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mhampton
Sun, May-11-03, 16:34
Iíve tried Final Bread, Iíve tried Gabiís bread, and Iíve tried others. They just didn't taste enough like bread to me, so I set out to create my own low-bread carb. 6 experimental loaves later, this is what I came up with. It looks and tastes very much like wheat bread. Hope you like it!

Ingredients:

3/4 cup water
1 tablespoon butter
1 1/2 teaspoon sugar (for the yeast)
1 egg

3/4 cup vital wheat gluten
1 cup miller's wheat bran
1/2 cup oat flour
1 tablespoon Splenda
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 package rapid-rise yeast

Measure out the water (COLD) in a glass measuring cup, and then add the butter and sugar. Microwave until the water/butter/sugar reaches 110 degrees F. That takes ~30 seconds with my microwave. Slightly beat the egg and add it to the water. Make sure the mixture is still between 100 and 110 degrees F. Why? Because yeast can be very finicky. While the yeast is ďtestingĒ, mix the remaining ingredients in a separate bowl. Verify that the yeast is bubbling/frothing, and put the dry ingredients on top of the wet ingredients in your bread machine. Start your bread machine using the white-bread cycle.

Notes: I use a cheap Oster bread machine which does not allow me to control the number of times the bread kneads/rises. My bread turns out just fine anyway. The amount of sugar used plays a critical role in how much the yeast rises. The Splenda and salt make the bread taste more like the mass-produced bread we are all accustomed to. I use Bobís Red Mill vital wheat gluten and unprocessed wheat bran, but Iím sure other brands will work just as well with little or no fine-tuning.

Carbs: wheat gluten: 18 grams; wheat bran: 28 grams; oat flour: 32 grams, Splenda: 1 gram; sugar: eaten by yeast
Fiber: wheat bran: 24 grams; oat flour 5 grams
Net carbs for loaf: 49 grams. 15 slices = 3.3 carbs/slice

ggrumpy
Tue, May-13-03, 06:56
Thanks for this post. I've been trying to find a recipe that I like. Final & Gabi's were down right awful. I'll let you know how it turns out.

msdaisy
Tue, May-13-03, 09:17
I've tried a couple of recipes that were not the best looking (ugliest!) I've ever seen :p . Gabi's pushed the top of my breadmaker up and inch!! Therefore, I must be doing something wrong. It's obvious that LC bread is just not the same in a bread machine as the "taboo" stuff. So, my question is regarding the kneading and rise periods. Do you just knead, let rise in a bowl and bake in the oven? Or is the two rise periods in a BM too much? How many times does your machine knead and rise? I'd really like to find a reasonably good recipe that I can make "hamburger" buns out of along with a good loaf of bread.

Thanks.

mhampton
Tue, May-13-03, 09:53
Making one's bread rise just the right amount is a tricky business. In the experimental loaves I got everything form a two-inch loaf to an eight-inch blowout. Here are some of the factors:

Sugar: A little more sugar gives the yeast more food, and more rising power. In this recipe, going from 1 teaspoon to 1 1/2 teaspoons made all the difference between a short loaf and a perfect loaf.

Water temperature: Make sure it is between 100 and 110 degrees F. I use a thermometer to check the temperature. That's the temperature the yeast likes. Use rapid-rise yeast.

Kneading/rising. My bread machine appears to knead the bread twice. For one of the experimental loaves, I tried turning off the machine before the second kneading and baking it later, but I ended up with a short-loaf. There were other factors at play here, however, so it may be worth trying again. I only used 1 teaspoon of sugar in that loaf, and I believe the bread machine keeps the dough slightly warm during the rising cycle, so turning it off may have slowed the rising considerably. Maybe I should have let it sit longer.

I haven't tried the recipe without a bread machine, but I imagine it could be modified to work with traditional baking methods. traditional baking is too much trouble for me however. I like the concept of dumping ingredients in a bread machine and getting hot bread three hours later :) .

I should have warned everyone that I live in the Mile High city (5280 feet), so altitude is a factor. At sea-level the recipe may need a little tweaking.

msdaisy
Tue, May-13-03, 13:17
After reading a lot of posts regarding bread made with vital wheat flour, I decided to give this a try. I just let my bread maker go through the knead process once. I think my machine was over-working the gluten. Took the dough out and gently shaped it and put in an oiled pan to rise. After doubled, baked in a 350 degree oven for 35 minutes. This made a beautiful shaped, browned loaf. And the taste is marvelous. Just like a good wheat bread.

I think the keys were not overworking the dough and only one rise. I use SAF instant yeast and I cut it back to one teaspoon.

Finally! Thanks :D

ggrumpy
Wed, May-14-03, 08:14
mhampton,

How big do your loaves get? I tried yesterday and got about a 4" loaf. I'm trying again today changing the order around a bit. It doesn't look like it's going to rise. Any ideas?

Thanks

mhampton
Wed, May-14-03, 09:56
Where I live (Denver), breads tend to rise somewhat quicker than at sea level due to the higher altitude, so some adjustments may be in order. Every bread machine is a littel different too.

Here are some things you can try. I wouldn't try them all at once, however:

1) Use a little more sugar. I got short loaves with 1 teaspoon, and perfect loaves with 1 1/2 teaspoons. You might try 2 teaspoons. From what I understand about yeast consuming the sugar in bread, I believe this should not affect the carb-count too much, but I could be wrong about that.

2) Make sure the water/butter/sugar/egg mixture is closer to 110 than 100.

3) Use only a 1/4 teaspoon of salt.

4) Try a bread-machine cycle that allows more rising time. Maybe a wheat-bread cycle?

