A friend of mine told me about this product called Ripped Fuel, it's "metabolic enhancer" and the bottles says it contains the following ingredients:

Chromium 200mcg
(from chromium picolnta)

Mahuang extracts (from arial parts) 334 mg
(standardized for 20mg ephedra alkkoloids)

Guarana Seed Extract 910mg

L-camatine 100mg

Has anyone used this? I have no idea what any of this stuff is or what it is supposed to do to your body. I hate to take it untill I know what the heck it is.

If someone could translate this stuff into plain English I would be very appreciative

Thanks, Tina

Ripped Fuel is another one of the many herbal combinations of the classic ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks.

It is in the same class as: Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, Thermadrene, Ultimate Orange, Beta-Lean ... as well as just doing it the old school way of popping a 20mg ephedrine hcl tab, a 200mg caffeine tab (Vivarin, etc.), and a baby aspirin.

You must be VERY careful to read the bottle before purchasing/using any ephedrine based product, as certain health conditions can be made worse if ephedrine (or any stimulant for that matter) is consumed. Off the top of my head, I would say high blood pressure, thyroid disorders, heart diesase, diabetes, hypogyclemia ... hmm ... there's a few more. Just read the bottle.

On the plus side, it is one of the most effective supplements that can help with the early weight loss that is critical for motivation during a weight loss program. It has been studied extensively for safety and effectiveness ... high marks for this ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin combo (also called ECA stack).

Now for some long winded background ....

- Ephedrine is an alkaloid (bitter organic base) found in various plant species of Ephedra, also called Ma Huang. Ephedrine is useful because it acts as a nasal decongestant, a central nervous system stimulant and as a treatment for bronchial asthma.

- Ephedrine has been shown to be very effective in elevating body temperature which can help you achieve your weight loss goals. It is not advisable to exceed 75 mg per day, taken in three divided doses.

- Ephedrine is a beta-adrenergic agonist. What that means is that it acts like adrenelin (adrenergic) in your body. However, it only acts on alpha receptors. Because of ephedrine's adrenalin-like pioperties it is very thermogenic which means that it causes your body to generate heat, which will in turn cause you to burn more calories.

Studies? OK ... It's a lot of scientific mumbo jumbo, but I put smileys at the key points if you wanna scroll down to them ...

Title: The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial.

Author(s): Astrup A Breum L Toubro S Hein P Quaade F

Journal: Int-J-Obes-Relat-Metab-Disord. 1992 Apr; 16(4): 269-77 1992

Abstract: The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is present in obese patients.

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Withdrawals were distributed equally in the four groups, and 141 patients completed the trial.

Mean weight losses was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24 (ephedrine/caffeine, 16.6 +/- 6.8 kg vs. placebo, 13.2 +/- 6.6 kg (mean +/- s.d.), P = 0.0015).

Weight loss in both the ephedrine and the caffeine groups was similar to that of the placebo group.

Side effects (tremor, insomnia and dizziness) were transient and after eight weeks of treatment they had reached placebo levels. Systolic and diastolic blood pressure fell similarly in all four groups.

:D :D We conclude, that in analogy with animal studies, the ephedrine/ caffeine combination is effective for the treatment of human obesity. :D :D

----

Title: The effect of chronic ephedrine treatment on substrate utilization, the sympathoadrenal activity, and energy expenditure during glucose-induced thermogenesis in man.

Author(s): Astrup A Madsen J Holst JJ Christensen NJ

Journal: Metabolism. 1986 Mar; 35(3): 260-5 1986 0026-0495

Abstract: Chronic ephedrine treatment of man has recently been found to enhance the thermogenic response to an acute dose of ephedrine.

Conceivably, this sensitization to beta-adrenergic stimulation might also affect the facultative component of diet-induced thermogenesis. The glucose-induced thermogenesis (GIT) was studied in five healthy female subjects after 3 months of chronic peroral ephedrine treatment.

Similar experiments 3 months after cessation of treatment served as controls.

During chronic ephedrine treatment a sustained :D 10% elevation of the metabolic rate was found compared to that in the control study. Plasma epinephrine levels were increased 87% during treatment. These increases tended to be positively correlated (r = 0.54, P less than 0.07). GIT expressed as a percentage of the ingested energy load was unaltered during chronic ephedrine treatment compared with that in the control study (9.0% v 8.9%).

The respiratory quotient (RQ) indicate that relatively more lipid was oxidized during chronic ephedrine treatment than in the control study. This change was observed in the fasting state as well as after glucose administration.

Certain effects of ephedrine seems to be appropriate to a thermogenic drug for the treatment of obesity:

:D A single dose of ephedrine stimulates thermogenesis, an effect that is enhanced during chronic treatment; Chronic treatment elevates the metabolic rate; and The substrate utilization is changed in favor of lipid oxidation. (otherwise know as "fat burning"):D

----
Title: Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Author(s): Pasquali R Casimirri F Melchionda N Grossi G Bortoluzzi L Morselli Labate AM Stefanini C Raitano A

Journal: Clin-Sci-Colch. 1992 Jan; 82(1): 85-92 1992 0143-5221

Abstract:

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates).

L-(-)- Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo.

2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments.

Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar.

The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine.

:D :D (This study shows that ephedrine by itself doesn't really help with weight loss, but it will help you maintain positive nitrogen balance, which is critical for keeping muscle mass during dieting. Trust me it's a good thing ... SO ... If you take ephedrine be sure to take it with caffeine. Most products come mixed that way. Caffeine is also known as guarana.) :D :D

First of all let me say thank you for replying to my post. That had to take some time (no matter how fast you type LOL). I read every word in the Studies... scientific mumbo jumbo included!:D

I do have a couple more questions if you don't mind.

I noticed that when I took the Ripped Fuel today my allergies didn't bother me as much, as a matter of fact I usualy have to take a benadryl every 4 hours (per doctors instructions) and I didn't have to take any today. Could it be the Ephedrine? I noted that you said Ephedrine is traditonaly used as a nasal decongestent, so I am guessing thats where it came from.

My friend gets a much better "energy high" from this product (I swear its like she is on crack or something...bouncing of the walls and talking a mile a minute)....however she does not drink caffine and I on the other hand drink about 10 cups of coffee a day. Does Ephedrine have a different effect on different ppl or is it the caffine that is making her hyper?

I know this is going to be a dumb question so please don't laugh at me, but does thermogenic mean the same thing as a fever? Or is it a different kind of body heat. Ok OK I said it was dumb :p

Thanks again for all the info it was very interesting. As a matter of fact I am going to go read it a third time!

Tina

Could it be the Ephedrine? I noted that you said Ephedrine is traditonaly used as a nasal decongestent, so I am guessing thats where it came from.

Yep, that's probably it. Next time you look at the side of a box of cold medication you will probably find PSEUDO-ephedrine as the main ingredient. It's not the same for fat loss, but it "opens you up" so you can breathe. The "real" ephedrine used to be in there, but people were abusing it.

Does Ephedrine have a different effect on different ppl or is it the caffine that is making her hyper?

If you're body is used to a high caffeine intake, you will not feel as "hyper" as someone who doesn't take in caffeine. (I should also add that the "hyper" is just a side effect and will go away in a few weeks)

Each one of those doses of ripped fuel has 200mg caffeine in it. That's alot if your body isn't used to it. Which reminds me, by the way, avoid your coffee within 4 hours of a Ripped Fuel dose to avoid "overstimualtion".

but does thermogenic mean the same thing as a fever? Or is it a different kind of body heat.

Hmmm ... good one, but a fever is the body's defense for killing off infections. Even though thermogenesis will make you feel hotter and raise body temperature the same as a fever, it will only go so high. You won't be getting a 101 degree Ripped Fuel induced thermogenic response. You probably will feel hot though.

Sometimes when I am on an ECA based product I throw off heat like a blast furnace. Fern makes fun of me because of it. :D

Hope I answered your questions ...

P.S. ... I am from Audubon, NJ :)

You are so right about the caffine, bc a couple of weeks after she started taking the Ripped Fuel she called and said "this stuff isn't working anymore. Do you think I should take more of it?" Well since I didn't even know what it was at taht time, I told her "No, your body probably just got used to it, don't take more just stop taking it all together for a few weeks and give your body a rest, then try it again" Now that I read what you said about not exceeding the recommended amount I'm glad I told her that. People (myself included) don't realize that even though something is sold "over the counter" it can be dangerous.

