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Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!



carriegirl
Tue, Jun-01-04, 14:07
Hi.

I have "lurked" in your cave for a little while, reading many of the postings in this very interesting forum. I find myself attracted to this way of thinking about food, and I am not sure why.

Here's a little history about me... I gained nearly 80 lbs. eating low-fat vegetarian over the last decade. I am 38 and hypertensive secondary to the weight gain. Recently, I learned about low carb and gave that a try for weight loss. Atkins gave me moderate but slow success (17 lbs in 5 months) but I found it impossible to stay on happily. Protein Power was a little easier to tolerate, but still slow on weight loss. The Zone was quite enjoyable (fruits!), but left me often hungry and with cravings (which made it impossible to stay on full-time.) None of these plans left me feeling healthy. I also have an amateur interest in anthropology, nutrition, etc. A nutritionist years ago told me that she didn't think I could healthily be a vegetarian long-term as my ancestors were Danish and Norweigen.

Anyway, this plan seems so healthy for the body, and I can see how diseases may be reversed or avoided by following it, but how is it for weight loss? I have so much to lose, the path seems almost overwhelming at times. I want desperately to lose weight, but I want to re-gain my health at the same time. How does one get started on this way? My last question is which book would you start with, Paleo or Neanderthin?

Thank you so much in advance for any thoughts you could share.

Carrie

arcticslug
Tue, Jun-01-04, 14:55
Hi Carriegirl,

If you are a science buff, read Paleolithic Diet by Loren Cordain. It's great...there is more to this way of eating than just losing weight and information about carbs. Cordain has a lot of very interesting research on the reasons different foods (soy, dairy, beans) have bad effects on your body. I really enjoyed it. However, most people on this forum including myself believe that fat is necessary for losing weight and health, and the author says to try to stick to low fat. Neanderthin has a better view on that and encourages eating fat. I guess it might be better to start with Neanderthin as it is an easier read and higher fat....and then for more scientific health info read Paleolithic Diet.

What I recommend is trying the diet and don't cheat at ALL for a month. If you want to cheat, tell yourself you'll do it after the month. Its the best way to really get good results. If you are strict then you'll see how much better you can really feel, and there will most likely be a lot of unexpected health improvements. Once you have done the diet for at least a month then start adding in little cheats if you have to. Then you can gauge the effect dairy, salt, beans or whatever you want to add has on your health. I did this and the most amazing result was a complete lifting of depression.

Good luck! This is a really really great way of eating and once you discover the health benefits that you'll be having that is a great motivator for eating healthy. I personally hate depression and by eating this way I can ensure that I'll keep my mood up - wonderful motivation.

MichaelG
Tue, Jun-01-04, 23:12
Hi CarrieGirl
Like you I was attracted to Vegetarianism and put on a lot of weight because of using a lot of potatoes, breads, pasta and vegetable oils / margarine.

Years ago I had bad arthritis (psoriatic arthritis) and a rheumatologist who had practiced in the Pacific Islands, (our neighbours here in Australia) said that they had very little arthritis because of their diet of fish, eggs, pigs, fruit and veg, particularly coconuts and 'primitive' veg such as yams. They also eat some imported rice.

I tried an equivalent diet, together with swimming and walking, and the arthritis mostly cleared up and hasn't been back for years.

So I was very susceptible to a Paleolithic diet and have been on it for a year. My advice is to initially avoid the 'agricultural' foods such as white potatoes bread, pasta, large quantities of rice, dairy products and particularly vegetable oils and margarines, even the so called extra virgin and cold pressed ones. We are not genetically programmed to run on them.

Let's face it the typical modern fast food such as a pizza is composed almost entirely of bread, cheese, and 'trans fats', with only a few token bits of 'real' foods on it - mostly the onions and salami!


See how you go, and don't be afraid of fats from meat and fish.

All the best

Michael Gardner
Queensland
Australia

Hellistile
Wed, Jun-02-04, 08:35
Welcome to our cave, Carrie. Good luck to you.

carriegirl
Wed, Jun-02-04, 10:08
Thank you all so much! This way of living is all so interesting and you have such a supportive forum going here! I think I'll give this a serious try. Do you monitor how much of each macronutrient you consume (required protein vs fats vs carbs), or do you just eat intuitively, whatever it seems you want/need? (Is this information covered in the books, I'm sorry, I haven't read either of the books yet... but I will, I promise.)