Good luck. 4 inches isn't all that bad for a first attempt. It sounds like you only need a small adjustment. Good luck!

ggrumpy
Wed, May-14-03, 10:58
mhampton,

I got a real nice loaf this try. I increased the sugar to 2 teaspoons, reduced the yeast to 1 teaspoon, the wheat gluten to 1 cup and the bran to 3/4. Apparently my bread machine dosen't like mixing all the wet ingredients together. I put a room tempature egg in first, dry stuff, and then the water with proofed sugar and yeast in last. Very nice loaf. It's still hot so haven't tasted it yet. Thank you very much for your help.

mhampton
Wed, May-14-03, 11:18
Fantastic! Glad it worked for you. The texture of the bread isn't exactly equivalent to wheat bread, but it tastes pretty good and has none of those funky soy or whey flavors.

I even used it for French toast over the weekend. (Freedom toast for the less tolerant among us)

cdnbarbie
Sun, Jun-08-03, 21:06
I tried the recipe here in Edmonton (elevation 2200) and did it the old fashion way. I don't own a bread machine so I did all the work by hand.

I did a double batch with the following changes from the original recipe -
- added 1/2 cup ground flax seed instead of doubling the oat flour (which I ground myself from oatmeal - seemed to work great!)
- I also finely ground my bran as well.
- and I used Stevia instead of Splenda.

The bread raised perfectly (I only let it rise once) and the texture was wonderful. It has a taste that is very close to whole wheat bread.

I would recommend mhampton's recipe for others to try!!

msdaisy
Mon, Jun-09-03, 06:52
I also used this recipe for making hamburger buns. They turned out beautifully. They are light and large enough for a patty and they toast well too.

Azraelle
Wed, Jun-11-03, 09:18
Thank You for sharing your recipe.
I presume this creates a so-called "1-lb loaf". Has anyone tried it as a 1-1/2 lb loaf (with suitable increases in ingredients)?

eyecee2
Sat, Jun-14-03, 23:11
Hi all,
I was just wondering if someone could please help me on the amount of carbs in Gluten Flour because I have read on one of the recipes that 1 and 1/4 cups has 30 g of carbs....yet on the packet of Soland gluten flour I bought it said that 100g = 72 grams of carbs.
From what I could work out 1 cup = 4 0z = 125 grams which would make the bread along with the soy flour, flaxmeal etc so very much higher in carbs, am I reading it wrong or are we eating high carb bread???

TARA'S BROWN BREAD
(based on Gabi's Bread)

1 pkg dry yeast (or 2 teaspoons)
Ĺ t sugar (gets totally eated by the yeast)
1 C warm water
3 T olive oil
1 Ĺ t baking powder (1.65)
1 t salt
1 ľ C gluten flour (30)
ĺ C soy flour (15.3)
ľ C flaxmeal (2.46)
ľ C wheat bran (3.15)

Place yeast, sugar and water in bottom of breadmaker pan, and check that the yeast is active. Then add all other ingredients, and run through usual 4 hour cycle in breadmaker. I cut this into 19 slices, which is 2.77g carbs per slice. (Total 52.56g after fibre subtracted)

or

Run through dough cycle of breadmaker (or mix by hand), then divide into 2 loaves, place in loaf pans, and let rise in a slightly warm oven for 40 mins. Cook in oven at 190 C for 40 minutes. Makes two small loaves of 19 slices each, 1.39 g carbs each slice.


:)

mhampton
Sat, Jun-14-03, 23:25
There's a big, big difference (carb-count wise) between "vital wheat gluten" and "gluten flour." Vital wheat gluten is ~75% protein, while gluten flour typically contains < 15% protein. Here's a link which will give you more information:

http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/gluten.html

eyecee2
Sat, Jun-14-03, 23:38
Thankyou so much mhampton,
I will read that now....I havent got the package information here as it is at a friends but I swear I read under the ingredient that it said Vital wheat gluten flour...will double check...again thankyou... :wave:

ira
Sun, Jun-29-03, 23:09
I've baked a lot of low carb breads. most of them failures..often the texture is akin to melted plastic or sponge, but this one was really good and I'll make it again.

lleo
Sat, Jul-05-03, 21:13
I found a recipe from mhampton on how to make the bread only did not have the exact ingrediants that this person did, but it came out really good. I need to know how I can figure our how many carbs there are in the loaf.
Here is my verson of the recipe. I used what I had on hand.
3/4 cup warm water
1 TBSP butter
1 tsp sugar
1 egg

3/4 cup vital gluten
3/4 cup whole wheat flour
1/4 cup wheat germ
1/2 cup soy flour
2 packages sweet-N-low
1/4 tsp salt
2 1/4 tsp yeast

I did not use a bread machine I used my kitchen aid mixer. Let it kneed the dough for about 5 min. I let it rise for about 1 hour till it came to the top of the bread pan. Then baked it at 350 degrees for 30 minuites in bread pan sprayed with oil. It had a good taste but was a little on the dry side. Maybe the wheat germ caused that.
I would appreciate the help. I am still new to the low carb diet, but have caught on very well it is easier than low fat.
I use the Carbohydrate Addict's Lifespan Program and I like it better than Atkins. I started out with that.

Thanks in advance.

Azraelle
Sun, Jul-06-03, 03:18
Use this chart (open in NotePad, not Wordpad):http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?threadid=110702

Using this info, plus these additional specs (WholeWheat flour, per quarter cup: 0.5g fat, 18g carbs, 3g fiber, 4g protein; defatted Wheat Germ, per quarter cup: 0g fat, 11g carbs, 3g fiber, 6g protein), I get 83g Net Carbs for your loaf.

lleo
Sun, Jul-06-03, 18:07
Post #3

Azraelle
Thanks for the quick answer. When I make it next time I will leave out the wheat germ and that will lower the carbs even more, and maybe make it less dry. Try the recipe yourself and let me know what you think.

Azraelle
Sun, Jul-06-03, 20:45
I have made variations of the recipe below 4 times with a bread machine, and this last time with letting the dough rise in a loaf pan and baked in a regular oven (to see whether just one rise would make for a better loaf because of the high gluten content)--they all come out quite crusty but very good nonetheless, from no less critics than my teenage son and daughter, who are not into low carb eating at all. The loaves look awful, but are nice and spongy inside.

