Limiting Milk?

[hey_Neener]

I have two boys, 9 and 11, who are going on a LC diet as of the first day of school. My nine yo is average height and overly round at 110#. My 11 yo is going thru a growth spurt and has really slimmed down but has some torso fat.
My question is how much to limit milk for growing bones? I am modifying Atkins for them and figured using 20 carbs like induction, but also allowing milk with meals and other calcium from spinach and the like. At 12 grams per serving-that would put them at 36+20=56 grams.
Has anyone had any luck with doing something similar for their kids? Do you think that would limit carbs too much for growing boys?

[liz175]

Rather than just improvising with such young children and risking harming their health, perhaps you should do some research and reading. There is a Sugar Busters for Kids book and I think there is also a Carbohydrates Addicts book aimed at parents of younger children. If I were going to put kids on a lowcarb diet, I would read these books.

I always debate how to answer questions by parents who want to put their kids on diets. My parents put me on many diets as I was growing up and the end results was that I developed eating disorders and became a fat adult. I strongly recommend against putting pre-adolescents and adolescents on diets. You write yourself that your 11-year-old is slimming down as he grows. Your 9-year-old may well do the same thing.

Both my kids put on weight in the pre-adolescent years and both slimmed down as they went through their growth spurt (my son is 6'2" and 150 pounds and my daughter is 5'6" and 120 pounds). My son stayed at 150 pounds from 5'6" to 6'2". I never discussed dieting with them, although I did discuss healthy eating. Neither has developed an eating disorder.

If kids ask their parents for help with losing weight, I think the parents should help. Based on my personal experience (both myself growing up and my kids), I think that parents should be very hesitant about imposing a diet on their kids. Adolescents love to rebel and putting them on a diet gives them a wonderful opportunity to do so.

[hey_Neener]

I have done my reading, and I am not imposing my diet on my kids. They've seen their doctor. They have seen my results, and are not happy fat. My youngest is quite heavy, tired of being teased and asked for help with his weight. My oldest has already adopted many of my habits on his own. My question was about milk.

[LadyBelle]

There are a ton of veggies that contain calcium naturally. Since they are kids you should probably also start them on OWL more then induction and include fruits and nuts. Check for calcium counts on those. Get whole milk unsweetened yogurt. The whole milk tastes great and has a ton of good bacterias. Mix it with some berries, or I'mm mix mine with a scoop of protien shake mix for a mouse or pussing like treat.

It would also be a good idea to make sure the whole family is drinking enough water and supplimenting calcium/magnesium/pottasium and a good multi vitamin. All childrens vitamins I've seen are mostly sugar. Ask your pediatricion for a non sugar perscription one. Also get the proper doses of other suppliments for thier age and weights from the doctor.

In some countries milk is only for infants. Drinking it after that, and animal milk, is considered disgusting.

High Calcium Foods
200g tub regular fruit yoghurt (358mg)
35g cheddar cheese (275mg)

Medium Calcium Foods
100g canned salmon (185mg with bones)
100g canned mackerel (180mg)
50g canned sardines or 2 small herrings (150mg)
2 - 3 scoops of ice cream (135mg) ( you can get LC icecream LeCarb)

Moderate Calcium Foods
35g fetta cheese (124mg)
1 medium sized egg (120mg)
1 tablespoon of Parmesan cheese (110mg)
1 dozen oysters or scallops (105mg)
½ cup of stewed rhubarb (100mg)
1 cup baked beans (100mg) (get black soy beans in can, very LC)
½ cup of spinach or silverbeet (95mg)


Meat/Protein Group
3 oz. sardines with bones
2 oz. tofu


The following foods are fair to good sources of calcium.

Vegetable Group
1/2 cup broccoli 47 mg.
1/2 cup cooked kale 90 mg.
1/2 cup cooked spinach 123 mg.
1/2 cup turnip greens 125 mg.

Beans and Nuts
1/2 cup garbanzo beans 38 mg.
1/2 cup cooked soybeans 130 mg. (green)
1/2 cup cooked soybeans 86 mg.
1/2 cup kidney beans 35 mg. (cooked)
1/3 cup almonds 126 mg. (dry roasted-whole)
9 brazil nuts 54 mg.