To be honest I bought the bottle bc I was looking for a legal way to get some energy. We are moving from one side of Cherry Hill to the other and with two kids (10yo and 2yo) and no sugar rush to keep me going....well I am just so wore out.

How do you know fern? She is the greatest isn't she?

Audubon, NJ? hmmm...we have only been here a year so I'll have to ask my 10yo where that is (thank God for geography in school hahahaha)

Oh, before I forget...I clicked on your link and went to your site. I got about a hundred "run-time-errors" (not your fault my computer just hates pop-up adds) anyway I just realized that you answer these kind of questions for a living and I have never once saw you brag or try to sell your services....well what I am trying to say is "your a great guy"

Sorry to be so long winded.....have a great weekend!

Tina

Originally posted by tina3869
[BIs Dan great or what? I mean to take that much time to sit down and explain all that to me and to give me sientific studies to prove his point?

Let's hear it for DAN!!

"Dan! Dan! He's our man! If he can't help you no one can!"

:D [/B]

Ok, now Dan's head is going to get all big and I won't be able to sit in the same room as him!!! Just kidding!

Tina, I am flattered that you think I'm great! And yes, so is Dan! He is my boyfriend so that's how we know each other....
One of the reasons I love him so much is because of the way he loves to help people. (like posting scientific studies and giving info to people from his own personal experiences) :)

Anyway, Audubon is only like 10 minutes from Cherry Hill!!!

:)

couple of weeks after she started taking the Ripped Fuel she called and said "this stuff isn't working anymore. Do you think I should take more of it?" Well since I didn't even know what it was at taht time, I told her "No, your body probably just got used to it, don't take more just stop taking it all together for a few weeks and give your body a rest, then try it again"

About this ... the side effect may go away, but the ECA still will work its magic even if you can't "feel it". In fact, the longer you take it, the better. But I would stop taking it after 8 weeks on, then do 4 weeks off.

I know some guys who do 12 weeks on, but they don't take it on weekends. That is one way to go.

Greetings all,

My partner wants to loss some weight but she has tried the low carb thing and does not like it. She went to GNC and got a medication called Xenadrine. Does anyone know about it? What does it do? I am kind of leery of meds that promise fast weight loss. Does anyone know anything about it?

Thanks

Saliena

Hello! First of all, congrats on the weight loss ( I just got done reading your other post):D I have experience with Xenadrine and Hydroxycut, so here is my opinion. I would personally tell her not to take them! They dont work! They cost too much! Walmart sells a generic form of Xenadrine with the same exact ingredients for 1/2 the price. They make you moody and they are extremely hard to get off of! It is like a legal form of speed! If you want this kind of pick me up, just drink a pot of coffee!:D The ads are too good to be true and they are! They're computer touched up photos! Ever notice how everyone in those pictures suddenly has an awesome tan? I work in a salon with tanning beds and I am sorry but you cant get a tan like that in 6 weeks!:rolleyes: Just my opinion from personal experience. Tell her to save herself the money and the tears from emotional outbursts these pills cause and try some good old fashioned exercise!

Well Christine one of the spokepeople just happens to be Marla Duncan.
She's a been a fitness icon since the late 80's. And I can tell you that her pictures have not been retouched. If you've ever followed fitness/bodybuilding you'll also know how much her body composition has changed throughout the years as well as her pregnancy a few years back.
As far as the tans........most models use bottled tans as I do. It gives a nice even tan without the damage of UV rays. I get a tan like that within a week's time!

Hydroxycut has also worked for me! My bodyfat levels have never been so low! I've had three children and went down from a size 8-10 to a size 3-4 within less than 5 months.
Though the results from Hydroxycut for me peeked at about 4 weeks as I'd already lost most of the fat on my own previous to taking Hydroxycut.

I am returning to the gym after a two month lay off and Hydroxycut will be my favorite companion in the weeks to come.
Although my bodyfat levels are considered normal. Hydroxycut seems to melt off just enough to show the curves I've worked so hard for in the gym. It gives me the tight look I love!

But this is just my story!
Susie

On behalf of Hydroxycut!!!
I thought I would add my 2 cents, and I absolutely agree with Susie. I currently only take 2 per day and as a result have found the energy to join a gym and lose 7 lb's to date... and I will continue using the Hydroxycut according to the directions !!
:D

All of these products that are a combination of Epedrine (ma huang), caffeine (guarana), and aspirin (white willow bark) work for fat loss.

Some people like 'em, some don't. Personally, I love 'em. They do work ... and science can prove it. I wrote a lengthy post on ECA stacks in the Daily forum a while ago ... let's see if I can dig it up ...

Hmm, just my 2 cents : Ephedrine is a form of speed which is an A-Class drug. It is very addictive and is linked to heart problems, especially when used in combination with exercise. I know it is sold freely in health food shops. That doesn't mean it is safe ! Be carefull when you take it. My friend at home was addicted to speed, and she was skinny as hell, but she also had a year-long fight to come off the stuff and is now on anti-depressants

Hi there. I've done some research on the ECA stack and I have a question, or two :)

I recently quit smoking, I know that smoking increases metabolism (I believe the number is around 10%) and therefore quitting would decrease it. I have also been taking my rising and afternoon temperatures of late to see if I was indeed having problems with a thyroid issue. My doctor thinks not. I have noticed this past week that my temp upon rising has decreased between .2 - .5 a degree. Question is this: In your post about ECA stacks you mention that :

it is one of the most effective supplements that can help with the early weight loss that is critical for motivation during a weight loss program.

Obviously, this is not the start of my weight loss program ;) Do you think I would benefit from taking this for a few weeks? My BP used to be on the high side of normal it is now 130 / 79, normal cholesterol, etc.

Thx for the help,
Nat

It sounds as if your body has adjusted to yoru current activity level/calorie level, which is indicated by the drop in your temperature (thyroid slowing down as your body's natural defense mechanism to "stop wasting away")

An ECA would be a good choice here. When your temp slows again, add some thyroid boosting supplements to the mix (guggul & phosphates ... there is a product that combines an ECA with the thryroid boosters .... I think it is made by MHP, but the name escapes me .. Thyro-Stack, Thyrolean, something to that effect ...

Thyroslim (AM/PM) ... by MHP ... don't pay over $30 for it.

Thanks, Dan :)

I discovered something today while doing some independant research, CLA is being used to supplement for thyroid deficiencies? This came as a suprize; I have been taking CLA for a few weeks but for other reasons. I will look into Thyroslim (would that be 30$ US or canadian? ;))

Nat

I wasn't aware of CLA and it's use in the treatment of thyroid deficincy. What is the doseage listed in the study?

The only drawback to the orginal fat loss properties of CLA was that the dose was somewhere around 10g per day of I remember correctly, and that just makes it cost prohbitive for most.

The $30 was U.S. Sorry, I always forget that this is a Candian board ... :daze:

Figures, I cant find the damned article this morning ;) I will resume my search later. I am certain though that I saw this.

On average how long does it take to start noticing the effects of an ECA stack? My body temp on rising was 97.4, this is a good degree above what it's been in the past week ( averaging between 95.7 - 96.3). I'm at 1/2 the recommended dose for now and I plan on staying there for a few weeks. I was unable to get to sleep until 11:30 ish last night, unheard of for me. I sleep now like the dead and w/in 10 minutes of hitting the pillow.

N

Guggulbolic. I just started the CKD yesterday and wanted to get your opinion on the effectiveness of Adipo and Guggul together...or is taking Adipo by itself just as good? Or, is there something better out there? I want something to help burn the fact and provide an energy boost. I have a good cardio/workout plan in place and want to go from 18%bf down to about 10% or so.

I have read many of your posts and respect your opinion and feedback! Thanks.

They are both great products ... to use them effectively, I will dig up a post I gave a while back on the proper use of an ECA stack (well, adipoK is technically a NYC stack: norephedrine, yohimbine, and caffeine ... but stilll falls in the same category as ECA's) ...

First, you need to check your body temperature FIRST THING in the morning. That means as soon as you wake up.

If it's under 97.8, start taking Guggullipids and phosphates to
stimulate thyroid activity.

Once you get your AM temperature above 97.8, cruise there for a while. Keep doing your diet and exercsie plans as you normally do. Keep taking your morning temperature. It's important because it will show you when your thyroid adjusts to your supplements.

The first time that your temperature falls below 97.8 for three days straight, stop taking guggul and start taking AdipoK. Work yourself up to taking doses 3x day. Add in 3g of fish oil caps per day at this point. Remember to keep taking your AM temperature.