Preheat the bread machine pan with hot tap water.

In a separate container, measure ~4-1/2 Cups dry ingredients* and mix well.

*My latest try used the following mixture--it isn't too picky as long as you use at least 1-1/4 Cups "vital wheat gluten flour" (the stuff that is ~70% protein), and no more than 1/2 cup soy flour (otherwise it tastes awful, so I've read):

2 TBSP dry Buttermilk
~250mg Vitamin C tablet, crushed
2 pkts Stevia (~1 tsp)
1/2 Cup Flax Seed Meal
1 Cup Oat Bran
1/2 Cup Whey Powder
1/2 Cup Soy Flour
1-1/2 Cup vital wheat gluten flour
1/2 Cup Rolled Oats

Measure out 1-1/4 cups hot tap water (I have a digital thermometer from my truck driving days) ~115-120 degrees F.
Add one Large or XLG egg (equiv to ~1/4cup), 2 TBSP oil (I use Peanut Oil most of the time), ~1 tsp lecithin, and 2 TBSP Blackstrap molasses in that order (the sticky lecithin and molasses just flow off the Tablespoon if used for the oil first). Mix real well with fork. Liquid temp should be about 95-99 deg F by now. Pour this into the bread machine pan.
Add the dry ingredients all at once. Add 1-1/2 tsp salt near one side. Poke a hole in the dry mixture on the other side, and add 3 tsp (or 1 TBSP) Active Dry Yeast (I used Red Star--not the special bread machine yeast).

Let the machine knead it, then extract the dough ball and shape into a loaf in a regular loaf pan, COVER with warm damp wash cloth, and let rise ~70 min in a warm oven (or other place free from drafts). Bake at 350-375 degrees for about an hour.

Or let the bread machine do its stuff. Since my bread machine's whole wheat cycle has never worked, I use the french bread cycle instead. This last time I did notice that there seemed to be more bulk to the loaf by pulling out the dough from the bread machine after the first kneading, and letting it rise in a loaf pan inside my warm oven, but even letting the machine do the normal cycles of 2 rises results in a spongy texture with lots of holes--its just that I only get about 10 very heavy slices. Simply judging it on the net carbs per slice seems to be a misleading oversimplification of what the body apparently does with bread with this much fiber--even 2 or 3 heavy slices have not been enough to knock me out of ketosis, and my carbohydrate threshold is only ~50g. This makes the equivalent of a 2 lb loaf.
Net Carbs/Loaf=138; 13.8/slice.
Fiber=44g; 4.4g fiber/slice.
Protein=226g; 22.6g/slice.
Fat=95g; 9.5g/slice
I will be trying it next with just 1 TBSP molasses (primarily because that's about what I have left), and 1/2 Cup Rice Bran (if I can find some), and reducing the oat bran down to 1/2 Cup.

Coriolis
Sun, Jul-06-03, 21:18
mhampton,

I'm quite anxious to try your recipe, and I don't have a bread machine, and have never actually baked "real" bread before, but I'm going to give it a try. I used to love watching my mother bake bread, so at least I've SEEN it done. lol

As a complete newbie in bread making, I have a couple questions for you (or anyone else with the experience)

1. regarding the water temp between 110-100F: how long does it need to stay at this temp? Does it just need to be at this temp when the yeast is added, ot maintained at this temp while the yeast is "testing", as you say (I have no clue what that means, but I think I understand what is meant).

2. this one I guess is more for the "manual" brute force bread makers -- I remember my mother would kneed the bread, let it rise, then do another kneeding, and let it rise a second time, before popping it into the oven. What I'm reading here is to kneed once, let rise, then put it in the oven. What are the effects of kneeding once as opposed to twice?

Thanks in advance for the help (and any other tips would be helpful). I plan to gather the ingredients tomorrow evening from the local Whole Foods store, and am hoping to have fresh bread for breakfast on Tuesday! :)

Azraelle
Mon, Jul-07-03, 13:17
My bread machine (Sunbeam/Oster 1-1/2lb Model #5890) cost me just $35 at WalMart. At that price, just about anyone can afford one--it doesn't make sense to put up with making it by hand, especially since doing it by hand ties up your kitchen (and you) for about 2-3 hours, whereas with a bread machine you lose maybe 20 minutes tops, then forget it and go do something else.

That said, for Q-1, I would suppose that if you made it in a bowl using a mixer or fork to get the ingredients mixed b4 turning out onto the counter to knead; If you pre-mix the liquid ingredients, and the dry ingredients, including the salt but minus the yeast, then pour in the liquid, then the dry, poke a hole for the yeast, then quickly mix it up, THEN the water temperature would be sufficient to get the yeast working.

Q-2: Mixtures with high gluten content, apparently, rise best if only one knead/rise cycle is performed. I wonder if the so-called "quick bread" cycle on the typical late model bread machines would work for this?? My bread machine's instruction manual is permanently lost, so it is of no help!

Coriolis
Tue, Jul-08-03, 10:01
LOL, ok so it didn't go too well on my first attempt. :lol:

I ended up with a 1 1/2 inch high loaf! Although it was flat and dense, it was still tasty, but I'm afraid there's not much one can do with such a flat loaf.

Here's what I did -- please, someone, tell me what I did wrong!

I measured out 3/4 cup of cold water (it was as cold as I could get it from the tap, but with the warm weather it certainly wasn't freezing cold) in a pyrex measuring cup (2 cup capacity), put in 1 tbsp of butter and EXACTLY 1 1/2 tsp of sugar as directed. I heated it in the microwave until it was approximately 100-110 degrees (I had to use an analog meat thermometer which had a minimum scale reading of 140 deg, so I estimated where 110 deg would be on the scale, and shot for that). I then put the fast-rising yeast in the water/butter/sugar mixture, stirred it up well, and set it on the stove. The oven was on, so the top surface of the stove was warm enough to keep the mixture hot while the yeast "tested".