Fruit Group
1 orange 52 mg.

Soy Milks (look for unsweetened, or even better soy slender. Soy slender tastes like regular milk, but is splenda sweetened and has 5 carb with 4 fiber for 1 net carb.)

[hey_Neener]

Thank-you LadyBelle! Your post was very helpful. I do not have the kids on strict induction. I have modified my Atkins a bit for them-and figure its a bit like OWL or, more likely, CAD. They eat lowcarb for breakfast, lunch and snacks, and eat a "normal" dinner. I not only want them to lose a bit of weight, but want to improve my 9 yo's concentration. I have also cut out the playstation on all but weekend afternoons. I have already noticed a huge difference in Zach's mood for the better. My eldest, James, is 11 and dropped two pounds. Zach's lost one. Slow and steady is fine by me-they are growing kids. I just want to prevent them from growing wider than they are tall!

[BeccaResRN]

You know when I think about it my mom had me on a "diet" my whole life. I was very healthy until I got my own money and started buying junk food and fast foods.

My mom just provided healthy foods and good balence and no ho-ho's ding dongs or chips or pop.
we drank only 1 glass of milk a day and have nice strong bones, we also ate cottage cheese, cheese, yogurt and spiniach and greens.

I think you are doing a great job and providing a good example for healthy eating that will help them out for life. I also think that low carb calcium sources will be fine. if they are eating a "normal" dinner maybe a glass of milk with that.

Good Luck lets us know how they are doing and feeling :)

[Lisa N]

My kids are more on maintainance levels of low carb at this point and I don't "limit" milk per se. They usually have some with breakfast, lunch and dinner, but not huge glasses...more like 6 ounces each. In between meals they can have water or Kool-aid made with Splenda...I usually steer them towards water and they're gradually getting the idea that water is what you drink when you're thirsty (not pop, Kool-Aid or milk). They also eat yogurt, cheese and broccoli so they are getting plenty of calcium from those sources as well.
I don't think it's necessary to put growing children on induction levels of carbs. In fact, I really wouldn't recommend it. Since kids generally are more active, are still growing and usually have higher metabolisms than adults, most would probably lose well on maintainance levels of low carb.
I'm in the position at the moment of trying to keep my oldest (almost 9) from losing any more weight. Between our changing eating habits and her starting Concerta (a timed release version of Ritalin) last January, she's gone from 90 pounds down to 71 pounds since then and her pediatrician is having a fit! 19 pounds is a lot for an 8 year old to lose in 6 months and she's seriously concerned that it is going to start affecting her growth. This is a factor for all kids who are still growing; you don't want them to lose too quickly or it could affect their growth. That's probably why Dr. Atkins didn't recommend strict low carb for children under the age of 12. Since the Concerta kills her appetite and I can't get her to eat more, I'm having to try to make whatever she eats count both calorie-wise and nutrition wise; full-fat yogurt, full-fat sugar-free ice cream (homemade), higher fat meats and cheeses, and a higher (not high!) level of carbs from fruits, veggies and whole grains. I could get her to gain weight again quickly by letting her go back to eating junk food, but I'm not willing to go there.
Be careful with trying to get children under the age of 12 to lose weight; slower is far better in those cases (like maybe a few pounds a month!). What my pediatrician was actually recommending even when my daughter was 15 pounds overweight was to try and hold her weight where it was while her height caught up, not having her lose (growth issues again).

[Azraelle]

Judging from the meals you posted in your journal for your kids, they should be getting all the calcium they need from the meat and veggies you are feeding them. Biologically available calcium should be the real concern, not how much gross calcium a food contains. The calcium in (cow's) milk is less biologically available than that in meat, fish, and most vegetables, from what I have read, at least. Goat milk is apparently much more digestible, but is too expensive, and has a wierd flavor. Nothing wrong with Bacon and Eggs, either! You might try making some moderate carb bread with a bread machine (!$35-40 at Wal-Mart), and using it in tuna fish, sweet relish, and Miracle Whip sandwiches (yeh I know, there is SOME sugar involved, but the amount per sandwich is relatively low (7g total, assuming a tablespoon of each--5g for the relish, 2g for the Miracle Whip), especially considering the benefit gained. And in case anyone wants to know, having tried several brands, including store brands, IMHO, the best-tasting tuna-in-soybean-oil, ~$0.50/can cheap stuff, is Bumble Bee, by far.

