]

oh, believe me - there is still plenty of fat in my diet (I'm the olive oil queen). I just made a few small cuts where I could just to save on calories. But I'd never sacrifice taste. I never want to be back to that place where I eat salad w/o dressing. Yuck!

[Qmass]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!

I am also eating salmon two nights a week, and so fewer beef dishes. I'm hoping that's a step in the right direction, too.

[WendyOH]

I am also one of those that has to keep a tabs on my fats or else I gain. Actually, it wasn't until I dropped my fats considerable and raised my carbs that I ever started to lose weight. I've been able to add back some fat to maintain, but I definitely cannot overdo it. I try to eat lean meats (sirloin, lean ground beef, chicken, fish), 2% colby, mozzarella, lowfat cottage cheese, yogurt, lowfat cream cheese, and keep my use of butter, olive oil, cream, etc. to a minimum. I like using the lower fat products so that I can continue to eat nuts in moderation. My fats are currently about 50% of my daily calories, so they are in no way low:)

[KryssiMc]

Actually I have a question regarding this. If gaining weight is not an issue with the fat, do we have to cut back on it? I have trouble keeping the weight on and need the fats to add to my calorie levels. Anyone got an answer for this? Thanks.

[UpTheHill]

I'm currently maintaining on about 2300 calories. 52% of that is fat, 38% is protein, and 10% is carb. During less busy/stressful work times, I have been able to handle up to 13% carb (these numbers are my 28 day Fitday averages), but more than that and I start getting a lot of low blood sugar problems.

Lynda

[WendyOH]

Kryssi-I've often wondered the same thing. If fat doesn't make you fat, then once you are at maintenance, shouldn't you be able to increase your fat quite considerably, assuming your carbs remain the same, and not gain? I haven't really tested this out, but it is an interesting idea. Fat needs insulin to get stored, so as long as your insulin is under control, the sky should be the limit. If you are having a hard time keeping your weight up, you might want to consider upping the carbs just a bit too. I would think a raise of carbs would be more likely to help you increase weight than fat. Although, if you get too many cravings, you might have to stick with the increased fat route, but you might have to increase it quite a bit. I remember reading an excerpt from Protein Power, where they had a patient who was eating only 20g carbs per day, but a whopping 5000 calories. She was very upset that she wasn't losing b/c she was doing lowcarb. The authors looked at it from the opposite viewpoint. They couldn't believe she wasn't gaining! So we should be able to consume quite a bit of extra fat, so long as we aren't trying to lose:)

[shellslyn]

I don't watch my calories or fat and do not have a problem with gaining. My fat %'s are only slightly lower than they were during my weightloss stage.

I do have mixed feelings with the amount of fat I eat tho in concern to rising cholesterol problems.

The problem with eating a high carb/high fat diet is that your body is burning carbs instead of fat and the fat sits in your system causing high cholesterol.

So, at what point does the body stop burning the fat for fuel? Is it 100 carbs, 200 carbs?
If we keep our fats even at 50-60%, are we doing damage?

I think that is where the real concern comes in and it's something I'm going to talk to my dr about next time I go.

But....the feelings aren't mixed enough to keep my fat intake down at this time ;)

[Qmass]

Please let us know what your doctor says when you go - thanks!

I wonder about fats because my cholesterol has gone up on Atkins (unlike most people's). My doctor's only thought was to put me on drugs, so I am ignoring her. I think I should find doctor who is more helpful!

Meanwhile, I am eating less butter, less bacon, leaner meat, etc. I still eat a fair amount of fat, but am trying to be more conscious of it, etc.

[pecan]

qmass, that is strange that your cholesterol went up. perhaps you are more resistant; my grandmother couldn't lower hers through diet, and she refused to take the drugs from her doctor; however, she was successful in finding a solution. she found "red yeast rice" by searching alternative medicine, and has shocked her doctor by her lowered cholesterol levels!

just thought i'd mention that, seems worth looking into.

[Qmass]

Pecan,

Thanks for the info! I'll definitely look into it.

Qmass

[Kristine]

This is an odd conversation. Aren't a lot of you convinced that the lipid theory of heart disease, and all the saturated-fat-phobia that goes along with it, is shaky, at best? Worry over eggs, beef, dairy, and saturated fats seems unnecessary to me.

In terms of the original question, I buy full-fat products because I don't like what I see when I read the ingredient list of most reduced-fat products. :daze: Some of them read like a chemisty textbook! I haven't seen the Smart Balance stuff yet, but I rather like Udo's Choice oil and plain ol' flax seed. Without the bread, I guess I don't really need a butter-like spread. :)

Some points that I picked up from Atkins, Protein Power, Weston Price, etc:

- mono- and polyunsaturates are unstable fats. That's why it's recommended that they be purchased in dark bottles, manufactured by cold-pressing, and that they not be heated. Cheap vegetable oils that aren't produced this way have the rancid smell artificially deodorized.
- saturated fat, OTOH, is very stable. Coconut oil and clarified butter are great for cooking because of their stability.
- overheated, oxidized fats = bad! :eek:
- if salmon is farm raised, as opposed to wild, it probably lacks that favorable omega-3 content.
- red meat had gotten an unfair bad rap. Comparing its fat profile to that of chicken, turkey or pork, it only has slightly more saturated fat, but is still about 50% monounsaturated. (Moot point if you reject the cholesterol theory of CHD.)