Thanks again,
Carrie

Hellistile
Wed, Jun-02-04, 10:55
Carrie: Here are a few websites that will give you some general information on hunter-gatherers and what they ate. This should keep you busy until you can get your hands on the two main Paleo Diet books.

http://www.healingcrow.com/dietsmain/dietsmain.html
http://www.theomnivore.com/index.html
http://www.paleodiet.com/
www.PaleoFood.com
www.Foraging.com
http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/
http://www.naturalhub.com/opinion_r...uman_animal.htm
http://www.naturalhub.com/opinion_r..._human_diet.htm
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/paleodiet/index.shtml
http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html

Articles
http://www.sofdesign.com/neanderthin/observer.html
http://www.mercola.com/2003/oct/22/paleo_diet.htm
www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/oiling.html
http://atkins.com/Archive/2002/10/7-248323.html

Happy reading!

daguttgrl7
Wed, Jun-02-04, 14:08
hello there and welcome. i'm pretty new around the cave myself, but have noticed some uplifting and positive results since joining. one thing i found is that i'm super sensitive to sweets, so even though we can have fruits i still have to be careful. the smallest taste of sugar triggers off something inside and i tend to have the urge to eat mass quantities of fruit if i let myself have more than a little bit. pigging out never feels good later, even on just fruit:) i used to be one of those people that drank coffee just so i could have something to dilute the sugar - teeheehee.

hugs and welcome!

danni

mio1996
Wed, Jun-02-04, 16:41
Welcome to the cave, carriegirl!

pinkys140
Sat, Jun-12-04, 17:21
i have never been in the cave but it seemed to draw me in. I am going to go research these plans. I know sugar is my enemy and it makes me feel horrible. I have so many questions. I have never even heard of the two plans on this forum. I desperatly want my health back and I have to lose around 150 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TwilightZ
Sat, Jun-12-04, 22:31
i have never been in the cave but it seemed to draw me in. I am going to go research these plans. I know sugar is my enemy and it makes me feel horrible. I have so many questions. I have never even heard of the two plans on this forum. I desperatly want my health back and I have to lose around 150 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The book Neanderthin, by Ray Audette explains this diet. The paperback version is cheap and an easy and quick read. It has fascinating information and I believe will enlighten you. You can also check out some info at neanderthin.com.

Howard

mio1996
Sun, Jun-13-04, 14:27
Pinkys, you should really give neanderthin a try. Most people have no idea how easy it can be to feel better and lose weight. Neanderthin is an easy plan to follow WITH NO COUNTING OF ANYTHING! You simply have a list of foods you can eat and some you cannot eat. It could not be any simpler. I wish more of the Atkins people would come in here...

nepeta
Sun, Jun-13-04, 16:09
hey i'm new too. i joined this site almost a week ago & have come over here to lurk some. for now i'm sticking with atkins till i lose most of the weight i want to lose. from what i've read, eventually i may end up doing more of the paleo- diet. i believe i'm somewhat close to it now anyways, as i've never digested soy and beans well & i have a dairy allergy & use coconut milk.
i may pick up the book neanderthin when i get a chance.

TigerMama
Mon, Jul-12-04, 11:24
Oh, excellent websites! Thank you for all that info.

I started paleo a while back and didnt even realize it :lol It was just a general progression to more natural foods. Gosh, I feel so much better. Now, if only I could get meds out of my system :lol

PlaneCrazy
Mon, Jul-12-04, 19:12
. I wish more of the Atkins people would come in here...

I'm here! :) I wouldn't say I'm pure Atkins, nor pure Neaderthin. I find that I am too liable to pig out on fruit, even berries, to the point where I don't feel good. It's the closest thing I have to a food "problem." Other than fruit, I don't count my carbs, but I do eat dairy every once in a while. (whole cream, yogurt, cheese, sour cream) and don't have a problem with them.

Other than that, I'm pretty close to Neaderthin. I don't eat any processed food except freshly made sausage periodically. I've read parts of the book and find it interesting. My background in Chinese Archeaology and facination with the history of early humans makes me particularly attracted to it.

I also like the attitude over here better than the Atkins board. My lard fetish is more tolerated here, as well. :D

Plane Crazy

batgirl
Tue, Jul-13-04, 15:20
I recently read The Protein Power Lifeplan by the Dr.s Eades. It was very informative. It has the scientific explanations behind the paleo/neanderthin diet. I highly recommend it.

zedgirl
Tue, Jul-13-04, 17:36
I wish more of the Atkins people would come in here...