For every fat kid that loses it as they grow taller, there is at least 1 that doesn't, like me, and presumably like you, judging from your first posts on the forum. If that is the case, then there is a 50% chance that the same genetics are involved with your kids as were involved with you. If I had known the hell I would go through all my life for being fat, and had my parents known of the Atkins solution when I was a teenager, I would have hated and reviled them for NOT doing something about it when they could have. Actually they DID try, but in my case, exercise alone was insufficient--unlike my 3 brothers, I LOVED Pasta to the exclusion of all else, when possible. In those days, this was considered healthy and normal. I don't believe being put on diets, per se, while growing up would cause an eating disorder (the justification used by liz175 for her tirade against trying Atkins on your kids)--the attitudes of the parents, and other unmentioned factors have much greater impact. When kids are surrounded by healthy food (the only food in the house!) and allowed to choose what they want, they will eat healthy. They are perhaps more in tune with their bodies' needs than adults.

[hey_Neener]

Thank-you Lisa N and Azraelle.
I posted a few menus for the boys and stopped to avoid another tirade. I'm glad you think they are doing ok. Life has gotten much easier around the house only making one meal at a time. Last night they had pork chops simmered in tomatoes and green chilis over a bed of fresh spinach and sprinkled with a shredded Italian cheese mix. They loved dinner and didn't complain at the lack of sides. They had no-sugar added icecream bars from Lucerne and couldn't tell the difference. James is happy he's losing-and started using light weights on my bench and sit-ups. Zach is just happy he's dropped a pound and a half-it's really helped his self-esteem. Kids are hard on the fat kids-its just a sad reality. My brother was a fat kid and is an even fatter adult. The rest of the family has been obese at one time or another. We have heart disease that follows the men in my family. Why take the chance with my sons?

[dreamer]

What is a typical day of eating for your children. My son is 11 and overweight by 10-15lbs. I want to lower his carbs starting with McDonalds and pizza, get the picture.

It was so easy and convienent to pick it up after a hard days work. I am helping him do this to himself. I want to change his eating habits but need some meal ideas.

Thanks for the help.

[Azraelle]

Why not just get him hooked on Mickey D's sliced grilled chicken salads--they're a heck of alot more healthy than a greaseburger, at least from Atkins perspective, and they come with a generous packet of Newman's Own (I prefer his Caesar dressing myself).

[Lisa N]

What is a typical day of eating for your children.

Well, I can't vouch for what they eat at school when I'm not looking, but a typical day's menu looks like this:

Breakfast: Milk and toast with peanut butter (light wheat bread) or yogurt, oatmeal, fried eggs

Lunch: milk, 1 slice sandwich usually with peanut butter and sugar-free jam, fruit (apples, oranges, pears, sometimes bananas, etc...), gogurt, cheese stick, baby carrots and ranch dressing dip

After school snack: Fruit, yogurt, cheese sticks, peanut butter crackers, cheese and crackers, occasionally popcorn or 1 homemade cookie

Dinner: veggie with butter or cheese sauce (broccoli, spinach, green beans, cauliflower, salad with ranch dressing, california blend or some similar veggie), meat, milk

Dessert: Sugar-free ice cream, sugar-free pudding (sometimes over fresh fruit), sugar-free jello with berries in it and topped with whipped cream

Occasional foods: 1 cookie on cookie day at school, 1 bag of popcorn on popcorn day at school, 1 slice of pizza on pizza day at school, regular ice cream after school on Fridays. 1 bag of regular (kid-type) cereal per month; their choice, occasional bagels for breakfast or rolls with dinner. Spaghetti with garlic bread once in a while or spaghettios, hot dogs (with a bun), birthday treats at school

They get to order whatever they want when we eat out (usually once every 2 weeks) and eat whatever they want on holidays and once in a while I will make them a higher carb treat such as banana bread or homemade cookies or make homemade pizza at home for them.