If when it drops again, switch back to guggul.

I've come across a lot of comments of late about cycling your ECA stack. The gist is that it's actually not a good idea to cycle (http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000006B.htm) an ECA stack because once your body gets accustomed to it and you no longer exhibit the symptoms (that aggitated or hyper quality), this is when it is actually working best at burning fat.

Any comments?

Nat

It has been stated that the ECA stack exhibits greater fat buring potential the longer you stay on ... however, if your thyroid senses that you are "wasting away" it will attempt to maintain homeostasis by slowing down production of the thyroid hormones, no matter how much ephedrine you take. Once it slows down (indicated by a lower morning temperature for 3 days straight) you need to get it going again, which is what the guggulipids and phosphates do.

In the example I gave above, it may look as if we are cycling on and off ECA very quickly, however, the changes in lower thyroid activity could takes weeks or months, IF AT ALL.

Thanks for the quick reply, Dan :)

N

Thanks for the quick response. You guys are a great source of information for this guy who has read and done....BFLife Plan, MuscleMedia articles, Muscle and Fitness, Protein Power, etc. It gets somewhat confusing after awhile...so thanks for supplying quick and "right on" responses.

http://www.personalhealthzone.com/ephedra.html

http://www.health-doc.com/healtharticles/MaHuang.html

There are two sides to every story, Goblins. Here's my contribution:

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000006F.htm
and from our own TrainderDan: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6744

Nat

For every article of support, there is one to negate....
LC is good for you - no LC is bad for you...

The truth of the matter is that I've had nothing but positive results with LC... and the only problem I had with ECA stacking was some brief depression (from the Ma Huang, I believe.)

I think that no one really knows the truth, and it really only matters what you want to believe. Do you believe the skeptics or are you a true believer? =)

What's best for you is probably what will work for you....

But we can't make good decisions without all the facts. Thanks for the "flip-side"....

Originally posted by goblins
But we can't make good decisions without all the facts. Thanks for the "flip-side"....

Exactly! Before you start something as important as LC or taking a supplement or buying a house you should have ALL the facts :)

Nat

:eek: I have been using the ECA stack combination for a while now, I didn't know that mahuang can enhance depression, I don't want nothing else putting on to my occasional depression. Well I am going to read the articles on this stuff, and stop using it maybe I will be able to feel better just LCing. I know that this ECA combination is not good for my health in the long run, but I guess I been so caught up and anxious in reaching my goal size that I haven't realize what this stuff can really do to my body. :rolleyes:
I noticed that when I stop using this stuff for a day or two I get into these mood swings and feeling sluggish that I begin eating more (lots of junk food *carbs*). :tears: Maybe once I stay away from this stuff and let my body function normally, I will feel better and keep on track with my Low Carb plan. ;)

Please let me know if Thermadrene would be OK to take whilst Low Carbing...

Appreciate the help...

MB, Thermadrene contains an ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine and an asprin precursor). The main ingredient being Ephedrine. An People use an ECA stack to increase alertness, speed up metabolism, aid weight loss, enhanced athletic performance and increase mental sharpness.

Because ephedrine acts as a general sympathetic nervous system stimulant, it can give users a “boost” or “pick up” similar to what you might feel after a cup or two of strong coffee. By mimicking the effects of epinephrine, ephedra can increase the output of blood from the heart, enhance muscle contractility, raise blood sugar levels and open bronchial pathways for easier breathing. In many cases, ephedra can result in a temporary suppression of appetite, which may help efforts aimed at dietary restriction and weight loss.

There is a thread here (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16108&highlight=Ripped+AND+fuel) about ECA that you should read over, but whether you should take it or not will depend on your health. The warning lable on Thermadene is quite long (and I have included it below) and you should not take it if you have any of the pre-existing conditions described. If you are in a position to try it I suggest starting off with a very low dosage (one third or one quarter the daily recommended dose) as your reaction to it may be quite strong.

Virtually all dietary supplements that contain ephedra-alkaloids also carry a strong warning on their labels which reads:
Women who are pregnant or nursing should avoid using ephedra-containing products. Keep out of reach of children. Avoid using ephedrine-containing products if you have high blood pressure, heart or thyroid disease, diabetes, difficulty in urination due to prostate enlargement, or if taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors or any other prescription drug. Reduce or discontinue use if nervousness, tremor, irritability, rapid heartbeat, sleeplessness, loss of appetite, or nausea occur.

HTH,
Nat

Thank you. I took a capsule yesterday and I did seem a little "amped" up. I was just wondering if it was safe to use it now & then so thanks for your reply. I might take it for a big sporting competition coming up and see what happens...

I am made this thread as a "greatest hits" of all of the thermogenic questions/threads that are around and putting them all in one place.

That way, there is only one place to look and get all of the info.

I consulted with Ms. IslandGirl from way over in the low-carb products forum, so this will be a joint venture. :)

Hi its been really enlightning reading this thread, Im from the Uk and have just recived details about Xenadrine in the post it looked interesting and it mentioned that it has had great success in the US. and after readind this thread I can see just how popular it is, I would love to try it as I have just given up smoking and Iam fighting at the moment to keep from putting any weight on, never mind gettin it says that g it off. On the bottom of the advert it says ...........Quote, The EEC formulation of Xenadrine contains Synephrine which may result in a small reduction in benifit but a probable greatly enhanced safety profile.

Have they spoilt it for us here? I cant afford to be throwing money at somthing that isnt going to work, or should I hold fire untill I go to Canada in a couple of months and get the real thing.

Originally posted by Carol LeFa
The EEC formulation of Xenadrine contains Synephrine which may result in a small reduction in benifit but a probable greatly enhanced safety profile.

Have they spoilt it for us here? I cant afford to be throwing money at somthing that isnt going to work, or should I hold fire untill I go to Canada in a couple of months and get the real thing.

Carol, you might want to read this thread (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27472&highlight=Synephrine) ;)

I would suggest holding off until you're here - but be warned products with ephedra in them at a dosage higher than 8mg (which is just about all of them) have been taken off the shelves in Canada. You can, however, usually get them if you ask (they are kept behind the counter)

Nat

Well it just goes to show you, the EEC thinks were BUGS Im soooo glad that I asked for help on this one, I will hold on untill I get to Banff, and while hubby is confrencing I will be pharmacy
hunting.

Thanks Nat, for all your help.

Hi Sadai !


Glad that you got back to me. I had written a question saying that I can see that you have done quite well in losing weight and that you said that Hydroxycut helped you, and that you love it.. I was wondering if you could tell me more about how Hydroxycut has helped you? Has it helped? is there a noticed difference when using as compared to just dieting?? I am just really interested in trying this, and I am looking for as much information as possible..

Take care!

This information was great, but does anyone know what I could take if I was allergic to asprin?

Originally posted by mrsu
This information was great, but does anyone know what I could take if I was allergic to asprin?

I would say 'No' - the A in ECA is asprin (as either asprin or a derivative).

Nat

I guess I have to do it the old fasion way. :D

MRSU ...

Most of the studies shown place great emphesis on the EC portion of the ECA stack. The ephedrine/caffeine combination is the major duo in the fat burning department.

If you are going to take an herbal preparation, look for ones without aspirin, white willow bark, or anything that is standardized for salicyin (?) content.

BetaLean by EAS doesn't contain any aspirin related ingredients, so that's an option for you.

Welcome back from your vacation Dan,

I've read through this thread a few times trying to figure out what to get, etc... Most of your recommendations are fairly dated. Can you give us your top 3 recommended brand names for an ECA stack to buy? Are generic just as good? Any brandnames you would recommend staying away from?

Thanks,

Mike

At the time of this writing, I suggest the following 3 products:

(1) BetaLean by EAS
(2) Adipokinetix by Syntrax (technically, a NCY stack)
(3) Xenadrine by Cytodyne Technologies

As for generics, the old tried and true is to take 20 mg of ephedrine hydrochloride, 200mg caffeine, and (if you want) 81 to 200mg aspirin.

Knock-off brands are scary to me because of quality assurance issues. You get what you pay for .. well, in my mind anyway.

Wow, what a great thread and kudos to Dan for becoming such a Guru. Like Mike, I'm curious as to what he recommends concerning brands.

