why is this group so dead?

[steveed]

...I just started neanderthin after doing CAD for 6 months, is anyone out there? Is it that tough?

[mamasita]

I totally agree with you!!!! I was on Neanderthin for a long while and I got so bored with this forum....
I'm thinking of starting neanderthin again...it's great!
Anyway, good luck to you!
If you need anything just holler :wave:
mamasita

[steveed]

mamasita: what made you drop neanderthin to begin with? I know it's tough when you're the only one around doing this WOE, while everyone looks at you like you're from mars!

I'm doing this as kind of a challenge to myself, can I get healthier while looking for new creative ways to cook? It might not be that much of a challenge considering all the asian curries and masalas that are essentially paleo! Just cut out the rice!

For mexican, I can go for the fajita etc...

[mamasita]

While Neanderthin is a great woe, with time a get's a little difficult, specially when you work out a lot... and women around that TOM get a little "cravy".
Neandertin takes a lot of dedication, planning ahead..etc. Sometimes it just doesn't fit with our busy lives.. and I'm not using this as an excuse...but then when I was doing it I wanted to lose like four pounds fast and it just didn't happen...then I binged for a couple of days and I thought I'd go back to Atkins for induction... and that was a big mistake... Atkins just doesn't work for me... (milk products r not good for me).
August is a difficult month as we're travelling all the time... but in between I'll go back to neanderthin... it's the diet I felt the best with...
although this forum is "dead"... maybe I'll just have you to talk to... and that would be great :roll:
Well... have to start my week...catch you later :wave:
Claudia

[JenofWi]

Hi. I guess I am eating this way. I started with Atkins and I like it. I just can't eat all of the processed stuff - like Slim Jims and Pork Rinds and Atkins prducts.
So I mostly eat meat and salad. That's pretty Neanderthin. I am not eating any grains or sugar. I do eat some cheese - Mostly goat cheese and raw cheese.
I don't know why it's so quiet here. Maybe not that many people are into it. Too exteme, maybe?

But I am here!

[Darnia]

The Atkins books sell better?

[steveed]

I'm not doing strictly Neanderthin anymore...I know I only gave it a week, but I started putting on the weight like CRAZY again (5 lbs. in a week)...an insulin issue I expect since I was eating whenever I wanted. I wasn't even eating any fruit!!

I've decided on doing my own plan...Neanderthin (with cheese and butter now and again) using CAD rules, I guess everyone eventually finds their own "right" feeling niche on the graph line chart of all these diet gurus when they've been experimenting for long enough!

But I am determined to make this work since I feel so much more clearer headed cutting out processed crap! I'm just glad to see that there are people out there! All my friends think I'm stark raving delusional.

Later, and thanks for the imput!

Steve

[mamasita]

Well...I agree:agree: Neanderthin can be a little extreme, but we don't have to go by the book!
I do the same... I go by Neanderthin on most things, but I have cottage cheese sometimes and I eat rice thins (like crakers make with ww rice).
I have weeks that I stick to it completly and others were I feel my body lacking stuff or craving I know I need to add some things.
For example with the friut... If I don't have some, I go and have S/F chocolate...so what's better, to have a piece of friut or to eat chocolate?

Also when I have time I cook meat and veggies so I have for a couple of days, when I don't I'll have eggs with sauteed veggies or cold cuts with salad.
I don't count grams of carbs but I do count calories I burned on my workout... That's how I do it "my way" I try constantly...
AH! And it's important not to stay for more than 2 weeks on a certain way of eating, cuase your body get's used to it and then you stop losing,so...
you have to change something... or amount of carb grams a day, or amount of calories burned...
For example: For 2 weeks I eat only meat and veggies and very little nuts... then I'll change by adding a little bit of cheese and rice thins and friut ( but that week I'll work out more intensely)
I'm very glad to see we're not alone and hope to hear more from you guys.
Have a wonderful day,:roll:
Claudia

[JenofWi]

"I've decided on doing my own plan...Neanderthin (with cheese and butter now and again) using CAD rules, I guess everyone eventually finds their own "right" feeling niche on the graph line chart of all these diet gurus when they've been experimenting for long enough!"

"Well...I agree Neanderthin can be a little extreme, but we don't have to go by the book!"


What great ideas! How radical!!! Read the information available and make an informed decision that works for us!!!!

I love it!!

When reading all of the low carb stuff that I've seen out there (and I've read an awful lot of it trying to figure it out), they all make it seem so black and white. You're either following THIS plan or you fail. How about let's do what works for us. Yay.