[LadyBelle]

How in the heck ar eyou guys getting your kids to eat veggies!! wahhhhhh!.

I can sneak my son an egg roll, or put spinich on pizza, but other then that if it's green, he's not touching it. (He's 4 btw)

The baby is easy. You put it on a spoon and shovel....

[potatofree]

Why not just get him hooked on Mickey D's sliced grilled chicken salads--they're a heck of alot more healthy than a greaseburger, at least from Atkins perspective, and they come with a generous packet of Newman's Own (I prefer his Caesar dressing myself).

Sorry, although my son actually LIKES salad, I know of not a single instance in captivity where a kid will want a salad when there are Happy Meals to be had!

I think there's absolutely NO harm in limiting refined flours and sugar from kids' diets. My son doesn't notice the difference in the sugarfree ice cream he gets, I give him "light" bread..I can even get away with making low-carb pasta, since he's SO fond of anything I call "casserole" or "hotdish" I don't even think he CARES!

I try not to make a federal case out of having cookies in the house, since it's the forbidden things that taste SO much sweeter...aren't we all a bit that way! I just make sure it's not the kind I like..I'm only human....

Milk really IS just one source of calcium. Especially if the kids take a supplement, or even better, get it from natural sources like your boys are, Janenne, I'm sure it'll be fine! I know WAY too many parents who don't care what their kids eat, and THAT'S sad. I'm glad you're making the effort for them, BEFORE they have to go through years of teasing and medical problems.

[hey_Neener]

The kids are doing fine. James barely has flab on his torso-and looks fine everywhere else. I can't see he's overweight unless he wears a tight shirt or is in his skivies. Zach has lost his full chin and his face isn't as round. He doesn't have to suck his gut in anymore to close his older pants either. I've seen a remarkable difference in such a short time for just a few pounds lost.

Typical Breakfast: eggs, assorted breakfast meat

Typical lunch: Hot dish-left overs or cooked up while making breakfast-over spinach, with assorted fresh veggie or fruit, cheese stick, cocktail pepperoni, one sf candy for desert and milk or sf koolaid. Water.

Typical dinner-nothing's typical anymore! We have more menu variety than ever in our Carb-ful days.

The boys get to eat what they want on weekends, but I don't buy crap. If they want it-they buy it with their allowance. Dinners three times a week with grandma are a food fest too. James is pretty good about sticking to the plan, but then he's older and better understands the plan. Either way, they'll both look better by Christmas. I'm sooo glad they decided to jump on the bandwagon. Neither one has wanted to quit yet.

[Azraelle]

Sorry, although my son actually LIKES salad, I know of not a single instance in captivity where a kid will want a salad when there are Happy Meals to be had!

When I was growing up, my dad insisted on some sort of MEAT 3 times a day, 7 days a week--steak, hamburger, sausage, beef stew--it got tiresome. So when we moved to Las Vegas in my early adolescence, and he started taking the family out to eat every Sunday afternoon, he expected everyone to order steak! Around the age of 11, I saw some guy next to us eating what I found out from the waitress was a Chef's Salad, I said I wanted THAT! Rather than be embarrassed about insisting that I order a steak, dad gave in. And then mom promptly ordered a Halibut! Thereafter, I would always order either a Chef's Salad, or Halibut, mostly at first just to tick him off, but I also found them to be REALLY GOOD (especially compared to the alternative!!!).

You could try ordering a salad with the happy meal toy thrown in...or buy one "to-go" and take it home and have him try it...or order both, but ask him to gobble a bite or two of salad for every X-number of french fries, etc.