I'm in Canada and these products are very hard to find. Especially since the following:

http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2002/01/09/Consumers/ephedra_020109

Essentially Heath Canada (our FDA) has BANNED damn near every Ephedrine based product, especially targeting the weight loss products. The above link talks about their findings. Is there any truth to it?

When a huge organization supposedly founded to keep us safe bans a product so completely, going so far as to order a complete recall, I get a littler nervous. As it was I had to go to the States to buy Xenadrine since the Canadian version had been degraded from a fat burner to an energy stimulant. This also made me nervous. Why was Canada refusing to sell full Xenadrine? And that was BEFORE the ban. I haven't been to a GNC lately, but I'm curious as to what they have now if they couldn't even carry full Xenadrine before the ban.

Any comments? Are there alternatives to Xenadrine which are "safer" and still just as effective (let alone available)? Is Health Canada full of it? (see above link for details)

Thanks in advance,

Anthony

P.S. I find "rapid heart beat" listed as a warning on these products rather ironic. Aren't they SUPPOSED to increase your heart rate? I tried my US smuggled Xenadrine for a few weeks and I definitely felt my heart beating faster than normal

Originally posted by Justarius
I haven't been to a GNC lately, but I'm curious as to what they have now if they couldn't even carry full Xenadrine before the ban.


While they are not supposed to be 'officially' carrying these products, if you ask them quitely they usually have some behind the counter. I know of a few stores (GNC and others) that carry Hydroxycut - and it is still available today.

Nat

Hi there!
I just wanted to put my "two cents" regarding thermogenics. I recently trained for a bodybuilding competition (about a year ago) and have battled diets and my weight for 6 years now. I have tried every thermogenic out there. Most recently, Hydroxycut.

My advice it to make sure you are taking a safe amount and don't let it become something you rely on. My problem was when I first began taking it, the ephedrine in the pills curbed my appetite so much, that I'd barely eat. Shortly after taking the pill, I also experience jitters, dizziness, and extreme highs and lows when it came to energy. Those side effects all seemed to go away when my body became used to ephedrine. The thing I would caution is that when your body does adapt to it, don't get in the habit of taking more pills to feel those "side effects." Just because the side effects go away, doesn't mean the pill isn't working. That's when people over dose on ephedrine, and we've all read the horror stories.

I was also a trainer and the gym I was at was forced to pull products containing "ephedrine" because of their serious potential. The company quickly turned around and put the product back on the market, just under a different name. Ephedrine has many different names, so be watchful for those.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from taking thermogenics, I would just suggest that you make wise and educated choices. I recently had to get myself off of them because I was becoming dependent on them and that's not okay. Use them for a few weeks, then give your body a break for a week or so. Or try 2 days on, one day off.

Hope some of you can find this info useful :)
Good Luck!

Ephedra Supplement Has No Side Effects

The results of a study presented at the 42nd Annual Conference of The American College of Nutrition suggest that not all diet products with ephedra are created equal.

In this study conducted by Miami Research Associates in Florida, 12 mildly overweight adults received an ephedrine/caffeine/L-theanine-based weight-loss product twice daily for 14 days. Each dose contained 15 mg of ephedrine (from ephedra), 150 mg of caffeine (from green tea), 40 mg of grape-seed extract and a "neurothermic modulator" blend that included 10 mg of L-theanine.

Subjects were closely monitored for body weight, body water, percent of body fat, sleep quality, stress levels, caloric intake and fasting blood sugar.

Additionally, subjects were given regular electrocardiograms (EKGs) and underwent heart-rate variability and blood-pressure testing for a two-hour period after ingesting a dose of the supplement at each laboratory visit.

Over the course of the two-week period, subjects lost between 1 and 2.5 lb and 2% to 3% of their body fat. The extensive testing on health conditions found no significant changes compared to the prestudy values.

I've read that ephedra has the opposite effect on metabolism on those people who are hypothyroid. In the past, I have tried two different types of ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks. Each time, I gained weight. I am hypothyroid.

Secondly, if caffeine produces an insulin spike, would the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks be counter-productive to anyone on a low carb diet?

What supplements would you recommend for someone who is hypothyroid other than kelp?

On a more personal note, my friend Brent, who works in a place that runs 24/7, 12 hour shifts, took the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks to stay awake, as did many people on night shift. At the age of 38, he had a stroke and was told that the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stack contributed. Whether he had a pre-disposition to stroke, we don't know. So, be careful with this stuff.

I am currently living a low carb life style and felt terribly guilty for buying Hydrodxycut but thanks to NAT I felt better after visiting her confessional booth. However, I started taking them last Thursday..the two before breakfast and two before lunch. I had to tone that way down. I almost lost it. I felt like I was going to crawl out or my skin. So I cut it down to one before lunch and one before breakfast. Amarie stated that symptoms will subside once my body is use to the Ephidrine. Dan is this true? I mean I get dizzy and just feel really crappy. I really want to get that motivational boost you started this thread out with. I want to see results. I could care less about the energy. I have that naturally from working out. Just a quick FYI on side affects and if they will go away will help. Otherwise, I guess I will have to stop taking them. (Another 30 bucks down the drain)

HELP!! :daze:

FREE :wave:

Willy, I had slight symptoms when I started taking them - but I never went above half the dose (One pill 2 or 3 times a day). You should definitely start out with half the dose (I believe I suggested this to you in your confession booth post) and keep it there for the first few weeks.

The side effects do tend to dissapate with time - but not everyone can tolerate them. Keep a close eye on how you are feeling, please.

Nat

Originally posted by aztovaalex
I've read that ephedra has the opposite effect on metabolism on those people who are hypothyroid. In the past, I have tried two different types of ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks. Each time, I gained weight. I am hypothyroid.

aztovaalex, there is a warning on every bottle containing ECA that people with thyroid conditions should not take this supplement. The warning list is long - everyone should be sure to read it.

Deaths that have been associated with this product are actually lower than those reported for people taking over the counter medications - including asprin. Most cases are the result of misuse and not heeding warnings.

Nat

Thanks Nat.. I will keep a close eye on these feelings.. They did decrease after I cut down to just one pill instead of two..But I still feel slightly on edge and just all around icky! No other probs that I can see..no racing heart or anything like that.. Just not feeling good..kinda quizzy and light headed.

FREE :wave:

Thanks Nat.

I read the warnings on the bottle. However, I was told by my pharmacist that everything should be okay as drugs that should hype me up do not have that effect. For instance, I can take all cold and allergy medicines with no difficulty. She said the warning is because some people react adversely to the stimulants.

In my case, the stack seemed to slow the metabolism, rather than speed it up. Unfortunately, I didn't figure this out or get any other information until after the second run. This was back when I still actually believed that what worked for you would work for me. I've since finally gotten it into my head that I am different and have to figure out what works best for me.

As for my friend, he was more than likely taking way more of the stack than would be advisable. For what it is worth, he had the stroke before the government began putting out warnings.

Now, back to my other questions...Wouldn't the caffeine in the stack cause an insulin spike? What supplements should people with a hypothyroid condition take?

Thanks.

I bought Ripped Fuel as I wasn't able to find any of your recomendations. When I get low on these, I'll go to some additional places to see if I can find the ones you mentioned.

I know the mileage varies, but any idea how soon results typically occur from taking an eca stack? I'm only taking two a day and the normal dosage is 6. Haven't noticed strong side effects. Just a bit more awake.

Thanks,

Mike

Has Dan or anyone tried L-arginine based products which build lean muscle and burn fat? They are natural as they normally contain a range of amino acids.

Cocoabear

I'm wondering if these "crutches" will have to be used indefinately. Will your motabilism suffer and slow down causing you to have to drastically cut calories or "balloon" back up with out the ECAs after long-term use?

Debbie Duh, that is an excellent question.. I have often heard that things of this nature do screw up your metabolism. Does anyone have a good answer to this question.

In light of my last post. It has been a week since I started ECA. My unwanted symptoms have tapered way down. I am still only taking half the recommended dose for beginners. I will gradually increase. I was also wondering how long before you see results. I know all are different. I personal story of success would be great. Haven't heard one yet.

FREE :wave:

Never take a thermogenic on the same day as a job interview. You sweat twice as much.

I was so embarrassed. :o

Originally posted by aztovaalex
What supplements should people with a hypothyroid condition take?

I'm not an expert, but I recently read Thin For Good by Fred Pescatore, former medical director for the Atkins Center. He recommended kelp (which you already know about) and magnesium for hypothyroidism.