[jaybird]

I'm new to this forum, and it seems I'm doing things similarly to some other posters. I'm basically doing a paleo diet (I haven't read the book, but I've read lots of articles on the internet). But, occassionally I eat some dairy (raw cheese, real butter, raw milk). I just started this about 4 days ago. I did cheat once and had part of a pepsi...my hubbie said, "Go ahead it won't hurt to have just one!" Well, the funny thing is, I didn't even feel like finishing it, so I didn't. My body is getting used to eating healthy...not just from this diet, but I've been eating more organic. I would love to eat all grass-fed organic beef, but can't afford it yet.

[steveed]

I take it back...I guess Paleo people have all that extra energy so they can't sit still in front of a computer! ;)

It's good to see I'm not the only one "experimenting". It really is a case of everyone being different and needing different things. So much for the sensible yet time worn idea of Point A to Point B dieting i.e. the thermodynamic view of a calorie is a calorie is a calorie...not when the wrong calorie gives you a headache and crazy cravings!

I would get grass fed beef also, but I have to send away for it :rolleyes:
so instead I found some Omega 3 eggs, and that will just have to do! I did order grass fed beef a couple years ago (Grassland Beef, they got a website), it sure was yummie!

[PaleoDeano]

Hi everyone!

I too have tried different approaches to this paleo diet. The main interest I have is in eating as natural a diet as possible. I have always strived for that. The low carb thing I have experimented with, by cutting out fruit and nuts for a month, and watching what happens to my weight and body fat. I also feel that our bodies (our genes) are definitely almost the exact same as they were tens of thousands of years ago (they evolve so very slowly) that the most "natural" diet is one that is low carb, because the vegetation that was gathered back then was super-low sugar vegetation. The gatherers of those times may have come across some honey, but the bees probably deterred them quite a bit. The point is, they were probably in ketosis most of the time. And they thrived on eating meat (and plenty of fat). Of course, the meat and fat was not from animals that stood around in a feed lot for 200 days, eating tons of grain and getting all sorts of auto-immune diseases, like severe arthritis, etc. No, the omega fatty acids were very balanced in the game meat they ate.

I am extremely fortunate to live in the middle of north america, where I am completely surrounded by lots and lots of farms that raise grass-fed animals. Not only beef, but plenty of bison, elk, deer, sheep, pigs, chickens, turkeys, etc. The health benefits of raising animals this way is catching on like wild fire around here and many farms are raising this type of meat. I have a freezer and have researched the farms, and visited many of them. I get bison, elk, deer, lamb, pork, and other meat all the time (and when buying bulk and not paying for shipping, it is really quite inexpensive - even less than grocery store meats). I have found all these farms on the Internet. There were so many of them, I simply narrowed down the list by both distance and whether they were completely grass-fed and naturally / organically / humanely raised animals. I still had a large enough list to do price shopping after that.

I have tried to eat cheese and sour cream a few times, but, it always upsets my stomach. However, I have little problem with using butter to fry eggs in, or to top steamed veggies. But, I feel so much better when all I eat is good meat, veggies, small amounts of fruit, nuts and seeds; and try and eat the largest variety of food that I can, trying different types of dishes to keep it interesting and to get the largest variety of foodstuff in my diet that I can. I too cheat with ice cream now and then. But, lately have been on a very long "roll" with no cheating. I have gone about 6 weeks now with no cheating at all, and keeping my carbs under 20 grams almost every day. I don't know if I will cheat soon, but, I seem to always bring myself back to eating as healthy as I can anyway. I like the fact that I have cut out all the artificial, processed junk that lines the shelves in the supermarkets. I know that a few years ago, I consumed that stuff without even thinking twice about it. And, I felt lousy all the time!

Good luck to all of you on finding the best diet for your body and mind! Hang in there... cuz it is definitely worth it! No matter how "freaky" we look to the SAD eaters of today! :)

- Dean

[mamasita]

Wellcome aboard Paleodeano (great name BTW)
Loved your answer to the thread...but I'd like to know more... I see you've reached your goal.. I'd like to know how you got there... all on low carb? all on paleo-neander? Did you exercise? I'm simply interested to research on people that have reached there goals...how they've done it...
Maybe I should open a new thread about this?
Well, hope to hear from you soon,:wiggle:
mamasita

[JenofWi]

I have found local grass fed beef here:
http://www.eatwild.com/
I also buy in bulk. We eat Bison, Ostich, Turkey, Beef, and Chicken mostly.
I'm enjoying these posts!

[PaleoDeano]

Hello, mamasita!

