:confused: For many years now, I have been in the habit of getting my daily routine done, dinner, dishes, laundry, kids to bed (they are grown now)... Around 9pm each night I always had and still do, 2 or 3 glasses of dry red wine... I looked forward to this each evening, because it would totally relax me and help me unwind, and give me a little buzz, but most of all it would help me get my overactive worried mind and butt into bed, (made me sleepy)
Over the years I have continued this way of life. I still drink 2 or 3 glasses a night. I want to do the lo- carb diet, but the only reason I fail is because of the cravings for my habit. It is very difficult to give up this thing that I enjoy so much, I am now going through peri-menopause and have gained a lot of weight in the last few years, taking it off now is more difficult than ever!
I wish I could get past the desire and habit of having the wine! Any one have any inspiration? My resolve to just stop is strong all day, but as evening approaches I begin to look forward to the feeling of sitting down with a book and my wine, and relaxing after a long day of work. I really like it! Help!!

Yes, your mind and body start getting into a habit. And the habit becomes an addiction.

I had the same habit, and when I quit, my carb addiction kicked in big time. Here I am today. Recovery is something I explore and grow into on a daily basis. I really liked wine but it was slowly killing me. I really like carbs, but they were killing me too.

I will be bold and suggest that a bit of time for you, and only you in the form of excercise, relaxation techniques and some addiction counseling or self help group such as AA would do wonders. Your peace of mind and health is worth it.

Karen

I can only agree with Karen. And here's why. I have the same problem, although for me it's worse, because my children are grown up and I start my nightly 'ritual' with a couple of drinks while I'm making supper. THEN I move on to the wine.

I've been wrestling with it for years. Alcohol was part of the family culture I grew up in, although it never seemed to be a problem. And so far it hasn't been for me. I work out, walk my dog and work full time. Giving up something that, on the face fo it, doesn't seem to be doing any harm -- in fact seems to be a GOOD thing -- is very difficult. But I feel as if something's wrong, so that's probably a good indicator that something is.

I can recommend a very good book called "The Thinking Person's Guide to Sobriety" by Bert Pluyman (I'm not sure about the spelling of his last name). It's funny and written with a great deal of grace and intelligence. I know you're thinking: "I'm not an alcoholic! What's she on about??" I don't consider myself an alcoholic either, but I sure don't seem to be able to give up my 'habit'.

See if you can find that book. And don't be afraid to consider the possibility that you might be hooked on the stuff. Alcohol crosses all lines.

I'm currently attending an all-ladies AA group. I feel VERY out of place, but they're all kind and funny and not pushy at all. I haven't stopped drinking yet and I'm not sure how or if I will, but I figure I owe it to myself at least to understand what I'm dealing with and to make an intelligent choice.

Oh, and I've lost 12 pounds since January, so while it might slow the loss down, it doesn't seem to have stopped it -- at least for me.

e-mail me if you want to talk.

Take care,

Joanna :)

that alcohol is really insidious. Ii directly affects the brain, so when you find yourself beginning to look forward to your nightly wine, it is, in all probability, the first stage of withdrawal. I don't know how many times I've said to myself in the morning that I would only have one glass of wine with dinner, or I wouldn't have anything at all, and then when suppertime came around found myself with a drink in my hand, all the time telling myself it was all right.

I don't get drunk. I've never missed an hour of work because of a hangover. I've never been stopped by the cops or had (horrors) a 'pick-me-up' in the morning. I, like you, like the way it helps me to drop off to sleep quickly. Getting to sleep has been something of an issue with me since childhood. But ten years ago I was routinely having two drinks a night; now I have four or five (or sometimes six). What does that tell me?

It really bears thinking about.

Bye again,

Joanna

Hello Joanna, I really appreciate your input, and you wrote the things I think! I agree with what you have to say.:agree:
It is very difficult to go without having my usual glass of wine each night. I always tell myself during the day, that this is gonna be the night I just go without...... :rolleyes: Sure! By 9pm I am beginning to argue with myself on why do I feel I can't get thru the night without it. I see you have trouble with sleep, as I do!
Wine definitely helps me with that. I grew up in a home where my stepfather was abusive to my mother...It always happened at night, and I was always the one who felt I had to rescue her and make it stop.... I was actually afraid to fall asleep for fear he would hurt her before I could get there to interrupt. I know it is years later and I have been in counseling because of it.... I also suffered for years from anxiety and panic attacks. They are much better due to counseling ( I don't know if I spelled that right) :roll: My stepfather was an alcoholic, and an abuser.
I am also a very sensitive person, I guess that is why I was so affected by what went on.
I never drank untill I was about 28 years old, I was in a band in NY and we would all have a few drinks to unwind after a long night., I have been drinking the same amount since then, some times a little more sometimes a little less, 2 to 3 glasses of red wine a night. :confused:
I am sure I have a problem because I don't want to give it up.
I am working on it though... For the last few nights, I hold off having my glass of wine untill around 10:30pm, I usually go to bed around 11:30 so it doesnt give me much time to drink more than 1 1/2 glasses... before I get real sleepy. So I'm going to keep at it, hopefully in time I won't need any wine to get sleepy, I'll just go to bed. I hope! :daze:
You sound like me when you write and I enjoy being in touch with someone who probably understands just how I am feeling. ;) I hope to hear from you again, and Iwant youto know I appreciate your kind interest.... Thanks, Susann

You sound like you had a difficult childhood. I was lucky -- I didn't, but I guess we all have our hang-ups left over from earlier times.

I noticed in your note to Karen that you used the phrase "won't feel as if I'm missing something" and I thought that was really interesting, because I've felt that I've been missing something all my life, and last week at the AA meeting the women there talked about it as if that feeling were common to all of them. (Wow! that was a bit of a rambling sentence!!) For me, it's as if there's a piece missing, and I'm constantly aware of needing to find it. The lack of it doesn't cripple me or anything, but I wonder sometimes if I'm ever going to be truly happy without finding it.

Do you feel like this?

If I were you, I'd take it very slowly. What you're dealing with here is pretty complicated, and it needs to be handled carefully. I'd see if there's a women's AA you could try. I'm not a rabid feminist, but women hve different issues than men, and I know that you will get a different level of support from them than you will from a mixed group. The hardest thing for me about going to an AA meeting was admitting the possibility that I really might have a problem -- and I'm still wrestling with that. But it really is just another type of therapy -- a chance to get to know yourself better.

You could try it, and if you really HATE it you could not go back. No harm in that, right?

As for me, I'm making bargains with myself now. :rolleyes: I've decided to cut out my pre-supper drinks and just have wine with my meal. I'm really going to try, because I guess I don't want to give up alcohol yet. But I may have to face the fact that I can't control it anymore, and if that's the case I will stop, because the alternative is too miserable to contemplate. What a waste of time.

I'll stop rambling now. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

Take care,

Joanna

P.S. I'm not a religious person (becoming more spritual though), but I thought you'd like this quote from Isaiah:

"The Lord will guide you continually, and you shall be as a watered garden"

I just wanted to chime in and say that there is no shame in being an addict and that's why 12-Step groups can be such a positive experience. Everyone is in the same boat and there isn't- or shouldn't be - any judgment upon you. What is a shame though is hitting low points all alone.

It is a means of personal growth, and everyone works at their own growth, at their own pace. One of the familiar phrases in 12-Step groups is - take what you need and leave the rest and it works if you work it!

Karen

Susann,
I used to have a very dificult time falling asleep. Many, many nights for a period of about five years I only slept 3, 4, or on a good night maybe 5 hours. I have a wonderful library full of books that I read from that time in my life. I read many classics, hence the name Fifth Musketeer, the book The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas was one of my favorites and I read it several times. But, I am getting off the track.
I have read the discussion so far and I realize that you have other contributing factors to your sleep problems. From a physical standpoint I would like to tell you what worked for me.
Right about when I started Atkins for the first time several things fell into place. Giving up sugar and ALL caffiene as recommended in the Atkins book helped a lot, then I remembered, from one of my sleepless nights, I had read about something called MELATONIN. This is naturally produced in our bodies, but some people don't produce enough. The effects of MELATONIN on our body is to help us fall asleep. It is available as a supplement in vitamin stores and I have even seen it in the local drug store.
I believe for me the effects of these three factors, cutting out sugar, giving up ALL caffeine and the supplement MELATONIN allowed me to develope a regular sleep pattern of 7 hours a night.
MELATONIN does not work like a sleeping pill, it does not knock you out, it does not put you to sleep. It helps bring on a slight drowsy feeling but nothing overpowering, just enough so that I feel if I get into bed I will fall asleep instead of tossing and turning. MELATONIN is not addictive. I use it only occasionally now, once every couple weeks. Maybe this is something that could work for you, or at least something you may want to keep in mind for a later time.
In any event I wish you the best of luck!! :thup:

Thank all of you for sharing about this issue. I am completely surprized that so many of you have done the same thing I did. I quit smoking several years ago, was low carbing too. I really REALLY missed the way it calmed me down. I started having 2 really TALL mixed drinks, rum and diet coke, in the evening after chores done and baby to bed. I'd get on the computer and unwind. I looked SO forward to that that I often just skipped dinner. I started realizing it was a problem when 1. my doctor prescribed an anti-biotic that you couldnt drink with and I paniced (but didn't drink), 2. when I told myself "oh I'll just get a bubble bath tonight instead of drinking and I drank anyway.
My father was alcoholic and got sober in AA when I was 12. I know the signs and symptoms and I think I was heading in that direction. So I woke up the morning after the bubble bath didnt happen and told my husband I was drinking to much and wanted him to know I was throwing out the bottle. This was I was accountable. So far it's worked pretty well. I've not done as well on my diet though. If we're out somewhere I'll occasionally drink and this has worked ok. We'll see how it goes... Thanks again for having the courage to bring up this topic.. Lisa

Hi, Please pardon me for jumping in. I just finished reading this post and it hit so close to home that I couldn't stay quiet.

One of the biggest obstacles I had when starting Atkins was giving up the alcohol. I did cut waaaaaaaay back on beer (too high in carbs and don't care much for Miller Lite) but just consumed more wine. I even went out and bought a bottle of rum (which I use to drink once in a great while) and started drinking rum and cokes more often, guilt free? I guess I don't like how hard alcohol makes me feel, not the same as red wine! So, I've cut back to the "once in a great while" for that.

So, the hard stuff is basically out-don't like how it makes me feel.
Gave up the beer-too many carbs-can down a Miller lite once in awhile. But,....The Red Wine...............

