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corianin
Sun, May-02-04, 22:35
I am by far no expert when it comes to exercise. I just started working out about 2 months ago and researching the different types of exercise and fitness info. My dad used to be very much into bodybuilding and I would like to train also. I am a 24 yr old female. Weight 185, BF- 28%. I read that without adequate glucose in your bloodstream during strenuous weight training your body will first turn to muscle then to fat for energy therefore making your workout catabolic (Nutrient Timing - John Ivy PhD, Robert Portman PhD). I am cutting carbs to become more healthy and lose fat but I do not want to sacrifice muscle. How many carbs are necessary while weight training to reduce catabolism?
Monday - Upper body
Tuesday - lower body
Wednesday - Abs
Thursday - Upper body
Friday - lower body
Saturday - Abs

I used to throw in 30 minutes of cardio on top of those workouts... Now I cut back my cardio to twice a week for 20-25 minutes. I would like to stay LC and still weight train, is this feasible or are higher carb percentages neccessary for serious weight training? Any suggestions, links to info or just plain ole opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!!


~ Cori ~

Built
Mon, May-03-04, 14:17
Hi there Cori

There's LOTS of ways to do this.

You could try TKD if you like - it's not a bad way to start fiddling with increasing carbs before lifting. I did it successfully for a long time, and still return to it from time to time.

The amounts and timing vary - some like their carbs before, some after.

I'm a woman, and I get fat from post WO carbs, so I like mine before: about half an hour before you lift, eat some fast carb (something sweet without too much protein and very little fat - fruit, angel food cake, or even white rice if you do it more like about an hour pre-lifting). Don't do any cardio, of course, before you lift. Do your lifting, and if you are afraid of the extra blood sugar spilling over into fat stores, do a little cardio after you lift - JUST enough to put you back into ketosis. If you really focus on your lifting, you should burn most of it off.

How much?

You'll have to see. I found about 40-60g worked well for me - I lift HEAVY. To start, you may want to try it with 20-30g to start and check your ketones, and how you feel of course.

PWO, get in a whey shake to help rebuild your tissues. Low carb!

Did I get it right Trainerdan?
:)

corianin
Mon, May-03-04, 21:59
Thanks for the advice!!! Nearly all of the bodybuilding books I've read talk about higher carb ratio to proteins and fats. I know that LC burns fat, I've lost 35lbs of it since January. But up until now I wasn't lifting. Now how do you know what you're doing is working? If you're gaining inches and gaining weight from muscle mass how are you sure that what you're doing is burning fat and gaining muscle instead of adding on fat? I'm just all paranoid about doing the wrong thing. There is just so much info on bodybuilding! Do this, don't eat this, lift this way. It's pretty overwhelming for a newbie. Thanks again for the help! It's good to know there are other LC lifters out there!!!

~ Cori ~

Built
Mon, May-03-04, 22:15
Thanks for the advice!!! Nearly all of the bodybuilding books I've read talk about higher carb ratio to proteins and fats. I know that LC burns fat, I've lost 35lbs of it since January. But up until now I wasn't lifting. Now how do you know what you're doing is working? If you're gaining inches and gaining weight from muscle mass how are you sure that what you're doing is burning fat and gaining muscle instead of adding on fat? I'm just all paranoid about doing the wrong thing. There is just so much info on bodybuilding! Do this, don't eat this, lift this way. It's pretty overwhelming for a newbie. Thanks again for the help! It's good to know there are other LC lifters out there!!!

~ Cori ~

MUSCLES burns fat. Low carb just helps them do it.

It is a LOT easier to burn fat than build muscle. You can't build muscle as fast as you can burn fat. If your weight goes up more than a couple of pounds, it's fat.

I started this little adventure at 170 pounds. I'm hovering in the high 130s now. I figure in two and a half years of lifting, eating TONS of protein, really watching my diet, and lifting as heavy as I can and training like a fiend, I MIGHT have put on about 12 lbs of muscle. So That means I've actually probably dropped about 40-45 pounds of fat.

This actually blows my mind.

I'm 5'8", and most people who don't lift figure I weigh at least 15 pounds less than I do. Muscle is heavy. But it REALLY takes a long time to put on.

There is something BBs know about with neophites - it's called the "newbie phenominon" - newbie women training and eating right can expect to gain 8-10 pounds of muscle their first year. They can also expect to drop fat at the same time.

This will never happen again. Once you get past this initial, remarkable phase, you have to pick whether you are going to bulk, or cut. You can't do both well.

The scale will go down as you become more muscular, because the muscle will burn off the fat.

You will also either freak out or be overjoyed at the "huge" muscles you think you are putting on in that first year.

As I enter my third year doing this, I am hoping that I MIGHT put on another - wait for it - two or three pounds of muscle THIS YEAR. And this might be optimistic, but hey, ya gotta have goals ;)

Don't be afraid of your muscle growth. Just let it happen. I kinda have this conjecture that we are meant to be whatever size we end up - and the women you see who are very large and bulked up - they take steroids to achieve this look, because they really want it and because they work hard to achieve it. It's not for me, but it's a choice. It does NOT happen by accident. So just lift. Experiment with the carbs. And I do recommend TKD pre workout carbs for the lifting, but only once you are lifting heavy enough that you are stalled and can't lift anything heavier. You will find this will get you to the next dumbbell size, and trust me, you find yourself REALLY looking forward to your lifting days lol!

corianin
Mon, May-03-04, 23:06
What are TKD carbs? I am not interested in competing so I'm not too picky on whether my arms are huge or not. As long as I look good and feel good, that's what the goal is. Everyone that I"ve talked to about weight training and bodybuilding. They say "why would you do that? You'll get huge!?!!" As in, as soon as I make the decision to bodybuild my body will balloon to enormous proportions. Not some gradual process that I alone control. I think bodybuilding has been pretty misunderstood and not valued for the healthy benefits it can give an individual.


~ Cori ~

Built
Mon, May-03-04, 23:19
Targeted Ketogenic Diet - variation on the Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. I posted what to do up the thread a bit. There may be some info in some of the other forums here. Just the pre-lifting carbs thing.

Your arms won't get huge. I'm actually TRYING, and MINE aren't huge either - but they have some nice size, and I'm very happy with them (that's me in my gallery shot - about two months ago). And I don't compete either.

Ahhhh the "Oh my G*d - you don't want to look like ARNOLD, do you?" argument. Probably the same people who will tell you that low-fat is the way to slimness...but I'm not bitter....

Muscles make you leaner!

And besides, without a whole lot of carbs, TRUST me, you can't bulk. I have to go on a bulking cycle of carb consumption for a few months at a time to get any kind of size. Then I have to trim off the extra fat that comes with the bulk. No carbs = no bulking. But do you ever get nice and hard!

watcher16
Mon, May-03-04, 23:44
What are TKD carbs? I am not interested in competing so I'm not too picky on whether my arms are huge or not. As long as I look good and feel good, that's what the goal is. Everyone that I"ve talked to about weight training and bodybuilding. They say "why would you do that? You'll get huge!?!!" As in, as soon as I make the decision to bodybuild my body will balloon to enormous proportions. Not some gradual process that I alone control. I think bodybuilding has been pretty misunderstood and not valued for the healthy benefits it can give an individual.
So true! Woman don't get a body-builder fysique from strength training. They will start look like the models in the commercials though ;) !

jagbender
Tue, May-04-04, 07:22
Check out the CKD forum
http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
CKD and Tkd are great ways to maintain and gain muscle when losing fat.
Jag

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 08:23
So true! Woman don't get a body-builder fysique from strength training. They will start look like the models in the commercials though ;) !

YES! There's actually a category in bodybuilding competitions called "figure". These women don't look like what most people think of when they think "bodybuilder", and yet, they are.

phatfrog
Tue, May-04-04, 08:33
Built is giving some good info. I've lifted for years (with some serious gaps inbetween like the last 2 years!!) and have never gotten huge and I do heavy free weights and have worked with trainers. You get very firm and defined depending on diet. So don't worry or listen to the naysayers- my mom's the worst. Have fun and lift your heart out. It's a great stress release. You wont believe how it will sculpt your body.

Also, good supplementation is important. PR shakes, vitamins, and I try to always have a good protein shake after a workout a & add creatine to it. Creatine really helps get your muscles firm. Glutamine, omega-3 fatty acids, etc. There all important.

I have learned that I need carbs befor a workout or I get "heavy legs" and am very tired. Phat

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 08:38
Built is giving some good info. I've lifted for years (with some serious gaps inbetween like the last 2 years!!) and have never gotten huge and I do heavy free weights and have worked with trainers. You get very firm and defined depending on diet. So don't worry or listen to the naysayers- my mom's the worst. Have fun and lift your heart out. It's a great stress release. You wont believe how it will sculpt your body.

Also, good supplementation is important. PR shakes, vitamins, and I try to always have a good protein shake after a workout a & add creatine to it. Creatine really helps get your muscles firm. Glutamine, omega-3 fatty acids, etc. There all important.

I have learned that I need carbs befor a workout or I get "heavy legs" and am very tired. Phat

Oh, yeah - leg day...

Me too!

phatfrog
Tue, May-04-04, 09:27
Built- I was glad to read your post about having some fast acting carbs before a work out. That's been one of my questions. I read Trainer Dan's carb loadingplan on the weekends. Have you tried that?
Being a sugar addict, I think just something simple before a WO would be better for me. -Phat

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 11:32
Built- I was glad to read your post about having some fast acting carbs before a work out. That's been one of my questions. I read Trainer Dan's carb loadingplan on the weekends. Have you tried that?
Being a sugar addict, I think just something simple before a WO would be better for me. -Phat

I tried both, and I honestly preferred the pre-lifting TKD approach. But the CKD may be more effective. I personally think TKD is a better way to start, because it doen't freak you out as much, and you find yourself REALLY looking forward to lifting days.

(Good Rat! Here's your sugar. Now go lift!)

;)

corianin
Tue, May-04-04, 13:00
What type of lifting routine do you use? Right now I simply do 12 reps of a failry high weight (for my newbie muscles it's a strain!) and try to squeak out 3-4 sets. I've read that you should do something like 75-85-95% weight for each set? Should you lift for your total body every other day or alternate muscle groups each day? I was doing a whole body circuit M-W-F. Now I alternate
M- Upper body
T- Lower Body
W- Abs
Th - Upper body
F - Lower body
S - Abs

Then I throw in a day or two of cardio, usually on my ab days. I used to do 30-40 minutes of cardio 6 days/week. Now that I'm focusing more on weight training I cut down on the cardio. I will post a list of exercises that I currently do. I need some feedback as to how to improve. Thanks for all the great conversation!!

~ Cori ~

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 13:16
Keep doing what you are doing - it sounds like a good plan. Incorporate squats (NOT Smith machine - use dumbells, working in weight until you can squat an unloaded free bar, which is 45 pounds) and leg press, and dumbell deadlifts if you aren't already. I'll try to post up my routine sometime soon. You are doing a really good plan by the look of it.

You might consider doing volume work on your biggest parts (keep the weight the same as now, work up to 5 sets of 15 - I do this for legs) and higher-intensity work for your smaller parts (I do this for upper) - lift heavier, but do 3 sets of 6-8, or even 5 sets of 5.

Volume doesn't mean "light" - it just means "light, given you are going to do about twice and many reps in total".

Otherwise, you look like you're bang on.

Good job!

- Built

corianin
Tue, May-04-04, 13:22
Alright, then I'll just keep pluckin' away and hopefully in a month or two I'll have some progress pics to show all of you. :) Any suggestions on brand of protein shake mix? I went into GNC to pick some up and had no clue what to buy. Some were $20, some were $45. Other than protein per serving I didn't know what to look for. Sooooo, instead of wasting my money I thought I'd ask all of you first. Any suggestions? Oh, any cheap online sources for protein mix?

~ Cori ~


P.S Do you know of any good bodybuilding sites where I can find out more info about BB? Especially for beginners :)

phatfrog
Tue, May-04-04, 13:23
Here's a suggestion. When I worked w/ a personal trainer, he had me do this and it saw results rather quickly.

Make your Mon and Tues your heavy wt./low rep days and Thur. & Fri. lighter wt./higher rep days.

On heavy days, you use the heaviest you can handle with only around 6 reps. if you can do over 8 without much strain, you need to increase wt. Rest 2 full min. between sets. Do 3 sets. Each set you should be ~ maxed out by 5-6 rep. Last rep- push it out and make yourself do one more rep than you think you can do. :D This kills!! You can't do as many dif. exercises on these days. Hit the major ones- Squats, lg. press, dead lift, bench press, etc.

Light days, drop the wt to where you can do 12-15 reps comfortably. Only rest 30 or so sec. between sets. These days you can get more in.

Mix up the lifts you do from week to week to keep the muscles well worked.

On cardio days, do interval training. ex- after warm up, sprint for one min. and walk for one min, etc. Next week, sprint for 2 min. , walk for 2. Intervals really help burn fat and raise metabolism for up to 48 hours afterward.

Hope this helps. -Phat

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 13:30
Great post Phat - I imagine this works best with the CKD refeeds as well. It's similar to what I did when I did CKD a couple of years ago (and I may do it again. Not a slam, by ANY means!)