Meanwhile, I mixed up the dry ingredients (I used exactly the ingredients and portions listed in mhampton's recipe).

The yeast mixture was nicely frothed/bubbled (it had a "head" on it about 1 inch think) after I was done mixing up the dry ingredients. So I poured the yeast mixture into a stainless steal bowl, and then gradually worked in the dry ingredients, mixing with a wooden spoon. The resulting dough was rather sticky, yet sort of crumbly -- it didn't have the type of consistency I'm normally used to seeing with white bread dough.

I formed it into a "clump", put a dish towel over the bowl and let it rise for about 1 1/2 hours. The rise was not what I expected it would be -- I'd estimate the "clump" grew in size only 25% or so. For the first half hour, I had the bowl sitting atop the oven, which was actually quite warm -- perhaps too warm? The rise happened in the first hour, and then no change. So I then kneeded the dough -- it was still quite sticky, so I spread some oat flour on the table and kneeded it quite thoroughly. I then greased up a small loaf pan (pyrex) with butter, and put the dough into it, spreading it out to fill the pan. This resulted in about 2 inches or so of dough within the pan. I then let it rise again for about 1 hour. I'd estimate it rose about about an inch, perhaps less.

Then I put the bread in a 350 deg pre-heated oven for about 30 min, give or take a few. When I took it out, it had actually shrunk to about 1 1/2 inches high...

Clearly, I did something wrong. Any ideas???

msdaisy
Tue, Jul-08-03, 10:43
This is just a guess, but it could be that your water was too hot and actually killed the yeast. It could look active and then "die" from too much heat.

Coriolis
Tue, Jul-08-03, 13:38
Just to get an idea of what to expect: how much should you see the dough rise the first time?

The dough, when first made (using the ingredient amounts listed), if rolled into a ball, would be about the size of a large grapefruit. Should I expect to see it double in size?

After kneeding it, and placing it in the loaf pan, is it correct to let it rise again before putting into the oven (this I read in Joy of Cooking in the Yeast Breads chapter)? If so, should it rise the same amount the 2nd time? More? Less?

Thanks for all the help -- :)

Azraelle
Tue, Jul-08-03, 14:05
Coriolis, you should put it into the oven immediately after the first rise--don't knead it a second time. The only reason for "proofing" the yeast is to insure it is still alive. If your yeast has a "use before" date on it that is at least 6 months away, there is no need to proof it. Instead, start with water temp of 110-115 degrees, then mix the dry ingredients, including the yeast and sugar, together with the water, knead, then place in loaf pan in a warm, preferably enclosed, place FREE FROM DRAFTS. A gas oven with a pilot light works well for this. Or the top of a refrigerator near the back if the heat exchange coils are on the back. Lacking that, brush oil on top of dough, cover lightly with saran wrap, then with a piece of aluminum foil to reflect heat back onto the loaf, and stick it in your electric oven about 10 minutes after turning off the "warm" setting for 10 minutes.
If you are using mhampton's recipe you need to add more sugar, probably a total amount of something near to a Tablespoon (3 tsp), as Denver's 5500 ft altitude makes it MUCH easier for the yeast to rise with minimal amounts of sugar than at or near sea level (Massachusetts).

Coriolis
Tue, Jul-08-03, 15:12
Instead, start with water temp of 110-115 degrees, then mix the dry ingredients, including the yeast and sugar, together with the water, knead, then place in loaf pan in a warm, preferably enclosed, place FREE FROM DRAFTS.
Thanks Azraelle! :)

My yeast has an expiry date of Jan 2005, so it should be fine.

But I want to be sure I'm following your instructions... are you saying NOT to mix the yeast and sugar with the water? If I understand you correctly, I should do the following:

Heat the water with butter to 110-115 deg. Put the water into the bowl. Then add ALL the dry ingredients (flours, gluten, salt, yeast and sugar) to the water.

Is that correct?

Coriolis
Thu, Jul-10-03, 08:43
I'm hoping someone can answer these questions for me, as I said earlier, I'm a complete Newbie at making bread... :)

>> Should the yeast and sugar be added to the hot water/butter first, before mixing in the dry ingredients --OR -- should the yeast and sugar be mixed into the dry ingredients, then added to the hot water/butter mixture?

From what I've read in cook books, dry acting yeast should be added to water first, while fast-rising yeast should be added to the dry ingredients. I'll readily admit that this confuses me! :daze:

Also:

>> How can one be sure that ALL the sugar gets eaten by the yeast? If I use a tablespoon of sugar to get a better rise, how can I be sure that all the sugar will get eaten, and NOT increase the carb content of my bread?

Man, this is hard stuff, this bread making! :rolleyes:

Azraelle
Thu, Jul-10-03, 18:34
It shouldn't matter whether you mix the yeast with the water first or not--after all the bread machine does not mix the yeast first with the water. But if you DO mix the yeast first with the water, you MUST insure that the liquid temperature is no higher than 110 degrees. The only way I know to do this is with a digital thermometer, as the markings on a mercury thermometer, or a dial thermometer, can be off as much as 5-10 degrees. 120 degrees will kill the yeast. But if you start with ~115 degree liquid (without yeast mixed in) then mix all the dry ingredients, including the yeast, together with the liquid all at once, the dry ingredients will moderate down the temperature to a point where the yeast will happily go to work on the starches in the flour, as well as the sugar. As to whether the sugar is used up or not, the carbs that a teaspoon of sugar adds (4.2g, acc to Atkins carb counter) is a negligable amount compared to the carbs contributed by everything else, so why worry about it? Even if the yeast doesn't eat ANY of the tablespoon of sugar, this only adds another 12.6g to the loaf, which is less than 1g per slice, if you actually get 15 slices, as mhampton implies.
If the yeast consumes all of the sugar at 5500 ft, and more sugar is needed to get a decent rise at 500 ft, you can safely assume that the yeast will gobble that up too. Again, don't worry about it--don't strain at the gnat and swallow the camel, so to speak.

