Pemmican

[JenofWi]

Anybody made any? I want to but don't have/can't afford to buy a dehydrator. I would have to dry my meat at 170 degrees. That's the lowest temp my oven will do.

[jaybird]

Hey Jen.. how's it going on the Pemmican. I've been hoping someone would send you a reply, cause I've been wanting to make some myself. It just sounds so yummy to me....I remember my grandmother would make it. I also can't afford a dehydrator......

[PaleoDeano]

I have a dehydrator.

I would love to try it !!!

How do you make it?

I will let you know how it turns out.

- Dean

[Karen]

How do you make it?
The recipe for it is in the Neanderthin book. Recipe for jerky is there too. :)

Karen

[jaybird]

Cool...my hubbie is finally coming around about our health. He just started Atkins induction today I am sooo happy! And he wants to get a dehydrator now all of a sudden ( I asked for one in March)...he wants to make beef jerky. Jen, if you go to the recipe section I think under quick meals and snacks there is a pemmican recipe that I just found a few days ago. I'm going to try it as soon as I get around to getting the suet from the butcher.

[JenofWi]

Hi. I hope you found your recipe. I would use the one from the Neanderthin book. Pretty much one part jerky to one part lard. You can add in some dried fruit.

I have the jerky - I bought it. I have some lard but it isn't from a grass fed animal and I thought I'd hold out and look for some that is.

If any one get some made before I do ( I imagine you all will since I'm leaving town for a week and have been moving at a snail's pace on this anyway), tell us all your results!

Thanks for the responses.

[huntress]

I made some pemmican last nite. I dried some deer meat in my dehydrator then I tried to grind it, plugged up the grinder the food processor reduced it to a fine powder. For fat I had some marrow bones in the freezer I baked them in the oven an got about a half a cup of fat.

1 1/2 cup meat powder
1/2 cup marrow grease
1/2 cup coconut oil
1 tsp honey

the only problem the fat never set. I think the coconut oil was the cause, marrow fat sets hard and white I really liked the taste all my buddies didn't. I am going to use beef lobe fat and marrow fat next time, and add dried blueberries. If I don't get a deer will use beef. ( I am all out of deer Good thing they increased the bag limit)

Diane

[alaskaman]

When I was a kid, I made some, from, I think, an old camping and woodcraft book by either Horace Kephart or Ernest Thompson-Seton. Anyhow, it had crushed oven-dried meat, I got the butcher to give me some tallow, cause he knew that would set hard. Put some sourberries in it (highbush cranberries? chokecherries?) I thought it was good. Kind of made the roof of my mouth greasy, with the tallow. Huntress, if you don't already have it, there's a book called "northern bushcraft" which is really cool. Bill

[captxray]

:read2:

I made some this summer for my hiking adventures in the Sierras and Cascades. It's truly amazing stuff! My brother and I are ultra-lite backpackers...with Jerky and pemmican, we were able to keep our packs below 17 pounds, total...that's tarp, clothing, food, fishing gear (yeah, now that I'm a hunter and gatherer, I fish..totally!), and everything else, like camera and first aid...etc. We shot past those poor slobs with their fifty to sixty pound packs. They wondered how we could be so lite that it didn't even feel like we were carrying packs. When we told them we ate nothing but home-made pemmican, jerky, and whatever fish we caught, they turned up their poor, worn-out noses and sniffed that they would rather eat that dehydrated crap that gives me a total gas and bowel attack! Poor, uninformed, ignorant city-folk! How silly they are to be eating all of that food that is killing them with their diabetes, cancer, and other auto-immune disorders. They just won't listen, most of 'em. They know a "better way," even though that "better way" is going to do them all in. Not that I will necessarily live to an extremely old age. One thing I do know, though. I will be in better shape, and feel better, physically, while I AM here. Quality of life means more to me than longevity, anyway. And, there is still a chance that I will live longer because I thought to change my woe.

Now, I really love pemmican..it's very fatty...Since I now have a fat-burning metabolism, I love the stuff! I can sit and drink the fat leavings after I take a roast out of the pan...that used to be a big YUK! Now, that is not necessarily a good thing, either, though. Beef fat is high in the bad transfatty acids...omega 6...not good for us. That's because they are grain-fed for the last two weeks of their sorry lives. If they were range-fed, there would be the right percentages of Omega 3 to Omega 6 tranfatty acids. Home-made jerky...without all of the sugar...is great, too. I didn't have deer meat, which would have been better...next year, though. I'm getting a rifle this year and hope to bag one of the cute little Bambis...whenever I see them in the forest, I salivate about all of that meat on the hoof that could be in my stomach! I used to think they were cute. Now, I see FOOD! I see a lot of them where I live, in the Oregon Cascades. Someday, I hope to be proficient in using the bow...but, for now, I will blow them away with a high-powered rifle! Not that I want to kill them for the sport...I think that is highly wasteful and not in keeping with my natural environment or my place in the food chain. Nope! I want to eat them, when I get hungry! I even plan to thank them for getting in my sights, so I can eat them. That's what many of the "primitives" do. I wonder who is really "primitive and savage." I thank each fish that gets on my line. If he gets away, I just figure it wasn't his time to become food on my platter. I used to have a problem with clubbing them on their little noggins. Not anymore. I don't want them to suffer, if they are going to become food for me. I don't need the bad chemicals of their suffering, anymore than they need to suffer. I think I've spouted off for long enough. Would love to have this thread pick up and become a little more energetic.

[PaleoDeano]

captxray,

could you please tell how you made the Jerky and pemmican? i would appreciate it. i just got a dehydrator. did you use one to make either? i too am a light backpacker. i know that water and food is the main weight on any trip. so please give the steps to make these... thanks! i too want to get a rifle and start deer hunting.

i know what you mean about drinking fat. i can never get enough fat. what do you think is the best source of animal fat... i really want to up my intake! i have resorted to using butter and cheese, but really want to get away from both.

Dean

[Signey]

Hello,
I just dropped into this forum to look around. I saw the pemmican post and I thought you all might enjoy this site:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/3067/Pemmican.html
It has a ton of recipes, some applicable, some not. Quite a few of them looked like they would work for Paleo/NT.
Enjoy!

[alaskaman]

This thread about pemmican has me excited, 'cause I'd sort of forgotten about it, haven't really found the perfect food for canoe trips, hikes, whatever. Atkins bars work, keep me going, don't raise blood sugar, but you could never call them NATURAL, you know. Have tried Spam, Corned Beef, brazilian canned roast beef, but they are awfully salty, and then there's those cans to pack out, and in bear country who wants a sack of spam cans in your camp? Will get out my dehydrator and get to work. Also, I make sausage with my dad, and he says when he was young, they smoked it so much, refridgeration was unnecessary, they just hung it in the attic or the tankhouse. Well, sausage that has been smoked that much, is perhaps a lot like pemmican, a casing filled with cured meat and fat - his dad liked his sausage fat, put in extra fat along with the meat from their hogs. I wish I knew how to tell when it was safely cured, wouldn't want to get the mollygrobbles out on the trail. I will try to research this, there are some books on curing meats, or perhaps some of you already know. One thing for sure, you can't really live on that freeze dried stuff. I shared with some of you my story about being in the Brooks range, meeting a kind of hermit up there, he had shot a caribou with his .22, had 2 skillets going over his woodstove, we must have eaten most of that caribou that night, just the six of us. We could feel the difference between real food and empty calories. Bill

[Signey]

Hey Alaskaman,
Alaska Mill and Feed used to have a good selection of sausage making supplies and books. You might want to try there. I'm sure the Extension has pamphlets on curing meat too. The trick will be finding recipes that do not use chemicals. I'm sure that there are published methods that are natural.
I believe that all of my source material uses nitrates and the like. I will look through them and see what I can find. I tend to collect tradional/old fashioned based homemaking books. The trick is that a lot of these chemicals have been being used for a hundred years or so.
We shall see. :)

[sunkist]

My Father was 1/2 Cherokee Indian & 1/2 Swedish and he used to make pemmican when he'd go visit his Dad down in Tennessee. My brother has the recipe and has made it when he lived in Pennsylvania from White tail Deer Meat.

I just don't think it would taste the same from beef. Venison has a sweet flavor to it. My brother is coming out hopefully for christmas and so I'm going to ask him to make it for me and show me how to make it.

coconut oil is only hard in cold conditions so it would definitely throw off the hardness of the other fats

[captxray]

Hi, Dean.