I currently do my heaviest workouts the days after my little carb-ups. I do two carb-ups a week: Sunday night and Thursday night. Monday is quad night, and Friday is back and bis. This way I have the most juice for them.

I think with TKD, perhaps alternating heavy and light might work well because you let your body recover a bit.

jagbender
Tue, May-04-04, 13:34
Optimuim nutrition 100% whey. about $30.00 for 5 pounds
Chocolate, Vanilla and Strawberry.
Low carb. no fat.
JAg

pammiejoe6
Tue, May-04-04, 16:18
hey ya'll !!! just wanted to thank you for all the input!! ive been doing atkins for 7 months and have lost 88 pounds on it! i started lifting BFL style just recently and am happy to say i am on week 5 and really getting addicted to the lifting AND cardio days!! im loving these workouts!! i also find a protein shake after the workout to be very energizing and i always eat some protein and a few carbs before lifting too....i havent had a problem with feeling weak or anything and i have been able to increase my weights at a pretty good rate i think! i am by no means ANYWHERE near the great shape that any of you are, but i know in time if i keep it up i will be!! BUILT...you look freakin awesome!! i am really impressed sweety!! keep up the great work! i guess i need to research this TKD stuff huh? hahahaha



well anyway, just wanted to thank you all!! have a great evening!

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 16:23
Wow, thanks Pammiejoe! I must say, I am VERY impressed with YOUR progress!

I know somebody at my gym who did BFL and really liked it. I'm glad it's working for you too.

Sounds like you're well on your way.

TKD isn't that complicated: it's basically just Atkins with some fast pre-lifting carbs on lifting days. Just another variation on a theme. If you're okay with the carbs in BFL, TKD might not be necessary for you. But hey, if you get stalled or want to give it a try, it's an easy thing to do. Easy to back out of if you don't like it, too. Just drop the pre-lifting carbs. I do think CKD is probably more effective, but the long carbups always made me nervous...you know what it's like to worry about stuff like this I'm sure. Totally deadly workouts the first couple of days after carbup though!

Cheers

-Built

phatfrog
Tue, May-04-04, 21:01
i am by no means ANYWHERE near the great shape that any of you are

I got a chuckle from that. I'm definitely not one of the "any of you" right now. Last year I "worked" more at building flab than muscle!! I'm kicking myself now. But if we both stick to it, we can look like Built real soon.

Great Pic, by the way, Built. What definition and a tiny waist, too!! What do you do for back exercises.

Pammie- You are amazing!! 88 pounds- that's my daughter in a heavy coat!
What an accomplishment!! :clap: Keep it up and you will be Miss Universe!!

Off to bed
Phat

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 21:38
I got a chuckle from that. I'm definitely not one of the "any of you" right now. Last year I "worked" more at building flab than muscle!! I'm kicking myself now. But if we both stick to it, we can look like Built real soon.

Great Pic, by the way, Built. What definition and a tiny waist, too!! What do you do for back exercises.

Pammie- You are amazing!! 88 pounds- that's my daughter in a heavy coat!
What an accomplishment!! :clap: Keep it up and you will be Miss Universe!!

Off to bed
Phat

Oh, stop! :blush:

:)

I'm still working on the bottom half, but it's coming along ever so slowly since I increased my leg workouts to do more heavy volume work.

I'll do a better job of this at some point, but here's my current routine.

Roughly, I do a 4 day split:
Monday: quads

3 sets of 10 squats with 25 lbs a side
then 5 sets of 15 leg press, 2 plates a side
then 2 supersets of sissy squats with seated leg extensions

Tuesday: Shoulders, chest and triceps
I do a LOT of rear delt work

Shoulder side raises, 12 pound dumbbells
Arnie presses: 20 lb dumbbells
lying rear lateral shoulder raises (face down on incline bench): drop sets with 8s, 5s, 3s
Face pulls
Bent over rear delt rows with 20 lb dumbbell

Chest: incline flyes with 15 lb dumbbells
incline chest press with 35 lb dumbbells

Triceps: overhead tricep extension, single 45 lb dumbbell - 3 sets of 6 or 8
standing tricep rope extensions - 3 sets of 8 with 30 lbs

Thursday: hammies!

leg press, but with toes off the platform so I press through heels - 3 or 4 sets of 10-12 with 2 plates a side
SLDL - (Stiff leg deadlift) - the bar plus a plate a side, 3 sets of 10
OR
the bar plus 25 a side, 4 sets of 12
Leg curls - three sets
back extensions, one LONG set, squeezing glutes at top of movement

Friday: back and biceps

Seated cable rows, 3 sets of 6 or 8 with 70 lbs
lat pull downs, 3 sets or 6 or 8 with 90 lbs OR assisted chinups, which I've been doing more of lately for pulling the lats out
shrugs - one long set of 10 or 12 with 105 lbs (it's the heaviest ez curl bar we have, and I'm too lazy to load up a bar to do more but it's not hard to go heavy with these)
Dumbbell pullovers (like barbell pullover, but with a single 45 lb dumbbell - looks like a dumbbell lying triceps extension, but with straight arms so the back does the work ) - 3 sets of 8


biceps: seated alternating dumbbell curls: three sets of 6 with 25 lbs a side
incline alternating dumbbell curls: three sets of 6 with 15 lbs a side
reverse bicep cable curls - use the overhead lat pull down bar, close grip, palms up, thumbs out. Grip, sit down, then pull down with biceps, then release slowly and let it back up.

Here's a site with videos for the exercises if you would like to figure out what the heck I'm talking about :http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

Oh, and I try to get out once or twice a week for a bike ride, and I walk a bit. I've decreased the cardio because I'm finding lifting works better for body composition.

Built
Tue, May-04-04, 23:39
Check out the CKD forum
http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
CKD and Tkd are great ways to maintain and gain muscle when losing fat.
Jag
Meant to thank you Jag for the link.

Cheers

corianin
Wed, May-05-04, 10:12
Thanks for the link. I was scratchin' my head at almost all those names. I am just using the cybex machines and have never used free weights. Do you think that machines give you the same intensity of workout that free weights do? We have a weight room at the Y but I have to admit I'm a little intimidated because I'm not sure how to perform all the exercises. I started with machines so I could work on technique and gain muscle without worrying about dropping a weight on myself.
OMG, I started using GNC Pro Performance whey protein yesterday and today after my workouts and I can definitely feel it! I feel pumped up and energized after working out. I'm sore but not nearly as sore as usual. I upped my sets from 2 sets of 10, to 3 sets of 11-12. So far so good. I dropped 2 lbs in the last few days. Not sure if it has anything to do with the increased sets or just that I switched from total body weights every other day to alternating muscle groups throughout the week. Maybe it gives my body more time to heal a smaller portion of muscle. No clue, but if it works stick with it, right?


~ Cori ~

Built
Wed, May-05-04, 10:39
I know - it seems like a different language at first. That's why I included the link - you can look up the names and get little movies that show the movements.

You are progressing through this the right way. Moving from whole body to alternating muscle groups is a VERY good idea once you have conditioned yourself a bit, which is exactly what you have done.

Moving away from the machines is the next step. While good for beginners, they don't hit the stabilizing muscles at all - that's why they can be good for physio - they work the muscle totally in isolation.

You WANT to work the stabilizers, too.

You will notice that it's harder to lift free weights than on machines - for example, if you can push 40 lbs on the shoulder press, don't be surprised if you have to go to two 15-lb dumbbells when you start doing military dumbbell press.

I would also start working on increasing the weight and going to somewhat shorter sets.

A good rule of thumb is to do 3 sets of 8 on most exercises. When you can do this and NOT feel the muscle the next day or two, (or not feel it very much), next time you do it, increase the weight increment and do 3 sets of 6. You will know it's time to increase this again when you can comfortably get through 3 sets of 8 again. Plus it's like a reward - you not only get to feel "cool" for being able to lift the next increment, but you don't have to do as much of it now that it's so heavy.

In terms of making the transition to free weights, do it slowly. Find something you feel comfortable with, something that doesn't seem too weird, like bicep curls or shoulder (military) press, and leave the others the way they are.

BBs won't offer help, because that is seen as rude. But they generally will help if asked - look for someone with a good body, and start by asking him or her how to do ONE of the machine exercises you are trying to replace. If you are lucky enough to have a freakishly large woman at your gym, ask her. Female BBs are notorious form-freaks, and this is exactly what you want. Women are also generally very happy to see another woman trying to get into lifting, and will often be very supportive.

Because you have the machine experience, you will have an idea of how much you can lift as you make the transition. Listen to your body. If you guess too light, you can always increase it the next time you are there. If you guess too heavy, well, we've ALL done that at some time or another... :rolleyes:

I am SO glad you are lifting. Keep it up!

- Built

phatfrog
Wed, May-05-04, 20:16
Hey, Built

I saw your pictures just now. Awesome!!! I tried to post a comment and it said I didn't have permission to. ??? Still learning about this site.

Of course, I just went out w/ a friend and celebrated cinco de mayo and had a few drinks for the first time in weeks. OOPS. But it was fun. Guess I'll have to do a heavy day tomorrow to burn off the extra carbs!! -Phat

Built
Wed, May-05-04, 20:28
Thank you Phat. Dunno why, unless the computer caught you while I was editing??

Anyway, I got this way lifting VERY heavy weights, and I wanted to let the ladies here know that women DON'T get big from lifting something heavier than a 3 lb pink dumbbell. And we don't get lean from endless cardio either. There are a lot of people out there who take steroids and get big, but lie about it. I don't take steroids. Women really can't get very big without them. No matter HOW heavy we lift. And I'm trying!

:)

corianin
Wed, May-05-04, 21:56
How did you start out built? How did you progress to where you are now? Have your goals changed since you started lifting? I've been lifting for 6 weeks now and my goals have already changed! Originally I was just using weight training to gain some muscle and was planning on running a 5k this fall. Now I'm not really too interested in that running business but sure am addicted to lifting! What do you mean by "heavy"? Just what you can push through 6 reps max? Other than protein are there any supplements that are "necessary" for bb's? Sorry for all the questions but thought I'd get them in before I went to bed :) Thanks for all the supportive help. It's been a great way to learn more about bodybuilding!

~ Cori ~

Built
Wed, May-05-04, 22:05
How did you start out built? How did you progress to where you are now? Have your goals changed since you started lifting? I've been lifting for 6 weeks now and my goals have already changed! Originally I was just using weight training to gain some muscle and was planning on running a 5k this fall. Now I'm not really too interested in that running business but sure am addicted to lifting! What do you mean by "heavy"? Just what you can push through 6 reps max? Other than protein are there any supplements that are "necessary" for bb's? Sorry for all the questions but thought I'd get them in before I went to bed :) Thanks for all the supportive help. It's been a great way to learn more about bodybuilding!

~ Cori ~

I'll answer as best I can:
I started at 170 fat and squishy about 3 years ago. Goals have changed - I LOVE having muscles now, so I'm always trying to make more. It's VERY hard to do that after the first year.
I used to run 10k 3x a week. That's how I grew to 170. Screw that! I don't run anymore. Killed my hips and knees, especially as I got so fat. Very different diet then though.
Supps: 15g glutamine spread through the day
6-15g fish oil
lots of protien, but we all get that here!
WATER.

I take other stuff, like vitamin C and coq10 and B vitamins, vit E, cod liver oil. But the fish oil and glutamine are awesome!

Trainerdan takes Branched Chain Amino Acids - I've PMd him on it and will report back.

SO GLAD to hear you're lifting!

Sometimes I take creatine, but usually only when I'm bulking because you really need an insulin spike with creatine. I love creatine though! I love bulking too, but I long for my abs toward the end...

rzathagza
Thu, May-06-04, 00:20
I also lift weights. I believe if you want to lose more weight faster and more efficient than weight lifting has to be something that must be included in a diet. I only do one body part a day and been doing it for about 3 months now and I see results that are great. Chest, Shoulders, Biceps, Tri's, then Back, then I start all over again on the 7th day. It works for me, However ever mans/womens body is different and so my workout may not work for most people.

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 00:25
I totally agree. Furthermore, it helps KEEP it off.

Now, rzathagza (buy a vowel :p ), no leg workouts? You must do some, no? Legs are such a HUGE muscle group - so much fat-burning potential.

doogieb
Thu, May-06-04, 05:50
Sometimes I take creatine, but usually only when I'm bulking because you really need an insulin spike with creatine. I love creatine though! I love bulking too, but I long for my abs toward the end...
Hi Built

Have you had a look at some of the new advanced creatines which don't require an insulin spike, like V12 from SAN (www.sann.net)?

I've not tried any creatine so far - I'm only 2 weeks into my lifting just now, and have uhmmed and ah'd as to whether to start taking it straight away, or to wait until I hit a plateau or what, but that's the one I'm planning to get when I do decide to go for it :)

Is there any harm in starting to take creatine just now rather than waiting till later?

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 07:53
Hi Built

Have you had a look at some of the new advanced creatines which don't require an insulin spike, like V12 from SAN (www.sann.net)?