I found for myself that I simply cannot have red wine in the house (DH doesn't like it anyway). If it is here, I drink it. I would buy one of the large bottles of Merlot from COSTCO and drink half the bottle in one evening, and finish it the next night. I am a Christian, so I struggle with issues of obedience here as well (not necessarily abstaining, but not getting drunk). I've often wondered if I am an alcoholic, because I don't like the idea of never enjoying another ice cold beer on a hot summer day, or a warm glass of red on a cold winter's night. The only real problem alcohol has caused in my life is being overweight and out of shape. I often relate my desire to not stop drinking, to the same desire to not stop overeating. For me, it seems to be a similar mindset. Since starting LC, I have felt so much better mentally! My desire to overeat is gone! My desire to consume alcohol has not dissappeared, but it has diminished some. I am hoping that as I continue this WOE, that my desire for alcohol consumption will settle into a "normalacy". When my DR. asks about how much alcohol do I drink, I would like to respond, "occaisionally" :)
Besides, I want to lose weight, and I have found myself at a stall for some time. Even figuring in the calories/carbs, I was staying under 20-30 and 2200 cal. no harm, right? Well, I guess not, because the weight would not go!

Though I haven't suffered insomnia since college, (stress) one thing I definately have noticed, when I DON"T drink, I sleep better! I sleep harder, and wake up more refreshed!

A few motivators that have worked for me:
-Practicing what I preach, especially for the sake of my children (I believe a big factor in my own drinking was/is my parents habits of overindulgence)
-Break this _____ stall!
-A commitment to rise early for intense physical training, which, BTW, helps in the ability to fall asleep naturally.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. It is always so good to know you're not the only one struggling.

I think what you said is really interesting. Since I've been lo-carbing I've noticed a real similarity in the way I approach alcohol and the way I used to approach carbs. I would eat too much at a time; I would eat until I was almost disgusted with myself. I'm not a binge drinker, but I will admit that sometimes I find I've drunk far more than I want to without thinking about it too much. My carb 'addiction' leaned toward things like potato chips and cheezies, and I could make a good dent in a large bag of Ruffles!

So I'm trying to approach the alcohol thing now in those terms. I know it alters your brain chemistry -- that's why that first drink is soooo good, but I wonder whether that can be controlled. If I make a concentrated effort, with the knowledge of how I relate and react to certain foods, can I control my alcohol intake in the same way that I've learned to control my carb intake?

Sure would like to.

All the best,

Joanna

I'll add a bit of my own history in here because I think it's relevant...

I used to be a heavy drinker. It was nothing to finish a bottle of red wine in an evening. I never wondered if I was an alcoholic because I only drank at night and had no problems - ha! - with my day to day life because of it.

Well, one day, I miraculously lost my taste for drinking. It just didn't fill the need anymore and it I was also starting to fear for my health. What I didn't notice was that lots of sugar was creeping back into my way of eating along with all the other carbs I was eating. I thought for sure weight loss with follow with the lack of drinking. With what I know now, it's a complete joke!

My drinking career was short. It only lasted for about 10 years. My sugar career has been with me for most of my life.

When I started LC, I thought I had found the miracle cure, and in a way I had. LC taught me that I was indeed an addict and I never would have found out otherwise. Maybe I would have found out, as I eventually kept growing desperately larger and larger with no end in sight.

LC is a perfect way of eating for me. It's given me great energy, stability, calmness, fat loss and very good health. And, it was extremely hard at first. Now, it's second nature to eat this way.

I focus more on recovery than fat loss now. I know what my triggers are and the whys, wheres and hows, but it didn't make a whit of difference until I started working on the spiritual aspect of recovery. I didn't want to white knuckle it. What I wanted was to be at peace.

Karen

Karen, thanks for sharing,

I agree wholeheartedly about the "white knuckle ride". I don't want to feel "deprived". Quite frankly, I don't tolerate that "feeling" too well at all. So I have to approach the situation from a different perspective.

- I DO like to feel good when I wake up, mentally and phsically. (drinking too much would leave more of a guilt trip than a hangover).

-I DO like having energy and motivation to exercise regularly.

-I DO like knowing I am being obedient to my creator. (again, not abstinence, just not abuse)

-I Do like making a positve influence on my children and the decisions they will have to make for themselves.

-I DO like losing weight. ;) (That's what started all this :) )

I am sure there are a few more "I DO's" (I think I will post them in my journal as I think of them. ) This brings me to the thought that for the first time in longer than I can remember, I feel like I am breaking out of the visious (sp?) cycle of: - feeling bad-do something to feel better-overeat/overconsume (alcohol) (One of the great lies I allowed into my life :mad: )-feel better for awhile-feel bad again. The beginning of the "break" was getting off the sugar! Why don't Dr.s suggest that when treating mild depression? It has made a world of difference for me!

that despite my last post I really do think that when it comes to alcohol, we're dealing with a very difficult addiction. It probably IS connected with carb sensitivity, and as Kathleen Desmaisons says in 'Potatoes not Prozac', most alchoholics are sugar sensitive. (Probably why you started eating more sugar, Karen when you gave up your wine.)

But, once I got started low carbing, I really didn't crave carbs, but if I try to stop drinking (I know, I stopped for three months last year), I REALLY miss the drinks. I don't shake or anything, but I do have to make a conscious effort every time to not have one.

It reminds me more of smoking than anything else. But it's even more difficult in some ways because it's so much more socially acceptable.

Interesting you should talk about the spiritual side of things Karen. I think that's where my help will come from.

It's probably more about finding out who you are and where you fit in the universe than anything else.

Take care all,

Joanna

When I first decided to write about my problem I wasn't sure I really wanted to post it, I was a little embarassed. I am now so glad I did. :daze: Lately I have been taking myself apart mentally because I can't seem to just cast aside the one thing that makes me fat.....drinking wine.... I am really not a big eater, and definitely have never had an urge for sweets. But I am the carb addict who loves pasta, rice, bread, potatoes. We were raised on these types of foods, they were inexpensive. There were 5 kids in my family when I was growing up. And my parents didn't have a lot of money. So I know how I got started with my carb problem.
When I was pregnant with my first two children I was a gestational diabetic....so with my third pregnancy my doctor got smart and put me on my first lo carb... high protein diet. What a difference for me and the baby!
Now I am pre menopause, and losing weight is the battle of all battles.... Trying to not drink any wine has become another battle. Good Grief seems like a person can't have any fun! :cry:
It's not like the wine brings me down, or makes me misbehave, or makes me mean or a bad person..... darn it....it just makes me feel relaxed and a little mellow. So what is wrong with that? :confused:
I know ...I know... I'm just letting you all in on the arguments that go on in my head about my problem. :rolleyes:
But I will continue on with my battle, and be thankful that I found this site, :yay: because at least I am now able to be in touch and openly discuss this issue with people who know about it because they are there, or have been there. :)
I am truly Thankful and Grateful for you all :rheart: Osuzana

Why don't you do the full-on Atkins induction and see how you feel after 2 weeks? Tackle one thing at a time. When you're more clear headed from carb detox, then you can think about what you want to do next. You sound like your on the brink of change. Don't let your past hold you back.

It's not only the wine that makes you fat. Red wine has approximately .5 grams per ounce and white has .25 which is not that bad. It's your daily eating and drinking choices that matter. Bad carbs cause your insulin to store fat. It doesn't matter if they come from bread or chocolate.

Karen

Hello Karen
You are very inspiring to me. I have been trying to do Atkins, but as I said I always cheat and have the wine after the day is done.
Not only that, as I sit here and type this, it is 8am and I am answering e-mails and of course reading threads here on "locarber", plus I'm on my second cup of coffee . So I guess I'm not really doing Atkins now am I? :confused:
You are so right when you suggest I am on the brink of change. :agree:
About 8 years ago I also miraculously (sp) lost my need to drink wine. It was amazing, I was doing a low carb plan then too. I was about 3 weeks into it, and walking every day and using that time for meditation and prayer. I live in the Adirondacks, and quiet back roads are beautiful and inspiring places for spiritual mental journeys. One day as I was walking and praying, and asking God to help me with my problem (as I had been doing for weeks) , I felt answered and lifted, and definitely knew I would not have a problem with giving up drinking from that point on. It was just that way. Like a little miracle, I almost couldn't believe it! I lost 25 pounds and didn't drink for 6 months. :sunny: I did develop a really bad sciatic nerve problem in my hip and leg, and had to eventually forgo my long walks. I also slowly let go of my spiritual time with God. :rolleyes: I was thin and Thankful, and slowly started drinking again, around the Holidays. I was sure I would be able to manage myself and not get into the position I was in before I began my quest.
Well I was foolish! :confused: .....Here I am years later trying the same plan, only it just doesn't seem to be working. I know God is listening, But maybre he is too busy for me right now :p The world needs him in a big way right now! Besides I think he is making it harder this time around because he wants me to remember it , so I don't mess up again. :eek:
I know I could not have done it without spiritual help the first time, and I know the same thing now. Your note to me, just reminded me of what I really need to get through this. (Thank You) ....It has re-enforced me and given me more strength and determination to keep on walking and praying, I know it will work, and I know when it does I will not go back to my old ways ever again. I have learned it is just too difficult to start all over!
I am curious about how your miricle happened! Were you trying to do the diet and still drinking? And what exactly ( If I may ask) made you stop?
You mentioned that wine does not have a lot of carbs, I realize that, but for some reason it completely stops my weight loss, even when I carefully figure in the carbs. As I said I am really NOT a big eater, even though I look like I am.
Sorry this is so long, but I needed to get it out. :)
:rheart: Susann

Maybe there ISN'T anything wrong witht he wine that you drink, but if, like me, you sometimes feel uncomfortable with it, something's not right.

At the same time, don't beat yourself up about it. Perhaps instead of full strength wine you could try a wine spritzer or two before bed -- see how that works.

Above all, don't look at it as a failing, but as a chance to know yourself better.

Ttake care,

Joanna :there:

I am curious about how your miricle happened!

It happened way before I started LC and I really don't know how it happened. I would like to think that it was my body - concerned with my survival - signaling my brain to stop. When I stopped drinking, I replaced it with sugar addiction. Then years later, I came upon LC and realized that I replaced one with the other.

I believe that your Higher Power is always there and ready to listen and advise. Sometimes we're just not ready or willing to listen which is fine. I also believe that your Higher Power will not put anything on your plate that you're not ready to swallow.

A book that you may find inspiring to read and easy to follow is Potatoes Not Prozac. With her plan, you gradually replace all the white things you eat. It's designed to heal your metabolism and her story is quite inspiring. If this idea sounds comfortable to you, I would focus on healing, rather than weight loss.

