yeast allergy diet

[Lacustral]

a doctor writes on http://www.nutramed.com/allergy/candida.htm

Colon candida are fed by *milk sugar* and starches in the
diet which reach the colon undigested, not free sugars in
food which tend to be absorbed before reaching the yeast.
On a food holiday, the food supply to the Candida and all
other colon microorganisms is reduced and the population
decreases. The use of an elemental nutrient formula, such
as Alpha ENF, with high glucose content, is associated with
reduction or disappearance of candida in the colon.

Any comments?

i don't claim to have candidiasis, but i have a candida
allergy, an immediate skin-test reaction to candida. A couple
of allergists have recommended cutting down on sugar, "it
feeds the yeast".

Anybody know the reality of this? my impression was that what
the doctor said on the web page is right, that simple sugars
get absorbed really fast, don't make it to the gut.

But then, maybe eating simple sugars feeds Candida in
the throat.

So what's the science behind it, anyone know?

thanks laura

[Jim]

Lacustral wrote:

> a doctor writes on
> http://www.nutramed.com/allergy/candida.htm
>
> Colon candida are fed by *milk sugar* and starches in the
> diet which reach the colon undigested, not free sugars in
> food which tend to be absorbed before reaching the yeast.
> On a food holiday, the food supply to the Candida and all
> other colon microorganisms is reduced and the population
> decreases. The use of an elemental nutrient formula, such
> as Alpha ENF, with high glucose content, is associated
> with reduction or disappearance of candida in the colon.
>
> Any comments?
>
> i don't claim to have candidiasis, but i have a candida
> allergy, an immediate skin-test reaction to candida.

As the article states on that web page that a Candida skin
test is used as a control to check and make sure it is
positive. Everybody should be positive and if you are not then
your immune status is poor and other skin testing is invalid
such as TB skin testing. Many HIV patients have TB but a
negative skin test and the only way to see if the skin test is
reliably negative is to check for skin test with Candida. If
the Candida skin test is negative then the negative skin test
with TB is suspect and invalid. The entire world has a
positive skin test except HIV and decreased immune system
people so to connect it with disease is a little strange.

> A couple of allergists have recommended cutting down on
> sugar, "it feeds the yeast".
>
> Anybody know the reality of this? my impression was that
> what the doctor said on the web page is right, that simple
> sugars get absorbed really fast, don't make it to the gut.
>
> But then, maybe eating simple sugars feeds Candida in
> the throat.
>
> So what's the science behind it, anyone know?
>
> thanks laura

[Joel M. Ei]

Lacustral <lark@adore.lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:b3thcb$r0a$1@admiral.lightlink.com...
> a doctor writes on
> http://www.nutramed.com/allergy/candida.htm
>
> Colon candida are fed by *milk sugar* and starches in the
> diet which reach the colon undigested, not free sugars in
> food which tend to be absorbed before reaching the yeast.
> On a food holiday, the food supply to the Candida and all
> other colon microorganisms is reduced and the population
> decreases. The use of an elemental nutrient formula, such
> as Alpha ENF, with high glucose content, is associated
> with reduction or disappearance of candida in the colon.
>
>
> Any comments?

Yep... this is beginning like another enema post. Am I right?

>
> i don't claim to have candidiasis, but i have a candida
> allergy, an immediate skin-test reaction to candida. A
> couple of allergists have recommended cutting down on sugar,
> "it feeds the yeast".
>
> Anybody know the reality of this? my impression was that
> what the doctor said on the web page is right, that simple
> sugars get absorbed really fast, don't make it to the gut.
>
> But then, maybe eating simple sugars feeds Candida in
> the throat.
>
> So what's the science behind it, anyone know?
>
> thanks laura

[Lacustral]

Jim (Jimmytime@hotmail.com) wrote:

>As the article states on that web page that a Candida skin
>test is used as a control to check and make sure it is
>positive. Everybody should be positive and if you are not
>then your immune status is poor

No. i said an "immediate skin test response to Candida".

i seem to remember being told, actually, the allergist doesn't
care about skin reaction that appear later than 15 minutes or
whatever it is.

But, they do make something of it if you react quickly. "you
might be allergic to yeast in foods", "try eating less
sugar", etc.

[Lacustral]

I think it is standard for allergists to test for Candida
allergy, actually.

i'm getting allergy shots for it, among other things.

But, i just wanted to know, what really is the best diet to
discourage Candida?

from http://www.vaentallergy.com/yeast_sensitivity.htm
(ENT doctor)

YEAST SENSITIVITY

The term yeast sensitivity refers to an allergy to yeast
that may grow on one's body. This yeast may be found in the
G I tract, in the vagina, as thrush in the oral cavity, as
jock itch in the groin, as athlete's foot between the toes,
or under the fingernails or toenails. The yeast infection
may be the result of excessive yeast or sugar in the diet
or may occur after the use of antibiotics or steroids. The
most common yeast found on the body are Candida,
Trichophyton, and Epidermophyton.

The yeast itself may cause symptoms such as itching,
burning or skin breakdown. However, the patient may develop
an allergy to the yeast that may result in further
symptoms, often worse than those caused by the yeast
itself. The target organs of this allergy may be located
far from the site of the yeast infection. This process is
known as the id reaction. The most common site of symptoms
is the external auditory canal. The patient may experience
eczema of the ear canals with chronic itching, flaky
build-up of canal skin, and rash or skin breakdown with
drainage or infection. The nasal cavity is also frequently
affected, resulting in classic nasal allergy symptoms, such
as nasal congestion, runny nose and post nasal drip. Other
symptoms may include rash or hives on other parts of the
body, chronic fatigue, and poor concentration.