I've not tried any creatine so far - I'm only 2 weeks into my lifting just now, and have uhmmed and ah'd as to whether to start taking it straight away, or to wait until I hit a plateau or what, but that's the one I'm planning to get when I do decide to go for it :)

Is there any harm in starting to take creatine just now rather than waiting till later?

Yeah, I've heard of it. I'm not convinced. But if you try it and like it, please let me know.

2 weeks in you won't notice a difference. Wait until you've plateaued on your lifting for a while, and you're pushing REALLY hard. Otherwise it'll be just a waste of money - you won't notice a thing, except MAYBE bloat.

And make sure you drink a LOT of water. First time I took it I loaded, and didn't drink enough water. Kidney stones SUCK, that's all I wanna say.

doogieb
Thu, May-06-04, 10:53
Will do.

Today my measured water consumption (that is sitting at my desk at work where I record every cup I drink in the office - this excludes anything I drink before work, in the gym or after work) is 6 litres (1.58 US gallons) so I think I can manage that :)

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 11:25
Good boy.

Realistically, you probably won't get anything out of creatine until at LEAST 6 months from now if you REALLY focus on your lifting. But you'll have to put it in a journal when you try it. I love it when I'm bulking. I REALLY feel the difference in my lifts.

corianin
Thu, May-06-04, 11:40
I bought some creatine but haven't tried it yet. I'm all paranoid about what goes into my body now. LOL, what a 180 degree flip from where I was a few months ago! Oh, I do have a question. Is it common to lose quite a bit of weight when you first start lifting? I've been lifting for over a month now, but I changed my routine around somewhat in the past few weeks. Now I've been droppin' weight fairly quickly. From 188.8 -183.8 in 10 days. I cut down on cardio from 6 days to 2-3 and am lifting 3-4 days/week. Is that common? I keep my protein intake around 100g per day. Always have my pwo shake with a few carbs. I would love to continue on this kinda fat loss trend at least for awhile!


~ Cori ~

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 12:31
This is SUCH happy news. And not unusual at all! Maybe go a TAD higher on the protein now that you are lifting a lot. I go somewhere closer to a gram per pound, maybe go closer to a just under a gram a pound of your target weight - try 125-140g per day so you keep building muscle.
The first year a newbie lifts is magical. It's pretty much the only time in your life when you will DROP fat while BUILDING muscle. Enjoy it!

And don't bother with creatine until you are KILLING yourself in the gym, but CAN'T get past a plateau in your lifting. It works better with a bit more carbs than you can probably afford right now anyway, so keep it, but leave it alone for a while.

:)

corianin
Thu, May-06-04, 15:40
How do you know much protein is being absorbed? If I'm eating 100g is all of that heading to my muscles? Are there drawbacks to eating too much protein? Should I drink a protein shake even on my non weight lifting days? Whey protein is the best absorbed protein source, right? I'll try to aim for 140, but not sure if I can pack that in. Maybe just add in another protein shake each day instead of just one. Your body can only absorb 30-40g per meal correct? Are some proteins better than others? Chicken over beef, tuna over other types of fish? Does cooking change the amount of protein in a piece of meat? Ugh, sorry about all the protein questions, it's just that that issue has been buggin' me for awhile now. I want every stinkin' gram of protein I take to get into those muscles and pump em' up!


~ Cori ~

Chipperoo
Thu, May-06-04, 15:47
Don't know, but I had a blood test recently and seemed to read that I was low on protein. You, know how those test are, you have to have a PHD to understand the results. Anyway, I started taking digestive enzymes anyway, just to make sure I was helping as much as I could. I don't think it can hurt.

corianin
Thu, May-06-04, 15:56
mmm, digestive enzymes...That sounds taste. Dare I ask what type, brand you are using? What made you decide to try those? How does it affect protein uptake by muscles?


~ Cori ~

Chipperoo
Thu, May-06-04, 16:15
There are different kinds and brands. I got some relatively expensive ones at a local health food store and then some cheaper ones at WalMart. I just thought I'd try 'em and see if they made a difference in my muscle growth. Thought maybe I wasn't digesting the protein well enough and couldn't hurt to try, like I said. Do they help, jury's still out, and could be another suppliment that just can't tell if works or not.

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 16:25
I don't worry much about the source of my protein (chiken vs beef, etc).

WRT meal replacement shakes - I wouldn't do the whey shakes too often, because they are absorbed too fast (all chewed up like they are) and could mess with ketosis. Stick to PWO for that.

Maybe just increase proteins a SMIDGE at first - an extra 15-20g and see how it feels. If you start gaining weight again, or stop losing, drop it down. Let your body tell you.

corianin
Thu, May-06-04, 16:41
You're fast built! You must be online quite a bit :) I vary my protein, I don't eat much of the same stuff for any given meal, so it's coming from alot of different sources. I'm all about variety! But I'll try to up it in the next week or so and see how it goes.


~ Cori ~

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 18:26
Don't go crazy with the protein - too much, and you will go out of ketosis. But I suspect you can probably handle a bit more. Watch your ketones/fat loss like a hawk though - if you have trouble, abandon ship. You can always try a little more later on. I think it really depends on how much muscle you have, and how hard you can push yourself with them. If you've got a LOT of muscle, and you push hard at the gym, well, when you lift, it's basically controlled destruction of muscle tissue. You need the protein to rebuild this (hence the PWO whey, which you REALLY need to get in IMMEDIATELY after training when your muscles will suck it all in), and becuse this destruction/rebuilding cycle is so inefficient, it takes a LOT of extra energy for your body to do this.
The more muscle you can "wreck" in this way, the higher your metabolic rate will become after lifting.
This doesn't mean go out and hurt yourself. But once you are lifting hard and heavy, you will KNOW that you REALLY have to push hard to get anywhere.

How heavy is heavy? That is entirely defined within your locus of control. What's heavy for me is a LOT heavier than what was heavy for me 2 years ago. I was working just as hard then, but I've got bigger engines firing now, so they take more fuel to run.

Yeay! More food!

Happiness!

I am entirely motivated by gluttony and vanity.

Hey! My new sig!

corianin
Thu, May-06-04, 19:28
LOL, too funny :) To me, heavy is having my muscles shaking to exert themselves on the last rep. I'm going to have to fine tune that part. I don't think I'm pushing myself hard enough some days. I can definitely feel the burn when I do the leg press machine. I've gotten in about 120g protein today and am feeling fine, we'll see how things go for the rest of the week. How do you check your ketone levels? Ketosticks? I heard those weren't very accurate. Anyhow, I'm off to be auntie... Take care :)


~ Cori ~

phatfrog
Thu, May-06-04, 21:19
Cori,
I keep a bottle of the stix in a drawer next to the "throne." It's fast and easy and it has always worked for me. I've never heard that they weren't accurate. For me, its reenforcing that something is happening even if I can't see fat melting off my thighs! It also helps you gage what you can handle and what you are sensitive to.

I carbed that day before a heavy work out, was out of ketosis that night. Worked out the next day and by that night I was back in. I wouldn't have known it w/out the stix.
-Phat

phatfrog
Thu, May-06-04, 21:24
Also, about the lifting. It really helps to have a partner or someone to spot you when you are pushing yourself. Cuz you can do a few more reps with a little help than you could otherwise. So you get several reps w/ max resistance/effort.

I found that lifters are always willing to spot even if you're not lifting together. Its a great way to get to know others and learn alot, too. A community thing.

good night,
Phat

Built
Thu, May-06-04, 22:14
Also, about the lifting. It really helps to have a partner or someone to spot you when you are pushing yourself. Cuz you can do a few more reps with a little help than you could otherwise. So you get several reps w/ max resistance/effort.

I found that lifters are always willing to spot even if you're not lifting together. Its a great way to get to know others and learn alot, too. A community thing.

good night,
Phat

It's interesting, too, isn't it Phat, the way it brings out competition just a wee bit? Even if I'm lifting with someone who lifts lighter or heavier than I do, I still find I push harder with somebody there. It's silly, but I have to admit it's true.

phatfrog
Fri, May-07-04, 05:40
Yep, and I watch my form more, too.

So, looks like you posted at 1am. Do you get any sleep?

corianin
Fri, May-07-04, 08:39
Well today I'm up 0.5 lbs, but still in ketosis. I haven't dropped out of it as far as I know. But I hit 120g protein yesterday instead of my usual 100g. I took my vitamins late and didn't exercise other than doing some sit ups, crunches and planks. So who knows what caused the gain. Could just be water for all I know. Anyhow, I'm back to the gym today so we'll see how things go. I'm still working through the max contraction book. It's alot of technical reading about how muscles work and why contractions increase muscle mass. It's really interesting.


~ Cori ~

beeshoney1
Fri, May-07-04, 09:27
Hi built

I am female and I have to say that I am VERY impressed by how far you have come since you started lifting. So many questions are flowing through my mind...hope I remember them all?

I still have a lot of fat to lose and I LOVE weight training and think I train pretty hard but I know I can do more. If I increase the weights I use, will I still burn fat AND build muscle? I once had some fool at the gym tell me that I need to lose and focus on "toning" before building muscle so I was not pushing myself to the limit.

Is the protein shake absolutely essential? And what is PWO?

Why do you not recommend the use of the Smith Machine?

This is my first year really training and I want lose and build muscle in the process. Hope you can help

doogieb
Fri, May-07-04, 10:00
beeshoney1 PWO = post-work-out

jagbender
Fri, May-07-04, 10:11
Beeshoney,
Check out the CKD forum
http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
Jag

corianin
Fri, May-07-04, 11:35
Is it low blood sugar that gives you the shakes after working out? Today was teh first day I didn't have protein before my workout. I had a LC cereal and LC milk and that was it about an hour before lifting. I lifted with quite a bit of energy, but when I was done I was shaky and dizzy. After I got home, drank my pwo protein shake and had some veggies I was fine. Was it my morning meal or my workout that causes that? I've never had that kind of reaction before so was just curious if anyone knew anything.

~ Cori ~

P.S Does anyone know how much protein per ounce hamburger has?

LisaS
Fri, May-07-04, 11:41
Why do you not recommend the use of the Smith Machine?


IMO
smith machines force you to be in a specific plane of movement throughout the lift - one that could cause injury for some people - most lifts need to arc, not travel in a straight vertical line.
Plus, you don't use any balance or stabilizing muscles, so the exercise is probably less useful than the same motion with a free weight.
If you are worried about safety, use a power cage and/or a spotter. But get away from the sm*th machine.

Built
Fri, May-07-04, 12:23
Yep, and I watch my form more, too.

So, looks like you posted at 1am. Do you get any sleep?

Yes, that's true too.

I sleep! It was 11PM my time
IMO
smith machines force you to be in a specific plane of movement throughout the lift - one that could cause injury for some people - most lifts need to arc, not travel in a straight vertical line.
Plus, you don't use any balance or stabilizing muscles, so the exercise is probably less useful than the same motion with a free weight.
If you are worried about safety, use a power cage and/or a spotter. But get away from the sm*th machine.
GREAT post Lisa. That's exactly it. I don't actually have one at my gym, but even if I did, I wouldn't use it for squats, that's for sure.

Built
Fri, May-07-04, 12:31
Is it low blood sugar that gives you the shakes after working out? Today was teh first day I didn't have protein before my workout. I had a LC cereal and LC milk and that was it about an hour before lifting. I lifted with quite a bit of energy, but when I was done I was shaky and dizzy. After I got home, drank my pwo protein shake and had some veggies I was fine. Was it my morning meal or my workout that causes that? I've never had that kind of reaction before so was just curious if anyone knew anything.

~ Cori ~

P.S Does anyone know how much protein per ounce hamburger has?
You probably just worked out really hard and didn't have enough food in you.

Check www.fitday.com to look up foods and track macronutrient breakdowns.

Built
Fri, May-07-04, 14:23
Hi built

I am female and I have to say that I am VERY impressed by how far you have come since you started lifting. So many questions are flowing through my mind...hope I remember them all?

I still have a lot of fat to lose and I LOVE weight training and think I train pretty hard but I know I can do more. If I increase the weights I use, will I still burn fat AND build muscle? I once had some fool at the gym tell me that I need to lose and focus on "toning" before building muscle so I was not pushing myself to the limit.

Is the protein shake absolutely essential? And what is PWO?

Why do you not recommend the use of the Smith Machine?

This is my first year really training and I want lose and build muscle in the process. Hope you can help
Hey there bee

The way I understand it, when you go to the gym, you really aren't BUILDING anything - you are actually destroying muscle (catabolic) in a controlled way.
You go home, you rest, you eat protein, and your body "sends in the troops" to rebuild the muscles you wrecked, and build them up a bit more because they obviously need it (the anabolic part).

Women don't have a lot of testosterone. We don't build up very much.

But the repair work takes a LOT of energy.

This is why the rest of your day post-lifting brings up your metabolic rate. The more muscle you wreck, the higher the caloric requirement to do the rebuilding.