A lot of low carbers drink coffee! I wouldn't worry about it!

Karen

I think in the next few days If I can get the time, I will start the journal here, first I have to figure out how to do it......
It will probably make an interesting read about a month from now. :p Maybe my adventure will help someone else....That would be nice :daizy:
Who wrote the book "Potatoes not Prozac'? I will get it.
Joanna, thanks for your ideas, I welcome them, they are pretty good. I have done the spritzer thing and it's not a bad idea, I'll let you know how it goes in the next few days.... Usually if I can go 2 or three nights without, then I'm on a roll. :roll: I'm just gonna keep on keepin on

(as my mother used to call me) OH.....Suzanna

Who wrote the book "Potatoes not Prozac'?

Kathleen Desmaisons

Karen

This was one of the best posts I've read in awhile. It's so nice to have such support from everyone. Osuzana, hang in there and don't beat yourself up. I, too, loved my vodka and red wine but after LCing since Feb I find it made me feel so bad in the morning it wasn't worth it. Not that it is easy to give up but I do think twice about indulging. One thing I did was substitute a glass of mineral water, in a pretty wine glass garnished with a piece of lemon. One of my favorite times was when my husband came home from the office and we would have our drinks (he, beer and me, wine) and talk about our day.(I would save my martini's for the weekends). What I found was that the one glass I would have with him would turn into 2 and then more with dinner. I would not sleep well and feel very groggy in the morning. When I started to substitute the wine with the mineral water I found that it was more of a habit than anything and didn't miss the wine. And because I slept well and felt so much better in the morning that was a good reminder in the evening! There are still times where I will get lazy and have more than one glass but I'm always reminded in the a.m. Habits are hard to break but you can do it! Good luck and let us know how you are doing! :roll:

Osuzana

I am on the Montignac low carb diet and have for years enjoyed red wine. On this diet we are allowed red wine after a meal. So I still have my 2 glasess after 9 PM and throughly enjoy them. Red wine has health benefits and I can only hope it is counter acting all that fat that I am now eating and will keep the blood flowing freely through me

Thank you all so much for your encouragement :daizy: I have to say it is so good to still be hearing from people on this subject. There seems to be a lot of interest in this subject, and I am glad. :D It helps me to know that I am not all by myself in this struggle. I know I will be able to get a handle on this eventually, mainly because I am really looking for a change.
I bought the book "Potatoes not Prozac," and found it to be very interesting.... It certainly had a lot written in there about me :rolleyes: I think I will follow this program and see where it leads me... One good thing is, I happen to love Potatoes :yum:
Karen suggested I get the book. Thank you Karen, good advice.
I am very curious if anyone else here on this site has followed the program.... I would love to here from you, on how you managed, and how the program worked for you, maybe I should post a new thread with that Topic...... :rheart: Osuzana

I hope we can continue with this thread, because it's something I'm dealing with too. I used to lose quite well without worrying about alcohol but now within 10 lbs or so of my goal I feel that the wine is the only thing standing in the way. Right now I don't feel I have a problem because I've just come back from a week's vacation and have been drinking much less than usual (couldn't afford to, in restaurants!) but other times I have felt it may be causing health problems and exacerbating a middle-age depression. So I hope we can all help each other out here. Without losing our low-carb focus, of course!

By the way, I'm unclear on the Potatoes and Prozac--are you supposed to eat potatoes (not a chance) or avoid them (you're supposed to avoid white food, right?)

Janis :daze:

:wave:
What I gathered from the book and the web site was that people who are sugar addicts benefit greatly from this program. :thup: It is more of a healing for sugar and alcohol users, who continue to crave one or the other. Many people today suffer from depression and they are on 'Prozac" The program offers a way to naturally pull your self away from these addictions, so you can get on with losing weight without such a struggle. :confused:
The potato is eaten every night before bed to balance seratonin levels in the brain, which are out of wack in all people who are ssugar addicts. Wine is the most simple form of sugar there is, so the body burns it before anything else. That is why I, and others who consume it don't lose weight normally.
I am thinking of doing this program, but I will not be able to do the lo carb because of the potatoes and other aspects of the plan.... which kinda bothers me because I love the way I feel on a low carb diet. I'm still reading the book and giving it deep thought! :roll:

The chapter on losing weight is in the middle of the book. What she says essentially is that you have to start with the healing process in mind, not weight loss. You shift towards green things rather than brown things, which along with protein at every meal puts you on a LC plan.

Karen

:rolleyes: Oh!

Yep red wine.............why did they ever invent the stuff??? that's what i think some days..
I totally relate to u, susanna, and i too spend countless days thinking "Right, from today i'm not going to drink any wine today, or on a weekday" and before wednesday is here i'm looking to see if we've got any red wine in the pantry.

My friend recently had a heart attack and he's only 43! He has always mocked me and my WOL and WOE but i justed told him it worked for me and we never really talked too much about it. Well, in the hospital last week we all sat talking to the Sister and she was talking about his lifestyle and he said "i only drink red wine and diet cokes" ( which is true! not together u understand!)
And she said that red wine was perfectly safe. In fact TWO GLASSES a day is Reccommended!!!!!
And do u know what i did.......I interpreted that into "it's ok to drink two glasses of wine a day...even when i couldn't stop drinking if i WANTED TO!" I made it say that i DON'T have a problem....do u understand what i'm saying. She was talking about in terms of post coronary health, not general everyday life, not in alcoholics everyday life!

It's only after thinking about it that i realise what i've been trying to do. KID MYSELF! I have a fantastic partner,a lovely house, a lovely dog and a wicked job and i'm doing a brilliant eating and exercising plan to give myself the optimum body shape and size and to be strong and healthy, i don't smoke and i don't do DRUGS and i don't even drink caffeine..........................
But i still have to fill a gap ( where it is i don't know) with the alcohol.

I hope you don't mind me venting like this but it's the first time i've talked to anyone other than tom about this.

I'm actually very happy to be typing this, even though it upsets me to know it's ME and it's true.

I have friends who are pretty similar to me, but their partners are the same too so i suppose their behaviour doesn't seem so odd.

Well i hope you all keep this thread going as this has done me the world of good.... thank you all for being so honest.

I mentioned that i think of wine as filling a gap. When i was in my 20's i used to buy a can or two of cider on my way home from work and drink it on the way home, before my mom could see!That was because i hated my job.
Then as i got older i used to drink in the pub with my friends and luckily they seemed to get drunk much quicker than me so it sort of stopped me in my tracks.

Then over the last two years i've been drinking red wine when i want to "chill" or if i'm "stressed" and i'm now listening to some excellent music and it's making me realise that there are other ways to "chill" and "relax". I even try and fool myself by giving it up for a week and then i am convinced if i wanted to i could drop it altogether........ What a fool!

I think it used to be the way i felt after a drink, but after drinking a couple of bottles most weeks for about 2 years i don't think i get that anymore. I used to like how i didn't feel sad or fed up or bored anymore!!!!! I mean who drinks just when they're bored. I am pitiful..... i know that already.

I'm going to go and have a few minutes now because i have some serious thinking to do.

Thanx to you all
Have a fantastic day and i hope to speak to you all soon
Phoebe

You are not pityful!!!! In fact, to face yourself so honestly takes a HUGE amount of courage. I know, because I still can't face up to the fact that I hve a drinking "problem", and I attend AA meetings!!! How pathetic is that???

One thing I've learned there (in the three meetings I've been to) is that all alcoholics are trying to fill that 'hole'. Being an alcoholic is about not knowing who you are. It's NOT abut being weak and bad and hopeless.

Oh hell, I'm at work and can't do this. I don't have time. But Stay in touch. I'll try to write mor tomorrow!!

All the best,

Joanna

I am so thankful for this forum. I love wine....I have not drank very much since Lc-ing....I miss it though and I think about it. Thanks for letting me listen in, so to speak, and to learn. I appreciate all of you and the way you share so openly.
Linda

I've walked with the dog this morning and had a good think about all the bits of my life that i am totally in charge of.

the only think i do fall back on is alcohol.

Now is the time to put all my piece back into the equation and realise that alcohol isn't included.

I think it will be hard to say i'll never drink again because when i haven't had a drink for a week (usually my limit) then the first drink i have is so fantastic, that i think what stops me from completely quitting is the thought of not having that feeling again.

I know alot of it is psychological as with smokers and haing something to do with their hands, etc, but it has to be a step towards being in control of it and i need to tell myself that i don't need a glass of wine to relax or "chill" and infact i already know"my" alternatives - a huge pot of decaf tea while i watch a soppy film with a creamy cheesecake (PP of course) or a couple of crispbreads and egg mayo. Or even a beautiful tall glass filled with ice and diet orange- with some yoghurt(orange and wholewheat). See i already have the alternatives but i can't seem to put them into practise.

But yesterday was a bit of a breakthrough for me- just writing all the stuff i did brought it right to the forefront of my consciousness and MADE me make a decision.

So let's see if the gap - though what it is i don't know - is filled with all the other fab things that i do and try to find other ways to chill out rather than blotting out any bad bits with a couple of drinks.

Thanx again everyone

Phoebe X X

Osuzana,

I so agree with everything that's been posted thus far...alcohol is baffling and cunning...serenity will come tho' if you keep seeking it.

I just wanted to add that about a year ago, after a rough couple of months with teenagers, I made an app't with a doctor - told the receptionist I needed to see him due to EXTREME STRESS!

After being quite thorough and honest with him as he took my history, including the fact that I hadn't slept more than 3-4 hours for many years, he precsribed an anti-depressant for me called "Remeron."

The main 'side-effect' is sleepiness so you take it 30 minutes before bedtime...and it works beautifully!

I can't begin to tell you what a treat it is to sleep again! I just feel it has been such a healthy change in my life.

AND, the teens are not so 'out of control' anymore - mama has learned to set boundaries, and that's been good for all of us!

The depression has lifted as well - I look at life totally differently these days...on a follow-up visit, the doctor said I have chronic depression and could stay on this indefinitely.

I do believe I have suffered from it for a lifetime, and had I been properly diagnosed and treated years ago, many things in our lives would have been different.

NOW, this may scare anyone on this forum about Remeron - the other side effect (in 17% of the users who take it), is increased appetite.

Yep - before LC, I gained 20 pounds in a year, BUT since April 3rd when I started Atkins/CALP, I have been doing just fine...14 pounds lost!

So I am convinced that the carb cravings certainly put much more weight on me than the Remeron.