[potatofree]

Oh, there's nothing wrong with having a salad with their meal, kid or NOT. I just worry a lot about making a big issue about food. It IS important that they learn that some choices are better than others, and WHY... but my big saying is "all things in moderation". I think Janenne is right on about not turning it into a battle... My ex-SIL is a food Nazi, and what do you suppose the kids, and ever her HUSBAND do? Sneak candy and sugar every chance they GET behind her back! I'm always under attack for having junk food available to my kids, but it makes me laugh to have to throw OUT 3/4 of the Halloween loot the kids lose interest in, while HER kids have theirs gone the next DAY..(and they hit about 10 times the houses mine do...lol)

I have to admit, I've "covered" for my ex-BIL when his wife tells him he's had enough pie on Thanksgiving, and he tries to sneak an extra piece while she's not in the room. I've actually gone and gotten it, pretending it's for me, sice she WATCHES him! The kids actually came up with a plan, where ONE kid asks for something and gets her to turn her back, while the OTHER moves in on the cookies...<shrug> Hey, they're learning cooperation, I guess!

[luddybell]

lol barb that is sooo funny what your in-laws do.... ROFL.... sounds like 2 kids i baby sat for a while.. they werent allowed to have anything that wasnt "organic" so the mom about freaked when she found out that I gave her babies "real" cheese !! but from then on the lil girl and boy would both ask "ms. misty" what kind of goodies she was going to bring them the next time she came over LOL and the funny thing is I always took them something LOL :) man.... some people take things to the major extremes

[hey_Neener]

Thanks for the validation Barb. My kids will be fine, I want them to lose the weight slowly-they are still in active growth phases. I never want to be a dreaded food Nazi! The holidays will be fun, I'm not sure what I'll do with the Halloween candy. Maybe a piece for dessert at dinners (since I'm less LC then)-and a bit more on weekends till Thanksgiving and toss the rest.

[potatofree]

My son was underweight almost his whole life.. He was a preemie, has had (counting on fingers) about eight or so operations, each when he was FINALLY gaining, so they knocked him back! <grrr>

Now, he's on the "chunky" side, due to his seizure meds, but I'm just adding more salads and veggies to BOTH our diets, while still letting him have the "carby" things, just less often and smaller quantities. He gets sugarfree ice cream treats and doesn't even LOOK at the label... He hasn't complained yet!

I just try to not pick fights over food. I figure it all balances out if he's choosing from healthy alternatives. He may want mostly meat at one meal, veggies the next...sometimes just mac-n-cheese. If you average out the intake over a week, for instance, it almost always comes out pretty balanced. (But don't get me STARTED on school lunches!)

[hey_Neener]

I gave up on school lunches this year. Zach gained a lot of weight last year eating breakfast and lunch there-my guess is about 15 pounds. Not to say he wasn't also eating plenty at home-so I'm not blameless either-but I've seen the light!

[LadyBelle]

Can I join the rant on schoo lunches? The "Healthy USDA approved" kind. :P

I remember my HS school lunches. If we were lucky w emight have one thing, usually a carb with soem protien. We had the option of grabbing a slice of bread and occasionaly a fruit. Basicaly it couldn't keep a mouse full, much less growing kids. I've heard they improved it somewhat since I left.

What gets me is my son's lunches and breakafsts at preschool They will have the same thing for breakfast and snack most days. Almost all meals are served with juice, which isn't to bad. What gets me mad is those healthy balanced meals are often: muffins, pop tarts, fruit loops, cookies, cinnimon roll, grahm cracker/teddy grams, banana bread, cake, brownie, and so on. (that is just reading from the September menus)

The only good points is that they seem to offer a fruit with every meal, and with most lunches a veggie is offered. Now I can understand the difficulty in getting 20 3-5 year olds to eat veggies, but I can't imagine the chaos in that room once the sugar high kicks in.

[hey_Neener]

School breakfast and lunches were pretty nutritious in my day-at least for what they knew then. We had a protein, starch, veggie, fruit, desert and milk for lunch and hot cereal, waffles, pancakes, frenchtoast, breakfast meats and milk for breakfast. The school cooks made our food at the school-mostly from scratch. My kids get processed convience foods, full of breads, sugars, sodium and nitrates/nitrites. They serve more cheese and frankenfoods than meat. I know the menu is largely based on cost and staffing, but sheesh! No wonder the kids gain weight.
To top it off, the teachers use recess as a punishment too. I went to the principal and told them I don't want my sons to miss recess for any reason-if they misbehave make them run laps rather than skip exercise. James, then 10, had come to me after missing three days of recess for not finishing his classwork saying "I know I have to exercise my mind, but I'm fat and need to exercise my body too." I couldn't exactly disagree, could I?