The mechanism of the id reaction is similar to that of
classic inhalant allergies such as ragweed or dust mite.
Therefore it responds very well to conventional allergy
immunotherapy or shots. Once a true yeast sensitivity has
been diagnosed by allergy skin testing, a series of
injections are given weekly until the patient builds up to
a maintenance dose. At that time, the interval between
shots may gradually be increased. Response to immunotherapy
is usually quite good, especially if attempts are also made
to reduce the yeast load on the body. This may be done with
antifungal medications, such as Nystatin, Diflucan,
Nizoral, or Sporonox. Some of these medicines may require
blood tests to monitor liver function. Other ways to reduce
the yeast load are to decrease the amount of yeast in the
diet and to limit the consumption of sugar and fruits,
which provide nourishment for the yeast.

[Alf Christ]

On 2 Mar 2003 21:13:55 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
(Lacustral) wrote:

>But, i just wanted to know, what really is the best diet to
>discourage Candida?

A diet that boost the immune system. Candida overgrowth is a
result of immune system deficiency. And is mostly seen in AIDS
patient or diabetic patients.

But all people has lot of candida around. It is just
kept under control by immune system (but all tests
should be positive)

[Lacustral]

Alf Christophersen (alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no) wrote:

>A diet that boost the immune system. Candida overgrowth is a
>result of immune system deficiency.

i don't have candida overgrowth so far as i know. Except
possibly that i was on antibiotics.

What i have is an *allergy* to candida.

[Jim]

Lacustral wrote:

> I think it is standard for allergists to test for Candida
> allergy, actually.
>
> i'm getting allergy shots for it, among other things.
>
> But, i just wanted to know, what really is the best diet to
> discourage Candida?

Candida is normal flora and only when it gets out of control
meaning that their is overgrowth is when you can get problems.
An allergy on the other hand when tested for in an immediate
skin test is a measure of an allergic reaction to the mere
presence of yeast and not in large number. You will never
completely eliminate an allergy. You can avoid a bee sting but
not yeast.

>
>
> from http://www.vaentallergy.com/yeast_sensitivity.htm
> (ENT doctor)
>
> YEAST SENSITIVITY
>
> The term yeast sensitivity refers to an allergy to yeast
> that may grow on one's body. This yeast may be found in
> the G I tract, in the vagina, as thrush in the oral
> cavity, as jock itch in the groin, as athlete's foot
> between the toes, or under the fingernails or toenails.
> The yeast infection may be the result of excessive yeast
> or sugar in the diet or may occur after the use of
> antibiotics or steroids. The most common yeast found on
> the body are Candida, Trichophyton, and Epidermophyton.

First of all Trichophyton, Epidermophyton and Microsporin
species are skin dermatophytes true fungi and not yeast. That
is either a misprint or misrepresentation.Factual errors like
that should raise a red flag.

>
>
> The yeast itself may cause symptoms such as itching,
> burning or skin breakdown. However, the patient may
> develop an allergy to the yeast that may result in
> further symptoms, often worse than those caused by the
> yeast itself. The target organs of this allergy may be
> located far from the site of the yeast infection. This
> process is known as the id reaction. The most common site
> of symptoms is the external auditory canal. The patient
> may experience eczema of the ear canals with chronic
> itching, flaky build-up of canal skin, and rash or skin
> breakdown with drainage or infection. The nasal cavity is
> also frequently affected, resulting in classic nasal
> allergy symptoms, such as nasal congestion, runny nose
> and post nasal drip. Other symptoms may include rash or
> hives on other parts of the body, chronic fatigue, and
> poor concentration.

As far as nasal problems and allergies by far is Aspergillus
another true fungi and not yeast.

>
>
> The mechanism of the id reaction is similar to that of
> classic inhalant allergies such as ragweed or dust mite.
> Therefore it responds very well to conventional allergy
> immunotherapy or shots. Once a true yeast sensitivity has
> been diagnosed by allergy skin testing, a series of
> injections are given weekly until the patient builds up
> to a maintenance dose. At that time, the interval between
> shots may gradually be increased. Response to
> immunotherapy is usually quite good, especially if
> attempts are also made to reduce the yeast load on the
> body. This may be done with antifungal medications, such
> as Nystatin, Diflucan, Nizoral, or Sporonox. Some of
> these medicines may require blood tests to monitor liver
> function. Other ways to reduce the yeast load are to
> decrease the amount of yeast in the diet and to limit the
> consumption of sugar and fruits, which provide
> nourishment for the yeast.

Good luck with that you might want to try hydrocolonic
therapy. Keep in mind that skin, mucous membranes colonization
does not come from GI infections. It is the local micro
environment that promotes the floral change.

[Alf Christ]

On 2 Mar 2003 23:01:04 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
(Lacustral) wrote:

>
>What i have is an *allergy* to candida.