Phoebe-Tom :wave:
Wow what a great letter: One thing for sure this post has allowed us to speak the truth about ourselves, and that alone enlightens us to our selves and others who dare to admit we have a problem, or maybe we don't have a problem, but as one of the replies here stated "If we think we do, then we probably do"
I know for sure that my problem with wine is, that I really like the sedating feeling it gives me after a long hard day of life. Like yesterday, when my husband and I had to put our beautiful 12 year old mixed Cocker Spaniel "Fergie" to sleep forever. My heart broke, and we had such a difficult time and difficult day. By 9pm I just wanted to crawl onto my living room couch with a glass of wine and close my burning swollen tear filled eyes :cry: and drift off. I did just that, and finally slept for the first time in days.
I know that I need to not depend on the wine for this, but I also know that I just really like how it makes me feel. Especially on occasions such as this. :confused:

My extreme condolences to you and your husband.

Julie

:wave: Prsloan;
I don't think I have ever heard of Remeron, Is it something new?
I had been diagnoased as being depressed about 2 years ago. :(
Although I never thought of my self that way, I always try to be up-beat and happy on the outside, so I was surprised when the Doctor perscribed "Celexa" It had side affects, such as weight gain, and decresed sexual drive.... Good Grief!!! :eek: I'm going through pre- menopause... I don't have a hell of a lot of sex drive as it is... and to me that's a perscription for divorce! And I love my DH. Sooooo I didn't take it! I chose to stay with my wine instead. But I am interested in the Remeron, I thank you for posting your information on it. ;)

Gator Gal 93

:rheart: Thank You!

Yes, I sincerely mean it. I live alone and my pet is my best roommate. I understand the loss very well.

I have been lurking on this post for some time. Maybe one day I will post.

Julie

So sorry to hear about Fergie! Saying goodbye to your pet is absolutely heart-wrenching.

The only thing you can say to yourself is that she's comfortable now. I remember when my first Wheaton Terrier died suddenly at seven years of age (heart attack), how devastated I felt. All I could do was imagine her at her happiest and best, and then believe that she was somewhere, feeling just like that.

This thread is really interesting, and thank you Susann for bringing it up. One thing I'm learning at AA is that alcoholism is FAR more prevalent than we think. It's like a whole subculture of people who, while a LONG way from the gutter, or hiding bottles in their laundry baskets, nonetheless have become dependent on the stuff. I'm one of them, but I'm hoping that I can learn to control my intake rather than give it up forever.

I'm impressed with the program. It's utterly non-judgemental and focusses on really living your life, rather than just cruising through it. But as I said to one of the ladies at the meeting yesterday: "I'd really like to follow the program and drink too!". She just laughed. :rolleyes:

There's a lot of humour there. And a whole lot of support for those who want it. I'd recommend it to anyone.

Onec again, my sympathies.

Joanna

Osuzana,

I hadn't ever heard of Remeron before either - this was a younger doctor who is really 'up' on the latest...

All I can say is it's worked wonders for me.

As far as sex drive, doesn't seem to have affected that!

Prsloan

Hi Suzana, We have a little Yorkie and he is the delight of our daily lives. We have a grandchild and another on the way and this in no way takes away from them. I am so sorry for your loss. It is heart breaking and traumatic to lose a friend. Friends are hard to cultivate and keep. Human friends do not give the undonditional love that dogs do.
Just wanted you to know that there are many of us who understand. Thanks again for sharing about 'wine'. Has helped me begin thinking and moving toward change.
Linda

Hi friends, I haven't posted since this thread was first started, but I have definately been staying current with it. I am glad to see people come forward to themselves and to others with their alcohol struggles, whatever the degree of addiction.

I agree with JOANNA, I don't want to give it up forever. I do want to be in control of my consumption and not the other way around. Since starting LCing, this has been easier. I look at red wine as a "trigger food" and have stayed away from it for over a couple of weeks now. I have had A beer, and last Sat. afternoon/evening, DH and I enjoyed two mixed drinks together. In the past, once I started inbibing, I wouldn't stop until very intoxicated, or bedtime. Last week, I simply didn't want anymore, (vodka/raspberry dietrite). I know if it had been red wine, it would've been another story. Still have some growing to do there!!

I also wanted to share about an "all-natural" supplement I started taking in 2/02. "BeCalmed" . I too suffer from depression (my job doesn't allow me to take ANY meds for depression) and I have found this supplement (along w/LCing) to make me feel as good as I did last year when on CELEXA and ZOLOFT without any of the bummer side effects. (I had to take a leave of absence from work-acutally rather enjoyed that part of it-unfortunately, just stayed home and ate and ate and ate.)

I would encourage whoever is interested to check out the info available on the internet and of course if on perscription meds, be sure and talk to your Dr. first. I'm sorry I don't have the link, nor did I have the forsight to look up the address before starting this post. Just type "Becalmed" into your search engine and you should find what your looking for.

Suzana, I am so very sorry for the loss of your little loved one. I remember, when I was a teenager, crying for days when the miniture poodle I had grown up with contracted parvo and died in a very short period. I remember hearing my mom cry and that was the hardest :tears: We now have a golden retriever named Chance (there was NO chance I was going to have a dog-my son and husband eventually won me over :) ) Despite his digging, chewing, shedding, I love that dog!! and I know when his time comes, it is going to be heartache/break all over again. My sympathies for you, Suzana. I hope time will ease your heart and allow many happy memories to bring a smile to your day :) .

http://www.becalmd.com/index4.htm

HTH,
Julie

P.S. But, beware of the evil pop up windows! :bash:

You are SO Cool!! :cool:

Thank-you, Julie :wave:

If you really want to kick the habit, get some 5htp and take it before dinner. It will relax you, kill the craving for alcohol, and you will sleep better, and feel better in the morning. :thup:

:wave:
O K....O K..... What the heck is 5htp and where do we get it? :confused: :daze: :D

5 HTP is short for 5-hydroxytryptophan, a supplement that enhances seratonin activity in the brain. It's currently being used in some applications as an alternative to Prozac.

There is an explanation of it here: 5 HTP (http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html)

Karen

Here's another link:
http://www.smart-publications.com/books/5htp/toc.html

I took 500mg/day of 5htp for 2 years for depression. I slept better, had no cravings for alcohol, the only other side effects I had, was that I was tired in the begining until my body adjusted to the dosage. Nature's way 5htp with B6 &C is guaranted pure and free from all impurities including peak X, (I'm assuming you read the article listed above). It is also enteric coated so that the pills do not get broken down until they reach your small intestine, therefore no stomach upset.

By the way I no longer suffer from depression. :roll:

:wave: Thank You for the info.... I think I'll wait for long term testing.... and maybe opt for the "potato" instead. Too many scarey stories there for me, I am a medical chicken, when it comes to taking things that have not been tested long term. :daze: The information was appreciated, and it 's explination was very thorough :rheart: Osuzana

:tears: I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. We have just passed our 1st anniversary of Lizzie's death (she was 14). And she lived with my mom and me until i left home when she was 10 and she had liver failure. I couldn't even get the blasted day off work to go with my mom and sister to the vets.

I know how you are feeling. I do have another dog now she's three and she is our "baby" i don't care what anyone says.

I'm sooooo grateful for this thread it's done me the world of good.

I've tried to think about how i'm going to solve my "problem".

I've thought about this many times , usually in the morning and said "never again!" and not only if i'd been absolutely drunk, just when i wake up feeling rough and then realise i had 3/4's of a bottle of wine the night before.
So i decide i'm never drinking again EVER. :nono:

Then 3 or 4 days of being really proud of myself i say ok then i'll change the goals to Just a glass at weekends! That one is the best i've done yet (1 week!).
But then i go out for a meal with friends and i think well it's a special occasion, so i have one or two glasses and have no pudding so food wise i don't feel guilty and on the way home i get a bottle from the off licence!!! (thinking : it's ok coz i didn't have a pudding so i've restricted myself there!!!! :bash:

What a FOOL!
Soon it's ok to open a bottle with our evening meal and finish it off.Tom also asks me not to drink too much because he knows i open a bottle and pretty much will try and finish it. It doesn't help that it seems the "norm" on TV or at work or friends house's to have a glass of wine or a beer whilst watching tv or sitting in the garden.....but it's having just one that is my real problem

Saying all this - i haven't had a drink for 2 days and i'm trying really hard with my Body for Life program / low carbing so why shouldn't my initial goal be 12 weeks (or 9 weeks as i'm on weeks three already)! ! Till the end of my first challenge.
:confused: NO CHANCE!
That's what i think, but i'm trying to think of something that will give me a light at the end of the tunnel (if u know what i mean!)

But something which isn't TOO easy....if it's just drink every other day then i'll have twice as much every other day so i'll not benefit from that but if it's something i have to make a conscious effort at , then maybe i can really stick it out.

I don't know what i'll do yet, but for now i'm just avoiding it and thinking of my carbs and exercise more.

Right that's my nonsense for today all the best to everyone.
Speak to you all soon.
Phoebe x x

You're seven hours ahead of me, so I'm wondering how you're doing this evening!

Phoebe, I'd say your problem is very similar to mine, but take heart, low-carbing may actually be the solution for that too.

I've been doing some version of carb control for nearly four years now, with varying amounts of dilegence and success. At the same time, I've noticed that progressively, I haven't been able to drink the same amont I used to without getting unpleasantly drunk (although until recently I've kept on trying :) ).

Then someone on this thread (yes, this one!!) turned a light bulb on in my head :idea: when she said that since she started LCing, she can take or leave alcohol, because the effects are so much more pronounced. And it hit me -- wihout all the carbs in your stomach to absorb the booze, it just gets funnelled straight through. NO WONDER I feel so awful when I try to drink as I used to!!!

Anyhow, for the last week or so, I've paid careful attention to how I feel after each glass of wine (or drink), and I've discovered that the perfect amount over the evening seems to be two. Any more and I start feeling unpleasant.

So I'm going to continue to go to my ladies AA meetings (Just in case! ;) ), and at the same time I'm going to take a lot more care with my drinks.

I'm also going to start doing something with my evenings so I'm not stuck in the same routine that allows me to do nothing but read or watch TV until bedtime.

It's all very interesting, but the correlation between lower carb and less tolerence is striking. Why didn't I see it before?

All the best,

Joanna

Well, I just got on the net this morning and ordered a bottle of 5-htp. I'll keep you all posted on what happens. One of its effects is to lessen carb cravings, which I would say I almost never experience--except that alcohol is a form of sugar, isn't it, so it might be helpful that way.