I just followed the incredibly simple recipes for both in Ray Audet's book, "Neanderthin." While I have a dehydrator that I use for fruits and vegetables, I will NEVER use it for curing meat! I don't care what THEY say. There are too many little beasties that show up in our meat. I know. My wife's family owns a packing plant. Not necessarily a place to go, if you get the squeamies. I've watched the vet stuffing his hands into the globs they call organs and such and pulling out awful looking stuff from some of the animals...I just think about the ones that the vet doesn't find. So, therefore, I use my oven on a higher temperature than a dehydrator can take it...(about 170 degrees) that's to kill the little worms, and bugs and stuff. Really makes you want to go have a rare steak, huh? I have a feeling that Mankind started to live longer after he or she (most-likely "she"...women seem to be more attuned to cool stuff like getting inventive with food...we men will just l sit and eat the same old crap because it's there...I know that sounds sexest, and there are men who don't feel this way, but I go by experience) found out about cooking meat. I know all about those great enzymes and stuff, but I would rather be safe than dead...or, at least incredibly sick...you see, I've been there, too...from tainted turkey ala King...Don't ever want to go there, AGAIN!!!!

The stuff worked great on our hiking, this summer. I ate fish until I thought I would explode...we caught 52 golden trout in one lake! Used barbless hooks and threw most of them back, but we definetly had a fish fry on our primitive pans...The pemmican satiates the hunger pangs...even on a strenuous hike...it doesn't take much, either. And the recipe I used stays hard enough (at the bottom of the pack and in the middle), wrapped in wax paper. If I had left the pack out in the sun, or it had been really hot, I think it would have melted, but we had pretty good luck with it. It was kind of neat as we hiked over a pass that was originally first traversed by the Yosemite Indians on their trading journies to visit the Mono Indians...and, here we were, eating what they ate on the same trail, a couple of hundred years ago.

[sunkist]

thanks for the great links Signey- I might just go and try it this weekend based on that one recipe for sun drying the meat.

The sun is so strong in the backyard - it shouldn't take long at all for the meat to dry. Then the health food store sells dried blueberries and other berries. I can't wait because Ive been looking for a snack that had some lasting power to it

[captxray]

I forgot to answer your question about animal fat. Wild meat is the best source of animal fat. Barring that, I use a ton of olive oil, but not for cooking! Olive oil quickly declines when heated and gives off incredibly harmful cancer-causing free radicals in its smoke (into the air and on the plate!). When you cook, the best fat that I've found is palm oil. All of that stuff we've heard about it being bad is when it's served with popcorn, remember...we don't eat popcorn..the real culprit. Palm oil breaks down very slowly in the cooking process and doesn't give off many free radicals. However, all fat, when heated begins to degrade and free radicals are givin off. That's why it's also not a great thing to be housed too near a Burger King or MacDonald's, or any other restaurant that cooks meat...especially, the ones that cook it over a fire. You get that free radical, cancer-causing smoke all day long...not a good thing, even though it smells great. Another thing is to remember to eat a lot of things that have antioxidants in them...our caveman ancestors did. Antioxidants neutralize free radicals...things like the cruciferous veggies (broccolli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts, and some others), along with carrots, celery, red and romaine lettuce, and almost all veggies and fruit...especially citrus, apples, and most fresh fruits contain high amounts of antioxidants. Good to take vitamins like E and C and B, too, just to be sure you're getting all of the antioxidants you need to fight off the free radicals in the air from carbon-burning machines, etc. Probably don't need copper because it is found in great quantities alongside roadways...internal combustion engines tend to spew quite a bit of that into the air, too. I hope I got all that right...I'm not an expert...just picked it up by reading a lot.

[PaleoDeano]

yah, i think i am going to try and get some bison fat or lamb fat (both grass-fed)... and i don't have a problem dehydrating this meat - it is not the same as the commercial stuff coming of the feedlots!

thanks

[Signey]

Hi,
I looked through my cookbooks and started with Home Sausage Making Healthy Low-Salt, Low-Fat Recipes. When I got to the part about nitrates, I really paid attention. The author, Charles G. Reavis is very much in favor of trying to make a healthy product (even if he is misinformed about the fat :rolleyes: ) but he does council using nitrates for cured sausages. Apparently nitrates, including salt peter, have been in use since Roman time, two thousand years. The reason why? Botulism. That made me back right out of thinking about creating a cured sausage without nitrates. Not something I even want to mess with. Fresh sausage is completely different and does not require nitrates of any kind. It is used immediatly or it is canned or frozen. I suspect that during the time that it takes for the sausage to cure/dry, the botulism forms. The tightly packed meat and the casing create the anerobic enviroment for the bacteria to flourish. Yuck! :Puke:

My husband and I discussed the question of why pemmican would not be a host for botulism? At least I have not seen a warning for this. At the link that I posted earlier, one person talked about how he had pemmican that was perfectly safe after storing for four years. Is it because botulism needs moisture to form? I know it requires an anerobic/no oxygen enviroment. The fat would provide that. I would be interested to hear other's thoughts on this. The fruit could easily be a host for the bacteria as it found in the ground.
Anyway, the book that I refer to above has some very good how to info and some great recipes for both fresh and cured sausage. My husband and I have made batches and it is a blast! If you've never made your own sausage you should give it a try.
Cheers!

[alaskaman]

Hi Signey, this is a VERY interesting topic, has us all scurrying to our sources.Regarding the nitrate issue, I am not as scared of it as some - interesting, though that Indians did not use it in their pemmican. Also, remembered reading about, and looked up tonight, a french thing called "confit" in which "meat like duck, goose, or pork...is salted and cooked in its own fat. It is then packed into a pot and covered with the cooking fat, which works as a seal and preservative." Not really any different from pemmican, is it? no nitrates, either. My granddads smoked sausage, hanging in the attic for months, some farmers used nitrates to cure and give a nice red color, he never did.???Could be the casings are not all that airtight - as an Alaskan you probably have read stories about botulism outbreaks from native foods - seems they often occur when modern products are substituted, like plastic bags, which are truly impermeable, for seal stomachs which are slightly permeable. I sure don't want to take chances, but if frenchmen have been safely eating confit forever, and indians ate their pemmican, and mennonite farmers ate their sausage,well???? I am thinking I will put up a bunch of pemmican and a few links of my sausage, leave it unrefridgerated, and have it tested - I bet the Extension service could do that. Dad and I put up a bunch of sausage links today, smoked it in the little chief smoker, but are refridgerating it until it gets "et" which won't be long. BTW, thanks for the tip about Ak Mill and Feed, will try them as well as Alaska Butcher Supply, want a better stuffer than the piece of junk from Harbor Freight. Bill

[alaskaman]

Have been reading Stefansson's book about pemmican, getting more stoked than ever. Since I have cut my carbs to about 20g or so, Might be able to make the transition to all-meat, and would want to see how the pemmican, high % fat, moderate protein, would work as a trail food. It worked for the voyageurs, and for Captain xray, why not for me, tho as a diabetic sometimes nothing works as it should. BTW have been arguing on some other threads, about the total un-necessity of carbs, but to be honest, I couldn't hack the yupik diet back in the 50's.the Seal looked like your family collie boiled, black meat, white bones, and tasted like poor beef drenched with codliver oil.Whale was better but still a lot of secondhand fish. Actually the muktuk, blubber, raw stuff was better, but kind of gave me the fantods, mentally. Still it worked for them for eons, and If I'd known what I now know about nutrition, would have tried harder to adjust.Cheers, Bill

[captxray]

Wow! You are into BEING what you do. I respect that. I do not live in an area where I could eat a lot of seal or whale...interior Oregon...and it doesn't sound too appetizing, anyway, to my standards. I grew up on pasta and potatoes, and corn, and beef....on a farm in southern California, before the people moved in. So, eating deer and elk and bison...and lots of trout, salmon and bass are more in tune with my "old ways." I just don't think I can really get into eating squirrel...although, I could if I had to, of course...besides, they get a disease called tularemia that can kill humans if it gets into your mucus membranes, like rubbing your eyes after cleaning the little suckers. I'm not really into eating the reptiles, either, but rattlesnake isn't too bad...it really does kind of taste like chicken, with all of the bones removed...after you fillet it, of course. Pheasant, and the other wild birds are pretty good, except God seemed to make them with a ton of bones! I don't exactly know how chickens get around...and turkeys! They have half the bones of other birds! Insects and spiders are around me in abundance, but, again...that goes so askew of the culture I grew up in, I would have difficulty eating them. I have thought about grasshoppers and ants, at times, but still haven't gotten around to trying them. They really aren't that different than shrimp, or crab, or lobster. I hear they aren't too bad. If you cook grasshoppers over a fire, they taste kind of nutty, I'm told. Not yet! Crawdads (crayfish) are also around here in abundance in the streams and rivers, and they are pretty good (just freshwater lobster on a small scale), except you have to get a ton of them to make a decent meal. If I had been born and grew up an Inuit, I probably would have no problem with seal, or raw whale blubber. But, my tastes were set at a very early age. It's very hard to change that, after 50+ years of eating habits. I don't think botulism is a problem with pemmican. I have never heard of it being a problem. I'm still here to testify that I didn't get any last summer and it is amazing stuff. There is almost no waste from it. I mean your "movements" will sort of cease, unless you're eating vegetable matter, along with it, or something else. It is almost 96-98% assimilated into the body and burned up, rather than leaving any residue. I had no cravings. I didn't get hungry. I DID feel weak after a few hours and could tell I needed some more, but no hunger pangs.