Who says that (except yourself) ?? A homeopat? Or a
naturopat?? Or someone else who want to empty your wallet

[Lacustral]

Jim (Jimmytime@hotmail.com) wrote:

>Candida is normal flora and only when it gets out of control
>meaning that their is overgrowth is when you can get
>problems. An allergy on the other hand when tested for in an
>immediate skin test is a measure of an allergic reaction to
>the mere presence of yeast and not in large number. You will
>never completely eliminate an allergy. You can avoid a bee
>sting but not yeast.

Surely, the idea of "starving yeast" by diet is valid?

i mean, if somebody ate a low-carbohydrate diet, that should
result in less yeast, because they eat mostly carbohydrates
and not protein.

i don't want to eat a low-carbohydrate diet -- but perhaps
that other doctor is right that some carbohydrates just "don't
get to the yeast". Or maybe sugar encourages them somehow. Why
sugar? i always wondered, if carbohydrates are supposed to be
split into simple sugars quite quickly in the stomach, why
does it matter what kind of carbohydrate you eat?

Is there any scientific support for the idea that eating sugar
encourages Candida?

i think that Candida might be causing me problems. i have been
eating a clove of garlic with meals, and an hour or two later
i get red, itchy eyes and a woozy feeling. Garlic is supposed
to kill yeast. antihistamines help so i think it's an allergic
reaction. i'm eating a very varied rotation diet so i doubt
the food outside of garlic is doing it, since a nubmer of
different meals with garlic have done it to me. *maybe* i'm
allergic to garlic ...

a few years ago i tried taking caprylic acid. i was only
taking one of the capsules per day, i think they recommended 2
or 3 ... but i got sick taking it, it felt like the flu, and i
stopped. The flu-like feeling is usually attributed to the
yeast dying off and it's supposed to go away after a while,
but i didn't feel up having a bout of "flu".

So if dead yeast causes intense reactions, i think a normal
yeast population might be giving me low-level chronic
problems. and i do have low-level chronic problems of the sort
that tend to be mold allergy. decreasing the GI yeast somehow
and seeing if i feel better seems worth trying.

the ENT doctor i quoted is not the allergist i've been seeing.

>Good luck with that you might want to try hydrocolonic
>therapy. Keep in mind that skin, mucous membranes
>colonization does not come from GI infections. It is the
>local micro environment that promotes the floral change.

thanks for the suggestion ... i hope the allergy shots, which
include yeast, will help. i don't seem to have much skin or
mucous membrane yeast, possibly a little. i might have yeast
in my throat, an allergist told me once that 80% of people
have Candida in the throat. And possibly THAT causes systemic
allergic reactions (fatigue etc.) i am not so concerned with
yeast colonization that doesn't cause systemic reactions.

laura

[Joel M. Ei]

Lacustral <lark@adore.lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:b400rh$aer$1@admiral.lightlink.com...
> Jim (Jimmytime@hotmail.com) wrote:
>
> >Candida is normal flora and only when it gets out of
> >control meaning that their is overgrowth is when you can
> >get problems. An allergy on the other hand when tested for
> >in an immediate skin test is a measure of an allergic
> >reaction to the mere presence of yeast and not in large
> >number. You will never completely eliminate an allergy. You
> >can avoid a bee sting but not yeast.
>
> Surely, the idea of "starving yeast" by diet is valid?

REPLY:

Careful there ........ The PETA people go wild when they hear
of this kind of thing .....

Joel

>
> i mean, if somebody ate a low-carbohydrate diet, that should
> result in less yeast, because they eat mostly carbohydrates
> and not protein.
>
> i don't want to eat a low-carbohydrate diet -- but perhaps
> that other doctor is right that some carbohydrates just
> "don't get to the yeast". Or maybe sugar encourages them
> somehow. Why sugar? i always wondered, if carbohydrates are
> supposed to be split into simple sugars quite quickly in
> the stomach, why does it matter what kind of carbohydrate
> you eat?
>
> Is there any scientific support for the idea that eating
> sugar encourages Candida?
>
> i think that Candida might be causing me problems. i have
> been eating a clove of garlic with meals, and an hour or two
> later i get red, itchy eyes and a woozy feeling. Garlic is
> supposed to kill yeast. antihistamines help so i think it's
> an allergic reaction. i'm eating a very varied rotation diet
> so i doubt the food outside of garlic is doing it, since a
> nubmer of different meals with garlic have done it to me.
> *maybe* i'm allergic to garlic ...
>
> a few years ago i tried taking caprylic acid. i was only
> taking one of the capsules per day, i think they recommended
> 2 or 3 ... but i got sick taking it, it felt like the flu,
> and i stopped. The flu-like feeling is usually attributed to
> the yeast dying off and it's supposed to go away after a
> while, but i didn't feel up having a bout of "flu".
>
> So if dead yeast causes intense reactions, i think a normal
> yeast population might be giving me low-level chronic
> problems. and i do have low-level chronic problems of the
> sort that tend to be mold allergy. decreasing the GI yeast
> somehow and seeing if i feel better seems worth trying.
>
> the ENT doctor i quoted is not the allergist i've been
> seeing.
>
> >Good luck with that you might want to try hydrocolonic
> >therapy. Keep in mind that skin, mucous membranes
> >colonization does not come from GI infections. It is the
> >local micro environment that promotes the floral change.
>
> thanks for the suggestion ... i hope the allergy shots,
> which include yeast, will help. i don't seem to have much
> skin or mucous membrane yeast, possibly a little. i might
> have yeast in my throat, an allergist told me once that 80%
> of people have Candida in the throat. And possibly THAT
> causes systemic allergic reactions (fatigue etc.) i am not
> so concerned with yeast colonization that doesn't cause
> systemic reactions.
>
> laura

[Lacustral]

Alf Christophersen (alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no) wrote:
>On 2 Mar 2003 23:01:04 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
>(Lacustral)

>>What i have is an *allergy* to candida.