Coriolis
Thu, Jul-10-03, 21:24
Again, don't worry about it--don't strain at the gnat and swallow the camel, so to speak.
Hehe, it's the scientist in me that causes that... bread making is an exact science, dammit! :lol:

Thanks for the help! :)

jpizarro76
Thu, Jul-10-03, 23:40
I followed the recipe above, and got Bob's ingredients like you said. My question: The total carb count on the wheat bran was 10g. Fiber was 6g. Sugar was 1 g. If using 1 cup, wouldn't the carb total be 40g, and the fiber 24g?
You had 28g?
Are there additional carbs I can take off for wheat bran?

rmccloud
Tue, Sep-02-03, 20:51
:roll:Ok...

I am curious:

My Breadman "Ultimate" telles me - in the video and in the instruction booklet - to ALWAYS add wet first and thendry in top (including the yeast)...

But - I am a novice at this an continue to have rising/mixing problems - due to the yeast?

So... do I ignore breadman's adivce and proof the yeast with the liquid
as recommended so many times in all these lo-carb recipes?

Thanks for any help to a novice (4 loafs - 1 edible lo-carb, 2 throw aways, and one honey-wheat for my wife which has yet to be tasted/eaten)

Ross

ira
Tue, Sep-02-03, 21:58
If you're sure the yeast is good, I don't think proofing the yeast first is necessary. I have found that working with vital wheat gluten is very tricky. It doesn't like to get over kneaded, and some bread machines over knead, so the resulting bread rises and then falls too much...SO what I often do is have the machine mix and knead(only one cycle of kneading) then take the dough out of the machine and either put in in another loaf pan or shape it into rolls, then let it rise for an hour, and then bake..

lorelei
Sat, Oct-25-03, 14:28
Just some quick remarks on making bread. I've never tried to make lowcarb bread, but I have made many many loaves of other kinds, and have read a few books on breadmaking.

The proofing of the yeast, although not always needed seems to result in a better bread for me. And most books on bread making I've read recommend it. They call it softening the yeast, and it seems to help transition the yeast from being dormant, to the hardworking sugar consuming gas factories they will become. When making one loaf where I poof the yeast and one where I don't, the one where I've proofed the yeast always comes out better.

Also a side note here, honey seemes to make a better bread than sugar. Since it's so much sweeter, and has a better effect on the yeast, you need less of it though, so this would take some experimenting to find the right amount. I used to add a teaspoon of honey, 1/2 teaspoon of salt (be careful of your salt content in bread, it influences the effectiveness of the yeast. Too much salt, and the yeast wont work as well as it should, but not enough can also cause problems), and 1 Tablespoon of flour (not sure what to replace this with for lowcarbing), to my warm water to help get the yeast started. Worked like a charm, the bread was always very light and full flavored.

That said, in my bread machine I don't usually poof (or soften) my yeast before I make bread. Although it would probably make better loaves if I did, I just love the ability to dump everything in, push some buttons, and forget about the whole thing until I smell the warm smell of baking bread coming from my kitchen. But when I was making a large quantity of bread, or making it as a gift for someone, I wouldn't use the machine, and I always softened the yeast before hand.

Gluten is the next key factor in bread. In fact, it's probubly the deciding factor in how most bread turns out. I'm not sure exactly what 'vita gluten' is, but I can imagine using an extreemly high gluten 'flour' would change how things work. One thing is sure though, it MUST be developed before the bread is left to rise.

The yeast mixture was nicely frothed/bubbled (it had a "head" on it about 1 inch think) after I was done mixing up the dry ingredients. So I poured the yeast mixture into a stainless steal bowl, and then gradually worked in the dry ingredients, mixing with a wooden spoon. The resulting dough was rather sticky, yet sort of crumbly -- it didn't have the type of consistency I'm normally used to seeing with white bread dough.

I formed it into a "clump", put a dish towel over the bowl and let it rise for about 1 1/2 hours.
From this it looks like you didn't kneed the bread before you left it to rise the first time. This is is probubly why it didn't rise much for you. I can't remember the exact science of it all. But I do remember that if the gluten isn't developed the yeast can't do their job as well, and you can end up with a brick. It took me many tries to realize that I wasn't kneeding my whole wheat dough enough to develop the gluten well enough to help it rise. I ended up with many many bricks, that although they tasted good... didn't quite turn out the way I had hoped. Overworking (over kneeding) the gluten will 'break' the gluten, and give the same results. I was always so worried about breaking it, that I wasn't working it enough. You're supposed to be able to see long strands of gluten if you gentely stretch out some dough and hold it up to the light. (sort of like a web, but not really... I can't think of the right way to explain it, it's simple once you see it... just not sure how to give you a good mental picture)

A good 'test' for when the dough has risen enough is to poke it with a finger, or two. If it resists, and or pushes back out, it's not done rising. If it leaves an indentation where you pushed in, without much if any spring back, it's done. If it sighs a bit and caves in more... you've overdone it. The idea is to let the bread rise almost until done before you put it in the oven, and then let it do it's last little bit in the oven. As the heat increases, the yeast work harder... if they have any life left in them, and they make the bread rise even more than it would outside the oven. When it works just right, it's a wonderful thing to behold. When it doesn't... the bread still looks fine, and tastes good.

Bread making is a science, but it is a very tempermental one. Yeast will act different at different tempetures... humidity levels... same with flours. It always seems much more of a touchy feely kind of artwork, than a science. The principles are most definatly biochemical/chemical, but the actual pratice is much more of a: "pratice until you get a feel for it." kind of thing.

I plan on shopping around for the things I'll need to make some lowcarb bread, and then doing some experimenting to see how it all works. Will let everyone know how it turns out.