[alaskaman]

Well, xray, maybe I laid it on a bit thick, I am in a VERY urban area now, you prob have more opp for "foraging" than I do. But due to my diabetes, have to cut the carbs more and more, would like to get to a fat/protein based metabolism, even tho some diabetics use sugar when they are doing heavy work, it seems like i Peary and shackleton and Stafansson could perform incredible feats of endurance without sugar, that's the way i'd prefer it. Bill

[jaybird]

Well, I'm gonna make pemmican tomorrow! I have the beef and I'm drying it today...does anyone have recommendations for different ways to dry it? I read one way where you slice very thin and hang over wires of rack in oven with tin foil underneath. My husband is concerned about this, he is afraid juices will still drip on the coils and smoke up a lot. I think it will be fine...has anyone done it this way, and how did it work?
I went to the meat counter at Albertson's today and asked for suet and he said, "Hmm, we just throw it in a bucket and use it to make soap". I asked him if there was any way I could get some and he said he had no more today. I asked him if there was any way I could get some anytime, if customer's could request it. He was like. "People don't ask for fat anymore." I asked again if there was any way to get some and how early in the day he would need to know ( I got to the store at about 9:30am today). Well, finally he was convinced I really wanted some and is reserving some for me tomorrow morning. It was just funny, he totally wasn't expecting anyone to ask for fat.
Oh yeah, and as far as grinding up the meat, I've heard that a blender can do the job. Does anyone know how well it works?

[PaleoDeano]

I am going to use my dehydrator. It is for making dried fruits and such and jerky. I have not tried it yet, but will very soon. What is the best meat to use and how do you slice it? Can I get the meat counter to slice it, and if so, how should I have them slice it? I will ask for fat as well from the meat counter at the grocery store, but, what should I ask for? What kind of fat is best, just fat from beef? Please let me know, because I am very interested in making some pemmican! yum, yum!!!
http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/yelclap.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

[jaybird]

Well, I have been searching the net all about pemmican. Check this out: http://www.physicalmind.com/pemmican.htm
It has a great explanation and tells you what meat and everything and even shows photographs. My meat is in the freezer now. Tomorrow morning I will take it out of the freezer and let it thaw a little, but cut it when it is still a little frozen to make it easier to cut thin slices. Tomorrow I am spending my day slicing, drying and grinding meat...and rendering fat. Wish me luck!

[captxray]

Way to go, you guys! I think it's really cool that so many of us are doing the right thing and making food that is actually good for our bodies! I encourage all of you to follow your very own recipes and see what happens. It sure worked for me, I'll tell ya'...(Neanderthin book recipe) I think I'll go out and eat an ant! Or maybe some bison. I found a bison ranch about 30 miles away over the hills from where I live. I'm going to go out there and see if I can actually buy the meat from them, wholesale. Wish me luck. The best meat for your stuff would be wild...deer, elk, bison, or grass-fed beef. That way you get away from the harmful Omega 6 transfatty acids and "beef up" on the Omega 3s, instead. A friend of mine just gave me an incredibly wonderful sounding recipe for deer, elk, or bison. Take a roast, put it in a pan, after rubbing on your favorite sugar-free ingredients, fill your pan half up with water, put in a whole chorizo sausage and break it up around the meat and let it cook in the oven all day long at about 200-250 degrees...slow cooking. I think I'll do that, but put it in my crock pot and let it go all day long. He says the meat just falls off in wonderful mouth-watering pieces. His kids loved it so much, they didn't let any stay in the refrigerator for more than about five hours. These are teenagers, mind you...they rearely like anything good for them...especially, if their parents make it for them.

[jaybird]

Gosh, haven't started drying the meat yet. I realized I needed some wire racks for the meat after my hubbie left for work. He came home early though, and just went to the store to get them. I may still dry the meat tonite...not sure. If it only takes 6 hours I'll be up until about 2am, which I usually am anyway. But if it takes 12 hours (the directions I'm following says it can take 6-12 hours for drying, what a big variance)....that would be done at 8am. I don't know if I want the oven on while we're sleeping. We'll see.
And yes, I know wild or grass-fed meat is best. I'll be starting to buy it in bulk from a local farmer next year (yeah!), but until then I take extra omega-3's to balance things out a bit.

[captxray]

:blush: You mean you can actually buy Omega-3s?! What a dullard I am! I didn't know that. :doah: Do you just go to the health food store, or what? How much do they cost? :confused:

Sometimes, I wonder about myself. I never even considered that!

[JenofWi]

Fish oil is high in Omega 3's and you can buy capsules at the health food store. They are supposed to be free of mercury.
You can also use flax seed - the fats are harder to assimilate though.

[jaybird]

Yeah, the omega-3's I get...you get 100 1000mg capsules for 4.99 ("Now" brand at the health food store)...it's in the form of mercury free fish oil. But I can't wait til next year when I get the grass fed beef and can get it from my meat.

[captxray]

Well, I eat tons of fish...sardines, herring, tuna, trout, salmon already...every day, in fact, I'm eating my lunch right now and I'm eating Kippers. Also eat flax seed on my salad every night. But, if I'm right, here, I understand that you can actually buy Omega-3 capsules (?)...not fish oil capsules. Is that right?

[jaybird]

They are omega-3 fish oil capsules.

My meat is drying right now. I'm just letting one piece cool off before I test to see if it's dry enough. Can't wait...my pemmican is almost here!

[PaleoDeano]

jaybird,

that's great that you are so close to having pemmican! so, when you went to the butcher, what did you ask to get the fat? Is the fat from beef only? And, what exactly are you going to do with it?

I really want to make this pemmican too.

what cut of meat did you use, jaybird?

let me know how it comes out!

[PaleoDeano]

i've been reading on the web about making pemmican... seems bison meat is good to use. often i have read about grinding meat (even double grinding) and spreading it out on a (cookie sheet?) in the oven to let it dry. does anyone know about this? i have a dehydrator that i wanted to use to make jerky... and then i guess you crush, or grind in a food processor, the jerky and turn it into powder? and then over low heat you put beef fat (wish i could get some bison fat - will try) and then you pour that in with the powdered jerky? add some dried? berries and then they become bars? i am pretty confused as to how to go about this. and the end result is like bars? are they like the consistency of say a candy bar? or what?
http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/confused.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

[alaskaman]

Well, in Stefansson's book which I have bragged about here, he says they used dif hardnesses of fats, soft fat was regarded as more "deluxe" so-called "fine pemmican' but did not keep as well. from his description of the regular, that it could be cut into wedges, perhaps fried, it sounds like pretty firm fat. So, like a bar, yes. It was put into rawhide bags, seams sealed with tallow. So, do we go to the trouble of doing that? or is shrink wrap or baggies or tupperware good enough? Have to be careful, sometimes modern substitutes behave differently, but we have freezers for longer term storage, yes? Bill

[jaybird]

well. i had no idea it would take so long to render fat! The directions I used said nothing about it. It's taken me a few hours to render the fat.

Paleodeano, I asked for suet. Suet I believe is specifically beef fat...especially from around the kidneys. But for pemmican you can use different types of fat...I have read pork fat isn't so good as it doesn't congeal. I've heard bone marrow fat is excellent for pemmican though I have no idea where to get bone marrow or how to make it that way. Someday I will try it though.

Well, my fat is cooling and soon I will have some pemmican. I will let you guys know how it is.

[huntress]

go to the butcher and ask for beef round bones cut. these are from the leg. The fat in them is different from the fat found in shank bones, I use both the pemmican is called sweet when made with this fat and is softer, to get firmer pemmican go for kidney fat(suet) and lobe fat found between the flank and the sirloin tip it is a solid piece of fat with a gland (remove)in the middle. the easy way to render is to chop fat and put bones into roast pan bake till fat is brown and crispy and the marrow has shrank away. Strain through a coffee filter to catch brown bits. Use or bake the fat again to make sure there is no moisture left. This is the fun part mix and match hard fat, soft fat or a mix of the two. For the meat use any except bear and pork and even they can be used but they have to be frozen for long time below 0degreef( to kill tric parasite) I say why take the chance don't use them. Dry in an oven over nite at lowest temp and prop door open or use a dehydrator, the oven holds the most meat. process
in a food processer till powder and add melted warm fat to it, shape 8x8 square pan lined with plastic chill the cut into bars(hard fat) or roll into balls and wrap(soft fat) As for the addition of fruit any dried fruit will do whats your taste, maybe chopped nuts or both. Remember the pemmican won't keep as long you are adding moisture with the fruit and nuts. you can adjust the fat for the season more fat for cold Brrrr winter, less for summer.