[potatofree]

When he's right, he's right. With my son, he gets left out of ENOUGH without using that as a weapon...

Our cooks do a really good job with what they have, but ever since the government decided ketchup can be counted as a vegetable, it was all downhill from there!

Our school lunches are very starchy, but at least they get salad bar most days as well. I LOVE it when they say "fruit" when they mean syrup-canned beige fruit cocktail...,
<snarl>

[LadyBelle]

At least his school still has recess. They are building some schools with no playgrounds at all in Atlanta and a few other places. They decided that since we were falling so far behind japanese students, the answer was to cut out recess and use that time for studying. Suposedly kids get enough physical exercise in PE (I remember that being what, twice a week in elementary).

They didn't even bother to notice that in most countries, including Japan, the kids actually have longer breaks then we do and know the kids need movement and to give the mind a rest :P

[hey_Neener]

Don't Japanese kids go to school nearly year round? I know teachers are very much against it here, but we are hardly an agricultural society anymore-especially city kids.
They also have a huge cultural difference from us. There, it is the child's job to succeed in school-to benefit the family honor. Kids are not allowed to act up in class-or at home for that matter.

[potatofree]

Well, Janenne, we ARE an agricultural society here, and the kids ARE needed on the farms. In fact, kids can get excused absences for helping with farm work on a case-by-case basis! Of course the cities aren't that way, but pretty much the whole middle of the country is....

Kids DO need recess and such, but there again, we're making the school responsible for WAY more than they should be. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with turning off the tube and going for a walk together, playing games in the backyard, or some other physical activity. I realize not many get the luxury of being an at-home parent, but I think too many parents abdicate their responsibilities when they ARE home!

I worked in a special-needs preschool class in the publuc school. Probably a third of these kids were in there because Mom and/or Dad didn't spend time with them and give them ANY kind of discipline and learning.... and these were the kids of not just the poor and uneducated. A LOT of well-dressed career-oriented go-getters who just happened to think it was the SCHOOL'S job to do everything. There was a Dad who called and yelled at the teacher for sending a home activity for the kid to do with the parents.... he SCREAMED about wanting HER paycheck if he had to do HER job. I was shocked! Also, we did a lot of work on manners and nutrition in the lunchroom. I can understand why school lunches are the way they are, really. If a kid hasn't seen a piece of fruit before, it's hard at that age to convince them to eat it! The battle is to get them to EAT something, not just feed the wastebasket.....

Not to mention sex ed, anti-bullying, drug education..and, oh, yes....actual reading, writing, and 'rithmetic.......somewhere in there! It makes me sad that the school is having to parent so many children.

<sigh> and to think, this all came from a question about limiting milk???? lol!

[Azraelle]

The school lunch program at Dixie High School (middle, intermediate, and elementary, being clustered somewhat, get the same thing) in St.George, UT is . . . . Domino's Pizza!! The school district was losing too much money on staffing a kitchen so they put lunch feeding up for bid. Domino's must, however, insure that it is a "healthy" pizza by ensuring that every slice has at least three (count them--3!) slices of pepperoni!! :rolleyes:

RE: Teachers being against lengthening the school year. Of course they are against it--if YOU had 3 months paid vacation every year and your employer suddenly threatened to reduce it to a mere 6 weeks in order to increase productivity, you'd be irritated too!! Never mind that the REST of the workforce has to survive on a month or (usually) less of paid vacation per year . . . The teachers of course would argue, usually outside of earshot of the general public that "that was the reason I got into the profession! You couldn't seriously believe that I actually wanted to TEACH??" :daze: (Both my parents, as well as one of my brothers were teachers, so the cynicism isn't completely ungrounded) :D

[potatofree]

Of course the idea of it being three months of paid vacation assumes that they get paid enough to LIVE on. Unfortunately, the teachers I know and am related to all have at LEAST one other job to make ends meet. That's sad. ND ranks toward the bottom in teacher pay, yet near the TOP in graduation rate and national test scores.

If each parent paid the teacher a dollar an hour to babysit the kid, think of what THAT would earn them!