Congrats on reaching your goal! I just modified my goals a bit. I am more interested in getting rid of body fat at this point (and gaining muscle). I will have to see what my "correct" weight should be after I get the physique I want. I am into resistance training and cardio. I love to backpack (actually I love to walk in general every chance I get). I work out a lot on my treadmill. I am trying to be more disciplined about doing resistance training. But, I have never been as thin and light as I am now (maybe back in high school or a while after). I attribute it to low carb all the way!

I have gone for a whole month at a time eating almost nothing but meat and eggs (a bit of veggies toward the end) and watched the weight (and body fat) easily fall off of me, regardless of the quantity of what I ate (and even while not exercising at all). I definitely do not believe in counting any calories! A calorie is a calorie is NOT a calorie! I have also noticed that the more animal fat I consume, the quicker the weight drops off. I believe that animal fat is one of the most (if not the most) important nutrients that humans can (and ever did) eat. After all, if it had not been for us cracking open bones and skulls to get the marrow, we would still be scavenging the kills of other predators - our brains not near the size they have become. That said, it is important to realize that all fat is not the same. The fat from a grain-fed animal is horrible for your health (not to mention the health of the poor animal)!

I use to eat low fat. I thought that was the way to go - or so I was told. Even though I worked out, I still was way over weight (not obese or anything, but when it came to body fat I was in trouble). My doctor told me to lose weight, and told me to "cut out fats in the diet" to accomplish that. He was just preaching the standard indoctrination... Anyway, I thought drinking loads of fruit juice and eating vegan type foods (lots of rice, beans, pasta, starchy foods - all the stuff on the bottom of the food pyramid) was the right way to go. Lets just say I was one of the many ignorant people who believe what is dished out by the standard, accepted health dogma/propaganda.

Luckily, I had some friends who had gotten into Atkins years before, and they started telling me about how it was not good to eat "all that slave food", as they called it. They put a historical light on the whole thing. They explained about the advent of agriculture, etc. and began to prick my curiosity about the whole thing. They turned me on to some web sites about paleo and neaderthin. I read some stuff on the web, went and bought the neaderthin book, read that, then did more research on the web, and then got the Atkins book and read that, then The Paleo Diet book, and then many others. It all started making a lot of sense to me. But, it was all just theory until I got a chance to put it into practice. I first gave up pasta, rice, potatoes... and then later, dairy. I wanted to see what would happen, and at first I thought it was a bit strange, and wondered whether it was really good for me.

Over the last year, I began to eat more and more red meat. (This was unusual for me, since most of my life I rarely ever ate red meat! After all, it was so "bad" for you!) I started trying things like Bison meat. I also noticed a profound change in my body, my energy level, my moods, and overall sense of well being. Meantime I kept researching and reading. I read Life Without Bread, which really got me to chuck the whole "fear of fat" (that was oh so hard to rid myself of)! And, even experimented with lots of butter and cheese for a while, just to see what would happen to my cholesterol. Well, after over 2 months of eating as much fat as I could stand (while doing very low carb), I found that my cholesterol had actually dropped! The more I keep eating this way, and the more I read about these things (especially the historical empirical perspective of it all), the more I see just how natural and normal this WOE is... and how unbelievably far the human race has strayed from their normal diet.

The main thing is one needs to become informed, but then to experiment to find what is correct for them. I cannot say that eating naturally-raised animals and eggs every morning, and eating a large variety of veggies and small amounts of low-sugar fruits and nuts is the way for everyone. What I can say with confidence to anyone, is "try it for yourself and see what happens". And, the people who have taken me up on that challenge have all become believers in low-carb. But, I am open to continue to learn and evolve my diet. Though, right now, for me, it is absolutely the best it has ever been, and I can feel it on a daily basis. And that, I can say for sure, I am truly happy about!

- Dean

[PaleoDeano]

I have found local grass fed beef here:
http://www.eatwild.com/
I also buy in bulk. We eat Bison, Ostich, Turkey, Beef, and Chicken mostly.
I'm enjoying these posts!

Jen,

Glad to hear you are eating wild! It sure makes a difference, doesn't it? I sure hope more and more farms start getting the message!

- Dean

[jaybird]

PaleoDeano.....what if I can't yet afford to eat grass fed beef? There is a farmer about an hour away where you can buy grass-fed cows by the 1/4, 1/2 or whole cow. We just don't have the $1000-$2500 to get that in bulk. It is definitely my intention to do it as soon as we can. Until then, should I not eat as much beef? Should I eat more chicken and fish until then? You seem very informed on the subject, I would love your opinion.

[tina-mich]

I am new in this forum what is neanderthin? Is it another LCing wol please let me know!!!!!!!!