Let's make pemmican :yay:
Diane

[captxray]

:yum: Huntress! You are a book of information on Pemmican. I'm impressed. I just made it from that one recipe and ate it in the High Sierras. I am going to try some of the things you write about, here. I put walnuts and almonds and pumpkin seeds in mine with a few sesames sprinkled in for fun and crunchyness. I also put in some home-dried prune pieces and apple pieces. I didn't realize it wouldn't keep that long by doing that, but I ate it all within a two week period, so I guess it didn't matter. We packed ours in wax paper and wrapped it inside a paper bag, then put that bag inside a big plastic baggie to keep it from draining all over the inside of our packs. It worked pretty good...at least it didn't melt all over the inside of the packs. However, when it got pretty hot, it would melt. At night it would congeal, again. I found that by putting it deep inside my pack and in the middle of everything else, it would stay pretty cool. I didn't use rawhide with tallow. We did, however, go over Parker Pass...the same pass that the Mono and Yosemite Indians traveled over to trade with each other, and their food on the trail was Pemmican! Kind of neat, huh?

Okay, Jaybird...what is the verdict? Was it worth it?

[jaybird]

Well, my pemmican wasn't too bad for my first try I suppose. But, my husband was completed disgusted by it!
Everyone ignore the link I gave you above...at least about the oven temp of 200 degrees...that ended up cooking the meat instead of just drying it and my pemmican came out very gritty. And I think I added a tad too much fat which made it very rich and it dominated over the meat and dried fruit a little too much. Also, I only rendered the fat once. I have some rendered fat left that I'm keeping in the fridge and will render it again before using....good idea with the coffee filter. I am going to try the hard fat pemmican one more time before the bone marrow. So, just chuck the bones in a baking dish and bake in the oven? What temp? How long usually? And when I ask for the beef round bones cut...do I need to tell them a certain way to cut it?
Despite that fact it didn't turn out as good as I wanted, it was still totally worth it. I am ready to try it again and I know what I need to do to make it better. The stuff is definitely filling, you really don't need to eat much at once to satisfy your hunger. I had some for breakfast this morning on the go....I really can't wait to try this again so I can get it right!

[huntress]

for rendering the fat out the oven temp I use is 325 to 350 and bake for 1hr, for the bone the usual way they cut them is across 1 to 2 inches thick, easy to cut fingers when cutting leanth(sp) wise ouch. use the lowest possible temp on oven you just want it barely warm. the mix is about say 4 cups meat to 2.5 to 3 cups fat if you like it fatter add more you just need enough to bind the meat together. The voyagers that plied their trade here ate 1.5# a day to keep them going, in fresh meat they had to eat 8# to keep going, pemmican a very concentrated energy source. I hope this helps you out.

I love pemmican
Diane

[PaleoDeano]

thanxs Bill and Diane... and jaybird and captxray!

you guys sure know your stuff about pemmican!

i just hope i can get these bones... i am sure it will take much trial and error to render fat correctly...

i would like to get bison fat (grass-fed, naturally raised) if i can... will have to ask the meat processors about it.

what would be the best cut of bison meat to slice for jerky? (which is one step i need to do - in my dehydrator, right?).

[jaybird]

Wow, I just found out my mom has a dehydrator. While it may take longer, I think I am going to use it next time around. My mom offered to let me use it and wants me to make her some jerky and pemmican too!

[PaleoDeano]

well, i went and got some eye of round roast and sliced it as thin as i could. i then put it in three glass pans and a cookie sheet (on top of tin foil). i moved the two racks in my gas oven as high as they would go and put these pans and cookie sheet full of meat on the racks. i turned the oven as low as i could, which is about 170 degrees. i have never done this before, so i hope i am doing it correctly. captxray mentioned this method over using the dehydrator. i plan on using the dehydrator to dry some strawberries, blackberries, blueberries and red raspberries to put in the pemmican. neanderthin recommends using a food dehydrator over using an oven... and if using an oven, ray recommends having your oven at 90 degrees! the paleo diet book says to keep it at 140 degrees. the dehydrator goes to 155 degrees, and the manual says to be sure to mix in those nitrates! no thanx! http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/eek.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

good news... i went to my supermarket meat counter and asked about beef fat. they told me that once a week someone comes by and picks up two large (like 60 gallon) trash cans full of fat (sometimes more). they keep it refrigerated until it goes out. i was told that i needed to speak with the main manager and could do that tomorrow. hopefully i will be able to get some fat from them. i plan to try and render it in the oven. i have no clue what i am doing here... so any advice would be greatly appreciated!
http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/confused.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

am trying to move closer to having some pemmican in hand very soon...

wish me luck... and i will keep you all posted.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/bighug.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

[PaleoDeano]

well, i left the meat overnight in the oven (on lowest i could get it and door propped open). the meat was dry after a little over 8 hours, but it was also a bit dark on the top (sort of cooked perhaps?). jaybird, you said your meat was that way... was it really brittle?, cuz mine is... not really chewy... will this meat still work for making the pemmican?

next time i may just use the dehydrator... and use bison meat

now, i need to get some fat from the butcher and try my hand at rendering fat.
:cool:

[PaleoDeano]

well, i was able to get quite a bit of fat from the grocery store meat counter, and now am wondering what the best method to render the fat might be. i have read that cutting it into thin slices and putting in the oven is one way. i have seen pictures of whole slabs put in skillets over very low heat (i think is what they said). does anyone have any advice for me? what temp should i have it on in the oven? any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanx!

[jaybird]

PaleoDeano...yeah, in the oven mine got kind of dark and crispy instead of chewy. So my first batch of pemmican wasn't quite pallitable, as it was like there was sand in my pemmican.
I just made my second batch today (dehydrated late into the night). I used my mother's dehydrator and I kept checking the jerky. Some pieces are done before others if you're like me and can't slice them all the exact same size. Anyway, I still ate the "sandy" jerky cause I didn't want to waste it, but the second batch today was sooooo good! The dried fruit I used was dried currants. I got about a pound of pemmican....I ate it all today! That's all I've been eating today. I really could live on this stuff! Now that I've got the basics down, I think I will get more fat at the meat counter and render a whole bunch at once and keep it in the fridge for my pemmican, because I think this will now be a regular part of my menu. I rendered the fat on very low heat on the stove top, it took a few hours.

[Signey]

When I was making soap a few years back, I spoke with an older lady about rendering fat. She cautioned me that I should be very careful and that if I could, I should render the fat outside. Apparently it is quite flammable. I went ahead and did it inside anyway and didn't have a problem. I do think that folk should be aware that this is not a project you can walk away from. You need to be there with it and it might not be a bad idea to have a chemical fire extinguisher at hand.
I wonder if a crockpot set on high would render fat. It would be a lower heat and there wouldn't be any element that could start a fire. I have used them for melting parrafin for this reason and felt very safe. It is something that would be worth experimenting with.
Just some thoughts. :)

[PaleoDeano]

Jaybird,

That is great that the dehydrator did the trick. I will definitely use that method next time, and will use bison meat. What cut of meat did you use? And how many hours did it take before the first strips were done?

To get a pound of pemmican, how many cups of rendered fat did you use?

People have been known to live on nothing but pemmican for a long time. It truly is a complete nutritional food.

I am getting ready to get another half a bison. I am going to ask the processors to give me lots of slabs of fat. I guess I should ask for suet? I plan on making loads of pemmican to keep in my freezer and eat all winter. What a great snack... probably the healthiest and most nutritious snack you could ever eat! http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/yum.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)


Signey,

Thanks so much for the warnings about fire! That idea about the crockpot sounds like it might be worth trying. I may try it with a small amount of fat to see what happens. I will also more than likely try the oven method. I just wonder if I can keep the temp low enough. Perhaps with the door propped open? I know that one web site said if you are going to do it over a gas stove top, to use a flame diffuser to further reduce the flame. That I don't have, so may want to just use the crock pot on low, or try it out in the oven. I know Diane said to bake in oven at 325 for 1 hour. I will try that. But, I will try a bit on the stove and in the crockpot. I'll let you all know how it comes out. I can't wait to get the bison fat. Then I can make "real" pemmican!
http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/yelclap.gif (http://forum.lowcarber.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)

[jaybird]

PaleoDeano, I used beef eye of round steaks for my pemmican. In the dehydrator many of the strips were done within 5 hours. My cutting job wasn't great so some pieces were too thick and took a few hours longer. Next time I will be more careful and take my time to cut evenly all the pieces fairly thin (I'd say about 1/8 inch) so they all dry in about 5 hours. I also highly recommend marinating the already sliced meat overnight in spices of your choice. I envy you with your healthy bison meat! Next year I at least will have some grass-fed beef. Well, let us know how you do on your pemmican, and good eating! I think I will be doing the same...making batches and batches of the stuff and keep in my freezer. Being a mommy of an 8 month old baby (plus I babysit a 1 1/2 year old) this is going to ultimately help me stay on a healthy diet as sometimes it is really hard for me to cook three or more times a day.

[jaybird]

Oh yeah, for the amounts. I admit I wasn't really measuring things too well! But the recipe I ended up using just says to add just enough fat to moisten the dried meat and fruit. The first batch I did add too much fat and it was very rich with the fatty taste way overpowering everything else. The second batch I add JUST enough to moisten and it was delicious. My mouth waters thinking of it....some meat is in the freezer now to partially freeze so I can slice and marinate tonite and make the pemmican tomorrow. I still have some rendered fat left in the fridge.