Staff get-together after work today. I know I can do it low-carb but not low-wine. My willpower is just not with me these days, that's why I'm hoping a pill will work, even if it's just psychological.

Janis :thup:

:wave: I am curious as to the size glass everyone drinks from, The recommended size is usually one--- 4 1/2 oz. glass :( I personally dont know anyone who only drinks this amount of wine. I use a 7 oz. glass, and usually have 2 and if I'm amongst friends :rolleyes: I usually manage to down 3 glasses. This is really too much I am sure, but when I am with friends this always happens. :confused:
I am aware that the French people drink wine several times during the day, :yum: and are for the most part, pretty healthy, so I have heard! I wonder what their consumption average per person per day is???

I've never seen it, but apparently the French used to have a poster advertising the benefits of drinking red wine, and the caption was: "No more than a litre a day!" :eek:

Personally, an average glass of wine for me is somewhere between 4 and 6 oz -- I know, I measured it once. Difficulties arise if my husband tops it up before I'm finished. Then I lose track.

An article in this month's edition of Science is extolling the virtues of red wine in preventing colds. In the study carried out, those who drank two glasses a day had 30% fewer colds than those that didn't drink, and those who drank more than two had 44% fewer colds!

They don't make it easy to give it up, do they? :D

To your health!

Joanna

That study on red wine and colds was in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

(Science had a study on how having boys rather than girsl can shorten your life!)

:)

I'm fine...though i have broken my "fast" of nil alcohol!

BUT i did it after thought and i was going to a balti restaurant and i didn't want wine because last time i had almost a bottle to myself ........ and i am making conscious decisions with my amounts as i hope i can then be more in control of what i drink or don't drink. So..... i decided i would have 2 cans of cider (i've been known to buy 4 and drink 3 in a sitting!) and NO MORE.

Well it's weird you mentioning it about how such little amounts affect you, because i felt abit tipsy after just 1/2 pint which is not normal! And i actually left a whole glass because i just felt like i'd had loads and loads and i was well pleased to be able to leave some and not be bothered.

So even though i didn't say to myself NO i did think about it before hand and decided to have some but limit it. I am actually proud of doing that just as much as not drinking but i have to stay focused to say no to it tonight as i want to not drink now for another couple of days.

Wish me luck folks

Phoebe :wave:

I'm rooting for ya Phoebe!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer::cheer: :cheer:


BTW, job well done for making a plan and sticking to it!! Having control over your intake, and NOT the other way around is a very BIG deal! Congrats!

This is a great thread and I relate so much!!
I've been doing Adkins for some time but not with too much thought...I just limit my carbs and of course stay away from bread/pasta/rice. I don't keep count as I really never had much too lose and just wanted to do something about my fat "gut".
So far the scale says I haven't lost at all but all my size 7 shorts are too big and I now fit into my 5's again!! :)
I still have some gut and flab but overall I'm happy and not as embarassed to been seen in my swimsuit.
Sooooo all that is good but I too drink my wine (white) and have really noticed how it goes to my head alot faster. This really bothers me and I've found myself thinking about it alot. I don't want to give up the wine yet I find myself "drunk" almost every single night. :(
Last night I seemed fine until right when my husband came home from work (11 pm). I got up for just one more glass and came back to the couch to talk to hubby. Then just like that I felt totally out of it. And of course I then tried to "control" myself so he wouldn't notice and got myself to bed.
I just don't like that feeling!! Doing LC just doesn't seem to mix with drinking, yet I want to do both. :(
Anyway, just sharing and thanks for sharing too!!

In a way this thread IS like a AA meeting where we still drink! :)

What a thread! This is great!

Here's my story...I don't drink, or should I say; I probably have 4 weak 7&7's a year divided into 2 days. Until today, I was considering starting to drink on a nightly basis. Yeah, go figure!

I keep hearing about the benefits of wine. So I went out and bought a bottle a couple of weeks ago, even though "I don't like wine...at all !" Every night I see it and I tell myself I'll start drinking "tomorrow" because "it's good for me". Kind of like medicine, I guess. You guys have helped me kick a habit I hadn't even started!

Amazing........

I come from an alcoholic family. The ones who didn't drink too much were either overweight or diabetic or both. Overweight is my problem. I have always been afraid, and rightly so, of getting to like booze a little too much - and my particular poison is wine.
Susan Powter, that misguided apostle of low fattery, only finally got free of her alcohol problems when she added very good supplements to her diet and - I'm fuzzy on the details here - believe she ate more veggies and fewer grain carbs than she had preached formerly. I do know that she used to keep grain carbs everywhere to feed her constant hunger. Small wonder she also turned to alcohol as well. But once she gave her body what it needed, she finally got control. :)

:wave: Hi Marti66

When I first decided to start this thread I wasn't sure I should. In the back of my mind, thoughts were lurking that I would be thought of as weak willed, also I was a bit embarrassed by admitting I thought I had a problem. :rolleyes:
But after reading your note here, I had to chuckle :lol: It was too cute, and I also was delighted that I did decide to start the thread, especially after you said it helped you "kick a habit before it started". :clap: I am SO GLAD for that! I am also glad that so many others have felt comfortable enough to communicate with each other on this subject, I am not glad that they might have a problem like mine, but I am comforted in that I am not alone. :agree:
You know, ... there are other things you can do instead of drinking wine, and get the same health benefits. Eating Salmon regularly, and taking Grape seed extract, I am sure there are other supplements that work just as well. ANd if this thread keeps going I'll bet you will hear from the others on all kinds of things you can do. I started drinking wine long before we were told by the so called experts (whom ever they are) that it was a health benefit as long as you didn't over do it.:nono:
So in all honesty I wasn't drinking for the health benefit, but for the buzz I got and the relaxing qualities wine afforded me. :confused: When they finally came out with the fact that wine is actually healthy I was happy :roll: Now I keep waiting and hoping they will come out with another report that says "Susann go ahead and have a couple of glasses and don't worry about it, the so called experts say it is now safe to have 2 or 3 glasses because it will benefit weight loss" Hey ..... we all have our dreams .....Don't we? O Suzana:rheart:

Well I'm glade I did a search for wine and found this thread!

I too love my glass of red wine with my meals. The problem is, it's usually 3 glasses. Drinking wine is definitely part of my failures on LC WOE. It relaxes me, and takes my guard down and I lose the temptation to eat banned foods.

Also, alcohol is an energy killer. I've practiced tai chi and yoga over the past years and in all my reading, the masters say, "stay away from alcohol, because it is an energy killer."

Also, as far as sleep goes, you really don't get a restful night sleep after you've had even just on glass of wine.

In order to feel refreshed, you need 4 hrs of REM(rapid eye movement) level of sleep, per night. Alcohol will keep you from getting to this level of sleep. So, even though you slept all night, after having a little wine before bed, you don't feel refreshed, because you never made it to REM.

Now my question is; what are you drinking besides water, when you go out for dinner at a restaurant? I'm more fearful of the bad health effects of aspartame in diet coke, than I am of alcohol.

Could any of you provide me with some alternative choices to wine?

Thanx for your support Missatc but i'm afraid it was a little premature...............................
Well after posting on Saturday i actually did think i'd be ok with this " strategic choice" about when to drink and when not to.................................. :bash:

Maybe not.

We had a bottle of wine on Saturday night so that was a big no no and then on Sunday i thought more about it and didn't have any. (but it was tough! i thought about it a number of times!) But i was strong and said NO!

Then on Monday a friend came around for dinner and i knew he would want to have wine and because i'd made the most luscious chilli i thought "i'm entertaiing so it's ok!" And i had 4 glasses.

Then last night i just got home from work and felt fed up.....i feel abit like the people i work with (i've been there since january and the job itself is fantastic!) are seeing me as a bit of a dumping ground. I'll explain..... i'm only contracted to work 18 &1/2 hours a week (it's called job share) my week starts ~ 1.00pm Weds and i then work all day thurs and all day fri. But because 1 person is currently on sick leave and only doing 2 days and another is the other end of my week (mon, tue, weds am) the team which used to be 4 full timers is very short. So when they asked if i was interested in overtime i said "sure" :agree:

But now it feel like i'm being treated as the one who picks up everybodies slack ......including the deputy( who is annoying anyway but i've got over worse people than him) who is happy to tell me how much MORE money he is on than ME! :eek:

So yesterday was a bad day (part of a bad weekend really, drink wise!)

So i'm back to it now. I'm going to have to re think things and forget the plan thing....... coz it just doesn't do me any good and i feel worse for breaking the plan of action so i think "oh forget it".

Anyway i'm feeling much more positive today and i'm about to do my UBWO so speak to you all soon... and don't give up on yourselves easily. I think my biggest downfall is thinking it doesn't matter what i do anyway, because i'm trying to get a better body, a happier, healthier life and by giving up i'll get nothing......... I read in some ones journal a few weeks ago............ "the only time in life when you can coast is when your going downhill "......! And i'm NOT going downhill today!:wave:

Speak to you all soon.
Phoebe

:wave: Hello everyone;
Could someone tell me how to start my journal? I have been ready to start it for a few days now but for some reason I can't seem to find instructions on how to start. :confused: I hope I don't appear dense... and I'm sure it's right in front of me, but lately I have a lot of brain fog.... :daze:

Hi Phoebe :wave:

I read your post this morning, and I feel you should not beat your self up :bash: At least you are really trying! I know it is distressing to you, because you do so well and then life happens, and you fall down and skin your knees all over again! :confused:
I have done just that in the last 2 days. I was doing pretty well, I was waiting till late evening to have my wine, and that didn't afford me a lot of time to drink very much, so I was losing a little bit. But yesterday we went to a friends Birthday party, there were a lot of great people there and a lot of stuff to drink These people are drinkers! And I always come away from them knowing that I don't drink like that, and am glad that I do not! :agree:
I don't drink anything but wine, so that is what I had. Still I had more than my usual, because we were there from dinner time untill late evening. The food was good and of course it was a lot of stuff I have not touched in over a month.... Carbs! :rolleyes:
We came home and watched the late news and went to bed, but first I had another glass of wine with my hubby. I slept terrible, and this morning when I stepped on the scale I gained a pound and a half.... :mad: But not only that, I am mad at myself because I feel like I am not able to control this drinking thing.
But then when I get somewhat sensible, I resolve to keep on trying! I have been successful in the past, but I always made a wrong turn after my success, and would go back to my old ways of eating and drinking. The difference this time is that there is so much good news about Lo- Carb WOL, that I plan to stay eating this way, because it seems to do me a world of good. Keep your socks up Phoebe .... I just put mine back on and pulled them up.... stay in touch!:D :daizy:

Hello JimR OCDS :wave:


I thought your post on alcohol and the sleep pattern was interesting. I have heard that information before, and know it is correct. My problem with sleep is not being able to get sleepy... :yawn: For some reason, I seem to become wide awake every evening around 9pm. That is the only reason I drink, because it slowly makes me drowsey, I never drink during the day, :nono: if I did I could not function !
I can't speak for anyone else, but my only other beverage is water... I don't care for soda or juices, to me they are just not healthy. Water is the best :roll:

Could someone tell me how to start my journal?