I think it's a good idea to get a good variety of fats, and to emphasize the ones that are hard to get like the n3s, but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to the ones with a poor reputation that they don't necessarily deserve. :cool:

[WendyOH]

Kristine,

Thanks for the reminders! It is very easy to get swept back into the "fat is bad" mentality, b/c it is EVERYWHERE! Personally, I cut back on fats in some places so that I can eat more of the other fats I enjoy (i.e. nuts). But, like you, I avoid any lowfat products that contain questionable ingredients. I would much rather have a few extra calories and be eating a more natural food. I've upped the amount of coconut oil in my diet recently (~2 T. per day), and with what my doc considers high cholesterol (at 240, even though my HDL is awesome and above 70, and my triglycerides are ideal), I know he would just drop dead if he knew. Oh well. I know I am way more healthy now 20 lbs lighter than I used to be and eating probably 7-8 servings of veggies per day than I ever was while eating bagels and pasta:)

[Kristine]

Did you know that 240 was the original 'high cholesterol' boundary? The reason they dropped it to 200 was something stupid. I don't remember now, but I should try to look that one up.

[Qmass]

I wish I knew the "answer" on high cholesterol. Before I started Atkins, mine was 228, which was barely high. Now (a year later), it's 306. And my LDL went from 145 to 240! (My HDL and triglycerides improved, but the ratio is still very high.)

I have read various studies and opinions. Some say that high LDL, by itself, doesn't matter. I hope this is true, but it doesn't seem definitive. Still, it's what I was banking on when I refused my doctor's advice to take statin drugs.

If there is a way for me to lower LDL by eating less fat, then I want to do it. I am still eating cream, real cheese, and red meat, etc., but am also trying things like lower fat mayo and smart balance. And more fish.

My plan is to be somewhat fat conscious for 6 months, and then get my cholesterol tested again. This time I will ask them to break down the LDL into its subcomponents, too. I hope it will have improved, but if it hasn't, then I don't know what's next.

Following the studies that say it doesn't matter is the easiest and most appealing route, and is probably what I will do! Unfortunately, some of those studies say that high LDL doesn't matter, because it's the ratio of HDL to LDL that matters, and my ratio is still awful.

I wish I knew the answer. Sigh.

[treefrog]

QMass, you sound exactly like me. Before starting Atkins my total chol was 215, LDL was 125, HDL was 71, and triglycerides was 94 (had been like this for 10+ years).
Four months after starting Atkins my total chol went up to 273, LDL to 173 and trig to 153 (HDL stayed the same). My doctor wanted to put me on statins then. I resisted and had it tested again 4 months later.
My total went up to 294, LDL to 192, trig were 146. My doc was very worried, I still resisted the statins. I was tested again 4 months after the last one.
This time the total was 276, HDL was 92, LDL 163 and trig 105.
My ratio is excellent though, unlike yours. My doc now ways that she doesn't think it's necessary to test again for another year.

During those months though, I was very stressed over what to do. Even though I didn't want to take statins, I also didn't want to go back to my former WOE and gain back the weight. I kept thinking maybe when I got to maintenance that I could eat less fats and the numbers would improve, but everytime I tried it the pounds would creep back on, and I went back to higher fat. I was constantly battling in my mind, the validity of the lipid theory.

I am glad that after 1 year my cholesterol numbers have improved and the weight is off. But, I have to say that the evening before the last test I had Keto Cocoa Crisp cereal with skim milk for dinner, although it was followed by LC ice cream for dessert. I don't know if that had anything to do with the measurement the next morning or not.

I had also started taking Flush-free niacin twice a day, just a few weeks before the last test. These are the potential cholesterol lowering supplements I currently take: 500mg Niacin 2x a day. 1200mg Fish Oil 2x a day. 1000mg Flaxseed Oil 2x a day. This combination may also have influenced my results.

I hope it all works out for you. I don't know how long you have been LC, but I say stick with it, and don't give in to statins (yet). I don't know if I would have ever considered taking statins, although I though about it a lot. I know several people who take them and have great results, being able to bring down their LDL and staying LC.

Cathy

[Qmass]

Cathy,

Thanks so much for the encouraging words! I really wonder why my cholesterol went up, when everyone else's goes down on Atkins. I guess it's just an individual thing.

I started taking fish oil a few months ago, but I didn't think to try niacin or flaxseed oil. I will give them a try, too.