>Who says that (except yourself) ?? A homeopat? Or a
>naturopat?? Or someone else who want to empty your wallet

Alf, Two separate allergists have told me this. I didn't seek
out a Candida-oriented allergist, either. i got skin tests and
got an immediate reaction to Candida, among other things.

So far as i can tell, it is a pretty standard part of
allergy testing. They tell you to avoid dietary yeast and to
avoid sugar. i am getting allergy shots for Candida among
other things.

i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other doctors
have said that's bullshit.

So i wonder what a good diet to discourage Candida would be,
other than a low-carbohydrate diet.

laura

[Alf Christ]

On 3 Mar 2003 16:50:49 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
(Lacustral) wrote:

>i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other doctors
>have said that's bullshit.

That's why I'm very skeptical to those 'allergists'. If
correct, you should be constantly in allergic reaction mode,
because it is simply impossible to avoid 100% contact with
the organism.

[Gym Bob]

I am not in disagreement with your practicioners or your
beliefs. I participate in these alternative forms and believe
in them 95%.

but

You have found that your SKIN is allergic to candida only.
Think, if they poured your hydrochloric acid from your
stomache on your skin! What would happen?

If you want to find food allergies the closest thing is
provocative allergy tests under the tongue. Your skin tells
only your skin allaergies. Don't eat with your skin.

What the hell is an "allergy shot"? I bet no naturopathic doc
told you that one.

"Lacustral" <lark@adore.lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:b40159$aer$2@admiral.lightlink.com...
> Two separate allergists have told me this. I didn't seek out
> a Candida-oriented allergist, either. i got skin tests and
> got an immediate reaction to Candida, among other things.
>
> So far as i can tell, it is a pretty standard part of
> allergy testing. They tell you to avoid dietary yeast and to
> avoid sugar. i am getting allergy shots for Candida among
> other things.
>
> i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other
> doctors have said that's bullshit.
>
> So i wonder what a good diet to discourage Candida would be,
> other than a low-carbohydrate diet.
>
> laura

[Jim]

Alf Christophersen wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2003 16:50:49 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
> (Lacustral) wrote:
>
> >i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other
> >doctors have said that's bullshit.
>
> That's why I'm very skeptical to those 'allergists'. If
> correct, you should be constantly in allergic reaction mode,
> because it is simply impossible to avoid 100% contact with
> the organism.

That's what I was basically trying to say. The sugar
connection is derived from the association of diabetics and
Candida infections especially in the urine. The theory being
that the free glucose in the urine generates the Candida
growth. High glucose also alters immunity by interfering with
cell function. This is more an infection rather than an
allergic reaction. In an allergic reaction you have IgE
antibodies attached to mast cells and when the antigen
attaches to the IgE then the mast cell degranulates the
histamine. You end up with either local or systemic
manifestations of this release. In the gut histamine causes
diarrhea. Non absorbable sugars such as in lactase deficiency
you also get diarrhea although not of allergic origin. Any
change or imbalance in the normal flora of the gut can also
cause diarrhea with some deadly antibiotic induced bacterial
over growths. The Candida and other yeast simply go along for
the ride. Yeast are only able to metabolize some sugars and
not all. That is one way in which they are able to derive
species. There are other yeast that people have had trouble
with and as I said they eat different things.Allergy shots are
done in order to establish a high IgG antibody titer so as to
clear the allergen away from finding an IgE antibody. It has
mixed results and success. Keep in mind that these antibodies
do not destroy yeast as they are kept in check with cellular
immunity as any HIV patient knows. I share your skepticism
about skin testing and allergists. I went to one years ago
when I have child hood asthma. They did the whole skin testing
thing and found many allergies. I still eat those things and
only the ones which really hit me hard like strawberries do I
avoid. The connection between skin testing and food allergies
is questionable and a more empirical approach is better.

[Lacustral]

So -- i am still wondering, to reduce Candida in GI tract,
what sort of carbohydrates should one eat? It's not a simple
question -- how much Candida is living in the throat? Of the
carbohydrates that one eats, how much of each type is exposed
to Candida in the intestines? Would Candida in the small
intestine vs. large intestine be more likely to causes
systemic allergic reactions?

Outside of trying to starve the yeast in the GI tract, one can
dose them with antifungal drugs, and there are yeast-killing
foods one can eat.

Alf Christophersen wrote:

> That's why I'm very skeptical to those 'allergists'. If
> correct, you should be constantly in allergic reaction mode,
> because it is simply impossible to avoid 100% contact with
> the organism.

My experience with a lot of allergies (I have a lot) is that
if you are constantly exposed to the allergen, your body sort
of adapts and you have problems, but they aren't clearly
associated with the allergen.

Years ago before I knew i had a dust allergy, I was sick a
lot, but I never noticed more problems after vacuum cleaning.
After i started trying to cut down on my dust exposure, I had
obvious problems after vacuuming.