I’m here too. Like PlaneCrazy I’m not pure Atkins or Neanderthin but the longer I low carb the more drawn I am to the basic principles of Neanderthin. It’s just that I like my dairy foods (cheese, creams and butter) and don’t want to give them up. I also like my coffee even if it has taken me eighteen months to get used to it without milk and sugar…………..oh and my one glass of wine in the evening……and salt……I guess I’m just not cut out for Neanderthin!!

TwilightZ
Tue, Jul-13-04, 20:29
I’m here too. Like PlaneCrazy I’m not pure Atkins or Neanderthin but the longer I low carb the more drawn I am to the basic principles of Neanderthin. It’s just that I like my dairy foods (cheese, creams and butter) and don’t want to give them up. I also like my coffee even if it has taken me eighteen months to get used to it without milk and sugar…………..oh and my one glass of wine in the evening……and salt……I guess I’m just not cut out for Neanderthin!!

I admire anyone following Neanderthin to the letter, but I think of this more as a mindset or approach to eating and lifestyle. In this modern age, where we are surrounded by processed food, and finding clean, natural food is difficult and expensive, I think that we can cut ourselves some slack, especially as the foods commonly mentioned as unforfeitable are neither sugar nor grains and are minimally processed compared to the other garbage out there. I still drink coffee, either with cream or coconut cream, I have been known to put butter and/or salt on vegetables if needed (the collards and kale lately have been downright bitter), eat sausage, and sometimes we make our own blue cheese dressing for salad. And although I don't drink on a regular basis, if I have to deal with relatives, I will medicate myself as needed, if you know what I mean. I still consider myself Neanderthin, Hunter-Gatherer, etc. Even Ray Audette admits to cheating every once in a while and with stuff that I wouldn't touch, like ice cream, for example.

You can see the difference between this mindset and those of most Atkins and similar plans by reading through their posts. The main concern is not health, but simply losing weight. They play the numbers game with carbs, and any processed low-carb substitute is fair game. They often speak of sugar substitutes, fake bread and pasta, fake everything, ways to simulate sin foods. And finally, when they reach their goal weight, they begin to incorporate the sin foods back into the diet, opening themselves up to failure and weight regain. Is it any wonder that you read many who are trying low-carb for the umpteenth time. Not that it doesn't happen, but I've yet to see anyone with our mindset talk of failure. I believe this is because even with the few out-of-bounds items, eating naturally frees you from the prison of craving garbage, and the health benefits are such that I know that at least I can't go back to eating the old way or I will die young.

So, I believe you are of the caveman mindset, perhaps with a few modern allowances, and I don't think anyone would mind if you labeled yourself as such.

zedgirl
Tue, Jul-13-04, 21:41
Why thanks, but I prefer ‘cavewoman’. :lol:

I do agree that it is a mindset and that a lot of low-carbers have completely missed the point. For many the transition is a gradual one. When I first started low-carbing it was sort of important to be able to hold on to some of the old foods (in the form of substitutes) to make continuing possible. But gradually the need for that stuff diminishes and eventually the thought of eating it doesn’t appeal at all. I like to concentrate on all the wonderful foods I can now eat rather than concentrating on what I can’t have anymore (bread is about the only thing I miss).
Plus being a committed low-carber should mean that you are more educated about health and nutrition than the average person and should not want to return to old habits. Every day I learn something new and every day I become more disillusioned with mainstream health advice on all levels and fearful for friends and family that do not follow this WOL.

PlaneCrazy
Tue, Jul-13-04, 21:53
Uuh. Me caveman too. :) (granted, a goat cheese-eating caveman, but it was locally-raised, grass-fed goats) :D

Plane Crazy

Hellistile
Wed, Jul-14-04, 12:55
This is off topic but does anyone know what type of diet David Bowie espoused?

PlaneCrazy
Wed, Jul-14-04, 14:31
This is off topic but does anyone know what type of diet David Bowie espoused?

I don't know about what he espouses, but from Googling him I found references to diets of only raw eggs when he was young, cocaine and milk, and amphetamines at various times.

But I did find that Luther Vandros lost all of his weight using a low-carb diet.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Downtown/2020/Downtown_010625_luthervandross_feature.html

Plane Crazy

Hellistile
Wed, Jul-14-04, 15:04
Luther looks like he's on south beach or something by the following quote:

"Breakfast, for example, is usually Egg Beaters or a turkey burger. "A turkey burger with the right seasonings, with sage and all of that stuff, really tastes like sausage," he says. And dinner, he says, consists of "vegetables, fish, chicken and fruit — that's it."