[PaleoDeano]

jaybird,

thanks for the tips!

i am going to render the fat and dry the fruit and then try mixing with the meat i have. this is all experimental until i get the bison fat & meat in a couple weeks. then i will definitely use the dehydrator to prepare the meat. why do you recommend spicing the meat?... for the jerky? if you just use it for pemmican, doesn't the fruit give it the flavor it needs? and wouldn't the spices of the meat taste weird with the taste of the fruit? i am planning on using blueberries, blackberries, cherries, strawberries, red raspberries.

take care, and I'll let you all know how this turns out.

when you cook, you should try cooking a whole bunch of food at once, then you don't have to cook for a while... that has worked great for me.

[captxray]

While Ray says to use the dehydrator, it is kind of dangerous because we are using "processed meat." He uses elk and deer and wild meats that he processes, himself, and I think when using the stuff we get in the store, there is a great chance of getting bad bacteria, along with the meat...because it has been handled and left out, and stuff like that...When you get it at the store, you don't really know what you're dealing with. Obviously, you have to get to a happy medium. I wouldn't worry about the meat being too brittle, if you're just making pemmican. That's good! Now, you need to put it in the blender or food processor and grind it to powder...then, you mix that in with the rendered fat, and VOILA! PEMMICAN! As far as jerky, well that's another story and you have to keep a watchful eye on it, and get it out of the drying mode as soon as it reaches a ceratin consistency. I found making jerky a bit of a chore in my modern, hell-bent-for-leather-world. I used a weekend when I wasn't working. I kept an eye on all day long, as i read a book. Even then, some pieces got too dry...so, I used them in my pemmican. I put walnuts, almonds and pumpkin seeds in it, along with home-dried Marrion Berries and Raspberries and even a few home-dried plum pieces. But, the fruit makes it muchmore perishable...I found that out from Alaskaman

[PaleoDeano]

captxray,

i agree with what you say. it was from what you had said in an earlier post that got me to think twice about using the dehydrator, and instead using the oven. but that was with beef i got at the supermarket. i am only planning to use the dehydrator on naturally raised bison meat that i get fresh from a farm. do you still think this is a bad idea? i think if it is dehydrated at 155 degrees for long enough to become chewy, it should not be a problem... but, like you, i would never trust beef from the store done this way.

i think the reason jaybird and i were thinking the meat was not good for pemmican was because, as she said, it made the pemmican taste sort of "gritty"... which i can see why, because, like her meat, i had the same result of getting it a bit too done, a bit blackened on top. it was hard for both of us to keep the temp down low enough using the oven. i know that even though the door was propped open and the meat was on the highest racks, and the oven turned as low as possible, the heat still got up to about 200 degrees. one website said that was fine, and it was fine if the meat was a bit dark, but i still think the way jaybird did it the next time around, by using a dehydrator, made the meat come out much better... plus it can be used for jerky too. she must trust the beef she got at the store. personally, i am with you. i would only trust the bison i get from the natural farm, when using a dehydrator. but, then again, i don't really trust ANY grain-fed, commercially raised animals for any type of consumption... the things they do during the "raising" and processing of these animals is quite disgusting (both for the animals, and the humans that consume them). so, in that respect, i am trying to only eat naturally raised animals anyway... and am slowly getting to that point.

[jaybird]

Well, I know it's not the best meat but I do consider it better than none until I get my grass fed beef next year. Again, PaleoDeano I am envious of your bison meat...I tried wild bison meat a few years back and it was amazing.

[huntress]

Last nite we had a fat feast, I was rendering down beef fat in the oven and after awhile the scent of roasting fat filled the house. My two young adults came sniffing whats to eat, The fat was ready so we started to eat the cracklings, the browned crispy bits man that was sooo good. I got about 6 cups of pure white hard fat and about 4 cups of cracklings, now to get my deer meat dried. The funny part is my kids normaly say eeew yuk to some like that not come around and start eatting it. Love my fat will eat pieces raw nice flavor little chewy find you can't eat much tho.

My boy has really bad acne does anyone know if lcing will help that? He is getting to the I will try anything point. My opening to strike mmmmwhaaaahaaha.( evil laugh) :lol:

Diane

[PaleoDeano]

lcing will definitely take care of acne! the more sugar you eat the worse it gets. the combo of fat and sugar will really make it bad. the best course of action is to eat high fat & good protein (preferably from animals), and low low carb!

[PaleoDeano]

well, i have been dehydrating fruit... my red raspberries were first to get done, then my blueberries soon after. strawberries took quite a bit longer. now if the cherries and (especially) the blackberries would ever get done! they have been going for over 40 hours now! hopefully they will be done by tonight. all of these i can put with the dry meat to turn both to powder (as one website suggested). i've also got dried dates and walnuts and almonds and pecans. does anyone know if these would be good to use for pemmican? does anyone think it would be better to put the dried fruit (and any nuts) in after grinding the meat in a food processor (or with the meat)?

i spoke with the guy who i get bison from. he is going to be taking in a 2-year old bull on November 4th. i am getting half of that. in the meantime, this week he has an older animal going in, and since they have more fat, he said he would get some fat off of this animal for me. he also said the best meat to use for jerky is 'the round'. and he said he would get me some of that as well. i spoke with the meat processor, and he said i might end up with close to 10 lbs of fat! that would be great! so, in a couple weeks i can make lots of pemmican from grass-fed, naturally raised bison!

[PaleoDeano]

Well... after over two YEARS!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: ... I am FINALLY ready to make some pemmican!!!

I have been rendering fat on the stove top, in a large stainless steel skillet. It has been a few hours that the pound of bison back fat pieces have been on the lowest flame I could set the burner on my gas stove. After re-reading this entire thread, and the "lard" thread, and other info on the web, I was warned to keep the flame as low as possible. QUESTIONS. I have not seen the fat bubble at all, and don't see any steam coming off of it. It has been several hours (like 4) since I started it. The fat looks really good... liquid gold! The cracklins are getting smaller and "harder" looking all the time, and I am about ready to quit with the rendering. Is this normal? Have I got all the water out of the fat? I have been reading about "double rendering"... so what is the difference if I render this again tomorrow, or just render longer tonight?

The meat. I have been pulverizing the dried meat (from a couple years ago) into fine powder, using an old coffee/spice grinder. I am ready to add some dried berries and grind them up as well. Was thinking of adding some trail mix, which has lots of nuts and raisins. Should I grind this trail mix with the coffee grinder, or just put it in the pemmican as is?

Patiently waiting for your informed responses... I DON'T want to wait another 2 years to have pemmican!!! I have never made it before and have never even seen it before! Please help out this novice, would anyone? Thanks!

[TBoneMitch]

Deano,

same here, the cracklings getting smaller and harder is normal.

What I usually do is filter the fat through a sieve in order to obtain a purer fat, while taking out the cracklings.

It is indeed a good idea to put the flame on the lowest heat possible, because you really can «burn» (smoke) the fat, and it doesn't taste good afterwards, not to mention that it probably becomes damaged.

I don't know about putting trail mix, etc in it, when I had done it it was plain. But I don't see how it can be bad to do that. It may affect the shelf life of your pemmican, though I am not sure at all.

Pemmican looks like a type of «brownie», but definitely doesn't taste like it.

It tastes a bit like dried fatty roast beef. It is very fatty.

The recipe I refered to earlier, when I burnt (smoked) the suet tastes like rubber...definitely not pleasant.

But well done, it tastes pretty good. However, it is a very neutral taste (I did not put any spices, salt, etc in it).

Very interesting food though!

[PaleoDeano]

Thanks for contributing this info, TBoneMitch!

Last night I took from my freezer dried berries (blueberries, blackberries, cherries, strawberries, and red raspberries) that I dehydrated a couple years ago. They were very hard (frozen). I put them in my old coffee grinder and ground them down to fine powder. I continued grinding my dried bison (that I dried using a dehydrator a couple years ago... it was the round, which I was told made the best jerky/pemmican). I then mixed all of this stuff together and continued grinding into a very fine powder. The native americans called this "beat meat", and I call mine "sweet beat meat", cuz with those mixed berries in there it makes the whole lot (about 8 - 10 cups) smell SO GOOD!!! It is now the consistency of white flour!... or the finest espresso! :)

While grinding and mixing this wonderful "sweet beat meat", I continued rendering the fat. After nearly 6 or 7 hours it seemed as though nothing more was going to happen. Mind you, this stuff never smoked or burned, but I was wondering if it needed to go that long (it was only a pound of fat) or if there is any advantage/disadvantage to doing it this long (once again, I never saw it bubble or anything, and am still wondering about getting out all the moisture from the liquid). I read on the internet that the longest shelf life for pemmican is if you pulverize meat and berries into a powder, and if you "double render" the fat, to remove all the moisture. It is moisture that causes the pemmican to go bad over time. I had set my sights on making the most "authentic", long lasting pemmican, and so will probably avoid the trail mix on this first batch. I have read on the internet recipes that include all sorts of nuts, honey, etc. .... but, I have also read about the most traditional containing only dried meat and berries, ground to a fine powder (or I guess they were beaten with rocks down to that fine powder!) :)

Tonight I plan to mix some of this powder with some "liquid gold", as I call it, (rendered bison back fat), and stir it up and then spread it into a rectangular glass baking dish, using wax paper to press it down. Should I put wax paper into the dish first, and sandwich this pemmican between two sheets of wax paper, or what? Anyone, please let me know. I will only be trying a small amount, cuz I don't want to waste this powdered meat (it took SO long to get it to that state!). How much should I use (in other words, how thick should the spread be?). And, what is the "proper" ratio of fat to meat/berry mix?

Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread. This will be a good source for anyone interested in making this very paleo food!

[Heineken26]

Since it is "The" pemmican thread,i'll post it here !

I'm actually trying to do some with chest parts of beef..They are in the oven since 1h15 and can't wait :thup: !

The oven is set at the minimum (just a bit before 200F),a hole at one of the round is open and the door is opened just one bit to let some air go out..I've cut the piece around 1/8 inch thin or just 1/4 for the thickest and put them of a cookies grill with a cookie plate just under :) .

Next time,i'll ask to the butcher to cut it thin with his meat slicer or will follow to the advice to froze a bit the meat for a easier cutting :o .

The pieces seem to already begin to dry somewhat,he he :D ! I didn't made too much since it is only a small test at drying meat,not much more than 200 grams of fresh meat,so i guess i'll get just 50grams of dry meat out of it..

Will post later for the results :agree: !

[PaleoDeano]

If you have an old coffee grinder, you can pulverize this dry meat into a fine powder... dry some berries first so you can pulverize them as well, and when you mix it all together is smells heavenly! I have about 10 cups of this very fine powder "sweet beat meat"... jut waiting for the bone to come in, so I can get bison bone marrow fat for the pemmican! Can't wait!

[Heineken26]

We are at 4 hours of drying,so far,the meat is still somewhat red but seem to be dry..the meat can still be bend without breacking,so i guess it is not dryed enough...

EDIT : 7 hours of drying,all the pieces are brown,no more red..All seem crispy without cracking..

Have stopped the oven and tasted a small chunck without swallowing..i feel uneasy and the taste is a bit weird,my borther told me it tasted like cardboard :lol: ..

EDIT 2 : Well,from my younger brother who like to eat jerky,my dryed meat seem to be too dryed..maybe even cooked (no wonder since it is a oven that i'm using).. The dried meat smell a bit funny..

[PaleoDeano]

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me... in fact, if you read back through this thread, I think I (and some others) reported this experience. I then went out and got a dehydrator. I was able to dry meat and 5 different kinds of berries using it (boy, my kitchen smelled like HEAVEN with all those different berries drying over the course of 2 or 3 days!). I don't remember what I did with that meat from the oven... but, it was round steak from the local butcher at the grocery store (factory farmed cow meat). I ended up getting some from bison, from the processor I use to butcher and process bison. I sliced that stuff real thin (when it was partially frozen) and put it on the dehydrator. It came out wonderful. That is what is ground down to powder (more fine than powdered sugar) in my freezer right now (with all those wonderful berries ground into it too). That mix is just waiting for bison leg bones! As I recall, the oven method cooked my meat, as you report. It is because it is impossible to get the oven at a low enough temperature. You should try and find a dehydrator. They are worth it, and you will need one to dry an assortment of berries for pemmican. If you plan to make pemmican a lot, you will need a dehydrator!

[Heineken26]

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me... in fact, if you read back through this thread, I think I (and some others) reported this experience. I then went out and got a dehydrator. I was able to dry meat and 5 different kinds of berries using it (boy, my kitchen smelled like HEAVEN with all those different berries drying over the course of 2 or 3 days!). I don't remember what I did with that meat from the oven... but, it was round steak from the local butcher at the grocery store (factory farmed cow meat). I ended up getting some from bison, from the processor I use to butcher and process bison. I sliced that stuff real thin (when it was partially frozen) and put it on the dehydrator. It came out wonderful. That is what is ground down to powder (more fine than powdered sugar) in my freezer right now (with all those wonderful berries ground into it too). That mix is just waiting for bison leg bones! As I recall, the oven method cooked my meat, as you report. It is because it is impossible to get the oven at a low enough temperature. You should try and find a dehydrator. They are worth it, and you will need one to dry an assortment of berries for pemmican. If you plan to make pemmican a lot, you will need a dehydrator!

Thx a lot for your help ;) ..

Yeah,i feel that a dehydrator would be best..i tryed to make a small batch to see if i like pemmican before investing some hundred canadian dollars !

Going outside and pay 300-350$CA for a dehydrator i'm not sure i will use at full capacity scare me a bit :o ..

I'll be perfectly honest..the health side of pemmican is great,but was only discovered after match : i want to make pemmican because i want to build a long lasting food emergency supply..since i'm all for "eat what you store,store what you eat" , i want to make LOT of it..enough to last me 3 months if i need to just eat pemmican !

Without being the "run for the hills" hardcore survivalist,i'm one who follow the " Hope for the best,prepare for the worst" moto ..another fun side of having pemmican on hand is that you can decide to go do some camping for 2 weeks without much preperations outers than taking your lightweight camping (aka,bug out kit) gear and take 5 kg of pemmican out of the pantry :D !

In fact,i just need to be totally convinced to buy a dehydrator with goods reasons others than just making pemmican :p ..

[Gemmafafen]

hey paleodeano did u make it yet?
Jaybird said the second time she made it she added enough fat to "moisten the ground up meat and berries".

I have just bought Neanderthin so I have all of this to go. My uncle hunts and does all the butchering himself, so I do have access to wild meat. I think it is only deer though. I like venison, but I'd like to try Bison (whatever that is), although I don't think they are native to the lil' G.British Island I inhabit.

Does anybody wanna take a picture and post it of their pammican? I'd love to see what it looks like. Do u just slice bits off and eat it like that, like chorizo sausage or do u need to cook it again?

[lillylou]

There is a recipe for pemmican in Nourishing Traditions Page 525 of the 2nd edition.

[PaleoDeano]

hey paleodeano did u make it yet?
Jaybird said the second time she made it she added enough fat to "moisten the ground up meat and berries".

I have just bought Neanderthin so I have all of this to go. My uncle hunts and does all the butchering himself, so I do have access to wild meat. I think it is only deer though. I like venison, but I'd like to try Bison (whatever that is), although I don't think they are native to the lil' G.British Island I inhabit.

Does anybody wanna take a picture and post it of their pammican? I'd love to see what it looks like. Do u just slice bits off and eat it like that, like chorizo sausage or do u need to cook it again?I am waiting on one of my meat processors to get in some bison to butcher. He is going to save me the kidney suet (for making more tallow), and the large leg bones (so I can crack them open and get the bone marrow out - that is the best fat for pemmican). Bison is sometimes (incorrectly) called Buffalo. There were millions and millions of them roaming all over the north american continent, until us white folk dropped in to set up permanent housing. Species extinction and genocide followed rather quickly! Thank god they (barely) saved the bison, and have been bringing it back slowly over the last few decades. There are lots of bison farms around where I live. I would like to see the whole western half of Kansas turned back over to wild herds! Right now it is only being used by large corporations to grow a bunch of wheat! :(

[Heineken26]

Can someone tell me how dryed beef should smell !?

[PaleoDeano]

Can someone tell me how dryed beef should smell !?My bison round that I dried in the dehydrator smelled rather plain. I dried it totally plain, not like people make jerky. It was bland smelling and tasting. BUT, when I ground it down to a super fine powder using a coffee grinder, AND when I ground all the different dried berries down to fine powder, and then mixed all this together... it smells WONDERFUL! I cannot WAIT to get that bison bone marrow to complete this pemmican. I will have quite a bit of it, but want to make sure I do it as correctly as I can. Don't want any of this work to go to waste!

BTW, the cow meat I dried on cookie sheets in the oven smelled a little burned and I ended up getting rid of it. It wasn't that much. I now have about 10-12 cups of finely powdered bison meat/berries. How much pemmican will this make?... and how do I make it, so it will turn out really good? Please let me hear suggestions! THANKS! I have never even seen pemmican before!

[jaybird]

So, I ventured to make some pemmican two weeks ago. I made beef pemmican and I made some chicken/coconut oil pemmican.

I did it in the oven on warm....it is probably about 150 degrees at that setting and I also kept the door open about a foot wide opening. I checked it very often and different pieces were done at different times...some got eaten along the way :) I used ground meat....i just can't afford more expensive cuts at this point. Good quality grass fed from an Amish farm though. And the chicken was organic.

I buy tallow from the farmer as well, already rendered. So it was a simple process of just melting the tallow and adding it. I took the jerky and processed in my food processor, added small amount of dried blueberries and cranberries, and small amount of raw honey (melted with the tallow). For the chicken I did the same, mixed with coconut oil instead of tallow. What I did is I divided it up into paper muffin cups and stuck it in the freezer to harden up quickly. I think next time I will wrap it up in wax paper protien bar style.