Similarly with food sensitivities (allergic or not). They tell
you to avoid the food for a week, then try eating a lot (you
do NOT do this if you have a bad IgE mediated allergy). After
you eat it, there should be obvious symptoms if you're having
a problem with it.

So, it seems quite likely that yeast food allergies would work
the same way.

There is also the concept of an "allergic load", there is a
threshold of allergen exposure to have a reaction and if you
are chronically exposed to one allergen, you are more likely
to react to other allergens. I have multiple allergies, not
just Candida.

Jimmytime wrote:
> That's what I was basically trying to say. The sugar
> connection is derived from the association of diabetics and
> Candida infections especially in the urine. The theory being
> that the free glucose in the urine generates the Candida
> growth. High glucose also alters immunity by interfering
> with cell function.

How would this imply that nondiabetics should avoid sugar to
reduce Candida? Do they mean avoid sugars with a high glycemic
index, then?

I bet that not eating too much milk reduces Candida! If you
eat too much, i think the lactose makes it to the colon,
producing Candida and gas.

> Yeast are only able to metabolize some sugars and not all.

Are there some sugars that aren't appealing to yeast in
general? Do they eat fructose?

There is Candida in the small intestine as well as the large
intestine, so they WOULD be exposed to sugars from
carbohydrates you eat.

> I share your skepticism about skin testing and allergists. I
> went to one years ago when I have child hood asthma. They
> did the whole skin testing thing and found many allergies. I
> still eat those things and only the ones which really hit me
> hard like strawberries do I avoid. The connection between
> skin testing and food allergies is questionable and a more
> empirical approach is better.

That's true, both that you can react on a skin test and not to
eating the food and vice versa. The most reliable way to find
food allergies is to try elimination diet then food challenge.
You won't necessarily have obvious reactions to a food if you
eat it a lot.

But for me with a Candida allergy, i need to try to
eliminate it first!

I don't mean to knock alternative practicioners, there is
probably merit in alternative medicine. But, it's a good idea
to try a regular doctor first.

Laura

[Lacustral]

>Jimmytime wrote:

>> I share your skepticism about skin testing and allergists.
>> I went to one years ago when I have child hood asthma. They
>> did the whole skin testing thing and found many allergies.
>> I still eat those things and only the ones which really hit
>> me hard like strawberries do I avoid. The connection
>> between skin testing and food allergies is questionable and
>> a more empirical approach is better.

There are also delayed reactions to food, including delayed
IgE mediated reactions.

I think i'm allergic to some yeasts in food, i get a woozy
feeling. So probably, with my Candida allergy on the skin
test, i do have some reaction to the Candida in the GI
tract. i don't know how much Candida is in the GI tract vs.
yeasts in food.

I wonder if the Candida allergy could cause leaky gut, which
means that the gut wall lets proteins into the blood that
haven't been broken into amino acids, which encourages
reactions to food. I did an elimination diet to check for food
sensitivities, and so far i reacted to milk and wheat.

Laura

[Jim]

Lacustral wrote:

> So -- i am still wondering, to reduce Candida in GI tract,
> what sort of carbohydrates should one eat? It's not a simple
> question -- how much Candida is living in the throat? Of the
> carbohydrates that one eats, how much of each type is
> exposed to Candida in the intestines? Would Candida in the
> small intestine vs. large intestine be more likely to causes
> systemic allergic reactions?

You would have to ask the proponents of that stuff for those
answers and I know they have a book out there. You might want
to buy it. As for C. albicans and what it can eat as far as
carbohydrates here it goes.It utilizes Dextrose, Maltose,
Sucrose and Tehalose. It does not use Lactose, Raffinose and
Inositol. It can also ferment Galactose. Only monosaccharides
glucose and galactose are absorbed from the intestine. Most of
the enzymes needed to breakdown all the other sugars are
located on the brush border of the intestinal epithelium.
Candida can utilize both of these sugars so you would have to
starve to death in order to avoid feeding the Candida.

>
>
> Outside of trying to starve the yeast in the GI tract, one
> can dose them with antifungal drugs, and there are
> yeast-killing foods one can eat.

You can do that but they will come back as they are everywhere
and are a part of the flora.

>
>
> Alf Christophersen wrote:
>
> > That's why I'm very skeptical to those 'allergists'. If
> > correct, you should be constantly in allergic reaction
> > mode, because it is simply impossible to avoid 100%
> > contact with the organism.
>
> My experience with a lot of allergies (I have a lot) is that
> if you are constantly exposed to the allergen, your body
> sort of adapts and you have problems, but they aren't
> clearly associated with the allergen.

Part of the ploy to remove cause and effect. The other ploy is
to state that there is no accurate way to test for it.

>
>
> Years ago before I knew i had a dust allergy, I was sick a
> lot, but I never noticed more problems after vacuum
> cleaning. After i started trying to cut down on my dust
> exposure, I had obvious problems after vacuuming.
>
> Similarly with food sensitivities (allergic or not). They
> tell you to avoid the food for a week, then try eating a lot
> (you do NOT do this if you have a bad IgE mediated allergy).
> After you eat it, there should be obvious symptoms if you're
> having a problem with it.
>
> So, it seems quite likely that yeast food allergies would
> work the same way.

In some aspects that is right.

>
>
> There is also the concept of an "allergic load", there is a
> threshold of allergen exposure to have a reaction and if you
> are chronically exposed to one allergen, you are more likely
> to react to other allergens. I have multiple allergies, not
> just Candida.