Cardio is also catabolic to muscle tissue. You DO burn fat while you do it, but it also burns off muscle. It doesn't stimulate the same kind of repair work to happen afterward as lifting does (beyond this point, there be dragons - I don't know why this is, but I bet somebody here does).
With cardio, you burn more fat WHILE you're doing it, but almost none when it's done.
With lifting, you burn less fat while you're doing it, but continue to burn extra calories for the rest of the day, and even into the next day.
Different energy systems. Cardio is aerobic, resistance exercise is anaerobic. Aerobic exercise will burn through sugar first, then burn fat.
Anaerobic exercise not only burns sugar, it uses it to give your muscles a pump. You actually need it, because your muscles will do a better job of "controlled destruction" with it.
CKD is one way to do this, but it's a bit of a commitment. I did TKD for a long time, and I come back to it again and again.

What is it?

Well, the way I did it was to eat about 40 g of fast carb (read: sugary treat) about half an hour or less before lifting. ONLY ON LIFTING DAYS!!!

NO CARDIO pre lifting, of course - it would only burn off the blood sugar, and you actually WANT it for the lifting.

Do your lifts - you'll have a really good workout. Then do a little cardio afterward to burn off the rest of the blood sugar and you should be back in ketosis by the next day. If not, try fewer carbs.

It might take a bit of fiddling, but I found it bloated me a lot less than CKD. I'm almost wondering if CKD might be better suited to men, and TKD for women, because of the testosterone thing. I don't know enough about hormones yet, I'm afraid.

The other things I liked about TKD:
*less of a commitment, less of a risk of going overboard
*I found I REALLY looked forward to lifting days! It's a nice hit of encouragement to eat a <COUGHdonutCOUGH> sugary treat with NO guilt, and know that not only was I going to get RID of it, I was going to USE it to get more muscular and burn off more fat! (I'd get some funny looks a the gym walking in with it, eating it, doing my situps, then heading straight for the weights though... :blush: ;) )

corianin
Fri, May-07-04, 18:02
Now that's my kinda workout... Donuts then lift weights. What a motivation to keep at lifting. K, little girl... here's your donut, now hit the gym! LOL! I'm soooo addicted to sugar I'm not sure I could eat a donut then workout and leave sugar alone the rest of the day. I'm kinda an all or nothing gal. The frosting can was staring at me last night. Every time I opened the cupboard there it was... I stuck that sucker in the back of the cupboard where it belongs! Cori - 1... sugar - 0 :p I win again! I'm feelin' good today, went and worked my arms today then wrestled with the kids in the lawn. I think I'm gunna be sore tomorrow, but it was fun and worth it.
Is it alright to do sit-ups daily? I like to do a few sets of 25 every day but then was worried about working the muscles too much. But I figured I did leg work outs then walk on the same legs...Not like they get a break. I'm still using the muscles. Annnyhow, I'm off to play auntie tonight. I'll worry about lifting and gettin' all buff-n-stuff tomorrow. Take care all :)


~ Cori ~

corianin
Fri, May-07-04, 18:09
I had 2 hamburgers today 1/2lb each... Fitday says that is 93.57g of protein. Is that right??? That seems awfully high. If that's right I have eaten over 150g of protein today. My pwo shake was 35. I had 2 brats for supper which were 9g each. I'll have to remember that beef is so packed with protein. WOW.

Built
Fri, May-07-04, 18:57
Yuppers, that would be right.

Pay attention to the ratio of fat to protein. I like to get about 60-65% of my cals from fat, 25-30 from protein. In grams, that's roughly equal portions - so if you're eating about 120g of protein and about 120g of fat (give or take 20g on either side), you're doing okay. Lower fat than that, and you might have trouble with ketosis. Bottom line - you lose fat or you don't. We all know that sometimes the scale isn't an entirely accurate guage of how that's going. But I think we get to know our bodies pretty quick on this program - you'll know.

Built
Fri, May-07-04, 19:14
I'm soooo addicted to sugar I'm not sure I could eat a donut then workout and leave sugar alone the rest of the day. I'm kinda an all or nothing gal.

See, that's just it. The carbs-for-lifting strategy really freaked me out too when I started fiddling with it. That's why I think TKD might be the way to ease into it, rather than jumping in with both feet into CKD. I'm not slamming CKD - I did it for a while last summer, and I had some nice gains. But I can't honestly say they were better for me that TKD, and I found TKD easier to manage into my lifestyle. No bloating, either. (CKD bloat goes away in a couple of days. I just don't like it! I think it's a girlie-thing LOL!)

And to assuage your fears (10 points for slipping in the word "assuage". 5 more if I spelled it right...) about setting yourself up for carb cravings with the pre-lifting sugar TKD thing, in my experience, what happens is if I eat 40g of fast carbs and then lift, I have a GREAT workout - really strong, great pump. A half hour of moderate post-wo cardio, and I can actually get back into ketosis that night if I lift hard and heavy enough.

If I eat those 40g of fast carbs and DON'T work out right away, I feel crummy, lethargic, tired - you know the drill - same old same old. Then I deal with cravings.

Sugary treats and lifting go together really well.

Is it alright to do sit-ups daily? I like to do a few sets of 25 every day but then was worried about working the muscles too much.
Sure you can. Since you aren't really trying to build your stomach muscles up as much as just train them IN, you bet. Especially if you don't KILL them every day, and if you vary the routine so you hit different insertions on a rotation. I used to do this in front of the TV. Stretches are good in front of the TV too, because they are boring and it helps you take your time with them (you just can't rush a stretch).

Actually, a GREAT thing to do with abs is to just suck them in and harden them whenever you think of it. Looks better immediately, as an added perk - just remember to breathe LOL!

I do my abs 3-4 times a week: about 2-3 minutes of rotating muscle spasms (no rests), and that's it. But my abs get involved in a lot of the lifting I do as well, so they get hit all the time from all different angles.

If you are ever trying to get a six-pack, though, you actually do them less frequently, and with resistance, just like you would with any other muscle you are trying to build. This is what the fellas do when they are building up the washboard.

corianin
Sat, May-08-04, 11:02
Do you ever have days where you can't eat enough?? I haven't stopped eating since I got outta bed this morning. I've been munching all morning. I usually eat breakfast then forget about food until lunch when I'm fixing something for the kids. BUT not today! I've been eating cauliflower, celery, eggs, sausage... whatever I can get my hands on. (ok, not that extreme, but feels like it). My weight hasn't changed since yesterday and I'm not really that worried about weight gain from eating good food. Well, on to more BB questions!
- Do you take a break from BB at any given point to give your body a refresh period?
- Do you vary intensity and/or duration of your workout, if so why?
- Other than carbs, do you eat different on lift days vs non lift days?
- Any good LC BB'ing sites on the net?
- When did you start lifting and what are your goals?
- What's your favorite lift?

K, I think that's it for now :)

phatfrog
Sat, May-08-04, 14:20
I still have a lot of fat to lose and I LOVE weight training and think I train pretty hard but I know I can do more. If I increase the weights I use, will I still burn fat AND build muscle? I once had some fool at the gym tell me that I need to lose and focus on "toning" before building muscle so I was not pushing myself to the limit.

Bees- Actually, when building muscle, its better for your body to have some body fat. Lifting heavy has a similar effect as interval training because your heart rate goes up during a set then you rest and it goes up again on the next set. That along with the body rebuilding itself, as Built explained, raises the metabolism for up to 48 hr. afterward.

So if you love wt. training, GO FOR IT!! It will sculpt your body and you will loose some fat in the process. Before you know it, your muscles will be uncovered and you can post a picture for us to go crazy over!!!
-Phat

Built
Sat, May-08-04, 17:31
Do you ever have days where you can't eat enough?? I haven't stopped eating since I got outta bed this morning. I've been munching all morning. I usually eat breakfast then forget about food until lunch when I'm fixing something for the kids. BUT not today! I've been eating cauliflower, celery, eggs, sausage... whatever I can get my hands on. (ok, not that extreme, but feels like it). My weight hasn't changed since yesterday and I'm not really that worried about weight gain from eating good food. Well, on to more BB questions!
- Do you take a break from BB at any given point to give your body a refresh period?
- Do you vary intensity and/or duration of your workout, if so why?
- Other than carbs, do you eat different on lift days vs non lift days?
- Any good LC BB'ing sites on the net?
- When did you start lifting and what are your goals?
- What's your favorite lift?

K, I think that's it for now :)

Hey corianin -

Hmmmm - I guess some days I eat more than others - if I haven't slept enough, I feel hungrier. It can vary with your cycle as well, of course.

In the beginning, when I first started low-carbing, I think I didn't have the whole protein-fat thing worked out. Now, I eat something fibrous along with sufficient protein and fat throughout the day in 4-6 meals through the day, so my appetite is actually pretty stable. A salad with half an avocado, some meat, and a heavy dressing and TRUST me, I'm not hungry again for a WHILE. If I try to eat too light, I'll get hungry fast, and I don't like that feeling. I REALLY don't like feeling hungry. I think we can ALL relate to that feeling here on this board. Hungry SUCKS.

I don't feel the need to "take a break" from BB, but I do vary my routine from time to time. I might go heavier with shorter sets, or higher volume with somewhat less weight. I'll do my workouts backwards, or mix different muscle groups. I'll go two heavy days, two light days, or alternate heavy and light workouts. It's not random - I make up a plan and stick to it for a while, but I vary it as I find I'm making less progress.

Other than carbs, I don't really eat differently on non-lifting days. Usually try to keep the fats higher on the non-lifting days maybe, but I LOVE fat, so that's not exactly an effort.

I've been lurking on tripledoubleU c dash k dash d dotcom lately, but other than that, I just Google. A lot :blush:

I started lifting about 2 and a half years ago - fall of 2001, about a month or two after I started Atkins and had dropped the first 15 or so pounds. I was afraid to lift without carbs at first, but I was fine.

Favourite lift? Hmmmm - I really like squats, leg press, sissy squats...all the quad stuff actually. Quad day is my favourite day. It's the hardest workout of the week, but I really like to see how big and HARD the quads get when they're all pumped up and full of blood. I used to avoid working my legs because I didn't want them to get bigger :rolleyes:, but they remained bloated blobs. I really only started to get anywhere when I decided to start working them to DEATH. The muscles DO get bigger, but with squats and deadlifts, they get DEEPER rather than WIDER. My legs are still where I carry what's left of my bodyfat, but it's going, slooooooowly....arrrrgh!

:)

corianin
Sat, May-08-04, 21:10
At least it's going!!!! I really don't care about the size of my legs as long as they don't jiggle when I poke em' ... Tight strong muscles (even big ones) are much more attractive than jiggly fat thighs! Fat bad...muscle good... Fat bad... muscle good. Oh, my new mantra!


~ Cori ~

Built
Sat, May-08-04, 21:30
What's interesting about big leg muscles is that as you build up your quads and your hams, your legs get DEEP rather than WIDE, which gives them the appearance of being slimmer. I work hard to make my quads and hams as big as I possibly can, even though I'm naturally bottom heavy. I want to take metabolic advantage of these big fat burning machines.

Indeed, big and cut is WAY better than big and squishy.

corianin
Sat, May-08-04, 21:36
People are always amazed at how much I weigh. Most people don't realize just how much muscle weighs. You put two people side by side each weighing 140. One has a bf% of 15, another of 25% you are going ot see a huge difference. I try to keep that in mind when I'm lifting so I don't worry about the weight on the scale. It's muscle and not fat... In the end it's going to make me a leaner healthier person.


~ Cori ~

Built
Sat, May-08-04, 21:44
People are always amazed at how much I weigh. Most people don't realize just how much muscle weighs. You put two people side by side each weighing 140. One has a bf% of 15, another of 25% you are going ot see a huge difference. I try to keep that in mind when I'm lifting so I don't worry about the weight on the scale. It's muscle and not fat... In the end it's going to make me a leaner healthier person.


~ Cori ~

Actually, one of the nice things about keto dieting with weightlifting is that it's muscle sparing. When you lose weight by regular calorie-restriction/cardio (ie the usual low-fat plus cardio plan), you lose muscle and fat because of the calorie-restriction, and more muscle and fat because cardio is catabolic to both muscle AND fat.

This actually leaves you WORSE off than you were before - a flabby, skinny person with a lower metabolic rate who has to stay hungry all the time to keep it off. Sound like a familiar experience, anyone (hand goes up).

By keeping more of the muscle while burning off the fat, you IMPROVE your muscle to fat ratio and increase your metabolic rate. This leaves you a leaner body that requires MORE energy to keep going.

This has been my experience. I actually consume MORE calories now than I did when I was fat.

Hence, my signature...

corianin
Sun, May-09-04, 18:10
I think I actually consume more calories now than before, but they're healthy calories. Veggie calories, big bloody meat calories... not those wimpy bagel with fat free cream cheese calories with a skinny turtle... Nooo noo noo, gimme those big juicy calories thanks :)

corianin
Sun, May-09-04, 22:17
Built ~ I was just reading on bodybuilding.com that CKD is the best way to lose fat while maintaining/gaining muscle. That consistently low carb diets will inevitably reduce muscle mass if you are working out hard. Do you have a simplified version of CKD? All this 1.5g per body weight lbs... wtf? None of it makes sense to me. All I got outta the article was yep, ya need to carb up on the weekends and LC during the week and hit the gym hard. Can you explain the diet and how it helps build muscle? I'm trying to figure out if it's the way to go.