Go to the main support forum page by clicking support forum at the top right hand of the page. Then, go to the Journal forum. Start a thread under the "O" section - journals are kept alphabetically. That's your journal!

Karen

osuzana, I often follow the Zone diet, more than the atkins diet lately. It seems to be easier, but it's also easier to cheat.

When I was on Atkins and behaving, I would have a hard time getting to sleep, and staying asleep. The problem turned out to be that I needed an evening snack, with some carbs in it. My blood sugar was dropping during the night and waking me up.

So, currently I'm on the Zone diet and part of the Zone diet is having a Zone favorable snack before bed. For me this includes,
1 orange or 1/2 of an apple cut up and mixed with 1/4 cup of cottage cheese and a sprinkle of almond slices. I sleep like a baby and feel refreshed in the morning. Refreshed of course unless I had some wine. Then I'll feel groggy the next day.

Anyway, you might look into having a snack with good carbs in it, before bed. Warm milk, would do the trick prehaps? You'll have to watch the total carb count for the day including this snack, if you chose to do it.

Thank You Karen! :rheart:
I'm going to sit down tonight and begin it, I think it will be a big help for me to keep it up. I love to write anyway, when I'm not cooking at the Inn or working at the B & B. ;)

Reading a fascinating book at the moment: 'Beyond the Influence: Understanding and Defeating Alcoholism'.

I'm about a third of the way through. The chapter I'm reading defines the difference between 'social' and 'problem' drinkers and alcoholics. It's good stuff for those of us who are wondering where we fit.

Check it out on Amazon!

Bye for now,

Joanna

:wave: Hello JimR OCDS
I have all the books on the zone WOE .... I just never could get into taking the time to figure out all the portioning of the foods, as far as blocks go. Seemed like too much of a time consumer for me. But I do have the book "Potatoes not Prozac" (Reccommended to me by Karen) and the writer reccommends (did I spell that right ? doesn't look right ) eating a potato before bed. You have to eat the skin, that is important. Turns out potatoes with skin are slower to turn to sugar than other carbs, you cannot eat them with any proteins though, but you can have butter or salsa. :yum: I have tried this little remedy a few times and it does help. I just got the book about a week ago and still have a lot to read. But I thought you might like to try the potato if you like them.

Joanna

Thanks for the Tip! I'm gonna check that out, where did you hear about it? I would love to know where I fit in. We went to a party last night and I know I don't fit in with the people we were with , We have been with them several times before. They definitely leave me in the dust when it comes to drinking.... I'm glad! :roll:
But I still never want to think that I would ever get to that point. I don't think I want to give up drinking all together because I really do enjoy the calm it gives me. But i would like to be able not to drink while I am trying so hard to lose weight. Maybe that little dream will just not work.... :( and I might have to face facts and just stop. ugh... It is so hard to think about never enjoying another glass of wine.... :eek:

I borrowed the book from one of the ladies in the AA group. She's in her thirties, very pretty, quite well-off I think (drives a Range Rover), and gave up drinking because she said it "got in the way". It made it difficult for her to be the person she wanted to be. I thought that was really interesting.

Anyway -- she's got me pegged. I'm a science editor and need to see things explained in a logical way, complete with tests, charts and references! :D

I just completed all the tests at the end of the chapter and according to them I'm not just at risk for becoming alcoholic -- I am one!! Oh Yuk! :eek:

There must be a test SOMEWHERE that tells me I'm not!! :rolleyes: (Is that denial I hear?)

Yeah, the thought of giving it up completely really makes me sad. I've got a lot of thinking to do.

I remember giving up smoking in my twenties. I LOVED to smoke, but I realized that at more than a pack a day, it wouldn't be long before I really began to harm myself. I took a few runs at it, but then one day I just stopped and that was that. I can even pinpoint the time when became a non-smoker. It was as if a switch turned in my head.

I'm hoping the same thing will happen with this 'monkey'.

Take care all,

Joanna

Was this the questionnaire? This was taken from the A.A. website (http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/)


Only you can decide whether you want to give
A.A. a try — whether you think it can help you.

We who are in A.A. came because we finally gave up trying to control our drinking. We still hated to admit that we could never drink safely. Then we heard from other A.A. members that we were sick. (We thought so for years!) We found out that many people suffered from the same feelings of guilt and loneliness and hopelessness that we did. We found out that we had these feelings because we had the disease of alcoholism.

We decided to try and face up to what alcohol had done to us. Here are some of the questions we tried to answer honestly. If we answered YES to four or more questions, we were in deep trouble with our drinking. See how you do. Remember, there is no disgrace in facing up to the fact that you have a problem.


1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days?
Most of us in A.A. made all kinds of promises to ourselves and to our families. We could not keep them. Then we came to A.A. A.A. said: "Just try not to drink today." (If you do not drink today, you cannot get drunk today.)

2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do?
In A.A. we do not tell anyone to do anything. We just talk about our own drinking, the trouble we got into, and how we stopped. We will be glad to help you, if you want us to.

3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk?
We tried all kinds of ways. We made our drinks weak. Or just drank beer. Or we did not drink cocktails. Or only drank on weekends. You name it, we tried it. But if we drank anything with alcohol in it, we usually got drunk eventually.

4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year?
Do you need a drink to get started, or to stop shaking? This is a pretty sure sign that you are not drinking "socially."

5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble?
At one time or another, most of us have wondered why we were not like most people, who really can take it or leave it.

6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year?
Be honest! Doctors say that if you have a problem with alcohol and keep on drinking, it will get worse -- never better. Eventually, you will die, or end up in an institution for the rest of your life. The only hope is to stop drinking.

7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home?
Before we came into A.A., most of us said that it was the people or problems at home that made us drink. We could not see that our drinking just made everything worse. It never solved problems anywhere or anytime.

8 - Do you ever try to get "extra" drinks at a party because you do not get enough?
Most of us used to have a "few" before we started out if we thought it was going to be that kind of party. And if drinks were not served fast enough, we would go some place else to get more.

9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to?
Many of us kidded ourselves into thinking that we drank because we wanted to. After we came into A.A., we found out that once we started to drink, we couldn't stop.

10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking?
Many of us admit now that we "called in sick" lots of times when the truth was that we were hung-over or on a drunk.

11 - Do you have "blackouts"?
A "blackout" is when we have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember. When we came to A.A., we found out that this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking.

12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink?
Many of us started to drink because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while. By the time we got into .A., we felt trapped. We were drinking to live and living to drink. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired.

What's your score?
Did you answer YES four or more times? If so, you are probably in trouble with alcohol. Why do we say this? Because thousands of people in A.A. have said so for many years. They found out the truth about themselves — the hard way.

But again, only you can decide whether you think A.A. is for you. Try to keep an open mind on the subject. If the answer is YES, we will be glad to show you how we stopped drinking ourselves. Just call.

A.A. does not promise to solve your life's problems. But we can show you how we are learning to live without drinking "one day at a time." We stay away from that "first drink." If there is no first one, there cannot be a tenth one. And when we got rid of alcohol, we found that life became much more manageable.

Karen

Susann,
Yes the Zone can be difficult to get follow at first. However, once you do, you have much better knowledge about the food you eat. It’s probably what most Atkins dieters who make it to maintenance know about food. Also, I do feel good being on it, but unlike Atkins, it’s easy to go over on carbs, because you’re taking in the max you should consume for the day, just following the diet. Which means a cheat has a greater negative impact than on Atkins. Myself, I haven't seen the weight-loss that I saw in Atkins, mostly because I cheat too often, but I’ve managed to maintain where I am, which is a good thing. I eat out, and I eat out often, which is where I usually have to have my two glasses of merlot and when I drink wine, I become loose and it’s easy for me to give into desert and other no-no’s.


The potato before bed thing may have to do with potassium. One of the things you have to be careful with, on the Atkins diet, is the lack of potassium, this is according to my doctor. My understanding is that potassium controls the rhythm of your heartbeat. Don’t get enough and you can have irregular heartbeat rhythms. Too much potassium can be dangerous. Lack of potassium can also cause insomnia.

Hello JimR OCDS :wave:


Thank You for the note;


You mentioned a bit about Potassium, it does worry me a bit.
I take a water pill daily prescribed by my doctor. He had also prescribed a potassium pill along with it about 9 months ago....
I had severe stomach problems during the time I took the potassium, we did not connect it to the potassium, so he gave me Prylosec to help with the heartburn and uncomfortable feeling I had in my stomach. It didn't help! I went back to him and told him, He took me off the Potassium but kept me on the water pill.
Lo and behold my stomach problem went away and so did the heartburn... About two months ago I started taking supplements and potassium was included.... What do ya think? :confused:
Yep! Stomach problems started all over again, but it didn't register untill about a week later after I missed a dose or two of the supplements! I eliminated the potassium and have been fine ever since. :p
So now I wonder if Atkins is going to cause problems in this area for me. I take the water pill because my blood pressure is slightly elevated and I have edema. My Doc. thinks it's because of the weight I have gained in the past two years. I think it's a combination of a lot of things and wonder if drinking has something to do with it, although I have heard that wine is a diuretic. I have to wonder about that! :daze:
Anyway thanks for the tip. :D

Susann,
I too suffer from heartburn. It goes almost completely away, when I stay low-carb. Wine does contribute to it.
Also, American wine has sulfates in it, and this could cause the problem of heartburn. Also, red wine has histamines, so I tend to get a running nose with posts nasal drip, which also causes heartburn.