Get an IgE level and eso count with some other tests to get an
idea on this load.

>
>
> Jimmytime wrote:
> > That's what I was basically trying to say. The sugar
> > connection is derived from the association of diabetics
> > and Candida infections especially in the urine. The theory
> > being that the free glucose in the urine generates the
> > Candida growth. High glucose also alters immunity by
> > interfering with cell function.
>
> How would this imply that nondiabetics should avoid sugar to
> reduce Candida? Do they mean avoid sugars with a high
> glycemic index, then?

No, sugar in the urine is not normal only that it is being
used by the Candida. Sugar in the gut is normal along with a
few Candida kept in check by the other normal flora.

>
>
> I bet that not eating too much milk reduces Candida! If you
> eat too much, i think the lactose makes it to the colon,
> producing Candida and gas.

Not Candida albicans but indeed Candida pseudotropicalis can.

>
>
> > Yeast are only able to metabolize some sugars and not all.
>
> Are there some sugars that aren't appealing to yeast in
> general? Do they eat fructose?

Fructose is derived from sucrose and galactose is derived
from lactose which are both normal components of the human
diet. I don't know about fructose but galactose has been
mentioned above.

>
>
> There is Candida in the small intestine as well as the large
> intestine, so they WOULD be exposed to sugars from
> carbohydrates you eat.
>
> > I share your skepticism about skin testing and allergists.
> > I went to one years ago when I have child hood asthma.
> > They did the whole skin testing thing and found many
> > allergies. I still eat those things and only the ones
> > which really hit me hard like strawberries do I avoid. The
> > connection between skin testing and food allergies is
> > questionable and a more empirical approach is better.
>
> That's true, both that you can react on a skin test and not
> to eating the food and vice versa. The most reliable way to
> find food allergies is to try elimination diet then food
> challenge. You won't necessarily have obvious reactions to a
> food if you eat it a lot.

Obvious reactions are the ones you should care about.

>
>
> But for me with a Candida allergy, i need to try to
> eliminate it first!

Good luck on that.

>
>
> I don't mean to knock alternative practicioners, there is
> probably merit in alternative medicine. But, it's a good
> idea to try a regular doctor first.
>
> Laura

[Moosh:)]

On 3 Mar 2003 16:50:49 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
(Lacustral) wrote:

>Alf Christophersen (alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no)
>wrote:
>>On 2 Mar 2003 23:01:04 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
>>(Lacustral)
>
>>>What i have is an *allergy* to candida.
>
>>Who says that (except yourself) ?? A homeopat? Or a
>>naturopat?? Or someone else who want to empty your wallet
>
>Alf, Two separate allergists have told me this.

Are these allergists medically qualified where you are?

>I didn't seek out a Candida-oriented allergist, either. i got
>skin tests and got an immediate reaction to Candida, among
>other things.

Doesn't everyone get this?

>So far as i can tell, it is a pretty standard part of
>allergy testing. They tell you to avoid dietary yeast and to
>avoid sugar.

Both ridiculously impossible instructions.

>i am getting allergy shots for Candida among other things.
>
>i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other doctors
>have said that's bullshit.

That's what I would have said. Just practically, how would you
avoid it? A very restricted unhealthy diet, I would assume.

>So i wonder what a good diet to discourage Candida would be,
>other than a low-carbohydrate diet.

No idea. Avoid unnecessary antibiotics, and perhaps some
alteration of your gut pH?

Moosh:)

[Moosh:)]

On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:52:48 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On 3 Mar 2003 16:50:49 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
>(Lacustral) wrote:
>
>>i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other
>>doctors have said that's bullshit.
>
>That's why I'm very skeptical to those 'allergists'. If
>correct, you should be constantly in allergic reaction mode,
>because it is simply impossible to avoid 100% contact with
>the organism.

Yep, it's EVERYWHERE.

Moosh:)

[Alf Christ]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:10:04 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>>Alf, Two separate allergists have told me this.
>
>Are these allergists medically qualified where you are?

Having been offered the possiblity to buy a grade of medical
doctor from some obscure 'university' in the US, I'm not
surprised if there are some 'home-made' allergists around
over there :-)

Even over here there are now and then found people who have
falsified papers. One doctor managed to work in a district for
more than 2 years and was very popular btw. his patients until
governmental representants managed to prove that he had
falsified all papers and was promptly jailed. But patients
protested heavily, to no avail.

(Papers from a foreign country)

[Lacustral]

> Lacustral wrote:

>> So -- i am still wondering, to reduce Candida in GI tract,
>> what sort of carbohydrates should one eat? It's not a
>> simple question -- how much Candida is living in the
>> throat? Of the carbohydrates that one eats, how much of
>> each type is exposed to Candida in the intestines? Would
>> Candida in the small intestine vs. large intestine be more
>> likely to causes systemic allergic reactions?

> You would have to ask the proponents of that stuff for those
> answers and
I
> know they have a book out there. You might want to buy it.
> As for C. albicans and what it can eat as far as
> carbohydrates here it goes.It utilizes Dextrose, Maltose,
> Sucrose and Tehalose. It does not use Lactose, Raffinose and
> Inositol. It can also ferment Galactose. Only
> monosaccharides glucose and galactose are absorbed from the
> intestine. Most of the enzymes needed to breakdown all the
> other sugars are located on the brush border of the
> intestinal epithelium. Candida can utilize both of these
> sugars so you would have to starve to death in order to
> avoid feeding the Candida.