PaleoDeano....that sounds awesome with the bison marrow. Let us know how that is. I've yet to use marrow.

Gemmafafen, yes add enough to moisten it well so that will it hardens it will hold together well. Once batch I made I didnt add enough and it fell apart easily when I ate it. If you add enough it holds together well.

Okay...so I will make some more pemmican soon. I am in love with the stuff. It just goes fast...when I have it it's all I want to eat. I will take pictures this time too and post them.

[Wolfram]

Has anyone tried the US Wellness Meats (http://www.grasslandbeef.com/StoreFront.bok) pemmican? It's sort of expensive, but made with grass-fed beef and grass-fed tallow and you can get it either with or without cherries and honey added. It comes in 2.5lb "tubs" for around $35, but that does last awhile and it sure saves a lot of time in the kitchen.

[Nancy LC]

How do you eat pemmican? Like beef jerkey? Is it tough to chew? I've got TMJ which was made hugely worse by chewing on jerkey. Ow!

[Wolfram]

You eat pemmican with a spoon if you get it in the tubs. It melts in your mouth so no sore jaws.

[Nancy LC]

Sounds promising! Ok, last dumb question: Does it taste good?

[Wolfram]

It has a somewhat strange mouth feel to me, I guess because it has so much fat, but the stuff I get from US Wellness meats tastes great. This is my third day of eating pemmican only to try and kick start weight loss. I plan to go back to my "normal" eating tomorrow, but will still be eating the pemmican for some meals.

[Nancy LC]

Let me know how it works for weight loss!

[alisbabe]

I wish I knew how to tell when it was safely cured, wouldn't want to get the mollygrobbles out on the trail. I will try to research this, there are some books on curing meats, or perhaps some of you already know.

I just bought The River Cottage Meat Book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0340826355/qid=1136768156/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0341458-0011123?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) and it has a whole section on curing meat and making your own sausages.

[Wolfram]

Let me know how it works for weight loss!

My pemmican experiment is over and I'm down four pounds from Friday to Monday. I'm sure a lot of that is water, but it was nice to see. I used a ketostix this morning and don't think I've ever seen that dark of a shade of pink. Being in deep ketosis might be the reason I didn't even want to look at another spoon of pemmican after lunch today. I ate a bit for breakfast and some for lunch but gave the rest I'd portioned out to the dog. Ugh. It's good but enough is enough; I'm ready for something else for supper (although I'm not at all hungry).

[Nancy LC]

Good job! Now is that all you ate for 5 days?

[Wolfram]

Good job! Now is that all you ate for 5 days?

No, only three and a half days and I also had some cream in coffee those days.

BTW, hubby said he heated his pemmican and stirred in some seasonings and said it was way better than eating it cold or at room temp. Guess I'll have to try that next time.

[sunrise02]

Hello Everyone, I am fascinated by the previous postings about 'pemmican.' Sounds awesome! I found this thread while doing a "hiking" search. It seems you folks would be the ones to ask---

What LC foods can I take on a three week hike??

I am not an "ultra-lighter" but do want to keep my pack pretty light. I hiked the Appalachian Trail (Georgia to Maine) and ate mostly healthy foods but not low carb. Protein foods tend to be quite heavy and perishable.

ANy and all suggestions would be so helpful!!

Thanks!

Sunrise

[PaleoDeano]

Jerky, pemmican, even some trail mixes if you make them carefully.

[spiderdust]

I'm so glad to find this thread! This might solve my problems for what to take with me to eat during my class breaks!

[theBear]

Interesting.

Hello, I recognise some names here from my thread on the carnivous diet.

I HAVE made jerky and pemmican for 47 years. I eat nothing but meat.

I OFFER the correct way to prepare true pemmican, based on the principles developed by the Native American plains people. It has been done this way for countless generations.

WE WILL use beef. You can use any red meat, however beef is cheap, easily available, dries well and yields a tasty result.

I RECOMMEND bottom round, with very little marbling- marbling makes drying slower, but while it may taste better as a partially dried, short lived and leathery jerky, it is counterproductive for making fully-dried jerky for pemmican.

THE RULE for drying jerky is use only very FRESH NEVER FROZEN MEAT.

CUT into 1/8' slices/strips, ADD NOTHING.

DRAPE over rack, in oven with door ajar.

PLACE a light bulb in the bottom and connect through a thermostat.

DRY only at precisely 40C (104F) no more, no less. Dry untill dark in colour and very brittle/friable.

DO NOT use marrow fat, it spoils very quickly and will go rancid. If you use 'cod fat', that is, suet from the outside of the carcass it will yield a softer and perhaps nicer flavoured pemmican, but the hard 'kidney suet' from around the kidneys will give a firmer and much better keeping pemmican.

RENDER the suet into tallow in 3/4 in slices on a rack in a pan in the oven at NO MORE than 250F. A higher temperature gives the tallow a burnt smell and taste and discolours the fat, lower take forever and may not properly dry out the tallow.

PROPER, long keeping pemmican is dried lean and fat, 50/50 by WEIGHT. No berries or additives of any kind should be used, as they will cause rapid spoilage and are inappropriate if you are on a zero carb or very low carb diet.

WEIGH a portion of the crispy-crunchy totally dried jerky.

POWDER the jerky thoroughly. It will crumble to a powder very easily if it has been properly and thoroughly dried. It is best to process the jerky while still warm from drying to make sure it is very dry.

COOL the rendered liquid tallow to warm but not uncomfortably warm to your skin.

WEIGH AND POUR an equal weight of the warm liquid tallow onto the dry powdered jerky, mix and compress into a firm greasy mass- excluding all air.

PACK the fresh, soft pemmican into a dry container- fill until all air is excluded and seal tightly against moisture. You can keep it at room temperature for up to 30 years if it has been made with kidney suet/tallow. Perhaps less if from cod suet. I doubt anyone will be able to store it long enough to be a problem anyway, if you like it, unless you have the ambition to make a lot of it.

TO EAT: Warm some water, cut off a lump of pemmican and mash it in the water until you have a warm gruel. It is very greasy and hard to eat dry, but is very tasty as a gruel. To keep all the nutrients, it must never have been subjected to a temperature above 40C/104F. It will feed you as a single food, with no deficiencies in nutrition for a year or more, it even prevents scurvy.

JERKY requires adding fat, so unless you can add fat from anopther source, it is not good to eat it straight for very long without fat. Alone, lean jerky soon causes dysentery and debilitation from protein poisoning ('rabbit starvation').

[Meg_S]

IThere were millions and millions of them roaming all over the north american continent, until us white folk dropped in to set up permanent housing. Species extinction and genocide followed rather quickly!

Funny to read this today. I'm in Germany and my neighbours are a wonderful couple in their late 60s, last week they went back to ttheir elementary school and did a little lecture. One of the children who had grown up and gone to school in the US for part of her life adamantly disagreed with something they said and insisted the the colonizing of North America did not involve much interaction between the white and the reds, some deals, some treaties etc. and a few skirmishes. This is what she was taught in her US school. :help: They didn't want to argue with her, but had a quiet word with the teacher afterward, suggesting that maybe some accurate history was in order.

[Bandito]

The introduction of disease is what killed a vast majority of the natives here. A white man would travel away from his white settlement to establish trade with the natives, innoculating them with diseases that they had never been exposed to. They would then take it back to their tribes and neighboring tribes to the west.

As the white settlers developed growing pains, they expanded west only to find that the majority of the population had been cleared for them. Think of a devastation akin to the plague. The vast majority of people had no interaction with the natives. White settlers inturpreted this as their go ahead for "manifest destiny". The few tribes that remained/survived were treated cruley/starved out/moved/killed/tortured/ect because of the greed for gold and other natural resources.

So in a way, I can see why the student felt the way they did. Millions of native americans were not killed directly from the hands of white settlers, rather from the illnesses from the white man. (not that makes it any less horrible)

This is what I was taught this in school along side of the atrocities which white man inflicted upon the remaining native american peoples. The exploitation of the native americans will always be a real tradgedy.

[unitydkn]

AB on Good eats has a good show on making jerky..

[unitydkn]

:) :) :) BEAR:) :) :)

how much would you sell 10 lb for???
busy,busy life working and homeschooling and all that...............

[PaleoDeano]

:) :) :) BEAR:) :) :)

how much would you sell 10 lb for???
busy,busy life working and homeschooling and all that...............FYI... any meat processor will make jerky for you... out of bison or beef or whatever. Just make sure to tell them that you don't want salt in it (if, for instance, you did not). That is the longest/hardest part. Then, you just need to grind the jerky and add the liquid (rendered) fat.