Protein Power has this sentence buried on page 122 in discussion of rampant chromium deficiency (90% of the country is reported to be chromium-deficient):

"Sufficient chromium will help you build lean muscle pounds, and through interaction with the thyroid system, help you burn fat more efficiently."

That doesn't quite say "take chromium to improve thyroid function" but seems to suggest that chromium is required by the thyroid to burn fat.

Hope that's of some help.

Allison

I also question the effects of the caffein on insulin levels. Being fairly new to the Atkins/low carb theory, (having just scoured through the book) I'm sure that we were advised to stay away from caffein in all forms. Wouldn't this contradict the keotosis/fat burning (not glucose burning) that we're attempting to achieve? This is suppose to be a "healthy" way to live and eat and bring our levels into control. Don't get me wrong. I'd love some help, but I don't want to get confused. I'm having enough trouble staying away from cereals and fruits and would love a "quick fix".

I'd love any reasurrances!

LoL on the job thing.. I busted out laughing.

Debbieduh agian. I dido your question. That is a very good question and an answer would be great. It is a contradiction I think.. Anyone an expert on this subject??

FREE :read:

Originally posted by DebbieDuh
I also question the effects of the caffein on insulin levels. Being fairly new to the Atkins/low carb theory, (having just scoured through the book) I'm sure that we were advised to stay away from caffein in all forms. Wouldn't this contradict the keotosis/fat burning (not glucose burning) that we're attempting to achieve?

Just a note here guys, Atkins says "no caffiene" - this is not the case with all LC programs. Protein Power permits caffeine (and alcohol for that matter), as do many others.

Nat

Caffine and Alcohol? Wow, where do I fine those books?
Sorry to sound like a lush but those are my two draw backs to LCing. :p

My hubby's in a band so I am surrounded by alcies ..LOL and I miss my COFFEE!!! :D

Thanks Nat!
Oh tell me alittle more about some of the other programs..

Most of the plans available to you are discussed in detail under the link on the right of every page "Which low-carb plan is right for me?" Sample menus are included :)

Nat

I have been using Metab-O-Lite, which is one of the ephedra metabolism boosting products. I am using the Caffeine free formula, I bought that because I felt my diet coke habit was, about a six pack a day :daze: , was supplying all the caffeine I needed....Now I have cut back drastically on the diet coke, 2 in the last 3 days. I'm wondering if I should drink a little more diet coke (preferable of course), or get the Caffeine formula :q: I am losing weight and I feel the Metab-O-Lite is helping me keep from over eating at meals and not continually graze....In fact often I'm not even hungry at mealtime.......

Sonny

Originally posted by DebbieDuh
I'm wondering if these "crutches" will have to be used indefinately. Will your motabilism suffer and slow down causing you to have to drastically cut calories or "balloon" back up with out the ECAs after long-term use?

I'm still wondering about the dependency factor of these "helpers". Has anyone used one of these agents and been able to stop after reaching their goal or do you continue to use them to maintain.

As far as the caffein, wouldn't the adreleline rush of exercise give you the same kind (if not better and healthier) of boost and appetite suppresion?

Originally posted by Sonny
Now I have cut back drastically on the diet coke, 2 in the last 3 days. I'm wondering if I should drink a little more diet coke (preferable of course), or get the Caffeine formula
I doubt the source of the caffeine matters, but quantity does. I believe the standard ratio is 200 mg. caffeine to 20 mg. ephedrine. From what I've read, you really should not add any additional caffeine beyond that. Call the 800 number on the Coke can to ask how much is in that stuff. Less caffeine would be okay. Many thermogenic formulations are made with less caffeine. Please read the label of the bottle for warnings about excess caffeine. Remember, there really is some danger associated with these pills and you should be careful.

I am losing weight and I feel the Metab-O-Lite is helping me keep from over eating at meals and not continually graze....In fact often I'm not even hungry at mealtime.
Hey, if you're doing low-carb, you should be much more concerned about getting in your minimum protein grams and calories. Grazing is encouraged. If you don't eat enough calories you'll shut down your metabolism.

I'm still wondering about the dependency factor of these "helpers". Has anyone used one of these agents and been able to stop after reaching their goal or do you continue to use them to maintain.

I have hit my goal (until I change it again), and as long as you take the right approach when coming off the ECA stacks, you should be OK.

That is, just as you increased you dose when you first started until you hit a "normal dose", you should try to taper off ECA and ease yourself back into a less-dependant situation.

That's one way to do it, anyway.

Woohoo TrainerDan!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Congratulations on hitting your goal. I know you went down to a low percentage of body fat and I've always heard how hard those last few pounds are (can't say I've ever been there). Well done!

Allison

I've read a few of the posts regarding this product and so far I've seen only good postive responses. I was inclined to purchase this product on last week but I wasn't sure if it worked or not.

So my next question will be can you take that product and still be LCing? Also do you have to restrict what you eat and do a certain amount of exercise? Curious mind wants to know.

:roll:

You can take it while low carbbing ... You still have to watch what you eat, and you still have to do exercise.

Supplements (and this is a supplement) are just that: SUPPLEMENTS to your nutrition and training. Everything should be in order first before you consider using one.

Supplements are not "magic pills". They merely provide an edge.

If your nutrition plan is not 100% solid, and your training hasn't taken you as far as you can go ... then hold off on the fat loss supplements.

Follow your nutrition and training plans to the "T", and when your fat loss stalls out ... THEN turn to supplements such as Hydroxy, Xenadrine, etc.

Too many people use this type of supplement as a crutch. It should be a compliment to a sound, targeted fat loss plan.

Has anyone tried BurnXS supplement?

Never heard of/tried Burn XS ... who makes it, and what are the active ingrediens?

I just came across a product I never saw before ... Atomic Fusion. It contains ephedrine HCL, yohimbine, and caffeine.

FYI, Adipokinetix has been pulled from the market. The FDA finally found out that it contained PPA, which was banned earlier this year.

<sigh> They keep taking away all of my favorites ... :(

I read about Burn XS in the March issue of Women's Fitness. It says that it is time released but it doesn't list the ingredients. It also talk about a product named Carb Gaurd. They also sell Perfect fuel, meal replacment.it says 44% less carbs but less then what is the questions. probably to many for me.
I have been going to the gym every morning, this is the second week. I ride the bike or walk on the treadmill for 30 minutes and then lift weights for a hour. I feel better but is this the right idea?

What does the taking of epedrine have to do with thyroid disease? I would think this would be good for those of us with a thyroid condition?
Michele

Just a couple of questions -- I just finished 12 weeks of BFL and I did lose some inches, but still have a long way to go to lose fat. I quit smoking June 1, 2001, and am sure my metabolism is very slow. I read this thread yesterday and took my temp this morning -- it was 97.2, which is higher than I though it would be considering my normal daytime temp tends to be very low. I went shopping today and bought Metabo-O-Lite caffeine free formula because I do drink caffeine and thought it would be too much if I both took it in pill form and drank it.

However, when I opened the package and read the directions, they state that it should NOT be taken with caffeine because that could cause a heart attack! The ingredients are: 24 mg Ephedra Alkaloids from Ephedra (Ma-Huang) Extract, 'Propietary Blend' (1.05 g); bee pollen, Siberian Ginseng, Ginger, Soy Lecithin, Damiana, Sarsaparilla, Goldenseal, Nettles, Gotu Kola, Spirulina Algea, Royal Jelly

Why would I not be allowed to also take caffeine? Don't the other ECA stackers include both Ephedra and caffeine? I cannot take anything with aspirin because I'm allergic to it.

Should I buy something else? Or should I just use this with or without caffeine and buy something else when it's gone?

I recently purchased metabolite. It is suppose to be the same as"metabolife" with out the caffeine. From reading this post, I wonder if I purchased the wrong one. I have heard great success stories about products like this. I don't have a lot of weight to loose (10 lbs) I am on atkins & I have started working out. Will this product help me?

Here is the contents:

Ingredients
(per one tablet)

Serving Size: 1
Servings per Container: 90
Vitamin E 6 IU
Magnesium 75 mg
Zinc 5 mg
Chromium 75 mcg

Proprietary blend with
Ephedra (Ma Huang) Concentrate (12 mg naturally occuring ephedrines) and bee pollen, Siberian Ginseng, Ginger, Lecithin, Bovine Cartilage, Damiana< Sarsaparilla, Goldenseal, Nettles, Gotu Kola, Spirulina Algae, Royal Jelly
*Percentage daily values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.
**Daily Value not established

Thanks :wave:

It would seem that you should be able to take caffeine with that product. As you have said on your own, many of the other epedrine/herbal stacks contain a form of it.