Ok, does anybody know if Candida eats fructose? i'm
particularly interested in that because i have used fructose
for a long time, because of its low glycemic index.

I've heard that fructose goes into the bloodstream and it is
converted in the liver, slowly, into glucose.

You can avoid feeding Candida somewhat by eating more protein
and fat and less carbohydrate.

I know the books about yeast and have read a lot of them. I'm
skeptical about the scientific basis. I have never heard ANY
justification for the "don't eat sugar" part, people say "it
feeds the yeast" -- but any carbohydrate "feeds the yeast". i
crossposted to misc.health.alternative because maybe others on
the low-sugar diet know something about why low sugar is
supposed to decrease Candida.

I'm also skeptical because i hear "it takes months for the
low-sugar diet to work". That sounds suspicious, because if
the yeast weren't being fed well they should become less,
quickly! And, many people on the low-sugar Candida diet are
taking antifungal drugs.

If one can get systemic allergic reactions by feeding Candida
in the throat, sugar intake might be relevant.

>> > I share your skepticism about skin testing and
>> > allergists. I went to one years ago when I have child
>> > hood asthma. They did the whole skin testing thing and
>> > found many allergies. I still eat those things and only
>> > the ones which really hit me hard like strawberries do I
>> > avoid. The connection between skin testing and food
>> > allergies is
questionable
>> > and a more empirical approach is better.
>>
>> That's true, both that you can react on a skin test and not
>> to eating
the
>> food and vice versa. The most reliable way to find food
>> allergies is
to
>> try elimination diet then food challenge. You won't
>> necessarily have obvious reactions to a food if you eat
>> it a lot.

>Obvious reactions are the ones you should care about.

That isn't true *at all*. That's why people need allergy
testing. i was sick, in bed a lot, for about 6 weeks a year
with allergies, not knowing what caused it. Then, i was
allergic to dust and Candida. The sicknesses went away after i
cut down on my dust exposure and ate less yeast from food.

recently, for many months i found my mind just wasn't working
well, like thinking in sludge, i was going to sleep at 8 pm,
no energy -- i tried an elimination diet & food challenge with
milk and wheat and found i was reacting to them (mental sludge
feeling, sick).

There have been double-blind studies done for food
intolerances and they show they aren't a psychogenic effect.

*absolutely*, allergens can have serious effects on you and it
won't be obvious why! This isn't a ploy, it is reality in my
experience.

in reply to Moosh, of course you can't eliminate a lot of
allergens completely. But it helps a lot to cut down on them.

Laura

[Jake Byrne]

lark@adore.lightlink.com (Lacustral) wrote in message
> Ok, does anybody know if Candida eats fructose? i'm
> particularly interested in that because i have used fructose
> for a long time, because of its low glycemic index.

"Over the past decade or so, various studies have suggested
that the body treats fructose in a markedly different way
from the simple sugar glucose. What's worrying is that
fructose is selectively shunted towards the liver, and the
formation of fats.

For a start, it is metabolized in the liver to provide one of
the building blocks of triglycerides. But a fructose-rich diet
also directly stimulates the liver to secrete those dangerous
triglycerides, just as bombarding the liver with insulin does.

"Fructose could be mimicking what I think frequent
insulin secretion does," Zammit explains. In the short
term it could promote insulin resistance in muscle-the
first step to syndrome X-and in the long term it could
promote heart disease.

Not everyone agrees that fructose is dangerous. Some say
there's not enough in our diet to have any noticeable effect.
But a wealth of animal studies support the idea.

Feed a lab rat fructose, at levels comparable to those in
human diets, and it develops insulin resistance, even if it
stays lean.

Last year, researchers at the University of Toronto in Canada
fed a high-fructose diet to Syrian golden hamsters, which have
a fat metabolism remarkably similar to humans'. In a matter of
weeks, the hamsters developed syndrome X-including high
triglyceride levels and insulin resistance.

And a powerful study of fructose's effects on humans was
published last year. Clinical nutritionist John Bantle and his
colleagues at the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis fed a
diet containing 17 per cent of the total energy as fructose to
two dozen healthy volunteers for six weeks. "

http://www.mercola.com/2001/dec/12/syndrome_x.htm

I'd forget about the low glycemic index. It's worse for you
than glucose.

Jake Byrne

[Gym Bob]

Why don't you ask your car mechanic about candida. He may
know more.

"Lacustral" <lark@adore.lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:b40159$aer$2@admiral.lightlink.com...
> Alf Christophersen
> (alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no) wrote:
> >On 2 Mar 2003 23:01:04 GMT, lark@adore.lightlink.com
> >(Lacustral)
>
> >>What i have is an *allergy* to candida.
>
> >Who says that (except yourself) ?? A homeopat? Or a
> >naturopat?? Or someone else who want to empty your wallet
>
> Alf, Two separate allergists have told me this. I didn't
> seek out a Candida-oriented allergist, either. i got skin
> tests and got an immediate reaction to Candida, among
> other things.
>
> So far as i can tell, it is a pretty standard part of
> allergy testing. They tell you to avoid dietary yeast and to
> avoid sugar. i am getting allergy shots for Candida among
> other things.
>
> i have questions about the avoiding sugar part. Other
> doctors have said that's bullshit.
>
> So i wonder what a good diet to discourage Candida would be,
> other than a low-carbohydrate diet.
>
> laura

[Moosh:)]

On 9 Mar 2003 11:24:45 -0800, spamfre@lycos.com (Jake
Byrne) wrote:

>lark@adore.lightlink.com (Lacustral) wrote in message
>> Ok, does anybody know if Candida eats fructose? i'm
>> particularly interested in that because i have used
>> fructose for a long time, because of its low glycemic
>> index.
>
>"Over the past decade or so, various studies have suggested
>that the body treats fructose in a markedly different way
>from the simple sugar glucose. What's worrying is that
>fructose is selectively shunted towards the liver, and the
>formation of fats.