Azraelle
Sat, Oct-25-03, 23:03
TO LORELEI:
"Vital Gluten" flour can be made by hand: Take flour, white or wheat, add water until it is a sticky gooey mess, but holds together, then stick the goo in a collander and WASH IT w(while kneading it with your fingers in cool water until the runoff turns clear (e.g. the starch has been separated and washed away, leaving primarily the gluten). Then dry it, and re-grind it. The stuff that you buy (vital wheat gluten flour) is ~ 70-75% protein, as opposed to ~15-16% for bread flour, and ~14% for flour made from "hard red winter winter wheat, ~12% for flour made from spring wheat (usually what white bleached flour is processed from).

Thanks for the rising tips. I never knew how to tell exactly when it was done--only when it wouldn't rise anymore!

mhampton
Wed, Oct-29-03, 18:57
Well, I'm glad some folks have had success with my bread! I still make it, and I still like it. I recently tried making rolls for a dinner party (all of us on Atkins) using this recipe and got rave reviews, so I think I'm on to something. Good luck to all of you!

Here are answers to some of the posts I've seen (and missed). I'm no expert on bread-making. These answers simply reflect my experiences and observations after making dozens of these loaves:


Coriolis:

I think you may have let the yeast sit too long. A 1 1/2-inch frothy head is far more than I have ever seen. It may be possible that the yeast consumed all of the sugar before it was mixed with the other ingredients, and consequently had no gas left to raise the bread. When I make bread, I just verify that it starts bubbling a little bit (just a film, if you will) before I start folding in the other ingredients. This usually takes ~15 minutes. Note: I live in a dry, higher-altitude region -- your mileage may vary.

I wouldn't worry about the yeast consuming the sugar. If some of the sugar remains unconsumed, it really won't affect the carb count a great deal.


Lorelei:

It's actually called "vital wheat gluten", which has far more protein and far fewer carbs than the similarly named "high-gluten flour". As Azraelle pointed out, it may be possible to make the stuff, but I'm a lazy bread-maker so I opted to buy a 25 lb. bag of the stuff from the "Bob's Red Mill" web site for ~$30:

http://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/index.php?action=showdetails&product_ID=400

Rmccloud:

It may not be necessary to "test" the yeast, but my results have always been better when I have done so. As another poster noted, we're not really testing the yeast as much as we're softening the yeast. My opinion, based on having tried this recipes both ways, is that softening the yeast makes it more active. If you let it soften too long, however, I think it will consume all of the sugar and you could easily end up with a short loaf.

Ms M
Thu, Jan-08-04, 15:25
I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this recipe. I've made this bread twice and think that I'll always have a loaf of it around. I use an electric knife to cut it thin and then toast it. It's yummy!

jebsr
Sat, Jan-24-04, 13:49
I tried this recipe but in m case there was too much water. I tried a cup of it taste is ok net try will be less h2o.

jebsr
Sat, Jan-24-04, 13:54
What's the skinny on gluten wheat flour? I have a har time finding any thing labeled this way. Looking foreward to your sugestions jebsr

rosethorns
Sun, Feb-22-04, 17:09
Your bread is absolutly wonderful. My DH and I keep raving about it.Great job mhampton.

rosethorns
Sat, May-01-04, 08:16
bump 'cause I need it today .

Azraelle
Sat, Jun-05-04, 05:06
MY POST #18 HAS AN INCORRECT LINK--IT SHOULD BE:
HERE (OPEN IN NOTEPAD) (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=1167773#post1167773)

Vermithrax
Sat, Jun-05-04, 19:26
Well, I tried this bread... :) Made a two-pound loaf, because that's what my bread machine does... Holy. I doubled the recipe, and had to take the bread out and bake it in the oven, because it was HUGE!!! It was about 4 inches out of the top of the breadmaker. :p Oh well. :) It turned out great, though. This time, I'm gonna try to reduce the sugar and yeast and see what happens... :) I'll keep you posted. ;)

Azraelle
Sat, Jun-05-04, 19:42
WHICH RECIPE WAS IT, Vermithrax?

Vermithrax
Sat, Jun-05-04, 19:48
It was the very first recipe in this thread... By mhampton. :) I just modified it, and am baking again... I reduced the sugar and yeast, and also took 1/2 cup of bran out and put 1/2 cup of ground flax in... Oughtta be interesting. ;)

haroon
Wed, Jun-16-04, 16:50
Hi

I dont live in US, thus was unable to find
Gluten
and Splenda

What are these products... If someone can explain, maybe I would be able to find these or substitute products

Thanks in advance

Vermithrax
Thu, Jun-17-04, 05:55
Hey there... :) I don't live in the US either. I live in Canada... I found Gluten in a bulk food store, they just called it gluten flour, and it has 85% protein... They only had it at one of their locations, however... Phone around to see if any bulk food stores around you have it. As for Splenda, it can be found in most big grocery stores, again, call around. It's pretty expensive, ran me about $6.00 for a box of Splenda, but I only use it in bread-making, so it's not a big deal. I've seen it at every other grocery store I've been to. :) Splenda is made from sugar, and MAY be called Sucralose, depending on where you live. (It's a brand name here, don't know if there are patents, etc). If you can't find the gluten at a bulk store, try a natural or health food store. As for Splenda, you might be able to contact them and ask for a distributor near you... Click here for Splenda's customer service email form (http://www.splenda.com/vcrc/email/emailform.jhtml)

Hope that helps!

vance67
Thu, Jul-08-04, 22:26
I found that good ol' wheat bread only has 9 effective carbs a slice. In the induction phase, if you eat a sandwich using only one slice of bread that does no harm, in other words make a "book" (or a "foldover"). When you up your carb intake, like to 40, you can easily have two slices of bread a day (18 carbs). That's a regular sandwich. Am I wrong here?