~ Cori ~

corianin
Sun, May-09-04, 22:19
MY GOD... you wanna see some motivation to bodybuild? Check this link out!


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/index.php?cat=1


Definitely some very fine bodies. That shows a lot of hard work! WOW!!!



~ Cori ~

Built
Sun, May-09-04, 22:25
Okay - I wanna look like her:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=4542&password=&sort=1&cat=501&page=1
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=4540&password=&sort=1&cat=501&page=1
nikki warner - her legs look GREAT!

mark44
Sun, May-09-04, 22:37
I can't really find any pictures of Atkins type bodybuilders - does anyone have any recommendations.

Frederick
Sun, May-09-04, 22:38
Well, the way I did it was to eat about 40 g of fast carb (read: sugary treat) about half an hour or less before lifting. ONLY ON LIFTING DAYS!!!


Hi there,

So, on lifting days, I can opt to eat, say, 40 grams of pure chocolate before my weight sessions? Would that work?

That is my sort of pre-workout fuel!

Thx,

Frederick

Built
Sun, May-09-04, 22:43
Hi there

Chocolate is actally a little to slow for this because of the cocoa butter. And 40g of chocolate doesn't have 40g of carbs.
Something sweet and lower in fat and protein are what you need here.
A rice crispy square, angel food cake, piece of fruit or some fruit juice would work well. And occasionally, if you can get away with it, something with more fat <coughdonutcough> :blush:

;)

rzathagza
Mon, May-10-04, 01:42
AHHA, I dont want muscle on my LEGS! I use to workout my legs however my pants starting to shrink....? NO really, I am a wrestler, and I tore a few ligiments on my knees....doesnt really help on lifting with my legs. :(

corianin
Mon, May-10-04, 22:13
Some of the women on bodybuilding.com look awesome and very shapely. Others I think look too muscular and lose what I feel is a feminine physique. Their goals obviously aren't mine and I'm not knocking all the hard work they're definitely putting into their bodies. I just want to enhance all the feminine curves and features of my body, not just become as muscular as I can possible be. But here is the type of body I dream about having:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=310&password=&sort=1&cat=505&page=2

To me that's just beautiful and very much a masterpiece. That body = a whole lotta work. Am I ready to suck it up and push it hard to get it? Hell yes!!! Bring it on :yay:

:cheer: ~ Cori ~ :cheer:

Built
Mon, May-10-04, 22:32
Hey there Cori - thank you for that post. She really is beautiful. Balanced and proportioned, strong and lean.

Trust me, you simply CANNOT become anything but lean and enhance your feminine curves by bodybuilding unless you enhance your VERY intense lifting routine with anabolic steroids. The women you see who have the type of body I think you are talking about have done a LOT of work AND have taken chemical enhancement to look that way. It's a choice one makes about what one wants for one's own body. But it CANNOT happen by accident.

The only way to achieve anything even CLOSE to the remarkable physique you posted is to deliberately try to pack on as much muscle as your body will hold.

I swear to God.

I have been deliberately trying to pack on as much muscle as MY body will hold since the fall of 2001. Even with a deliberate "bulk" last fall, what you see is the result of a natural female bodybuilder trying her guts out to become as huge as she possibly can. And I've actually been told by competitive bodybuilders that I am somewhat genetically gifted in my ability to pack on muscle, especially at my age.

It is freaking IMPOSSIBLE to get big, and I'm really TRYING to.

So relax. You really DO want to pack on as much muscle as you possibly can. That is the furnace with which your body will burn fat.

You would be astonished how little muscle this really is once you get there.

:)

- Built

Dormouse
Tue, May-11-04, 04:33
Gotta agree with Built. I've spent the last 7 months training as hard and as heavy as I possibly can and I'm getting a very nice shape but nothing that anyone would call very muscular. Even my Mum, who was conviced I'd turn into a female version of Arnie, commented the other day on how nice my shoulders looked. I'm unlikely to ever get the muscle mass I'd like but I'm d**m well going to try. ;)

This is a girl that impresses me. She's only 4'11". A whole inch shorter than me.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=3089&password=&sort=1&size=medium&cat=501&page=1

legwarmers
Tue, May-11-04, 09:59
holy crap dor i love the bicep shot in your avatar!

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 10:43
Oh...oh...! Don't forget to mention the DELT!

I have shoulder envy :blush:

legwarmers
Tue, May-11-04, 11:14
Oh...oh...! Don't forget to mention the DELT!

I have shoulder envy :blush:

i meant BOTH!!!! :D

RoseTattoo
Tue, May-11-04, 11:27
OK, I am now so confused. Should you eat the high glycemic carbs BEFORE or AFTER weight lifting? Some say one thing, some say the other. :confused: :confused:

Please reply!

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 11:51
OK, I am now so confused. Should you eat the high glycemic carbs BEFORE or AFTER weight lifting? Some say one thing, some say the other. :confused: :confused:

Please reply!

Hey there.

It is a little complicated.

Please keep in mind that this ONLY refers to ANAEROBIC (resistance) exercise - I'll discuss AEROBIC (cardio) excercise in a moment.

Many bodybuilders have high GI carbs BEFORE lifting, and high GI carbs with fast protein (whey) AFTER lifting.

Because you actually NEED some blood sugar to lift well, and because lifting isn't a "fat burning" (aerobic) activity, this is actually a good idea.

Now, where it gets tricky and contentious is the POST lifting meal.

Pretty much EVERYONE agrees that after lifting, it is important to get fast protein into your body IMMEDIATELY. I bring a whey shake with me to the gym, so I can slam it back as soon as I finish my last set.

The issue of whether or not to add high GI carbs to your shake is the complicated bit.

Much of the research that suggests doing this was performed on men. Men have higher testosterone levels whan women, and generally more muscle mass as well.

For men, post-lifting dextrose is often a very good idea because the insulin response actually sets them up for increased testosterone, as I understand it, and this in turn stimulates more muscle growth (which, in turn, increases the metabolic rate, of course!).

In women, well, many of us, myself included, just find that too much of the post-lifting sugar "spills over" into my fat stores - in plain English, if I eat carbs after lifting, I get more muscular, but I also get fat.

Before is good for BOTH men and women. But for some men and for even more women, post workout carbs may be problematic. Your mileage may vary. It has been suggested to me that I experiment with TINY amounts of post-lifting carbs - like, 10-15 grams. I may, at some point. But for now, I just stick to my low-carb whey shake post lifting.

For cardio, because you WANT to burn fat and not just blood sugar, ideally you do it on an empty stomach, and only eat slow protein and fat afterward to stay in ketosis.

Incidentally, this is why you would NEVER want to do any cardio before lifting. After is good, because you've used up your blood sugar and will immediately start burning fat.

Or on a separate day, so you don't have to LIVE in the gym.

Does this help?

- Built

beeshoney1
Tue, May-11-04, 11:51
Hi Guys,

Thanks sooooooo much for answering my questions. I really appreciate it, this site is great!

A question for Dormouse: How long have you been lifting and when did you start your weight loss program?

RoseTattoo
Tue, May-11-04, 12:10
Thanks, built! It helps a lot! And BTW, I do seem to live at the gym. :( Takes an enormous bite out of the day, but it's worth it (I think.) :rolleyes:

Love your avatar. That's Marilyn Monroe, right? :D

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 12:16
Thanks, built! It helps a lot! And BTW, I do seem to live at the gym. :( Takes an enormous bite out of the day, but it's worth it (I think.) :rolleyes:

Love your avatar. That's Marilyn Monroe, right? :D

It is. Dumbbells are a girl's best friend!

DON'T LIFT FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR! Work short and hard, and then GO HOME!

Concentrate on your lifting. It will do more to burn fat for you than your cardio EVER will.

I generally don't like to do cardio on lifting days, but if you MUST, no more than 20 minutes, and only AFTER lifting.

I like to lift 4 times a week - minimum of 3 when my life gets crazy, and I do recreational cardio on the weekend as the weather permits.

RoseTattoo
Tue, May-11-04, 12:22
Thanks, that's good advice, and for the most part, I do follow it. I'm still pretty new to working on my own (had a trainer there for awhile), so it's taking me time to learn the exercises, proper form, etc. Also I'm finding that setting up is very time consuming--the gym is small, I do a lot with steps, decline benches, free weights, etc., and have to keep moving things around to get out of people's way. :D And I know you're right about the lifting vs. the cardio, and am good about alternating. :)

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 13:26
I mostly use freeweights too. They're the best, actually, for most things.

Keep up the good work!

- Built

TXAimee
Tue, May-11-04, 13:59
Hi Built - have a question. What do you do for the back of the shoulder? I seem to be lagging in that area in my workout. Thanks!!!

-Aimee

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 14:08
Oh - the dreaded rear delt.

Couple of things.
Face pulls: stand at the lat pull down pully, but put the rope attachment on it.

Hold the ropes so that the knot is at the outside of your fist (ie near the pinkie finger). If you were to pull your arms apart at this point, it would be like you were gripping a pole overhand - ie palms down, thumbs facing each other.

Pull the ropes open and toward your face.

Another one: do a bent over row, like a back row, but instead of keeping your elbow near your body, stick it out at a right angle. This hits the rear delts.

http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/DeltoidPosterior/DBRowElbowOut.gif

Another one: lie face down on the incline bench, and do side raises. This shows it on a flat bench, but I like it better on the incline bench:
http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/DeltoidPosterior/DBLyingRearLateralRaise.gif

TXAimee
Tue, May-11-04, 14:16
OOOHHHH Built - THANK YOU! I already do rows but, I like that 2nd one. I'll definitely try that one!! :D

One more question - I already do sitting low rows, is it any different that the one armed row???

-aimee

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 14:18
Probably not much. You'll just have to try and see. Oh, and the face pulls - it almost looks like this when you do them:

http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/DeltoidPosterior/CBRowtoNeck.gif

(I LOVE face pulls)

beeshoney1
Tue, May-11-04, 14:30
Hi Guys

This is what my workout schedule looks like, let me know if you recommend any changes

Monday
Upper Body Weight Training
20 Minutes HIIT after

Tuesday
5 minutes on abs
30 min on elliptical
30 min on treadmill

Tuesday Evening
20 minutes Pilates - does wonders for my abs

Wednesday
Lower Body Weight Trianing
20 minutes HIIT

Thursday
5 minutes on abs
30 min on elliptical
30 min on treadmill

Thursday Evening
20 minutes Pilates

Friday
Upper Body Weight Training
20 minutes HIIT

Saturday
50 minutes Pilates
Jump Rope/Jog/Treadmill - whichever one I'm in the mood for

Sunday
Rest.

If I train my upper body twice in one week, I train the lower body twice the following week. I just changed my routine from a schedule of Shoulders/Chest on Monday, Legs on Wednesday and Back and Arms on Friday

I use mostly dumbbells and barbells.

So what do you think of the program I am now following?

TXAimee
Tue, May-11-04, 14:32
Built - Never tried the face pulls, looks promising. Definitely looks like a great move for the back of the shoulders. I like learning something new! Thanx!!! BTW - where are you getting the pictures from?

-aimee

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 14:39
Built - Never tried the face pulls, looks promising. Definitely looks like a great move for the back of the shoulders. I like learning something new! Thanx!!! BTW - where are you getting the pictures from?

-aimee

Good.
The pix come from here: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
(To insert a pic, right click on the image, go to properties, and copy the url to insert between the "image" tags like I've done)

legwarmers
Tue, May-11-04, 14:53
assisted chins also hit the rear delt ;)

TXAimee
Tue, May-11-04, 14:59
Built! That's a great website. It's going to help me out a great deal when changing up my workout!! Thanks a Bunch!!!

-aimee

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 15:03
Hi Guys

This is what my workout schedule looks like, let me know if you recommend any changes

Monday
Upper Body Weight Training
20 Minutes HIIT after

Tuesday
5 minutes on abs
30 min on elliptical
30 min on treadmill

Tuesday Evening
20 minutes Pilates - does wonders for my abs

Wednesday
Lower Body Weight Trianing
20 minutes HIIT

Thursday
5 minutes on abs
30 min on elliptical
30 min on treadmill

Thursday Evening
20 minutes Pilates

Friday
Upper Body Weight Training
20 minutes HIIT

Saturday
50 minutes Pilates
Jump Rope/Jog/Treadmill - whichever one I'm in the mood for

Sunday
Rest.

If I train my upper body twice in one week, I train the lower body twice the following week. I just changed my routine from a schedule of Shoulders/Chest on Monday, Legs on Wednesday and Back and Arms on Friday

I use mostly dumbbells and barbells.

So what do you think of the program I am now following?

My personal suggestion would be to add a second leg day and do upper twice and lower twice a week. Hit your legs VERY hard with higher volume weights than your upper body, which still means HEAVY lifts, but heavy given you are going to do 5 sets of 15. You should feel your legs for DAYS.
Upper, stick to shorter sets – 3 sets of 6-8 reps, again, as heavy as you can given the reps.

I think you are doing too much cardio to get much fat burning – cardio isn’t actually all that great at it. It burns some while you’re doing it, but the fatburning stops once it’s done. You will get an increased metabolic rate if you lift hard and heavy – and since legs are such a large muscle group, the harder you hit them, the better they will work as fat-burning engines for the rest of the day, and even into the next day.