Egg beaters?

The reason I asked about Bowie is because of that arterial blockage. Wonder what kind of diet caused that?

PlaneCrazy
Wed, Jul-14-04, 15:28
The reason I asked about Bowie is because of that arterial blockage. Wonder what kind of diet caused that?

The milk and cocaine diet? Just guessing. :)

Actually, I've heard cocaine use can have all kinds of serious cardiovascular impacts, but don't know any details.

Plane crazy

MamaSara6
Thu, Jul-15-04, 06:26
I just wandered over to your cave from the Atkins-friendly Low-carb grocery store! :lol: I've been doing some form of LCing for 4-5 years now, with not much to show for weight loss. I've always been pretty much of a "whole foods" mindset (including whole grains) and aimed for that goal, but after struggling to count carbs for the past couple of years, I'm moving closer to the paleo diet. I definitely have no respect for low-carb substitutes (though I've been known to use them once in a while), but I have great respect for all edibles in the form God made them. Why would He make coconuts out of saturated fat if it was so bad for us?????

Like some of you, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to entirely give up my cream and the occasional chemical-laden diet soda :o , but I don't believe counting carbs is the way to go either. And I'm starting to look at whole wheat spaghetti and even milk as processed (pasteurization)! Still waiting for my copy of Neanderthin to give me ammo, but I'm starting today---hunting, fishing, and gathering! :lol:

Hellistile
Thu, Jul-15-04, 08:25
MamaSara: Welcome to our cozy little cave. Sounds like you've put some thinking into how you should eat. Bravo! As individuals we all have different needs, wants, desires and circumstances. These forums help us to find exactly what works for us and what we can live with. I wish you good luck in your search.

mio1996
Fri, Jul-16-04, 17:23
Uuh. Me caveman too. :) (granted, a goat cheese-eating caveman, but it was locally-raised, grass-fed goats) :D

Plane Crazy

Well, the author of Neanderthin says that cheese is probably the least of the forbidden fruits of technology. It's fat/carb ratio is very much like meat anyway, and it never seems to cause me problems. Cheese is a beautiful thing :)

carriegirl
Sun, Jul-18-04, 16:40
I actually did it! I successfully ate paleo, without cheating for a little while and I found BOUNDLESS ENERGY! :D (My partner wanted to know what drugs I was on, hahaha!) Then, sadly, I started "cheating" and it all rolled downhill so fast. Really, it was more like an avalanche. Sigh. :confused: I think I need to start again because now I have no energy at all and I am eating all kinds of processed crap. My downfall began with coffee, cream and red wine. Interesting how your body acts when you give it what it needs.

toopoles
Sun, Jul-18-04, 18:47
Almost all downfalls (at least for me) seem to start with trigger foods. Regretfully, one of my favorite foods is dairy and it always triggers me to eat much more of all the wrong things.

Good luck climbing back on the paleo wagon. I have had to do that this past weekend myself. I have been travelling and not eating foods that were good for me. Today, I took the time to cook up some foods that will help me follow this woe better.

Have a great week, Marty

MamaSara6
Mon, Jul-19-04, 04:43
I finally got my book! :) But I haven't had as much time to read it as I would like---it is fascinating, though.

I've been trying to get into the diet gradually and I thought yesterday was a miserable failure (a little corn tortillas and sausage!), but my weight is down a pound! :thup:

We're leaving for the family reunion/beach trip on Sunday where I will be surrounded by carbs and just general crap. Where can you buy pemmican (tho I had nightmares about it the other night and am scared to try it! :lol: ) and good jerky? Do they have some at Costco? We don't have a Trader Joes, but nearly everything else. What about Trail Mix? Seems like most have peanuts and cashews and M&Ms (yumm!). I want to have some stuff that I can keep in our room so I can eat privately sometimes and not have to answer a zillion questions---they already think I'm weird enough. :p

Sara

toopoles
Mon, Jul-19-04, 23:54
I often carry things with me to eat. I often carry hamburgers that I have precooked and frozen, boiled eggs, crudites, etc. I have found that this helps me not indulge in things I shouldn't eat or if I do indulge, I have the tendency to indulge much less.

They don't last the whole trip, but it's a nice start and sets the tone for my journey. Be creative and take what you like. I have purchased lemon juice in packets which can help also. Marty