[PaleoDeano]

PaleoDeano.....what if I can't yet afford to eat grass fed beef? There is a farmer about an hour away where you can buy grass-fed cows by the 1/4, 1/2 or whole cow. We just don't have the $1000-$2500 to get that in bulk. It is definitely my intention to do it as soon as we can. Until then, should I not eat as much beef? Should I eat more chicken and fish until then? You seem very informed on the subject, I would love your opinion.

A quarter cow (or bison) should cost about $300 - $400, depending on the size of the animal. You should be able to get about 100+ lbs of meat from a quarter, and it should cost you about $3.00/lb. If you split that with someone, the cost is half of that, and you still get over 50 lbs of meat. Lamb costs about $150 a whole, and $80 for half. A whole lamb yields around 45 - 50 lbs of meat... which, again, is about $3.00/lb. A half a pig is less than $200 and yields about 70 lbs of meat - making it around $2.80/lb. Chicken is usually about $1.75/lb. (although, I usually buy things like chicken thighs at $0.59/lb on sale at the grocery store). I rarely buy fish, because it is very expensive. The farm-raised salmon is on sale sometimes at $4.00/lb or so, but, again, that is grain-fed fish! I will eat that on occasion, as well as shrimp when it is on sale. But, remember, fish are pretty polluted from all the water pollution.

I don't know what you pay in the grocery store for steaks and burgers and roasts, and other meat, but I would bet the average price for those items are more than $3.00/lb. $1000 - $2500 would get you 300 - 800 lbs of meat! You would have to have a pretty large freezer to hold that much meat! But you don't have to buy that far in advance. You might get a bit better price if you buy larger quantities, but the real price break starts at a quarter of a large animal, and a half of a smaller animal. You really are better off buying more often anyway, so the meat is fresher, and does not lose it's nutritional quality.

Meat in general costs money. I have come to the point where I have traded all unnecessary consumption for high quality consumption. I only buy fresh fruits and veggies and nuts and eggs (usually from farmers markets where it is cheaper, and fruit in bulk or on sale and freeze it). I buy meat in bulk and freeze it. Outside of that, I really do not consume anything else. I don't smoke, drink, do caffeine products, eat candy, chew gum, etc., etc. All these little things end up adding up to large amounts of money. Take a pack of cigarettes (or 1 1/2 packs), a coke, a candy bar, a pack of gum, a cup of Starbuck's coffee, a glass of wine, a beer, a sweet roll, an ice cream cone, etc, etc... you can see how quickly this stuff adds up. Then, go to the grocery store and buy a bunch of canned and frozen and boxed and processed stuff off of the shelves, and watch how quickly those items add up. One box of cereal is around $4 these days! Throw in coffee at $10 a lb, or six packs of Pepsi, or bags of potato chips, or even fruit juice... a can of soup or a frozen TV dinner or pizza.... This all equals big bucks. You see what my point is. If you cut all the processed junk out of your diet, and really try to eat natural foods (purchased sensibly), then you really can afford to eat quality meat and fresh veggies and small amounts of fruit and nuts. This is a much healthier way of eating anyway. I get farm fresh, jumbo brown eggs from free range chickens, for $1.00 a dozen from a farmers market. I would pay about $1.00 - $1.25 per dozen (plus tax) for medium size (very small actually) white, commercial eggs that are very poor quality, and come from chickens who probably never see daylight their whole lives!

I just refuse to allow myself the "excuse" that "it is just too expensive to eat this way"... I hear that all the time from people... people who spend about $10 every day on the aforementioned items, without even thinking twice about it! Eggs are a very inexpensive source of protein (and fat!), and I eat plenty. I don't buy organic produce, because that would add costs that I don't think are worth it. Everyone needs to decide what trade-offs they are going to make.

Of course, where one lives makes a big difference. I happen to be very fortunate living near many farms. But, if you do the research on the web, you can find farms almost anywhere.

Here are two links that might help.

http://www.heall.com/resource/food/

http://www.eatwild.com/

Good luck.

-Dean

[PaleoDeano]

I am new in this forum what is neanderthin? Is it another LCing wol please let me know!!!!!!!!

Neanderthin is a book by Ray Audette.

http://www.neanderthin.com/
http://www.beyondveg.com/nieft-k/rvw/rvw-neanderthin.shtml

Here is a link about Ray...

http://www.sofdesign.com/neanderthin/observer.html

It is a small, inexpensive paperback book. It is delightful reading. Ray really did his homework for this book (he actually did it to save his very poor health).
:read2:

Basically, it is eating the way our ancestors ate... before agriculture messed up the planet!
:nono:

It is eating the way our bodies were designed by nature (evolution) to eat. Not the way Kraft and Cargill would like us to eat!

:agree:

-Dean

[tina-mich]

TY Dean for the reply. Best of luck to you.
Tina