And most of the studies show that when Ephedine and caffeine (or their herbal eqivilants) are combined, the effect is compounded greatly.

i don't know why they would make a caffeine-free formula. :confused: The current trend is making EPEDRA free formulas since "the ban" is supposed to be upon us soon.

Xenadrine just launched its ephedra free formula ... so if the major guys are doing it, something's up ...

Thanks for your help again! If the ephedra is soon to be banned, maybe I should stock up now. I hope that the ephedra will work for me -- if I lose weight any more slowly even the Turtle Club will disown me!

Hey Trainer Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Should I be useing caffeine with the metabolite in order to make it work? I'm very confused. Right now I have no caffeine in my diet.

Regards,

shae

Shae,

That's a personal decision, one I can't make for you.

Ephedrine will work on it's own, but when it is combined with caffeine (specifically at a ratio of 20mg ephedrine to 200mg caffeine) the fat loss results are much much greater.

Hi there;

I've joined the ranks of non-smokers as well, and I'm not sure we can get Ephedra here anymore. What I have is called Ultra Therma Burn, and it's made by Nutrition Zone Products Inc. Is this as effective as an Ephedra based product? The ingredients are ver batim from the label:

Therma charge blend 1100 mg
Synergistic Blend of the following:
Guarana (22% caffiene)
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Coleus Forskohli Extract (10% Forskolin)
Green Tea Extract (30% Polyphenols)
Gymnema Sylvestre Extract (25% Gymnemic Acid)
Citrus Aurantium 650 mg
(4% Synephrine)
White Willow Extract 80 mg
(15% Salicin)
Ginger Root 50 mg
Cayenne 50 mg

Do you think that this is at all worth taking if it has no Ephedra?

Your opinion would be most appreciated!

Thanks very much!

On the subject of thermogenics, I have found one I really, really like. Actually, I used to own a Metabolife store and lost quite a bit lowcarbing and using that, but I like this one better. It's called "Lowcarber's Miracle" and was developed by someone in Texas who has 10 years experience in nutraceuticals. He made it targeted specifically towards lowcarbers. I love it so much that I am thinking about buying into the company. :-) It's not widely available yet, but it soon will be. (I guess he has contacts all over the country with brokers and distributors, so look for it soon) It's great stuff.....
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

this guy has lots of info on eca stack based on his own experience and he has price comparisons!

http://www.drumlib.com/

I was going to post you a message in your journal, but it looks like you don't use it much. I, too, am an ex Suzanne Somers person, now doing Atkins. I would love to compare with you to see what made you switch? If you would like to chat, leave me a message in my journal (I haven't been there lately either, should go there next!) and we can swap war stories!

Cheers!

Hi everyone,
I have been using Slenderweigh which has the caffiene, ephedra combo in it for 3 years except 9 months of pregnancy. I occasionally take a break for a few weeks but I have found that it really has helped me lose weight. I don't find it to be like speed. There are 12 mg alkoloids of ephedra in it (3 x daily). The FDA is approving ephedra but only for 8 mg, 3x daily and recommends it not be combined with caffeine. I have researched the subject on the internet and there have been many scary stories of people dying from it, often taking caffiene and exercising a lot. It is scary but I don't know what percent it effects so negatively. I'm still taking it an hoping the horror stories are just a minute percent. That's my 2 cents. Lisa

Thanks to everyone who has contirbuted recently to this subject. Some very good posts.

I would like to know the name of the product that is being developed as a thermogen specifically aimed at LC. Pleas PM the info to me if need be ...

And for Dizzy ...

Do you think that this is at all worth taking if it has no Ephedra?

For a non-ephedra product, it has some good fat loss ingredients in it (caffeine, green tea, coleus ... they could leave out the white willlow though ...). Seems like it would be a good product to use ...

I am following the Atkins plan and have been for about 5 weeks. I have lost about 20lbs and have maintained my strength in the gym. I have a friend who is using Hydroxicut and having good weight loss results but is probably taking off too much weight too fast. His strength is suffering.
I would to know if there is anything that I should know about using Hydroxicut in conjunction with Atkins. Any ideas?

hi,

can i ask if thermogenics like hydroxycut (without the ephedra) can be taken for LONG TERM ??

instd of taking the full dosage, we take half (2 pills) dosage .... for long term instd of for 12 weeks as indicated ?

any advice ?

The thermogenic for lowcarbers is called Lowcarber's Miracle and should be available soon on all the lowcarb retail websites. They have a comparison chart showing why it's better than the others for people lowcarbing, but I believe their website is under construction. You might check with Carbsmart, or one of the other big retail sites to see if they carry it yet.
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

http://www.drumlib.com

i have posted it b4. but i'll post it again. it has lots of useful info on ephedra from a guy who's been using it for several years.
and a price comaprison page.

and its cheappppp and its in the form of ephedrine hcl.....

but i dont want to post the link here because i dont wnat to advertise for the site. please msg me if you want the link

You may want to watch out for ripped fuel, diet fuel, etc.. I know because I was an avid user of these products some years ago. I started to sweat profusely from taking them (this was not only embaressing, but very harmful to my health) I also had an erratic heartbeat. The other thing I have learned about these is that they are harmful if not used correctly. They are meant to be used by someone who exercises. If you do not exercise taking a product that speeds up your system and not exerting that energy can have drastic effects on your heart. Try exercise. I have worked out for 7 years now and it is the best thing anyone can do for themselves

HTH

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, it's true that thermogenics should be used carefully. I've lost over 100 pounds using them. I worked out most of the time that I've been losing. I like the Lowcarber's Miracle the best out of all the ones I've tried. It doesn't make me feel crazy like Ripped Fuel did, and it KILLS my appetite completely. On the bottle it says "Willpower in a PILL" and they ain't lyin!!! <grin> It helps me get through my workouts, especially here in Texas when it starts to get hot, Julee starts to get lazy. ha ha ha ha Right now it's only available in Texas but soon all the big online retailers should have it....Carbsmart, Netrition, Lowcarb Grocery, etc etc etc. Do be careful with whatever thermogenic you use. They are excellent when used as directed!
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

Thanks for the info Silence, Jennifer, and Flaxie.

It's good to get people's experiences, as well as resources in this thread.

Keep it comin' everyone! :cool:

Sorry,
I wanted to post this in the thermogenics thread :confused:
I don't know how to move it there!!!

Drumlib.com recommends Norexin, it has less ephedera and less caffeine. Also its caffeine source is from green tea.

I've been reading these threads for a while.

:q: My question is. Suppose one looses a lot of weight and bodyfat with the help of thermogenics;
A day will come where this person stops using them.
What happens to the metabolism then? Is it gonna be like a person who exercises and suddenly stops, and start storing bodyfat?

I ordered this Norexin from Netrition, I have been shedding a lot of fat following the PP. Just want to make sure how our bodies react to these supplement.
Are they like Advil or antibiotics? They help us out, but after a while our bodies get used to them and they will work no more?

Thank You

Loony, I am sure Dan will better be able to answer this for you, but in the interim I can tell you that most of these supplements are intended to help you for a little while - they should be cycled. Taking a thermogenic to help you lose fat will only work for so long. Once you body adapts you need to change things around, trick it so to speak. The same principle applies to dieting/caloric intake; after a while at X many calories things just don't work like they used to. Cycling your calories and changing the proprotions of P/F/C can help to trick it back into fat loss.

Nat

I actually have been opting not to take any thermogenics because I'm only 33 and can't imagine taking something like that for the rest of my life.

I'll wait to hear what Dan has to say about that!

Thermogenics are just a supplement. They are something that you can use as an added boost to further fat loss.

Ideally, they should be used to break a stall, or as part of a well planned out process to keep activating your body's metabolism.

If you stay on thermogens for too long, your body will adapt. Then, you will have the issue of stimulant/caffeine dependency to deal with.

For some people, the benefits outweigh the risks, so they do it. Some studies show that the longer you stay on thermogens (E/C specifically), the better the results.

As for what happens when you come off of thermogenics, well, I usually get an energy crash that doesn't normalize for about a week or so. Metabolically, I don't seem to add on fat when I come off of thermogens.

However, I make sure that when I come off of thermogens that I am also keeping a tight watch on calories. I sometimes start on a thyroid booster after stopping thermogens, just to ensure against any gain. Thyrolean works well for me, since it has guggulsterone as well as phosphates.