O well! Like an old friend once said to me, "don't get old, it'll kill ya!" :D

Hi you guys,
I had a chance to drop by and visit awhile and this thread caught my eye, because I am a drinker. other than the alcoholism problem that has been discussed, I would like to know if others like me simply included it in their lifestyle (without guilt). I don't drink every day, but when I drink its to catch a buzz. during a weight loss phase, I drink less, when in maintain mode I drink a few more. a coors light has five carbs, wine says 1.2 for a fluid ounce for dry, 2.3 for sweet. I just do the math and adjust carbs accordingly. I never eat when I drink, ruins the buzz :rolleyes: if you know you are going to drink 3 glasses of wine, adjust. do 20 sit ups, anything... I used to struggle with this too, then I realized that to say I was never going to drink again was not a goal, and this is a way of life, my life, one I want to enjoy and embrace, and if I get to lose weight meanwhile, well, that's a bonus, learning to eat a healthy low carb lifestyle is a facsinating journey. There is so much knowledge, data, and information that it can only benefit, sorting out what's right or wrong for me and believing in myself and that this is not just another diet or attempt at weight loss with the possibility of failure...but a complete and honest change of lifestyle...then I have already succeeded. I have gone from a 26w to an 18-20w, its taken me a bit more than a year, next year, i maybe 16 -18w, and the year after that maybe there won't be a w in the size... ;) ..its all good and so then is life.
If you want to drink, then drink. If you think you have a problem, then you have another decision to make too.
Just my 2 cents,
Jane

Jane,

Like you this thread caught my eye. I had a lifestyle that always provided the opportunity to have a few drinks - regularly. Entertaining clients or staff; going out on a Friday for a few. But I found that this was part of the reason I gradually gained weight over a prolonged period. For me, the drinking led to eating without being responsible, not excercising, and I think it slowed down the digestion of food. Fortunately, I always drank socially. I now drink much, much less than I used to and although I don't follow a low carb diet as religiously as some, carbs are something I'm relatively cautious about too and I do moderate my intake.

When anything becomes a very regular habit, its time to re-examine what you're doing. To Susann - if weight loss is your goal, why not try going without alcohol for while, and see if that helps you get to where you want to go. From my experience, just avoiding being in certain circumstances was half the battle. Eliminating alcohol for a while can be a good motivator if it helps you get to your goal weight and it will likely have some other good side-effects too.

As for sleeping, the thing that does it for me is picking up a book and trying to read in bed. Within a few minutes I'm off..........

Hey Jane :wave:

I like your attitude! I guess you could say that is how I have felt about drinking wine for many years. For me it is a real treat to be able to sit down at night and enjoy those evening hours and sip away, relax and get a buzz, get sleepy :yawn: and go to bed.
But recently in the past few years, I have been gaining weight by leaps and bounds.... :mad: I just can't believe it! I am not a big eater, nor am I a big snacker. So it must be the fact that I am a wine drinker.... at least that is what all the information I have been taking in is pointing to.
The hard part is letting go of a habit I happen to enjoy a lot, just to lose weight. It seems like on the nights I try not to have my wine, I just don't know what to do with myself, or how to sit still and try to relax into the evening. I know I CAN do it, because I have done it before, I just don't like doing it ! :rolleyes:

Susanne,
Is it just recently you have been gaining weight? and yet you have been drinking wine in the evenings all this time? would age or something else cause the wine to suddenly have this effect? I am afraid I am not knowledgable enough on those things. (I take a PM now and then when I need to sleep.) your idea of waiting till later in the evening to have the wine is a good idea, if you want to cut back on the amounts, maybe adding a bit of soda or something? would cut it back even more, but honestly, unless you are chugging a quart of the stuff, or think you might have a problem that needs attention, why beat yourself up over it? you will lose weight slower, period. which is more important at this point? can you switch to a PM ( to sleep) for a couple of weeks then when you get off induction (or what ever) you could add a bit of wine now and then? what if, while you were in weight loss mode, you ONLY drank those three drinks in the evening and did not drink anywhere else for say, one month? maybe you have begun to drink more than those three glasses and that has caused the weight gain? this is your LIFE, you can do what ever you want with it, there is no crime or shame in wanting to enjoy a bit of wine, unless it makes you unhappy. you have not failed, you will not fail, but your results WILL be different. What will happen if you purge wine from your life? will you spend the entire time you diet waiting for the time you can have wine again? will you never sleep? will you resent having to give up something you really enjoy and thus toss away a healthy lifestyle? will you substitute something that may be unhealthy? I have faith that you will figure out what will work for you, what results you are trying to achieve and at what rate, now that you have found a healthy way to live you will find a compatable way to work it into your life so that every day is a joy, not a hardship, I bet you find a way to meet this challenge. mine challenge is snacks. I LOVE snacks. I think I would eat clods of dirts, if it were in bite sizes on a plate. (by the way..how many carbs in a clod of dirt?)
fight the good fight,
Jane

:wave: Hello again Jane,

Yes the weight gain and difficulty losing it has a lot to do with age. About 4 years ago my weight was around 145#s Every year after that I started to put on about 12#s a year. WHen this first started to happenn I would get right on the Atkins Plan and lose what I needed to lose. But in the last 2 years it is not working. I am going through peri menopause, and since that all started everything has changed! :eek:
The last time I went on the Atkins plan I could not lose the weight untill I quit drinking my nightly wine, then it came off, but yes, It was distracting, and I really had a hard time giving up something I enjoyed a lot. I could hardly wait to be able to have wine again. It was almost like torture. It was one of the hardest things I had ever done, except for having to go to the dentist once in a while, and just over a week ago, we had to put our beautiful 13 year old mixed Cocker "Fergie" to sleep. She was my baby and I'm still deep in sadness over that.
I know I will get it right sooner than later on this wine thing....Life is SO full of not so great stuff sometimes, makes you wonder why things that make you feel good, are always found out to be not so good for you. Like smoking....I used to smoke years ago, my kids were young and were learning about the dangers of smoking, I was younger, and figured I would quit when I was older, well their little begging faces, every day, asking me to quit.... because they feared I would die... just did it for me! :confused: I quit!!! But I really loved smoking....uuuggghhh. I hated to give it up!
Ice Cream is good.... but makes you fat!.... Pasta is sooooo good but it has lots of carbs :mad: ..... And Bread,.. I thought was my friend, because I love bread, it doesn't love me. See what I mean?
Oh well no use complaining, it's not gonna change. But Hey,... thanks for the note of encouragement, I do appreciate it! :)
That what is so neat about this site. People like you, who care enough to write and encourage people like meeee! Osuzana

I've been lurking on this thread since it's inception.

Drink is important to me. Usually my drink of choice is red wine (especially when LCing), often it's beer, and on special occaisions, Scotch.

I drink maybe twice a week. When I drink, 90% of the time it is to get high or a "buzz" (the other 10% of the time it's just a glass). It is not uncommon for me to drink a bottle of wine or a sixpack in an evening. Or more.

In this higher state, I play guitar, write in my journal, listen to music, clean something that hasn't been cleaned in ages, write letters to old friends, have intense and terrific debates and conversations with the individual I've gotten drunk with, make love with my husband, make incredible meals for 20 or more, walk my dogs, spin wool, design very funky patterns, plan terrific holidays. When drinking, I do not drive, fight, go to bed early, or watch television.

Drinking is part of my healthy lifestyle. It is not for everyone.

I'm not saying I have not had regrets the next morning; after nights when I've had too much red wine, tried to make a strawberry marguerita substituting strawberry yoghurt for frozen strawberries, called an old boyfriend from highschool in the middle of the night and woken up his pregnant wife etc. This is all part of the experience.

Drinking enhances my life. If I didn't feel this way, I wouldn't drink. Everyone is different.

My best to you all!

Janice

Hmmmm Janice :cool:
Your reply is a very interesting read. Reminds me of myself when I was in my 20's and in a band in NYC . I had lots of fun and good times. ( in that band for 9 years) :thup: Now I'm older, and married with grown children. I also don't drink as much as I used to. And parties are rare! :D Gosh........ where did the time go? Osuzana

In actuality I avoided popping into this thread as I figured it was just another one of those preachy "the perils of alcohol and LCarbing threads :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. thanks for the post on the "Alcohol Thread" osuzana to alert us to take a peak...great discussion going down here :thup:

For years one of my hobbies has been to make Homemade wine... mostly red... I find it incorporates occcasionally and nicely into a LC WOL...in fact most of my friends are great wine makers and it is fun to gather and try new vintages... I must honestly say that I do not drink a glass every evening at dinner but on occassion when I host a dinner party the wine glasses make an appearance... ;)

Bonnie

Just wanted to add:

This WOL can take you to many levels...I respect each and every one's decision in whatever path they chose that works for them... :thup:

Two great quotes that my friends and I share on a constant basis are:

"All work and no play makes Jack a very dull lad"

and my overall favorite from a dear friend that we share when we are out and about having a good time... our toast to each other is :

"Who has more fun than people!" ;)

Life is what you make of it!

Bonnie

I have just sat and read every single thread. Janice from Alberta(we are neighbors :wave: ..lol)...you are too funny!! :D :D

I use to drink everynight. I loved it. Since low carbing it...I just can't. Makes me get drunk way too fast. I'm a vodka drinker.

One thing I haven't done since low carbing is have red wine.

Does red wine not put us out of ketosis??? :confused: :q:

hugs...Cin

Cyn,

First and foremost remember the rule" YMMV" and the effects of red wine in moderation reacts differently with each individual... I am going quote what the Eades have to say about red wine in their latest edition of PPLifeplan:

This is in regards to Fibrinogen:

" this component of the body's blood- clotting system is not related to cholersterol or its carriers. Fibrinogen forms the strands of the framework onto which the clot forms. The higher the amount of fibrinogen in the blood, the greater the tendency to form clots and, therefore , the greater the risk for heart attack or stroke. When the body sustains an injury of any kind, fibrinogen rushes to the site to begin to patch the damage with a clot, snaring the solid components of blood ) the red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets) in a web of fibrous strands. For this reason, it's difficult to get an accurate measure of fibrinogen if you've been sick, injured (even a minor injury), had surgery, or even been under major psychological stress, because the levels skyrocket in these circumstances. Levels taken in the abscence of such tramas that rise above 335 can signal an increased clotting risk. Smoking also drastically increases fibrogen levels, and if anyone with a high reading, stopping smoking is of paramount life-saving importance. If you suffer from any of the many insulin- resistance disorders - diabetes, high triglycerides, low HDL, excess weight - you should ask your physician to check your fibrinogen level, since it tends to run higher in the presence of these disorders. The good news that eating a diet lower in carbohydrate, partaking of a little wine or alcohol, and exercising will help to lower your fibrinogen."