Kristine
Sat, Jul-10-04, 14:39
Uh... yes, if you're doing Atkins. ;) You're cutting out better foods if you were to "spend" 18 g carbs on bread. It's better to spend your extra carbs on vegetables, fruit and nuts. Regular wheat bread still causes quite an insulin spike. IMHO, it's not too difficult or expensive now to buy or make your own lower carb bread. :cool:

kiwigal
Sun, Jul-18-04, 03:02
Thankyou mhampton!! What a great bread recipe..have just scoffed a slice slathered in butter and i am amazed, it is very like the REAL thing..great texture,not stretchy or spongy like 'Gabis world famous bread'.
This recipe is a real keeper, I didn't heat ingredients as you instructed! Far too lazy for that!! I used hot tap water,then butter,egg,all the dry ingredients with the yeast on top,turned bread maker on a basic 3 hour cycle..checked it during initial kneading to make sure it was forming a nice ball{had to add a little more wheat gluten flour] and then left the machine to do its thing! VERY IMPRESSED.THANK YOU!!! :thup:

MissScruff
Mon, Jan-03-05, 23:25
Ok. I made the first loaf exactly as listed and it didn't turn out...ok, I forgot to put the egg in! So, the second loaf I followed and it was really dense! So, the third loaf I said heck with it and put all the wet ingredients in, the salt, and then the dry ingredients! Then I added the yeast to the very top and let it go! It is finally baking and looks much better! I did microwave the water and melted the butter by the way! It didn't lift the lid like KiwiGal's did, but it is level with the container.

Brenjmull
Wed, Jan-05-05, 09:02
well, I have been wanting to try a lc bread in my breadmachine and had all the ingredients so I said , what the heck,go for it. Well I did try this and it is GREAT.. I did the first in the bread machine on dough cycle,it rised up nice, I put it on a baking sheet, it was the shape of a small backetball,, I was not sure how to get it into a loaf shape,, I then put it in my oven that i warmed up some and let it rise,, but it only got alittle bigger, then baked it. It is really good, I then tried aloaf and let it go for the whole cycle in the bread machine and it came out smaller and denser,, not much smaller, and it too was good. I think I will do this on dough cycle and finish it. My question is when it is done the dough cycle am I supposed to still let is rise for an hour or has that been done in the dough cycle?? I also wanted to know what your tips were to get a nice warm spot to get it to rise/? thanks again for this recipe,, I was so happy to have some yummy hot bread to dip in my sauce last night at dinner. my husband and son liked it too.

MissScruff
Wed, Jan-05-05, 12:39
I don't know! I wish I did! I have heard of some who get the lid lifting on theirs but I have yet to do that! I do know it is less than half the flour than my old french bread recipe that will still lift that lid! The bread does taste good though! I guess we have lots of research to do!!!

Azraelle
Wed, Jan-05-05, 13:27
Unless you have a programmable bread machine such as a Zojirushi, try just using the "dough" cycle, remove the dough, put it in a loaf pan in some warm place free of drafts (see page one), and let it rise ONCE! Don't punch it down--just put it in the oven (or if it's already there, increase the temp to ~350, and bake it.

MissScruff
Wed, Jan-05-05, 16:03
So, I really didn't need a bread machine and could have used my Kitchen Aid to mix the bread! What temp and how long for the bread in the oven??? What size bread pan and should I have glass or tin??? I ask too many questions, don't I?

Brenjmull
Thu, Jan-06-05, 06:12
I baked it at 350 for 30-35 nminutes,, it is good

MissScruff
Thu, Jan-06-05, 12:56
I found that good ol' wheat bread only has 9 effective carbs a slice. In the induction phase, if you eat a sandwich using only one slice of bread that does no harm, in other words make a "book" (or a "foldover"). When you up your carb intake, like to 40, you can easily have two slices of bread a day (18 carbs). That's a regular sandwich. Am I wrong here?

Call me old fashioned, but I don't believe bread belongs on Induction and not even in OWL for a while! And, the store brands are going to have stuff in them made for shelf life and will effect your insulin. If you really have to have the bread then making your own would serve you better! But, not in Induction!

MissScruff
Thu, Jan-06-05, 12:59
Thanks! If I feel better later on I will give it another go! Good thing the ingredients weren't expensive!!!!!!!! I think I have two bread pans made of glass so will give those a try! I have another question everyone! Is there a difference between the yeast that comes in packets and the yeast that comes in a jar??????

Azraelle
Thu, Jan-06-05, 13:51
I don't think there is that much of a difference whether the loaf pans are glass or enameled steel (or even aluminum)--my grandmother made successful loaves in both, though she preferred glass (pyrex), perhaps for ease of cleaning??

It is harder to find rapid rise, dough-conditioned yeast in packets, but other than that, I don't think there is any difference. I have a prejudice for the stuff in the jar, as you can't get all the yeast out of the packets, and I feel, rightly or wrongly, that it keeps better in the refrigerator in a jar--you never can tell if the packet seal has been breached, whereas you CAN tell if the lid is missing.

MissScruff
Thu, Jan-06-05, 14:38
Thanks for the info! I am going to get another experimental loaf going in a little while and will follow your advice! I love being able to have bread I know is safe! The teaspoon and a half of sugar that goes in the recipe...is that something I should be worried about??? I have been low carbing over 4 months so am not even close to Induction stage even though I am keeping my carbs pretty low right now! I read somewhere that the sugar bakes off or the yeast devours it or something like that! What is your thoughts on this? If I get on your nerves asking you bread questions then please let me know! I drive myself crazy until I understand everything about whatever I am involved in. You just have to feel badly for my family! :D

wils
Thu, Jan-06-05, 18:34
I am no bread making expert by a long shot, but I have also heard that theory, I started out using splenda, but have had better results using sugar. I rationalize that that much sugar over a whole loaf can't do that much damage. I must admit that lately I have purchased some multi grain bread, but even though the loaves I make are much smaller, they are denser and have a lot more flavour, I find the ones you buy are very dry, especially when toasted.

