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kingb123
Tue, Aug-17-04, 13:10
I know that homemade ECA stacks work best but I don't wanna mess around with ephedra. Has anyone used Xenadrine, Zantrec, Hydroxycut, Stacker 2 or the ilk; what effect has it had? I only want opinions from people who have actually used the product. Thanks, Brian

mps
Tue, Aug-17-04, 14:40
Ripped fuel works for a pre-workout energy boost. You could probably get the same effect from caffine though.

adukart
Tue, Aug-17-04, 15:35
Sorry to butt in here with no experience but I don't think you should need to take any thermogenics or caffiene at your age.

EDIT: but I take green tea extract twice a day and that has helped with my energy

kingb123
Tue, Aug-17-04, 15:50
I'm almost 18 and basically finished growing (I think). I don't want to do anything heavy but I don't think a thermo burner can hurt

Brandon
Wed, Aug-18-04, 09:25
Don't waste your money on anything other than a homemade ECA or ECY stack, you won't notice much of anything. It's a personal decision, studies go both ways on ephedrine, it's up to you. I use an EC stack (200mg C 25mg E) 3x a day, for 4 weeks. Then I take 6 weeks off, and repeat. If you've never used an EC(x) stack before I'd definitely start off slow (once a day) and work your way up to 3 a day to make sure you can handle it, and to reduce the chance of any negative side effects.

Like I said, it's a personal choice, just make sure you read everything you can on the subject and you know what your doing before you decide.

jagbender
Wed, Aug-18-04, 09:57
No on EYC
Ephedra and Yohimbine shouldn't be taken together.
YC yes
Y and E together can cause a heart and blood preasure problems.
Also there is no need for Aspirin in the ECA stack.

Jag

Brandon
Wed, Aug-18-04, 10:47
No on EYC
Ephedra and Yohimbine shouldn't be taken together.
YC yes
Y and E together can cause a heart and blood preasure problems.
Also there is no need for Aspirin in the ECA stack.

Jag

Good point, E can cause heart and blood pressue problems, so can Y, adding them together can do the same. Like I said, read and make sure you know what your doing to your body. Some people can handle it, others with a history of hypertension shouldn't touch it. Don't put anything in your body without some serious research first.. plain old common sense. :thup:

Built
Wed, Aug-18-04, 11:10
Great posts Brandon and Jag. And I agree - make your own stacks. Anything else is just a waste of money.

ASHdad
Mon, Aug-30-04, 17:18
Also there is no need for Aspirin in the ECA stack.

I was under the impression aspirin was a key component.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3825983&dopt=Abstract

liftnlady
Mon, Aug-30-04, 20:52
aspirin not needed....post by legwarmers on another board


Aspirin {salicyclic acid acetate} and it's naturally occurring methyl ester (methyl salicylate)—found in the leaves of Gaultheria procumbrens and on the bark of Betula lenta—have long been used as analgesics, anti-inflammatories, antipyretics and recently as anti-coagulants. The "A" portion of ECA, aspirin has been thought of potentiating the thermogenic and lipolytic properties of both ephedrine and caffeine. Recent research seems to contradict this however. At a study at The University of London's Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, 40 women (20 non-obese and 20 obese) were given either ephedrine and caffeine (30 mg and 100 mg) or ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin (30 mg, 100 mg, and 300 mg) post prandially (1050 kJ liquid meal). Using indirect calorimetry, observations were made in all groups every 30 minutes for 160 minutes. There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine.6

In another study conducted at King's College in London, it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women.7 The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone, which over an entire week, would represent less than one ounce of bodyweight. We feel that this is insignificant.7

Based on these two studies, we feel that aspirin and its analogs do not play a substantial role in inducing or increasing thermogenesis and/or lipolysis but they do have the potential to induce SAEs when consumed over long periods of time (e.g. ulceration of the stomach and increases in bleeding times). Therefore, we feel that aspirin and it's analogs should not be used in any thermogenic/lipolytic stack. "

The Ultimate ECA Guide
By Stephen Schmitz, MD, MPH
and Bruce Kneller, BSN-RN

References

1) Goodman and Gillman, The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, Ninth Edition, p.221.
2) FDA New Final Rule Regarding Serious Adverse Events (effective 04/06/9.
3) Office of Special Nutritionals: Market Review of Dietary Supplements Containing Ephedrine Alkaloids, August 27, 1996.
4) Lak CR, Rosenberg DB, Gallant S, et al. Phenylpropanolamine Increases Plasma Caffeine Levels. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, 1990;47:675-684.
5) Federal Register, Vol. 62(107). 21 CFR Part 111, Dietary Supplements Containing Ephedrine Alkaloids, Proposed Rule.
6) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
7) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.
Kucio C, Jonderko K, Piskorska D. Does Yohimbine Act as a Slimming Drug? Isr J Med Sci 1991 Oct:27(10):550-556.9) Galitzky J, Vermorel M, Lafontan M, Montastruc P. Thermogenic and Lipolytic Effect of Yohimbine in the Dog. Br J Pharmacol 1991 Oct;104(2):514-518.
10) Berlan M, Galitzky J, et al. Plasma Catecholamine Levels and Lipid Mobilization Induced by Yohimbine in Obese and Non-obese Women. Int J Obes 1991 May;15(5):305-315.
11) Hull KM, Maher TJ. Effects of L-tyrosine on Mixed Acting Sympathomimetic-induced Pressor Actions. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1992 Dec;43(4):1047-1052.
12) Kull KM, Maher TJ. L-tyrosine Fails to Potentiate Several Peripheral Actions of the Sympathomimetics. 1991 Jul;39(3):755-759.
13) Wellman PJ, Marmon MM. Comparison on Brown Adipose Tissue Thermogenesis Induced by Congeners and Isomers of Phenylpropanolamine. Life Sci 1985 Sep 16;37(11):1023-1028.
14) Wellman PJ, Sellers TL. Weight Loss Induced by Chronic Phenylpropanolamine: Anorexia and Brown Adipose Tissue Thermogenesis. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1986 Mar;24(3):605-611.
15) Welman, PJ, Marmon MM. Synergism Between Caffeine and DL-Phenylpropanolamine on Brown Adipose Tissue in the Adult Rat. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1985 May;22(5):781-78.