Make sure you are lifting hard (with breaks, of course! This isn’t a circuit!) for ¾ of an hour to an hour for each of your lifting days.

If you can still do 20 mins of HIIT after leg day, you aren’t working them hard enough.

How about Monday and Wednesday do your legs, Tuesday and Friday do upper, keep your Tuesday and Thursday Pilates classes, do HIIT after upper body on Friday, and do another HIIT on Saturday, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach (OR with only a small amount of really fatty protein (ie an egg) so it doesn’t glycolyze) and ditch the Saturday Pilates.

Monday: legs
Tuesday: upper, pilates
Wednesday: legs
Thursday: Pilates
Friday: upper, HIIT
Saturday: am HIIT
Sunday: even HE rested.

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 15:04
assisted chins also hit the rear delt ;)
Oh, yes they do. Lats too, I think.

legwarmers
Tue, May-11-04, 15:19
Oh, yes they do. Lats too, I think.

yes, primarily lats. :)


HIIT should be reserved for non-lifting days OR be separated from workout by at least 8 hours.

imo, if you are going to separate cardio from lifting, you can do brisk cardio in the morning instead and do just as well.

anyway, i ALWAYS recommend brisk/light cardio after 3 lifting sessions for 20 mins plus one hiit session on a non lifting day. that's it.

i agree with built about two upper two lower. just make sure to give that part of the body 72 hrs of rest in between workouts. i suggest low reps at max weight and more sets.

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 15:25
yes, primarily lats. :)


HIIT should be reserved for non-lifting days OR be separated from workout by at least 8 hours.

imo, if you are going to separate cardio from lifting, you can do brisk cardio in the morning instead and do just as well.

anyway, i ALWAYS recommend brisk/light cardio after 3 lifting sessions for 20 mins plus one hiit session on a non lifting day. that's it.

i agree with built about two upper two lower. just make sure to give that part of the body 72 hrs of rest in between workouts. i suggest low reps at max weight and more sets.

Actually, this might be good for legs for a while too, upon rereading. I really like volume work, but my version of volume work is squatting 100 pounds for 10 sets of 10 rather than 135 pounds for 3 sets of 6.

Ya really gotta hit leggies HARD. After all, they can take it. They carry us around all day anyway.

When you get stalled on legs, try a higher volume approach, but still lifting heavy.

They WON'T get huge! I promise!

What WILL happen is they will get DEEP rather than WIDE.

And hard, and lean.

legwarmers
Tue, May-11-04, 15:36
yep!

if you want proof that women don't get huge, check out my legs in my profile. ;)

RoseTattoo
Tue, May-11-04, 16:24
Nice legs, legwarmers! :)

I'm lifting very heavy (for me--I'm a small and old thing, lol) legwise, but am way far behind on the UB. It's going to take forever to get that in shape. :(

Another quick question--how on earth do you stay cool enough in this weather to do a good workout? I live in the northeast US, and it's already blazingly hot and humid here. The gym I go to is air conditioned, but inadequately, and I'm just dripping with sweat by the time I'm halfway through. Is there anything you can do--besides drink lots of water--to stay relatively comfortable during the hour you're working out? Are there tricks, little thingies you can order online, ANYTHING?? I had to give up today before I'd planned to, I was so deluged with sweat.

And Built, I see your point about lifting--and I do lift seriously--but isn't cardio supposed to BE all about fat burning? What would you recommend when someone wants to get bf percentage down? Isn't building muscle a different procedure than burning fat?

TIA!

Built
Tue, May-11-04, 16:39
Nice legs, legwarmers! :)

I'm lifting very heavy (for me--I'm a small and old thing, lol) legwise, but am way far behind on the UB. It's going to take forever to get that in shape. :(

Another quick question--how on earth do you stay cool enough in this weather to do a good workout? I live in the northeast US, and it's already blazingly hot and humid here. The gym I go to is air conditioned, but inadequately, and I'm just dripping with sweat by the time I'm halfway through. Is there anything you can do--besides drink lots of water--to stay relatively comfortable during the hour you're working out? Are there tricks, little thingies you can order online, ANYTHING?? I had to give up today before I'd planned to, I was so deluged with sweat.

And Built, I see your point about lifting--and I do lift seriously--but isn't cardio supposed to BE all about fat burning? What would you recommend when someone wants to get bf percentage down? Isn't building muscle a different procedure than burning fat?

TIA!

Hey Rose

I'm glad to hear you're lifting heavy!

Read my signature. I'm not kidding. Fat loss is made in the kitchen.

Cardio is from the Greek word for HEART. It's for heart health, not fat loss.

When you do cardio, you will burn off some calories - some from blood sugar, some from fat, and some from muscle. This isn't actually all that great from a body-composition point of view.

I'm not saying it's USELESS, but it is overrated. And if you do too much (which IS different from one person to the next), you actually start putting out too much cortisol and dropping your natural testosterone (gals have test, too), and you start collecting belly fat.

I gained 30 pounds in two years running 10k three times a week.

If you've ever seen a fat aerobics instructor, you'll know what I'm saying here.

When you lift, you destroy some muscle. Rebuilding it takes a LOT of energy, so your metabolic rate remains high for a long time afterward while it wastes a bunch of energy on repairs. Furthermore, the extra muscle that gets built is inefficient, and requires more energy to be maintained. So you get a perk TWICE from this activity.

Cardio doesn't do this. In fact, because you catabolize muscle along with the fat, your metabolic rate goes DOWN, not up.

So do SOME cardio. Just don't rely on it for fat loss.

And to stay cool - well, it's quite temperate where I live, but when it's hot, I wear shorts and sleeveless tops that don't billow and collect air.

corianin
Tue, May-11-04, 21:04
Thanks a million for the site Built!!! I'm trying to learn all the free weight lifts that correspond to each muscle group and the animated pictures help a lot with the explanation! Thanks thanks thanks!! It'll save me alot of searching around for exercise techniques :)

~ Cori ~

Dormouse
Wed, May-12-04, 07:40
A question for Dormouse: How long have you been lifting and when did you start your weight loss program?

I started losing weight at the end of June last year. I was initially on a high carb, low fat plan which really didn't suit me at all. Yes I lost weight but I had dreadful cravings and found myself practically binging on things which had never previously been a problem. I did a huge amount of cardio and had no muscle to speak of. Around the end of August last year I tried Atkins and fairly soon after that, inspired by some posts of Built's, I researched CKD's and accidentally discovered weight lifting. I lifted properly in the gym for the first time on the 13th October last year (7 months tomorrow :D ) and I've never looked back. It was the best thing I ever did!

beeshoney1
Wed, May-12-04, 11:13
Thanks you soooo much for your response Built! I really want to increase my lifting to four days a week and you are right I do spend a bit of time in the gym. While I'm losing now, I don't want to be counterproductive. I still have a lot of fat to lose (50lbs) - will this new schedule slow down my weight loss at all?

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 11:21
Thanks you soooo much for your response Built! I really want to increase my lifting to four days a week and you are right I do spend a bit of time in the gym. While I'm losing now, I don't want to be counterproductive. I still have a lot of fat to lose (50lbs) - will this new schedule slow down my weight loss at all?

NO! extra muscle will help you BURN FAT. PLUS, when you whittle down that fat you'll have a firm body underneath! :)

Built
Wed, May-12-04, 11:28
What legwarmers said.

In SPADES!

Trainerdan
Wed, May-12-04, 11:32
I like having you ladies around. :)

Bees, listen to them ... and look at them ... they know what they are talking about here.

beeshoney1
Wed, May-12-04, 11:35
Thanks you guys!!!!

This is the BEST site on the net! You guys are so fantastic and I'm sold on making these changes now! Thanks for paying it forward!

Built
Wed, May-12-04, 14:06
<blows kisses at beeshoney1, plants one on Trainerdan (hey, sorry, but I'm straight and he's lookin' GOOD!)>

;)

fridayeyes
Wed, May-12-04, 14:09
LOL, geez, Built. He'll be impossible to deal with if you keep that up. ;) But yeah, he's eye candy.

Feeling objectified yet, Dan? :D

Trainerdan
Wed, May-12-04, 14:16
I'm single. Bring it on.

Objectified? Not yet. I'll let you know.

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 15:05
...i like being around here trainerdan! :)

ArtyMuffin
Wed, May-12-04, 15:15
When you do cardio, you will burn off some calories - some from blood sugar, some from fat, and some from muscle. This isn't actually all that great from a body-composition point of view.

I'm not saying it's USELESS, but it is overrated. And if you do too much (which IS different from one person to the next), you actually start putting out too much cortisol and dropping your natural testosterone (gals have test, too), and you start collecting belly fat.

I gained 30 pounds in two years running 10k three times a week.

If you've ever seen a fat aerobics instructor, you'll know what I'm saying here.

When you lift, you destroy some muscle. Rebuilding it takes a LOT of energy, so your metabolic rate remains high for a long time afterward while it wastes a bunch of energy on repairs. Furthermore, the extra muscle that gets built is inefficient, and requires more energy to be maintained. So you get a perk TWICE from this activity.

Cardio doesn't do this. In fact, because you catabolize muscle along with the fat, your metabolic rate goes DOWN, not up.

So do SOME cardio. Just don't rely on it for fat loss.



OMG. Built, you are truly an inspirational GODDESS!! :angel: I had no idea that my cardio is why I can't lose that little bit of belly fat, etc. I thought my 30-40 mins of cardio 4x a week was the key to losing those last few lingering pounds before any sort of toned muscle can be seen.

My boyfriend has been trying to get me to lift heavier weights, and I haven't been keeping up with it because my arms get very big (well, to me anyways) after and it freaks me out. (No Arnie arms for me!!) After seeing your incredible physique though, I'm starting to think that that is perhaps not the right way for me to be thinking. My goal is to be thin with toned, lean sexy muscles. First steps are to switch cardio to after I lift weights. I'm now an addict to the darn activity... can't stop it now. Will I still be able to get nice muscles?

I'm just starting to get back into the low carb thing again, I'm hypoglycemic so I am trying to figure out which program is the best for me...

I have a couple questions for you, if you have the time to answer...

I bought Lean Whey, which has only 4.5g of carb per serving and will be consumed directly after working out. Since I had no idea what I was doing in the Newfound Health store, I let the lady tell me which was best... Did I make a wise decision on it? I can supposedly make pancakes and cookies with it too.

Also, what are some good exercises to try to get killer abs? I can't seem to kick the flub off. It starts about half an inch deep at the top, and progresses to 2 inches on the bottom...

And finally... where can I find some trustworthy info on good workout plans? Different ones to try, etc.

Thanks in advance for your help... please accept my apologies for my chatter above... I am a newbie and all :blush:

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 15:27
i'm going to invoke built: abs are made in the kitchen.

when drop your cardio down and add in weights... you'll see a HUGE difference. postworkout cardio should be no longer than 20 mins and brisk, not intense.

i've never heard of that type of protein but there are lots of protein pancake recipes out there, etc.
whey is perfect for immediately postworkout. have another meal 1 hr later. :)

as for ab exercises, hanging leg raises and weight decline crunches will get them strong!

ArtyMuffin
Wed, May-12-04, 15:36
Hi Legwarmers!

Thanks for the tips. I will definately try those ab exercises... I looked em up (http://www.steelfitness.com/BETA/training/manabs/hanginglegraise.htm) and they look quite difficult. Would the captain's chair (http://www.acefitness.org/images/captainschair.jpg) provide similar results?

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 15:41
Hi Legwarmers!

Thanks for the tips. I will definately try those ab exercises... I looked em up (http://www.steelfitness.com/BETA/training/manabs/hanginglegraise.htm) and they look quite difficult. Would the captain's chair (http://www.acefitness.org/images/captainschair.jpg) provide similar results?

try the hanging leg raises but if you find you can't do them yet, use the chair til you can. :)

Dormouse
Wed, May-12-04, 15:43
I can't hang for long enough to do the hanging leg raises so I do the chair ones. I did them for the first time in ages yesterday and today my abs really hurt so I think they work just fine.

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 15:45
I can't hang for long enough to do the hanging leg raises so I do the chair ones. I did them for the first time in ages yesterday and today my abs really hurt so I think they work just fine.

i wish we had the arm straps at my gym... i'm always alternating my grip for each set when i do them. :mad:

ps - have i ever told you how great your arms are?

Dormouse
Wed, May-12-04, 15:48
Did I ever tell you how much I love you? :)

BTW your legs look really cute in that little skirt in your photo.

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 15:51
Did I ever tell you how much I love you? :)

BTW your legs look really cute in that little skirt in your photo.

no... wanna make out? lol

thank you! i took that on a lark before i went out last friday.

fridayeyes
Wed, May-12-04, 15:57
My, is it getting warm in here or is it me? :D You NHE folks have really been heating up the pic boards, too. I want me summa dat! The biceps, I mean... really...

Cheers,

Friday

Dormouse
Wed, May-12-04, 15:59
<smooch>

It looks really sweet. I'm thinking I might get a skirt this summer. My legs are nearly ready for it.