In my own opinion, I don't think anyone should be dependant on any thermogenic product. They should be used short-term as an addition to a sound and strict nutrition and exercise plan. If the nutrition and exercise are missing, I always advise to get everything else togther BEFORE adding thermogens to the mix.

I think they are great, and I do use them myself as part of a comprehensive plan for continued fat loss ...

BUT, also included in that plan are adjustments in diet (manipulation of macronutrients), thyroid supplements, yohimbine use, weekly increases on exercise intensity (weights and cardio), and finally, reduction in calories.

Thermogens are a tool to be used in fat loss, but they are not the only tool in the shed. And they shouldn't be the first thing anyone reaches for. There is no magic pill.

Thanks so much for answering that Dan. I really appreciate your presence here, you have no idea!

If I've done the temperature test to check my thyroid, and find it to be slow, what would you recommend as a product to boost that? Is the one that you mention in the previous post designed for men, or can women take it? Is there a difference for men and women? Any suggestions? (Other than seeing my Dr., who I seriously believe is a full-blown QUACK!) :rolleyes:

Thanks again!

Thyrolean can be used by women ... There are many other similar products. Look for a combination of guggulsterones and phosphates. These both have a positive effect on your thyroid.

There are stronger methods to kick things up too, but you should start there. No need to go taking supplements that contain active thyroid hormone (if such products are even still available) ...

Thanks so much for your advice. I'll be heading to the local health food store tomorrow!!

You rock!

It is my second day using this thermogenic "Norexin".
I am still on the 1 pill dose.

Now I don't know if it is Norexin, the slight carb increase, or the supersets introduction! But I can see the abs begining to pop up :) - and the love handles melting away quickly :) really awsome!

It is nice to hear from 'Dan' that whenever you quit using thermogenics your metabolism doesn't really slow down and you gain fat.

So happy with LC.
I got my friend hooked up with it (He is loosing fat like a snowman in the sun)
So happy to be a member of this great forum, speaking the truth, and linking to usefull resources. (like Nat's links ;))

Dan, when you say "short term" do you mean a full 120 capsules or less?

Thanks again to all of you

Loony :wave:

Hi I was just reading the threads on fatburners and thermogenics.I find they do help when taken before a workout. :rolleyes: But I havent taken them since starting the Atins diet because Im afraid that they will raise my insulin or glucose levels due to the caffiene and other ingredients.

:idea: Does anyone know if these products like hydrocycut or even thermoslim will throw you out of ketosis :q:

Thanx for any suggestions. ;)

Dan, when you say "short term" do you mean a full 120 capsules or less?

Depending on your dosage, I suppose. I generally advise people to only stay on 8 to 12 weeks at a time ... but every personis different.

I find that physical dependency is greatly diminished when I follow a 5 on - 2 off schedule for the 12 weeks (5 days on, 2 days off). It also fits better in my plan (CKD), since weekends are dedicated to glycogen storage.

Hello, the discussion here seems to be talking about ECA stacks, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with thyroid "boosters," such as something with guggulsterones and there is also another product called tricuts II. They *seem* from what little I've read, to be an alternative to an ECA stack, one that would not keep you up at night.
Any help/information would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Meg

So, Dan, I have established that due to being a complete nutcase, and being treated for it (prozac), I shouldn't take an ephedra based product... BUT... is there any alternative I CAN take? ANy recomendations? I can order off the net... Maybe a Thyroid type helper (like hamburger helper, hee hee heee!)? Other kinds of fat burners?...... do you think green tea really works? I have next to NO metabolism due to years of anorexia, and then yo-yoing hundreds of lbs back and forth. I don't weigh a whole lot now, but I have a really scary percentage of fat, much more than some 6ft something obese men I have read about! and I am only 5 ft 4.
Sorry to rant, thanks so much. I CANNOT WAIT FOR YOUR BOOK TO ARRIVE!
Doods.

Hey doods!

There are alot of new ephedra-free products being released now that I have heard good things about ... The best marketed one being Xenadrine EFX (not the same as the ephedra-based Xenadrine RFA).

I also take a product called Lean Out (by Beverly Nutritionals) 4x per day, after whole food meals and 30 mins. before my workout ... it is supposed to be good, but I am also taking ephedra products and doing a bunch of things to enhance fat loss right now, so I can't be sure if the Lean Out is doing the job.

As far as thyroid boosters go, try Thyrolean or Guggulbolic. They are good products.

The book will tell you step by step on how to go about using diet and supplements in the right order to keep the metabolism up. When you get to the ephedra based part of the plan, use Xenadrine EFX ...

Looks like I have to get Version 2.0 of the book together to include non-ephedra strategies within my plan ... :daze:

Dan,
My company is coming out with an ephedra free product soon, as well. My partner is the one who knows all about these formulas, but in your opinion are there any other herbs to include or leave out, if you had your d'ruthers? We are leaving in the guarana, but taking out the ephedrine. I've not had any problems with epherdrine myself, even after many years of using it off and on, but I know some people do. Do you think the government is going to outlaw epherdrine based products all together?

Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

Thanks fot that info Dan.
Do you think that flax oil REALLY helps us to burn fat?
Doods. :)

flaxie , I have a few ideas about an ephedra free product which I will share here later (on my way to bed), but what REALLY is missing from the market is a COMPLETE thyroid support formula ... combining guggul, phosphates, kelp, and all of the other thyroid support nutrients. If it's out there, it's hiding ... LOL.

doods , yes, flax oil does help with fat loss, albiet in an indirect manner. It's not thermogenic, so you may not "feel" it, but flax (actually the Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids) are supportive in controlling the body's thermostat/metabolism according to D.O. Rudin in the book "The Omega-3 Phenomenon".

OOPS! I didn't notice that Fern was still signed in when I sat down at the computer, so I posted as her by mistake in the reply to flaxie and doods. LOL. Sorry about that.

Ya know, I wonder about coconut oil, too....I swear the more I use the faster I lose. And it helps with energy, as well. I would be interested in hearing more about the thyroid support supplement....I wonder why nobody has come out with something comprehensive in that arena. Hmmm....
What's exciting is that there is so much opportunity in this industry....I think we have barely scratched the surface of what nutracueticals (spelling?) can do. Thanks for giving your input on this topic, it's very interesting.
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

Originally posted by Trainerdan
OOPS! I didn't notice that Fern was still signed in when I sat down at the computer, so I posted as her by mistake in the reply to flaxie and doods. LOL. Sorry about that.

I was about to write and say thanks to Fern for replying to my question... :) . I think I will thank her anyway for all the information I have gained from reading what she HAS written...
Dan, stop stealing Fern's identity. ;)
And Thank YOU too!
Doods :wave:

LOL Doods..... yep, I was in bed totally unaware that someone was trying to steal my identity! :)

I am taking 1000 mg of Glucophage at night. Is anyone here taking both Metabolift and Glucophage?

Does anyone know of any contraindications?

It seems to me that the caffeine and ephedra are going to be things you could encounter in your diet anyway.

Thanks in advance,
Dee

Now how do we know that was really you??? :lol:

Pineslayer ... Diabetics are contraindicated from taking ephedra based products. Most ephedra products carry a warning label that reads something like this:

"Consult a physician if you have any of the following conditions before using this product: heart disease, pregnant/nursing, high blood pressure, thyroid disease, kidney disease, diabetes, prostate enlargement, depression, or have any medical problem that requires taking medication. DO NOT USE IF YOU HAVE ASTHMA."

The reason for diabetics is the sudden change in blood suagr levels that may occur when using an ephedra-based product.

Play at your own risk!

Dan,

Thanks for replying.

I seached the internet for 'ephedra caffeine diabetes' All I could find was warning against, but not why. :confused: Being an inquisitive sort of person, possibly a masochist ;), and able to monitor my blood glucose levels, I am going to see what it actually does.

In a post dated Feb-23-02, titled ok... in this thread, you said:
As for generics, the old tried and true is to take 20 mg of ephedrine hydrochloride, 200mg caffeine, and (if you want) 81 to 200mg aspirin.

The brand I already have (it's several years old, but there's no expiration date on it) is Metabolift (Mahuang Extract 334 mg; Guarana Extract 910 mg; Chromium Picolinate 200 mcg). It contains White Willow Bark Extract, not aspirin.