MissScruff
Thu, Jan-06-05, 19:09
Just after Christmas Mom and I stopped at Cracker Barrel and I had their so called low carb bread, my first bread since beginning lc in August, and it was dry and had a nasty aftertaste! So, when I bake my first loaves of low carb bread I was pretty worried about the flavor! I am more than happy with the bread I am baking, but folks keep talking about it lifting the lid and I guess I am wondering if I am doing something wrong! KiwiGal is going to bake a loaf and post a picture so I can see what her's looks like! Hopefully, she will include pics of it in the mixing process. Do you leave your bread in the bread maker or do you take it out and let it raise and bake in the oven??? And, do you follow the recipe in the first post or do you have a different one? Being a newbie to baking bread in the machine other than french bread...well I am anxious for as much input as possible! And ideas!

kiwigal
Fri, Jan-07-05, 07:48
The pressure you are putting me under Scruffy!!!..I will email you the pics and you can post them [or not!!] ...you know I have no idea how to do that !
My loaf today did raise the lid on the breadmaker [2lb] BUT..when it had finished cooking, and I lifted the lid..the top of the bread was well and truly stuck on the lid!!!! Not to worry..still a nice big loaf anyway...Now remember, I have tweaked mhamptons original recipe to this:


WHEAT BREAD [for a 2lb bread machine]

1 1/2 cups hot tap water
1 1/2 Tblspns butter
2 tspns sugar
2 medium eggs
1 1/2 cups wheat gluten flour
1 1/2 cups wheat bran
1/4 cup oatbran
1/4 cup ground linseed
1 Tblspn splenda
1 tspn salt
4 tspns bread machine yeast

Place in breadmaker in the order given,I use basic 3 hour setting, when it starts kneading, scrape inside container down with spatula..you may need to add a little more warm water or a drizzle of oil if it is not forming a nice ball [ this depends i think on how perfectly accurate your measuring is..i always check, cos' near enough is good enough for me!] Then you can just let the machine do its thing!
Sometimes i take the paddles out after the first knead..sometimes it raises the lid on the breadmaker..dont panic! it still cooks perfectly.

By my calculation Total carbs are 99 grams and fibre is 49 grams SO entire loaf is only 50 net carbs.
We have one of those thingies that you put the bread in as a cutting guide, and we get approx 18 slices!

Azraelle
Fri, Jan-07-05, 09:20
What is your elevation in NZ if you don't mind my asking, Kiwigal? It does make a difference.

Also, if you remove the paddles, that is essentially the same thing as programming a machine to use only one kneading cycle with an extra long rising time, is it not? In other words, 45min rise, 5min "rest" (which would ordinarily be the "punch-down") and another 45min rise, followed by the baking time. If that is the case, I shouldn't wonder that it lifts the lid! Do you not have problems with excessive yeasty flavour? Or do the strong flavours of the other ingredients mask or compliment that?

Thanks in advance. AJ

kiwigal
Sat, Jan-08-05, 00:17
Elevation?...Huh..heck I only live here!! A quick google says that we are between 650'-3500' above sea level...the bread doesn't taste yeasty at all...just delicious!..Listen,I have 2 friends that have tried making this bread, one in the same street as me..and the other a 2 minute drive away..and this hasn't happened to them!..I think it depends on getting to know your bread maker!..mine is an 'el cheapo' and I can't programme it to do ONE knead..otherwise..hello!!..I would do so..hence the need to remove the paddles! BUT..even when I forget to take them out [if I'm busy] and it kneads twice..it still lifts the lid sometimes..so, go figure!

MissScruff
Sat, Jan-08-05, 00:20
Ok...I am feeling like a complete idiot! The bread machine I got for Christmas has the "One Knead" I am pretty sure and so will give that a go! And, I need to pick up linseed so I can try the recipe you have posted and see if I can lift the lid! A challenge....I am a woman obsessed and will not rest until the lid of my bread machine has been lifted!

Azraelle
Sat, Jan-08-05, 08:22
Elevation?...Huh..heck I only live here!! A quick google says that we are between 650'-3500' above sea level...the bread doesn't taste yeasty at all...just delicious!..Listen,I have 2 friends that have tried making this bread, one in the same street as me..and the other a 2 minute drive away..and this hasn't happened to them!..I think it depends on getting to know your bread maker!..mine is an 'el cheapo' and I can't programme it to do ONE knead..otherwise..hello!!..I would do so..hence the need to remove the paddles! BUT..even when I forget to take them out [if I'm busy] and it kneads twice..it still lifts the lid sometimes..so, go figure!
Thank you for your reply. I HAD an 'el cheapo', but never thought of removing the paddle, singular. I was very temporarily flush with some extra cash about a year ago, so I decided to blow it on a Zojirushi, and gave the el cheapo to a Japanese friend who didn't have one. Haven't used it for several months, though--am going to give your recipe a try, except that I'll try using rice bran instead of the wheat bran, since I have plenty of the former, and none of the latter, and am NOT flush with cash anymore!

kiwigal
Sat, Jan-08-05, 21:38
am going to give your recipe a try, except that I'll try using rice bran instead of the wheat bran, since I have plenty of the former, and none of the latter, and am NOT flush with cash anymore!
Let us know what it turns out like..If its good, I may give it a go with the rice bran too as it doesn't add that much extra in the way of carbs!

Azraelle
Mon, Jan-10-05, 08:27
With one rising, and 1 Tablespoon of sugar, instead of 2 teaspoons, (90 minutes), it turned out very spongy, somewhat bitter (yeasty, perhaps?), but at least it was not dense as a brick, and it did rise a great deal (no it didn't lift the lid, but my breadmaker has a generous amount of space, both inside the pan, and above it). I will try again with two risings and see what happens. I think that for my taste, a bit more splenda would help too.

kiwigal
Tue, Jan-11-05, 03:51
Eeeewww!..Bitters not good!!!..Better luck next time!...maybe you could try a combo of wheat and rice bran? :)

preck1378
Sun, Aug-31-08, 18:42
Just wanted to subscribe to this post for later when I'm off induction.

deniselisa
Sun, Aug-31-08, 19:58
I want to try this but possibly use flax meal instead of the wheat bran. Has anyone tried this?