Bonnie

As soon as I have a drink of red wine, my face goes bright red.(The white does it to a lesser extent, and I haven't tried enough of other alcoholic beverages to be sure.) Years ago, I saw some grape sugar in my HFS, and tried it, thinking it would be better than white sugar for sweet situations. Within very few minutes, I was slammed with a vicious headache - every time. So I've since decided that I am allergic to grape sugar. Then wine gave me a slight headache. Hmm, could it be the grapes, the sugar, or the alcohol that bothers me? I've never resolved this issue, but if you set a lovely large bunch of sweet grapes in front of me, I exhibit the same "control" as any alcoholiic. Hmmm again. I guess I shall conclude only that grape sugar in any of its manifestions is a carb too much.:D

Hello Thinny :wave:

I'm sure you are allergic to something that grapes contain. If I eat the grape, especially the green or white grape, I get really bad heartburn. I have no problem drinking dry red wine though, but sweet Red wines do the same thing! And forget about white wine.... I get a headache every time I drink it. Same thing with Champagne. :daze:

I just don't know :confused: O'suz

I prefer white wine to red now, but since our family has trouble with alcohol, it makes my teetotaller hubby paranoid if I even consider buying a bottle. So I won't. It's certainly not worth asserting my independence by flirting with a potential addiction, and besides, a good gingerale will do the job a lot cheaper. :D

this has been a very interesting thread, I learned that real life is happening here. what has come to light for me is I am not alone, I was beginning to think I was the only person in the world who drank without guilt, while on low carb, I simply cannot tell you the huge positive that bit of knowledge has given me. Bonnie, have you considered trying to make a low carb wine? using less sugar to activate the yeast? maybe a lower carb fruit like strawberries? can that be done? I love the chemistry of low carb, I have managed to make quite a few unacceptables into occassional doables, its part of the continuing education of eating healthy. and keeping life interesting.
Janice, you so accurately described my drinking, I was shocked and delighted. Life is a gift to unwrap and enjoy, not to put on a shelf and dust.
Thinny, what did you mean by " not worth asserting your independence"? Is drink the only thing you would not assert your independence about? I found that to be intriguing, maybe we could start another thread and discuss that.

best, Jane

Alcohol means a whole lot of different things to a whole lot of people, and what they feel about it changes as they grow older and change.

I don't want to sound like the 'leader of the women's temperence union' (as my mother used to say), ESPECIALLY as I have thoroughly enjoyed drinking all my life, but alcohol is a drug, pure and simple. It alters brain chemistry, just as cocaine, marajuana, or cigarettes do. The specific brain chemicals altered may be slightly different depending on what substance you use, but the results are similar.

And for some people it's addictive, and their brain chemistry is altered permanently. And many don't realize the addiction is taking place for years. They are proud of the fact that they can "hold their liquor" better than most, and rarely suffer bad aftereffects from a night of drinking. But these characteristics aren't necessarily a good thing. They indicate that your body processes alcohol differently than most people's.

It's legal, but something that has to be watched I think. And if you have alcoholics in your family it should be watched even more closely, in the same way that you watch more closely if you have relatives with breast or prostate cancer.

Not all alcoholics are lying in the gutter with a brown paper bag -- in fact the vast majority aren't. But alcohol is the third largest killer in the U.S. today.

Just some sobering thoughts.

Joanna

I don't want to sound like the 'leader of the women's temperence union' ..guess what Joanna...with your comments that's exactly what you do sound like :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ... as stated in my first post I avoided this thread simply because of remarks like this...most of us here are smart intelligent folks and know what different levels alcohol can take one if they let it get out of hand..the main point some of us are trying to make here is that not all folks do let it get out of hand and can exercise control...sooo before this thread again gets tooo preachy...and it is suggested that I make another trip to the "Confession Booth". :) ..have to say one stop shopping here just like a SuperWalmart ;) going to say adios to this thread :wave:

Bonnie

Bonnie....
Please stick around...don't not come back here. I, as well as others really enjoy your posts.

Please reconsider. :(

hugs...cin

Sorry if I pushed one of your buttons.

I DID say in the beginning of that post that I've enjoyed drinking all my life.

All I was trying to point out is that it's not just an innocent and fun thing for some people.

Enough. I'll be quiet now.


Joanna

Jane, I don't believe in firing my big cannons at mosquitos - I save them for arguments/situations that really are tremendously important to me/our family. Therefore, knowing my own prospensity to any kind of carb addiction (and that includes alcohol, BTW), along with my family history of losing control over alcohol consumption, etc., I don't find it necessary to fight with my hubby over my "right" to drink as an adult. Family peace is worth more to me. For one thing, I WILL accept a drink once in a while - like champagne at a wedding! :) I can trust my hubby to get us home safely, and he doesn't object to this amount. And I KNOW that I can have a drink anytime I really want it (I handle the finances and have a valid licence :)); so that gives me the right to refuse to drink w/o blaming my DH. It's MY decision.

But I have to admit, it gives me palpatations of the heart when I see any of my kids drinking - and all 6 exhibit some degree of carb intolerance. It is scary. Sandra

I'm the one who ordered some 5hpt a week or two ago. It arrived on Tuesday and I took it as directed but noticed no effect so I haven't bothered with it since. However also on Tuesday, after drinking too much twice over the holiday weekend and gaining a couple of pounds, I had already decided it was Get a Grip Day (not the first one in my life :p ). That evening I made sure I only had 3 glasses of wine (seems to be the max for me for weight loss) and the last two evenings only 2!

A big advantage of drinking less is that I have more time to do something else. After one or two glasses I can still spend half an hour on the treadmill or lift weights--more than that and I just get sweaty and pissed off or, more often just read or sit in front of the TV. I'm not definitely not like the person (forget your name, sorry) who can drink a bottle of wine and get a whole lot accomplished at the same time!

And, I lost the weight I gained on the weekend, plus half a pound. So I'm feeling quite cocky.

However, it's Friday. Dangers await.

Janis

Janis, danger only awaits the unwary and ignorant. Plan something else for tonight and the rest of the weekend that will keep your brain and attention focused on non-drinking scenarios. Don't get bored and find the bubbly going down the hatch w/o thinking. THINK! A rational thought as to why you decided to have your wine is much better than having your elbow and mouth acting out of habit, because some habits are the immediate ancestors of addiction. :) Sandra

Thinny, I never said I planned to spend the weekend in a drunken stupor!

I went to 2 music rehearsals, contributed 3 kinds of appetizers to a large dinner party, did the NY Times weekend crossword, bought a bunch of annuals for hanging baskets . . . and much more. None of which involved drinking except the dinner party, where I was careful and moderate.

I was joking when I said "dangers await". I just meant that I might drink a little too much (which I didn't), not go on some kind of a bender.

Janis

Well I DID go on a bender yesterday. :(
My kids went to their dad's and hubby had to work. So about 4:00 I poured myself some wine. Well one glass lead to another and yet another and you know what I mean. Today I feel terrible and the thought of food makes me sick! I forced down some scrambled eggs but that is all. Which leads me to the question:
What food is good for a hangover??
I know I need to eat! Also, this WOE seems to be working although slowly. And I don't believe it's just the wine but the fact that I never want to eat! (hung over or not!) Meat is just really turning me off lately. I've never been a big meat eater anyway. And I never want to cook anymore as I just don't like food! :(
Someone please offer suggestions as I'm about ready to give up this WOE. I know that not eating enough is a big problem and also this LC'ing makes the wine go to my head way to fast! And no, I don't want to give up my wine. :mad:
Thanks for this great thread!
Tiffy

Water water water....and time. Yor body will process the wine in its own time. I don't think you can hurry it up -- sad but true.

Have faith in the WOE. You don't have much to lose, and I think the whole process is much slower for those of us who want to lose only 10 or 15 pounds.

Have you tried tofu as an alternative to meat? Can't abide the stuff myself, but for some people it seems to be a workable substitute. The silken stuff works well in a morning shake (even I like it that way! :D).

And remember what I'm just beginning to learn -- You can't drink like you used to when you eat low carb! Take it slow!! :daze:

Take care of that head!!

Joanna

P.S. I can identify with the kids going to their father thing. Went through that for years and felt awful about them having to do it but greatly relieved to have a break from tham and then guilty about feeling relieved etc.etc. etc. Not a lot of fun. (No wonder you let lose!! :) )

Originally posted by janis
I'm the one who ordered some 5hpt a week or two ago. It arrived on Tuesday and I took it as directed but noticed no effect so I haven't bothered with it since.

Three days are not going to make a difference with a supplement like 5-HTP. It's not like taking an aspirin and your headache goes away. You have to give your body time to figure out how to use it.

Another supplement that's helpful in the treatment of cravings is L-Glutamine. Here is the scoop...

-a non-essential amino acid
-one of two primary energy providers that burn glycogen to provide fuel for the brain
-protein building block - supplies the brain with energy and nourishment for healthy brain function.
-enhances mental alertness, learning processes and is also required by the brain as a neurotransmitter
-necessary for burning glycogen, a principle fuel for the brain and also for stimulating a variety of neuro-functions
-onsidered beneficial for reducing sugar and alcohol cravings
-reduces pain and alleviates fatigue caused by poor metabolism
-naturally produced by the liver and kidneys
-additional supplementation may be beneficial in the treatment of alcoholism, reducing cravings and mental degeneration
-may be used to help treat colitis, dizziness, ulcers, motion sickness, hypertension, ear infection and sore throat.

Karen

Does anyone else seem to get drunk faster on the lc wol?

There was a great thread on the effects of alcohol on us LCers just a few days ago but I can't remember where it was.....

Anyone?

Joanna

Thanks for the pep talk!
I just took a shower and that has helped. And drinking my water too!
I have never tried tofu but it looks gross. :)
I gave it some thought and am going to make a beef soup. Ground beef w/broth, alittle spinach and maybe some mushrooms. Maybe I can stomach that.
I can eat meat alot better if ground or shredded. It's the chewing it I seem to not care for. I don't know why but it makes me start thinking of what it really is and when I think like that I get grossed out. :(
And yes, you know just what I feel like about my kids! I love the break but then I feel guilty for thinking that way. Then I end up not even trying to enjoy myself and end up just sitting around feeling guilty! :rolleyes:
I also feel guilty because my hubby has to work and I have all this free time to myself. He's working again today and the kids are still w/their dad. I'm trying to feel better so I can get some stuff done to show that I'm not complety usless!
To be perfectly honest, I know I have it made! Good kids, a nice break when they go to their dad's, and a hard working husband who WANTS me to stay home. Yet then I feel guilty for "having the good life." I also worry that it will all come crashing down for some reason...hubby maybe getting laid off or a big major expence occuring. I swear, I am sometimes my own worst "friend". LOL!
And then the wine...I know I need to watch how much I drink w/this WOE. But it seems to