Dormouse
Wed, May-12-04, 15:59
<smooches> for Friday too. ;)

fridayeyes
Wed, May-12-04, 16:01
*Friday swoons!*

Built
Wed, May-12-04, 17:07
OMG. Built, you are truly an inspirational GODDESS!! :angel: I had no idea that my cardio is why I can't lose that little bit of belly fat, etc. I thought my 30-40 mins of cardio 4x a week was the key to losing those last few lingering pounds before any sort of toned muscle can be seen.

My boyfriend has been trying to get me to lift heavier weights, and I haven't been keeping up with it because my arms get very big (well, to me anyways) after and it freaks me out. (No Arnie arms for me!!) After seeing your incredible physique though, I'm starting to think that that is perhaps not the right way for me to be thinking. My goal is to be thin with toned, lean sexy muscles. First steps are to switch cardio to after I lift weights. I'm now an addict to the darn activity... can't stop it now. Will I still be able to get nice muscles?

I'm just starting to get back into the low carb thing again, I'm hypoglycemic so I am trying to figure out which program is the best for me...

I have a couple questions for you, if you have the time to answer...

I bought Lean Whey, which has only 4.5g of carb per serving and will be consumed directly after working out. Since I had no idea what I was doing in the Newfound Health store, I let the lady tell me which was best... Did I make a wise decision on it? I can supposedly make pancakes and cookies with it too.

Also, what are some good exercises to try to get killer abs? I can't seem to kick the flub off. It starts about half an inch deep at the top, and progresses to 2 inches on the bottom...

And finally... where can I find some trustworthy info on good workout plans? Different ones to try, etc.

Thanks in advance for your help... please accept my apologies for my chatter above... I am a newbie and all :blush:

Why THANK you!

Now, don't KILL yourself on the abs - you CANNOT spot reduce. Make 'em strong, and as the fat drops, you will see them.
I buy whatever lowcarb whey is on sale, so I'm sure yours will be fine. :)
Workout plans: Dunno. I just troll around and ask people, and read bodybuilding websites and ask friends. Here's a good site for exercises with movies: http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html (click "Exercise & Muscle Directory" on the left side to look for the little exercise movies)

And don't be afraid to lift as heavy as you can, as you build up to it. You will THINK you are getting HUGE at first, but then, it stops. You just continue to get leaner.

:)

corianin
Wed, May-12-04, 22:20
Yep, you definitely are the bb goddess here Built... All hail to Goddess Built. We're going to build a huge training center with your name on it in big shiny letters :D I get a smooch now ?



~ Cori ~

corianin
Wed, May-12-04, 22:22
I'm not necessarily trying to spot reduce but tone and define my abs. Weak unworked ab muscles are going to push forward instead of laying flat like they should when they're healthy and strong. That's my problem. I call it the SAS - smooshy ab syndrome. I've had 3 pregnancies in 4 years and noooo exercise what so ever. Yeah, my poor little abs!!! Now they're gunna get beat up some more, but this time it's for a good cause :) What the heck are chair leg lifts? Is that where you're sittin' on a chair with a two year old on your ankles giving them rides up and down? If so I've got that one nailed! Any other ab work outs that incorporate a 2 yr old? I've got a 40lb 4 yr old. Sometimes I pick her up just to realize how much weight I've lost in the past 4 months. They love sitting on the couch while I do sit ups... I poke their toes each time I come up. I'm not sure who giggles more :) Kids are the best workout I think!!! I don't need to go to the gym, I've got a 2 yr old. Speaking of which, I'm off to bed...those little guys will be up early!


~ Cori ~

legwarmers
Wed, May-12-04, 22:31
I'm not necessarily trying to spot reduce but tone and define my abs. Weak unworked ab muscles are going to push forward instead of laying flat like they should when they're healthy and strong.

definition occurs when you drop the fat off to reveal the muscle underneath... hence diet is the key :)

Built
Wed, May-12-04, 22:37
http://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/flowers.gifhttp://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/love2.gifhttp://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/kisscheek.gif at Cori.

bbgoddess! Y'all are gonna give me a big head!

I like it http://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/blinkeye.gif

I hear you on the abs. I don't mean you shouldn't work them - you should, and regularly. But you don't need to do billions of crunches. Do ab work that you can really feel for a few minutes every workout. That's what I do - and I do 'em first, while I still have the juice to really concentrate on them.

As the fat loss continues, they will be ready to look good when you can see 'em.

:)

Dormouse
Thu, May-13-04, 06:06
What the heck are chair leg lifts? Is that where you're sittin' on a chair with a two year old on your ankles giving them rides up and down? If so I've got that one nailed! Any other ab work outs that incorporate a 2 yr old? I've got a 40lb 4 yr old. Sometimes I pick her up just to realize how much weight I've lost in the past 4 months.

LOL, those kind of chair lift are great exercise. Give them piggy back rides; do squats and calf raises while you're giving them piggy back rides; pick them up and put them down a few times; lie on the floor and bench press them; do pressups and once you're really good get the little one to sit on your back. Kids are quite versatile as weights. :D

Well done on 'losing' a small child! I've now lost as much as my skinny 7 year old. I keep picking him up just to see how much it is.

Trainerdan
Thu, May-13-04, 06:17
LOL ... I used to curl my little sister as alternating db curls. She's 17 now, and I am afraid my strength hasn't stayed in line with her growth. :p ... I could EZ curl her, but that wouldn't be right ...

ArtyMuffin
Thu, May-13-04, 09:53
Thanks a lot for the feedback. I start the Induction phase of Atkin's on Monday... just to get my body kicked into burning the fat fuel... and then after that I'd like to try this NHE diet... I don't like the fact I have to buy expensive vitamins on Atkin's. Seems kinda shady to me. Also, I don't have that much weight to lose, its more just those lingering flabby fat deposits I want to get rid of. Since I'm building muscle, I probably won't lose a lot of weight.. it's all about the inches though!!!!

I tried the chair yesterday. Oww. It really hurt!!! I like the exercise ball a lot too... And there is this new machine at the gym, and it hurts even more than the captain's chair!!! You lie down on it, and grab handles above your head and hook your feet around pads at the bottom. You have to pull your legs and arms upwards.... it hurt like hell! I have no idea what its called though. I did 5 and I was done. :( However..... no pain, no gain!!!

I can't wait to until I can post some gallery results in a month or so!!! Maybe then I can get a few kisses from you sexy ladies???? :lol:

liftnlady
Thu, May-13-04, 10:21
good luck arty...NHE is the bomb and Built and LW are great resources.

corianin
Thu, May-13-04, 12:51
WOO WOO!!! :clap: *does a little booty shakin' dance*

*clears her throat and collects herself* k, now back to our regularly scheduled program...


I don't usually do my ab work during my regular workout, usually sometime later that day. It's been rainy out today so my plans on whipping out the ole' rollerblades has been foiled again. I see what you mean about your legs getting deeper but seeming smaller. My thighs haven't lost that many inches but they seem smaller on the front. My jeans are definitely looser in the thighs where they used to be tight. So something must be changing. I've lost 2 inches in my calves, now you can start to see those nice lookin' muscles under there. One more reason to get a shorter skirt and higher heels ;)


~ Cori ~

liftnlady
Thu, May-13-04, 13:02
good job..."pat on back for you !!

Dormouse
Fri, May-14-04, 03:05
That's really great Cori. It's so good when that starts happening. Makes it all worthwhile.

corianin
Fri, May-14-04, 22:14
I ate some fast carbs before working out today. About 20g of just about pure sugar. (strawberry cheesecake ice cream) and I really felt energized at the gym. I pushed harder through my sets. I still can't get through two sets without going to failure. My muscle will absolutely not lift the weight. No matter how hard I push. I'm not too worried about doing 3-4 sets per exercise. Getting through one set of 12 and struggling through the second to me feels like a good workout. Then I walked at a 4.2 on the treadmill for 20 minutes. Wanted to make sure all those nasty carbs were used up. I'm still feeling energized and up beat tonight after a full shift at work. It's a little scary to scoop ice cream into your mouth right before lifting, psychologically it just feels wrong. LOL, I've gotta get over my fear of sugar! Anyhow, 20g worked just fine for me. I don't feel like I lift super heavy. I push myself hard to failure and I'm sweating by the time my circuit is over. I drink my whey protein with 8 oz of 2% milk that has 12carbs in it. Doesn't the carbs help with protein uptake? With the absence of fat or something like that. I don't know, I'm sleepy... Talk to you all tomorrow!!


~ Cori ~

Built
Fri, May-14-04, 22:30
Hey - good girl for being so brave!

Now - your sets. I think I see your problem. Your sets are too long.

Drop them down to sets of 6-8. When you can do three sets of 8 and not really feel it the next day, it's time to increase your weight. The reward for doing this is that you get to do shorter sets - start with 3 sets of 5 or 6, then work your way back up to three sets of 8.

With low carb, you don't have a lot of glygogen for long sets, but you can still push a heavier weight if you go a little shorter. You can even start fiddling with 4 or 5 sets of 5 instead of 3 sets of 8 if it helps you crank out your reps (5 sets of 5 = 25 reps. 3 sets of 8 = 24 reps. Almost the same)

Good job!

And it's not wrong - we've just been socialized to think of dessert as the reward.

Dessert is the fuel. Having a great workout is the reward.

And a note about ice-cream: it's actually a little slow, carb-wise. Fiddle with higher GI carbs - something sweeter, with less fat. Sorbet, for example.

Welcome to the dark side!http://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/evill.gif

liftnlady
Sat, May-15-04, 09:53
Welcome to the dark side!http://www.kapcologic.com/emoticon/evill.gif


LOL !! The bodies that Built built !!

jbird
Sat, May-15-04, 14:10
Ok I read to post 95 and didn't see anything about this and since my kids are getting ready to wake up from nap I'll just go ahead and post my question. Forgive me if it was addressed after post #95 :).

Anyway here goes:

I can only workout at home due to the fact I have three children ages 1,2 and 3, hubby works a lot also, so going to a gym and factoring in travel and needing a babysitter etc just wouldn't work. I workout an hour a day 6 days a week currently. I have been pyramiding for a few years with doing The FIRM on non weights days. I'm up to (yes, I know its not much, but still took me awhile to get here) 10's, 12's and 15's lb weights reps of 12-10-8-10-12(doing joyce vedral workouts - joycevedral.com). I'm at a point now where I know I need to do something more to make any more improvements on my body (which after 3 kids in 3 years you can imagine my plight...eeek). Question is, it possible to do this at home???? I have already have a bench that inclines, I'd assume that I'd have to get some heavier weights first and foremost but beyond that is it a possibility to get the results with a home workout?

Thanks
Jenny

liftnlady
Sat, May-15-04, 15:18
Jenny if you want to workout at home it can be done, check out some of Cathe Friedrichs videos on strength training. Her Slow and heavy series is great. You can read about them on cathe.com, I would buy them on ebay however and save some dough. She is one of the best when it comes to working out with the weights at home. She also advocates using the Troy lite system for barbells, it is smaller for home use. I believe you can get online for about 49.99, and that goes to 50lbs.

Hope this helps

corianin
Sat, May-15-04, 18:26
Thank god!!! Another mom with kids close together. I've had three pregnancies in 4 years. Not as closely as yours but I still understand the havok pregnancy racks on your body. Permanent stretch marks and saggy tummy. UGH! Anyone who said that's a blessed event never dealt with the aftermath! Now, to answer your question :) I'm not an expert on home training. I've got about 2 workout tapes but I would suggest getting some good quailty weights and searching out some free weight exercises that target all the major groups. There are tons of upper body free weight exercises. Ever thought about a bowflex, they're spendy I admit, but my dad has one and he says he really likes it. How much are free weight sets for your home? Do you have the room for it? Ebay always has tons of really good exercise equipment and videos. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Once you find something that works you'll really fly. At your weight I'm sure you look awesome and don't have far to go to look even better!!!


- Cori -

corianin
Mon, May-17-04, 10:56
Ok, I thought I'd post my workout routine. I changed my reps/sets around so I'm lifting heavier. It's been about an hour since my workout and I'm still a little wobbly. Not the greatest feeling in the world but at least I know I'm getting a dang good workout! All these exercises were done on the cybex machines.