It looks like your HDL went up so much that your ratio is good. Maybe mine will go up, too, if I give it more time. It has gone up a little bit already, in the year that I've been doing Atkins.

I am inclined not to do statin drugs, as long as my HDL and triglycerides stay good. After all, there is no clear scientific consensus in that direction, either!

It's really nice to know that someone else has solved this problem. I'm less discouraged now. :-)

Beth

[Rain1272]

qmass, that is strange that your cholesterol went up. perhaps you are more resistant; my grandmother couldn't lower hers through diet, and she refused to take the drugs from her doctor; however, she was successful in finding a solution. she found "red yeast rice" by searching alternative medicine, and has shocked her doctor by her lowered cholesterol levels!

just thought i'd mention that, seems worth looking into.


Pecan, I too was using red yeast rice to help lower my cholesterol since I was was shocked and maddend by the extremely dangerous side effects of statin drugs. I just now found out that red yeast rice is the base of statin drugs so in effect I put myself back on the same drug I argued with my dr. that I wouldnt take. Make sure that your friend is taking Co-Q10 if she is going to continue with the red yeast rice.

[ojoj]

Well i havent cut fats at all!!! They fill me up and any unused fats seem to go through undigested!! I still eat just about the same as I did on induction, maybe my portion sizes are smaller, but I snack at least twice a day on nuts, peperami etc. and occasioanlly i may miss my evening meal cos I'm not hungry.

I still only have about 20-30g of carbs a day and as I've said in another post my calories are around 4000 a day.

The rubbish they put in these low fat foods is the reason I wont go down that route

Jo

[mammac-5]

Did you know that 240 was the original 'high cholesterol' boundary? The reason they dropped it to 200 was something stupid. I don't remember now, but I should try to look that one up.


Having worked for several years in a medical environment (where the pharmaceutical reps came in to "shmooge" the docs), I believe the upper cholesterol limit was lowered to 200 when (coincidentally!!) the statin drugs were being developed, getting FDA approval and the reps started to push them with the docs.

Drug companies frequently develop a medication and then help "design" a disorder for which docs can prescribe said medication. Now they even advertise to consumers to create a demand for the medication! Think erectile dysfunction, premenopausal dysphoric syndrome (ever heard of that prior to Prozac being approved to treat it???), etc. Big pharma is big $$$.

[ItsTheWooo]

Hello!

I have followed Atkins very carefully for over a year and am just moving into maintenance over the last month or so. Now I am trying to understand the role fat should play in my diet during maintenance.

In re-reading Atkins, I don't see that he tells us to cut back on fat when we reach goal. He tells us to increase carbs, which means the ratio of fat in the diet will go down, but he doesn't actually say eat less fat.

But should we? Do you?

I have switched to low fat mayo. Also, for most things, I have replaced butter with transfat-free Smart Balance with Omega 3. Also have cut down on the amount of half n half in my coffee, and I seldom eat bacon anymore.

I don't count calories, but that is the general concern. I worry that I will get too many calories with lots of full fat mayo, etc. It would also be nice to lower my LDL, which is somewhat high.

Am I helping my cause or hurting my cause by cutting back on fat? Should I cut back even more? What do you do?

Thank you for any thoughts!
Beth

If you were losing weight pretty fast on the level of fat you were eating, it is unlikely you will need to reduce fat when you add in carbs. It's likely adding in carbs will seal the deficit by adding more calories.

On the other hand, if you were barely losing at all eating very low carb and high fat, it is likely that you WILL need to reduce fats in your diet if you want to add very many more carbs. However be wary about swapping fat calories for carb calories. As we all know a calorie is NOT a calorie to your body so it's not so simple as to say "if I use no tablespoon of mayo that means I can have a slice of hearty white bread and be ok". Carbs do things to your body that make it WANT to be fat and store energy. They shut off catabolic breakdown of fats and proteins, increase lipogenesis, which leads to increased feelings of hunger, food dependency (to the point where food becomes almost like a drug you have to take, complete with terrible "withdrawl" effects if it is delayed), and easier weight gain in general.
So please don't let yourself fall into the "it's all calories anyway" trap of thinking too far. Calories do matter, but carbs matter just as much if not MORE for the very carbohydrate sensitive. For those very sensitive to carbohydrate, calories might not even be that HIGH and they still gain/fail to lose on a reasonably low cal high carb diet. For others who are sensitive, the calorie issue takes care of itself when carbs are restricted.

I did this for many weeks and just wrote a post in fact about how I've decided it isn't worth the heart ache. I consider myself pretty carb sensitive though so you might be able to get away with the sort of diet I was eating and not experience symptoms (30%-35% carbs, 40-45% fats). I however cannot, not without considerable heart ache and struggle and less than optimal well being.

[Qmass]

Thanks - that's very helpful!

[KryssiMc]

I too am concerned about eating a higher carb amount in maintenance while still eating higher fat. But then I think about my maintenance number and how much lower it still is than what I was eating before and I just keep eating my fat!