Probably glucose is "spared" coz it's needed in the blood
stream constantly.

>For a start, it is metabolized in the liver to provide one of
>the building blocks of triglycerides.

Just like glucose.

>But a fructose-rich diet

Too much fruit? Especially cold climate fruit?

>also directly stimulates the liver to secrete those
>dangerous triglycerides, just as bombarding the liver with
>insulin does.

Why would it do this in the small amounts it exists in the
bloodstream, unless your calorie intake is far in excess.
Glucose will do this in excess also.

>"Fructose could be mimicking what I think frequent
>insulin secretion does," Zammit explains. In the short
>term it could promote insulin resistance in muscle-the
>first step to syndrome X-and in the long term it could
>promote heart disease.

If you have syndrome X genes, and are overweight and
underactive.

>Not everyone agrees that fructose is dangerous. Some say
>there's not enough in our diet to have any noticeable effect.
>But a wealth of animal studies support the idea.

I suggest that there's not enough in our bloodstreams if we
eat eucalorically. Ohh, and get regular moderate exercise :)

>Feed a lab rat fructose, at levels comparable to those in
>human diets, and it develops insulin resistance, even if it
>stays lean.

The studies I saw fed straight fructose. So rats shouldn't eat
fruit? Tell the buggers round here.

>Last year, researchers at the University of Toronto in Canada
>fed a high-fructose diet to Syrian golden hamsters, which
>have a fat metabolism remarkably similar to humans'. In a
>matter of weeks, the hamsters developed syndrome X-including
>high triglyceride levels and insulin resistance.

What were the actual diets fed to these?

>And a powerful study of fructose's effects on humans was
>published last year. Clinical nutritionist John Bantle and
>his colleagues at the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis
>fed a diet containing 17 per cent of the total energy as
>fructose to two dozen healthy volunteers for six weeks. "
>
>http://www.mercola.com/2001/dec/12/syndrome_x.htm
>
>I'd forget about the low glycemic index. It's worse for you
>than glucose.

No, it's not good in excess, but then neither is any food.

BTW, Mercoola is not a good source of info. A bit
sensationalist - like a tabloid newspaper is not a good source
of international news.

A quote from the article you cite:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"How Much Fructose Is In Our Food

The take-home message from the latest nutritional research is
that if you feel like something sweet, reach for a piece of
fruit. Fructose is found in fruit and vegetables, but unlike
processed foods it's present in vanishingly small amounts and
is bound up with complex plant fiber and other nutrients that
offer many health benefits"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I suggest folk ferret out some actual numbers and see
the reality.

Many fruits are about 10 to 15% sugar. Around half this is
fructose, High fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is approximately 50%
fructose -- roughly the same as sucrose (split) and honey.

CocaCola is roughly 10% sugar and if sweetened with HFCS is
about 5% fructose. About the same as many fruit.

Fructose is twice as sweet as glucose, so less goes further.

It's low GI is apparently coz it is passively (slowly)
transported across the gut wall. Glucose is actively
transported. The reasons for this may be the immediate need
for glucose (flight fright) and the longer requirement for
sustained energy supplied by fructose. (Being chased all day
by that damned sabre toothed tiger.)

Moosh:)

[Moosh:)]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:26:05 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:10:04 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:
>
>>>Alf, Two separate allergists have told me this.
>>
>>Are these allergists medically qualified where you are?
>
>Having been offered the possiblity to buy a grade of medical
>doctor from some obscure 'university' in the US, I'm not
>surprised if there are some 'home-made' allergists around
>over there :-)

That appears to be eminently possible.

Moosh:)

[Joel M. Ei]

Better read up on sucrose ...... not glucose!

Moosh:) <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote in message
news:i7uo6vou6irtku0qdrb0valqaqais4r7so@4ax.com...
> On 9 Mar 2003 11:24:45 -0800, spamfre@lycos.com (Jake
> Byrne) wrote:
>
> >lark@adore.lightlink.com (Lacustral) wrote in message
> >> Ok, does anybody know if Candida eats fructose? i'm
> >> particularly interested in that because i have used
> >> fructose for a long time, because of its low glycemic
> >> index.
> >
> >"Over the past decade or so, various studies have suggested
> >that the body treats fructose in a markedly different way
> >from the simple sugar glucose. What's worrying is that
> >fructose is selectively shunted towards the liver, and the
> >formation of fats.
>
> Probably glucose is "spared" coz it's needed in the blood
> stream constantly.
>
> >For a start, it is metabolized in the liver to provide one
> >of the building blocks of triglycerides.
>
> Just like glucose.
>
> >But a fructose-rich diet
>
> Too much fruit? Especially cold climate fruit?