[theBear]

Let's see- raw meat is ( I have no idea what it costs for bottom round where you are) let's say $ 10/lb. It takes six or seven lbs to make one lb jerky, so that is - $70/lb of jerky in material costs, the work to prepare is worth at least $25 for drying 35 lbs meat, and the cost of energy at least another few, suet at $1/lb or more, and you will need more than 5lbs, so the total would have to be around $375 min, but $400 would be more realistic, of course any business would need to charge at least $750 to $800/10 lbs to provide a profit. Do you mean that you are not willing to do this simple home kitchen task, but are willing to pay ~$40 or $80 a pound for something which could only feed you as a sole food for about a little more than a week? maybe 10-11 days? Unless the meat was bought at a very good wholesale price, and you have professional rotary slicers and a large thermostatically controlled drying box, it is just not practical as a business, and of course the FDA REQUIRES that nutrients all dried meat products be ruined by the compulsory treatment with nitrated/nitrited/salted brine and so forth.

[theBear]

Jerky when properly dry will powder in your fingers. All commercial 'food processors' in the US are forbidden by law to sell any dried or otherwise processed meat product which does not contain a specified content of salt, nitrate and nitrite. If they did so and you became sick from spoilage, they would lose their license and the owners would face fines and/or jail time. Trust me on this- I have been there, done that with processors for many year and in many places around the country. In addition, the control of temperature during drying is extremely critical in producing a proper, full-nutrient jerky, and no professional food processor is likely to be able to maintain such fine control of a process they are basically unfamiliar with. Virtually all will 'cook' the jerky like all the examples of commercial jerkies I have investigated. It is too bad, but that is the situation with modern bureaucratic government and business. It is even more controlled here in Oz due to some recent food poisoning events due salami-type products.

[PaleoDeano]

Bear,

You are absolutely correct on these points about meat processors. Well, at least you could get the meat processor to thin slice the round for you. That is something that will save you a lot of time. Then, you can just lay the slices out in oven/dehydrator to dry. Bear, do you see any problems with doing it this way? This would save a lot of time. I sliced round to dry, and it did take a long time doing it by hand.

[MercyD]

I love homemade pemmican and just stopped by to see what revived this thread. Thanks Bear for some confirmation of my own personal preferences...I don't require it, but it is nice to have occasionally. Many people think the way I do things is a little unusual, to say the least.

I make my homemade pemmican very similar to what Bear shared. I make it in a dehydrator, but I like it best when jerky is dried hard and slow I leave it set on the 100 degree mark (F) a little higher. (close to Bear's stated temperature..though not exact) Round Steak/Roast is my favorite to use. But I have used other cuts when I find something that isn't too marbled. I haven't developed a source of good suet or beef fat, currently I save all my fat trimmings and render that for my fat source...but am looking into upgrading as I live in Cow Country ;)

I recently discovered that a great way to eat it/snack it at work is to run hot water from our coffee machine..drop in a spoon or two of pemmican, stir and eat...anything from gruel consistency to soup broth. I don't spice any jerky I'm using for pemmican, although I will sometimes add spice when I am going to eat it (to the water or pan). I also like pemmican heated up without water in a skillet until the fat is just melted (use low heat).

I'm really new to LC (off and on since last September...consistent LC since January) and even newer to a very low-carb WOE...been primarily Meat, Eggs & Dairy since mid February. But I just thought I'd share my pemmican story

[theBear]

Whoa, only slice the meat immediately before hanging to dry- otherwise the jerky will not keep well due to bacterial contamination from exposing the cut surfaces to the air. I always just used a nice sharp knife and had no problems (learn how to use a stone or diamond hand-lap keep your knives razor-sharp, Japanese knives are excellent). If you are going to do much of this processing a purpose built drying box and a deli-style rotary slicer are a very reasonable investment. Slicers sometimes can be found used at good prices from commercial kitchen-supply dealers. A nice new one here in Oz sells for A$800- quite a reasonable investment considering the overall high cost of making jerky. This kind of slicer has sharpening stones built-in and the machine is great for making steak tartare and deli-style super thin slices of cheese, etc. Cheese bought in rounds can be had from food wholesalers at significant savings over market prices. Cheese will keep very well (in fact it will improve) held at temperature of 50-54F (10-12C) a temperature which can be easily achieved with a small air conditioner in an insulated box.

100F is a bit low, and may encourage bacterial growth- think about the fever your body develops to kill off invading bacteria- usually it rises to at least 104F.

[Max Thunde]

It takes six or seven lbs to make one lb jerky.

Woah! 6 pounds of meat has a good deal over 1 pound in protein alone. 4-5 pounds to make 1 lb jerky would be more realistic. 4 pounds of eye of round is 390g protein, +18g of ash, that's 408 grams, pretty close to 1 pound, and that doesn't even include the unavoidable fat within the meat.

[Heidihi]

bump!

what a great thread..I am so glad I found it especially for this time of year..when feeling nesty...

..is anyone making pemmican now?

I have a question please
why not add spices or even salt or any kind of simple marinade drying meat you use in this and make it even more fun to eat? Would this be anti peleo?
salting and spicing meat before drying or smoking helps preserve it and if you do it yourself you dont have to use nitrates ...

I have made pemmican in very traditional methods and enjoyed the heck out of it..but I like things to hit the taste buds and make me feel happy that way too!

no matter where on earth people came from there were herbs and spices I am sure were ..yes?

I tell you I am having a blast preparing the ingredients to make what I think is going to be sock rocking pemmican!



so here is what I am working on now

I am making a Morrocan seasoned lamb jerky now I plan on pairing with dried sour cherries..dried apricots and walnuts ... using rendered lamb fat
would this be a Paleo pemmican you think? because it is seriously going to have outstanding flavor and be easily transported for some up coming mushroom hunting adventures :)

second pemmican
a mesquite smoked red chile beef jerky mixed with
dried peaches and pecans with rendered suet

next batch is going to be garam masala I have just ordered a goat from a local Halal butcher so I will use part of that that to make this

I believe in the healing power of herbs and spices

I do have to say I grind my own from whole seeds and yes mostly use a mortar and pestal because cooking is my passion I like things that take a lot of time and effort to prepare..but in a pinch I have used an electric coffee grinder..I do my own mixes to avoid anything hidden in premixed curry spices ect ..and I can assure freshness and control the flavors that way...

I have not made pemmican in years!
I am stoked..it really is great snack and travel food ...portable lunch ..however I could not subsist on it only ..I like fresh foods way too much for that .

[Heidihi]

my husband and sons say my pemmican is like a giant meat brownie :) funny!

they were thrilled with this batch ..time to dry more meat


I am not smoking the next batch the smoke is too overwhelming for lamb i think

[ProteusOne]

A meat brownie?! Sounds interesting. Is it really sweet?

[Nancy LC]

I'd love to try making it someday. :)

[Heidihi]

A meat brownie?! Sounds interesting. Is it really sweet?


Kind of it has sweet bits of fruit in it ..it is good you should make it ..18473 times better than an Atkins bar!

they are not chocolatey but I could see doing a mole' flavored pemmican!

[Daryl]

As close to "pemmican" as I've gotten:

http://www.pemmican.com/images/prd_premiumcutbeef.jpg

[Heidihi]

there you go why make your own when you can buy it in a package eh?

[Daryl]

there you go why make your own when you can buy it in a package eh?

:) Well, I don't know how this would compare to real pemmican.... but it makes a tasty snack. :agree:

[Heidihi]

:) Well, I don't know how this would compare to real pemmican.... but it makes a tasty snack. :agree:

hey whatever works is there more than jerky in there? or is it just called "Pemmican" I am curious i have not seen that before

[Daryl]

Here's a link to their website:

http://www.pemmican.com/index.html

It doesn't give the ingredients, but there is stuff added.

[Heidihi]

Thanks Daryl I have to buy some and compare it to what I made for sure I am curious now since I have nothing else to compare it to ...no one I know makes pemmican so there is no standard for me to follow...

[kneebrace]

Hi Heidi, I've been making pemmican and jerky for a few years now, and I've found that the easiest way is to mince whatever lean meat you are using and then roll it out to 8 mm thick then transfer that to the drying rack. You can easily mix in whatever spices/condiments into the mince beforehand or add them after the drying process is completed. We used horseradish in the last batch. Yum! The advantage of using mince rather than strips is that you can use really cheap cuts of meat without the gristle breaking your jaw afterward.

And BTW, the Bear was right about only needing 105 deg drying temp. Raw meat with the moisture removed is so much tastier than dried 'cooked' meat. But it really helps to store it in an open container where it gets a lot of air circulation. If you don't use salt, storing it in a sealed container will practically guarantee that it grows mold within a couple of months, regardless of how dry you get it. We've kept salt free low temp dried jerky in an open container for over two years and it was still perfect. Make sure the mice cant get to it though :) .

Stuart

[Heidihi]

Thank you Stuart I was wondering if I was the only one making this out there! the horseradish !! I love that idea!

I will try the pre ground meat and 105 drying I have been making the jerky then grinding it and that is a big pain in the butt!

I love salt and can not imagine meat with out it :)

thank you so much for your reply I will try your ideas!!