[LadyBelle]

TEachers in most places are drasticaly underpaid. You add in the burn out, 0 support from the community and parents, and then wonder why they aren't as enthusiastic after a few years.

Schools anymore are being used as daycare facilities. It isn't uncommon for a High Schooler to have 3 study halls and a free period, but still have to be there all day. Standards have been progressivly lowered as kids fail to meet the current ones, while days have been extended. I support homeschooling and would love to try it, but I need the babysitting of the public school to work. My children also need the socialization as I don't have a large network of support that includes children thier ages.

I think the idea of year round school with longer or more frequent breaks within the year is a much better idea. That or the schools that only go 4 days a week. I've even heard of some charter schools that go half days, then the second half of the day is spent on classes the child can choose for enrichment, intermural sports and activities, and a wide variety of other programs.

I come from a state that is still agracultural. We even still have a few one room schools and schools that feature corrals for the horses kids ride in on. Some kids get up earlier then 4 am to get the chores done, then sit on a 2 hr bus ride to reach the nearest school by 8.

Some schools here have moved to the 4 day a week plan though, reserving Friday for sports and other activities so absenteeism is way down.

I would like a year round school for mychildren that would feature alot more physical activity. In the warmer months they can do hands on science outside. Gymnastics and other physicaly intense classes would be offered.

Unfortunetly there are only a few schools like this in the country. I do plan on getting them into the one charter school Wyoming has. While it isn't year round or anything, it does start phonics in the kindigarten and integrates Spanish through out the cirriculum. By the time kids leave kindigarten they can read to varying degrees.

[hey_Neener]

My 11 yo James is really getting into the swing of his plan. He is starting to read labels and knows how to look for net carbs. He won't eat the occassional treat I put in his lunch unless he checks the label at home first. I think he likes the compliments from friends and family. He eats plenty, he's just cautious. He won't cheat as heavily as his brother on his weekends off or dessert after dinner. The 9 yo Zach, he's another story! The goodies are finally eaten and he's going through the "there's nothing good to pick at" blues. Poor baby! I went through 10 pounds of fruit in three days. If he's going to sneak, I guess it's better than candy. BTW-sneaking food is not new behavior-and it's a big reason for his current girth.

[Kemss]

Does anyone know where to get SOY SLENDER? I see that it was mentioned here and would love to try it. Thanks!

[canoc]

Here is a link to where Soy Slender is sold.

http://www.westsoy.biz/company/wheretoshop.html

[Lisa N]

Something else to consider as a lower carb alternative to regular milk is the new Carb Countdown milk by Hood. It has 3 grams of carb per 8 oz. serving and tastes like regular milk. In fact, it IS regular milk with the lactose removed and Splenda added instead. It comes in Regular, 2%, fat free and chocolate. It's a bit more expensive than milk (okay, it costs twice as much), but for kids or teens on low carb I think it would be ideal...all of the calcium and 1/4 of the carbs. It also has protein added as well as vitamins A and D. :)

[Kemss]

Thank you Canoc and Lisa for the info... I love milk, have switched to Silk, but it too has a lot of carbs. I am definitely going to give these two a try! I was on the Low Carb diet last year - lost about 15 pounds... then went 'nutso' gained it all back and then some... so here I am again :) determined to get back to my 120!!
Thanks again!

[potatofree]

I tried the Carb Countdown, and was a bit disappointed. I don't know what I was expecting, but for $3.99 a carton.....more than I got!

[byrdie16]

Hi all, fairly new here but just wanted to post how atkins has affected my kids who are: just turned 3yr, 17 mth, 5 mth. They eat what whatever I fix for meals. Occasionally they might have a piece of bread for PB/J sandwich or sweets when we aren't at home or are having company. They are thriving on no potato, rice, pasta, etc. But the one thing I like BEST is the 3 year old doesn't expect or ask continually for candy, dessert, etc!! You can tell now with post holiday transition, that he loved what what was available so now we're working on it again but I know what the results will be and it's worth it! I'm fortunate we started with the assumption that our family all eats the same thing and the 2 oldest eat spinach salad, coleslaw, etc.