Leg Press - (before) 225 - 12x2 (now) 255 - 5x3
Leg Extension - (before) 90 - 12x2 (now) 125 - 6x3
Leg Curls - (bfr) 90 - 12x2 (now) 110 - 6x2
Rotary Calf - (bfr) 250 - 12x2 (now) 270- 7x3
Hip Adduction - (bfr) 90 - 12x2 (now) 110 - 5x3
Hip Abduction - (bfr) 90 - 12x2 (now) 110 - 7x3
Ab Crunches - (bfr) 55 - 12x2 (now) 65 - 7x3
Back Extension - (bfr) 160 - 12x2 (now) 190 - 6x3
Arm Curl - (bfr) 55 - 12x2 (now) 65 - 6x3
Arm Extension - (bfr) 55 - 12x2 (now) 70 - 7x3
Overhead Press -(bfr) 50 - 12x2 (now) 60 - 9x2
Row - (bfr) 90 - 12x2 (now) 110 - 7x3
Rear Delt (bfr) 25 - 12x2 (now) 35 - 7x3
Lat Pull Down (bfr) 120 - 12x2 (now) 135 - 8x3
Chest Press (bfr) 60 - 12x2 (now)75 - 6x2
Adv. Press (bfr) 40 - 12x2 (now) 55 - 6x3

Alright, that's it.... That was my first time trying 3 sets per exercise so some of the weights need to be tweaked a little but otherwise I felt good. I did a whole body workout today so I could figure out where each muscle group was at. I was dripping sweat by the time I was done. Definitely a good cardio workout. I had a carb day yesterday so I thought I'd treadmill for awhile after my workout. Umm, that was a definite no go... I just wanted to make sure I could walk my butt outta the room. LOL! So I think it was a good workout, felt much harder than before, my last rep I held it as long as I could in the contracted position until my muscles gave up. Good deep conditioning :)


~ Cori ~

liftnlady
Mon, May-17-04, 11:05
that looks good interms of the weights used and the reps...how long did that take you ??

My only comment is that is alot of sets to be doing. You may want to split upper body and lower body workouts and alternate them, 1 week 2 uppers 1 lower, the next week, 2 lowers 1 upper.

Built...your thoughts

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 11:17
that looks good interms of the weights used and the reps...how long did that take you ??

My only comment is that is alot of sets to be doing. You may want to split upper body and lower body workouts and alternate them, 1 week 2 uppers 1 lower, the next week, 2 lowers 1 upper.

Built...your thoughts

I agree - glad to see the reps down and the weight up, and you were wobbly afterward, so it SOUNDS like you got a decent workout in LOL!

I also agree with liftnlady about splitting it up - maybe upper and lower, alternating workouts. You can concentrate more on your parts, and maybe not feel so "wobbly" after you train. Makes it more managable to get in a little post-lifting cardio if you're trying for that, too.

And as you start feeling brave, gradually work your way into free weights. Have a look here and see if you can replace one or two of your movements with a free-weight equivalent. http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html

Maybe introduce one new replacement a week until you wean yourself off most of the machines (not all - you'll always need SOME machines, like leg curl, but for biceps, shoulders, chest, quads, hams - nothing like dumbbell curls, arnie press, bench, squats, deadlifts)
And my guess is you'll be FEELING this workout for a while.

Don't be afraid to switch it up from time to time and do the occasional higher-volume day. Or do your workout "backward", or do your worst part FIRST when you're all juiced up.

Good job. Glad you tried this.

- Built

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 11:24
Question: Anyone wanna comment on the relative merits of pyramids vs. three straight, short (8 reps) sets to failure?

Cheers,

Friday

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 11:27
Friday,

I've never done it. I do a lot of DROP sets, but not pyramids.

Bump for Trainerdan?

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 11:29
*puts on newbie hat for a moment* What's a drop set?

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 11:30
Lift a weight to failure, then drop it and pick up a lighter one, do it to failure, then drop it and pick up the lightest one and totally burn out the muscle.
I do them for a lot of my rear-delt stuff.

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 11:32
Ahh, bingo. Like depletion. *barf* lol

jbird
Mon, May-17-04, 11:43
Built - did you have any comments on whether I can do this at home? My orginal post is a few back.

Thanks
Jenny

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 11:50
*sound of wheels turning and gears grinding* So if it's like depletion, this means I could selectively deplete certain muscle groups just before that bi-weekly carb meal..... Yes?

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 11:52
Built - did you have any comments on whether I can do this at home? My orginal post is a few back.

Thanks
Jenny

Oh - sorry. Liftnlady and corianin answered far better than I could have. I just use basically a community centre, but I would LOVE to train at home. We just don't have the space.

Good luck with your goals - post up what you discover you can do at home so the others can get ideas.

- Built

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 11:53
*sound of wheels turning and gears grinding* So if it's like depletion, this means I could selectively deplete certain muscle groups just before that bi-weekly carb meal..... Yes?

I don't know. Maybe. TRAINER DAN - BUUUMMMP!

jbird
Mon, May-17-04, 12:06
Thanks everyone for your comments on workin' out at home.

Built - You really inpire me. I just feel though that I workout so much now and dont' look nearly as good as you and I think maybe I'm just destined to be sorta chunky lookin' even if I do start weight lifting more. And the other thing is, giving up Cardio is really weird feeling to me. Are you sure you don't have to have that (even if you still have some fat hangin' on).

Liftinlady - I'm currently bidding (EBAY) on the Cathe workouts you mentioned. If I don't win I'll just bite the bullet and buy them on her site.

Corianin - And I'm getting the bowflex out of storage...don't really have the space for it but I'm considering setting it up in the barn, it will be excruciatingly hot out there but maybe if I do it in the early morn it wouldn't be so bad.

I'm going to try and concentrate on heavier free weights then I currently use though and see how that goes. My only thing though is I'm already strugglin' to pyramid my 10's, 12's and 15's. I hope the Cathe workouts will help me up the weights.

jenny

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 12:33
Thanks everyone for your comments on workin' out at home.

Built - You really inpire me. I just feel though that I workout so much now and dont' look nearly as good as you and I think maybe I'm just destined to be sorta chunky lookin' even if I do start weight lifting more. And the other thing is, giving up Cardio is really weird feeling to me. Are you sure you don't have to have that (even if you still have some fat hangin' on).
jenny

Yanno, I still do some cardio, and I intend to get back into doing some HIIT later this summer. I think SOME is beneficial. I just don't rely on it for weigh loss, beyond maybe a few percentage points. That will come from your diet and your lifting.

And THANK you.

Regarding chunkiness - you will note the conspicuous absence of leg pix....

;)

Trainerdan
Mon, May-17-04, 13:57
... and front double biceps shots ... since everyone is in the mood to make requests. :P

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:10
... and front double biceps shots ... since everyone is in the mood to make requests. :P

I can do those!

I'll get hubby to take some snaps.

:)

liftnlady
Mon, May-17-04, 14:13
***waits in anticipation****

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:15
***waits in anticipation****
Well, for goodness sakes, EAT something in the meanwhile. Probably won't happen until the weekend.

:)

liftnlady
Mon, May-17-04, 14:19
well I eating my lovely chicken salad with peanut butter dressing as we speak...so..ok if I must.

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:20
Oh! That sounds DIVINE.

Yes, lowcarbing is SUCH Hell...

I just ate avocado with chunky blue cheese dressing, and chicken with butter smeared on it.

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 14:24
Breakfast - cottage cheese/coconut milk pudding
Lunch - LC fish tacos

I could list the protein shake, but it's boring. Yes, *wrist to forehead* this life is SO hard.

Cheers,

Friday

liftnlady
Mon, May-17-04, 14:24
oh yours reminds me of lunch yesterday...I forgot the joys of Cobb Salad...blue cheese, bacon, egg and chicken...can eating get any better !!

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:27
Maybe that's why we low-carbers get so much slack - finally, a diet for gluttons. Didn't y'all know we aren't SUPPOSED to enjoy eating? I think we're just supposed to lie back and think of England or something (sorry Dor - no offense intended. When I lie back and think of England, I think of your double Gloucester cheese)

liftnlady
Mon, May-17-04, 14:33
well I gotta say for the first time nmy life I am not cravings carbs, i.e.bread, bagels, donuts etc, I can walk right by them and not think about it. I think it is because of these 2 meal hi-gly carb loads...by the time I get done stuffing myself with this type of food I am so done with it cause the taste buds are satisfied...and then back to the yummy fats, and just when I feel like I might be craving some cereal or bagel...it is carb load day again. Friggin great I tell ya !, expecially with only a 1lb weight gain that is gone within 24 hours.

And a side note, I am eating more salad now that I eat this way than when I followed a so called "clean " diet, cause it taste better now !!

corianin
Mon, May-17-04, 14:36
I usually do switch up my upper and lower body days. But I am strapped for time this week so I just crammed it all in on one day so I could get it in. The entire body workout took me about 45 minutes. I had to wait for a few machines and things like that so it wasn't working out solid for 45 minutes. Mondays are always the busiest days of the week. I didn't gain an ounce from the lack of willpower day yesterday but my waist is bloated up 2 inches, even my calves are up an inch. I wasn't impressed to say the least! Anyhow, I know I'm back on the straight and narrow now and ready to get down to work.

My only problem with free weights is that I don't have a spotter or anyone to work out with. How safe is that? I can just see me stuck under a bar turning blue. I think that flies and things like that will be fine, but I'm not getting under alot of weight then can't get out without help. Any suggestions to using free weights without help?


~ Cori ~

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:37
It's remarkable, isn't it? I eat more vegetables than most vegetarians I know.

Sorry folks, for the threadjack. We're wandering...

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 14:51
Legwarmers just gave me a link to pyramiding:
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/joe16.htm

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 14:53
BFL also does half-pyramids with a twist, or whatever you call that switch at the top. ;) BodyRx does three short sets to failure. I liked BodyRX better, personally, but have seen a few say that while BodyRx will add strength, pyramids are better for adding mass. ???

legwarmers
Mon, May-17-04, 15:14
corianin... use db's whenever possible. i work out alone all the time and when things get too heavy then i can just drop them... plus then you don't end up with one arm overcompensating.

fridayeyes
Mon, May-17-04, 15:30
Hey, Legs? If it's a fair question, how was the basic NHE plan tweaked for you to make it into a LC bulk?

Thanks!

Friday

legwarmers
Mon, May-17-04, 16:01
Hey, Legs? If it's a fair question, how was the basic NHE plan tweaked for you to make it into a LC bulk?

Thanks!

Friday

i have a really good friend who will tweak things... including my original cutting diet on NHE for me and the way i like to eat... so when everyone gets their NHE book they'll probably see where he made changes for me.

with that in mind, my NHE bulk looks like this:

1 carb up a week (only one because i purposely allow some cheating on fri/sat for social life reasons). when i carb up i take 1Tbsp of apple cider vinegar mixed with 1 Tbsp lemon juice and 1 Tbsp honey before each carb meal. carb up is the same as before.

my ratios are around 60-35-5 with less than 30g carbs daily... and i'm at about 2600 cals daily at the moment... when i feel i need to i will up to 2800. just started the bulk yesterday. oh, and i will be supping with blackstarlabs GO pre workout and SWOLE postworkout plus my mm/evopro shake w/ALA.

that's about all that is different. :cool:

RoseTattoo
Mon, May-17-04, 16:40
Corianin, does your gym have a Smith device? Much safer than lifting barbells by yourself.

But I do agree about the dumbbells.

Built
Mon, May-17-04, 16:48
A word about Smith machines -

Good for some things, but lousy for squats. Stick to free barbells for those and save your knees.

Dormouse
Tue, May-18-04, 11:04
When I lie back and think of England, I think of your double Gloucester cheese)

Now I've got a REALLY weird image in my head!!! ;)

I hear you on enjoying food though. I usually do it 6 tmes a day (eat that is! ;) ) which is a lot of time wasted if I'm not enjoying it!

Built
Tue, May-18-04, 11:11
Now I've got a REALLY weird image in my head!!! ;)

You think YOU do! I can't even BRING myself to tell Hubby!

;)

liftnlady
Tue, May-18-04, 11:38
BTW Dor, nice Bi in that pic

corianin
Tue, May-18-04, 13:01
Umm, no clue about the smith machines. I'll have to check. I've ventured into the weight room twice. Once was just to look around, another time was to spot a friend of mine while she did some bench presses. I've gotta eat more. I've only been getting in 3 meals a day the past few days. Too much work and not enough eating!!! I agree that we really shouldn't enjoy food this much when we're "dieting". I am absolutely in love with grilled cauliflower drowned in butter. It's absolutely wonderful :)



~ Cori ~

Dormouse
Tue, May-18-04, 13:57
BTW Dor, nice Bi in that pic

Aw thanks hun! I'm quietly proud. :)

corianin
Tue, May-25-04, 15:39
So far things are going good. Hubby and I were wrestling the other day and he was trying to pry me off a door jamb (don't ask) and I told him to use all his force and he said he was. LOL, I guess that means I'm stronger than he is now :) I did my upper body today and then went swimming for 20 minutes. That really kicked my butt! But what a total body workout. Even my abs are sore. I've vowed to ride my bike to and from work for the rest of the summer rain or shine. So I'll cut down on cardio in the gym and do more outdoor stuff. It's much easier to exercise when it's nice outside than in a stuffy gym surrounded by a bunch of sweaty people. Talk to you all later, I'm off to play outside :D


~ Cori ~

RoseTattoo
Tue, May-25-04, 17:42
You are doing fantastically, Cori! :cheer:

Built
Tue, May-25-04, 17:44
Cori - that's so FUN, isn't it?

And yes, cardio outside is really where it's at. Especially when it's so nice outside. It DOES feel like playing.

Glad you're having fun :)

- Built

legwarmers
Wed, May-26-04, 01:43
So true! Woman don't get a body-builder fysique from strength training. They will start look like the models in the commercials though ;) !

my favourite example, but bear in mind she's lean for the competition:

http://www.margaretdiubaldo.com/images/P5038277.jpg