:q: Should I add 1/2 of a 325 gr aspirin tablet with each dose? Or was recommendation per day? Or is the White Willow Bark Extract sufficient? I'm starting with 1 Metabolift before breakfast and lunch.

I'll track my bg, see what it does, and post it in my journal, :q: unless people would like to see it here? :q:

:q: My normal body temp is between 96 and 97, so I want to get some ThyroLean. I couldn't find it at my health food store yesterday, so I will order it from www.VitaminShoppe.com.

Again, thank your for your time and caring.

Hi Everyone,

I have been taking a thermogenic for the last 2 1/2 weeks. I have also been working out at least 5 hrs a week & am following pp. I weigh 127 & would like to loose 5 lbs. My question is : do thermogenics work for everyone? It dosent seem to be working for me. I was wondering if it has anything to do with the caffeine. Before taking the thermogenic, I had no caffeine in my diet. I heard that caffeine can stop weight lose. Or is it because I have only 5 lbs to loose & it takes longer? I have read up on therogenics & the one I am taking seems to have all the "right stuff" in it.

Thanks shae

This is not an answer, but in relation to your question I have tried thermogenics four different times (different brands) and while they certainly gave me an energy high, I did not experience ANY weight loss... maybe it is an individual thing, maybe my body does not like caffeine. (well I know it doesn't)
I am about to try (it should arrive in the mail tomorrow) Guggulbolic, or something with a similar name. I am hoping it will help with these last few pounds that exercise does not want to touch.
Good luck!
Meg

White willow bark = aspirin

Hey MEG S

Thanks for the response. Let us know if Guggulbolic works!

shae

Based on the past two days, Metabolift seems to be okay for me, but Thyrolean raises my blood sugar, gives me a headache, and generates huge carb cravings.
if you're interested in the details, see page 2 of my journal.

I'm still experimenting, it's too early to have a definitive answer yet.

Hi all,


I am confused....... :confused:

Your talking about thermogenics. Is this taking products like Metabolife or Dexatrim etc. If you are on the Atkins Diet and also using Protein Powder, why would you want to also take those pills. Arent you doing to much to your body at once. May sound like a crazy question but?????

I took metabolife for awhile before starting Atkins and I didnt care for it. Yes it gave me more energy but it also made me chittery and also didnt see much result.

If anyone could enlighten me I would appreciate it.


Pam :wave:

I am on Atkins and just started taking thermogenics. The reason is that my metabolism is so messed up from a combination of years of not eating enough calories and also from stopping smoking. I stall for very long periods of time, then tend to lose a couple of pounds only to regain them a few days later. My body temperature is very low -- between 96 and 97, confirming that my metabolism is messed up.

I am hoping the thermogenics will boost my metabolism and get the weight loss going.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Your subject here interest me but I am lost.

What book are we talking about ? Can you spell out what we should be taking exactly? Or better yet what are you taking exactly and what is your current condition? (lost all your wait and this is maintenance or in the middle of loosing weight).


Now that 20 questions is over. I am looking for something to help speed up the weight loss. Is this what Iam looking for?

:bhug:
Pam

Hi Pam,

Sorry I'm confused too.... Are you talking about my post "Hi Everyone"?

shae

Yes Shae,

You were talking about thermogenic products. Also Trainerdan
was too. I just trying to get all this info and see what to do next. Be confused with me :D

Pammysue

Hey Pam

The info I read on thermogenics is from this web site:
drumlib.com It has lots of info on different products.
As far as far as my current condition, I am finding as I'm getting older (40) & already perimenopausal, that 5 lbs I always meant to get rid of is now 10lbs. I've been following atkins & pp but seem to be stuck. Hopeing this will help. Seems thermogenics have helped some people.

shae :D

Originally posted by dizzyd
Now how do we know that was really you??? :lol:

Too funny!
Maybe Dan was trying to confuse everyone! LOL Really me now.... Dan is at work at this time! :)

I am new to the forum but started lc-ing in July. From the information in this thread I started taking Hydroxycut in March. All I can say is I lost 11 pounds in one month. I recently stopped for two weeks and started taking Thyrolean. I have since lost another 5 pounds. I am eating the same amount, probably more. I have tried to follow TrainerDan's advice to the letter (thanks by the way) and it works!! Since March 3 people at my gym have said that they have noticed a big difference in my muscle tone, including my instructor. I just thought I would share this with anyone who is considering thermogenics but not sure about taking them. They did work for me, but that is not necessarily the case for everyone. Thank you everyone for the great advice in this forum. :D

I just wanted to say thanks all for the helpful tips in this thread.

I was taking diet fuel and getting great results but was talked into trying Xenadrine by the GNC clerk. I understand it's relatively the same product but I hated it! Maybe it's psychological, who knows.

Instead I stopped taking it and couldn't afford Diet Fuel again at the time. Those little jars are expensive!!! :p

Now I had started taking Hydroxycut. 4 weeks into it in fact. But it's almost like something is telling me not to take it. I've ordered it online twice. Once they were out of stock and the second company took our money and we've not heard from them since. They're still online by the way, nathigh.com. They're 800# and fax numbers are out of our area and they don't reply to emails.

So I resorted to buying it at Walmart, but they are *always* out. Friday the clerk said it would be in Saturday, but even today... no Hydroxycut.

So, utterly frustrated, I switched back to Diet Fuel today.

Is there a huge difference that anyone knows about? Is there some secret reason that Walmart always has Diet Fuel and never Hydroxycut?

TIA!!

Shelley :)

Dan... I'm hoping for some feedback from you on this, and I now have a question due to one of your comments in an earlier posting in this thread... but first my question.

I'm currently taking Ultimate Diet Fuel, but I'm about to switch to a product called Nytro Burn by Sports Science Research, as far as I can tell the active ingredient of each of these products is different from the other, so I'm wondering if I should allow for a "weaning" period between switching or is just going from one to the other okay?

Though now to be honest I'm a tad concerned about this new product as it contains PPA - and I read your post that said the FDA has banned PPA; could you provide more information on that. I was under the impression that this Nytro Burn product was fairly new so I'm wondering how they get away with having PPA in it.

This is the info off the label:
L-Tyrosine 500 mg
Guggul Herb Extract 250 mg
Calcium Phosphate 1074 mg
Potassium Phosphate 214 mg
Sodium Phosphate 50 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 200 mg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) 100 mg
PPA (L-Norephedrine) 25 mg
D-Pinitol 25 mg
Bioperine 5 mg

Thanks in advance for your feedback, I really appreciate it.

Hi,

I'm starting myself on CLA. From what I've read, sounds like a wonder supplement !!

Am also reading 'The fat flush plan' by Ann Louise Gittleman.
Sounds like a great diet.
Any comments ??

Cheers :)

Shelxland ... Sorry to hear about the rough experiences your are having getting Hydroxy. If you look at the labels, the two products are pretty close to being the same, Hydroxy having a few more bells and whistles. The reason Wal-Mart must be out of Hydroxy all the time is probably due to MuscleTech's outrageous ad campaign for Hydroxy (in magazines, and now on TV too). They make some pretty outrageous claims for it.

Allstarhealth.com had Xenadrine for $23.00 US today, Muscledepot.com has Hydroxycut (140 capsules) for $25.99 today and they are reliable ... they also have Diet Fuel (180 caps) for $22.99.

I think Diet Fuel is a better product anyway, due to the green tea.

Elizz ... CONGRATULATIONS! :cheer: Those are great results! I am glad that everything is working for you. Keep us posted, and thanks for the positive feedback.

Unsweetnd ... Wow. That looks like a great product. They must be a small company who is "under the radar" of the FDA for now. I'm gonna see about getting me some of that ... LOL ... Thanks for the tip. It has a good combo of thryroid support along with nor-ephedrine (PPA) and ALA. Nice to use after your body has adapted to a standard E/C stack. The stuff's a little pricey though ($45 per bottle!?!)

Chloep ... CLA is a great product. Studies indicated a dose of 4 - 5 grams per day is effective in fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. As you can see, this could get expensive. I am currently taking it, and I am getting leaner. I also think it is helping with increasing muscle, but I am also taking so many things right now it is hard to tell what is working and what isn't. LOL.

As for the fat flush plan, I am sorry but I am unfamiliar with it. I believe that there is a thread about it elsewhere on the forums here ...

will Metaboloss or other similiar weight-loss pills affect ketosis? if so, in a positive or negative way??!

Thanks Dan,

Great to get your feedback... I don't know if it was a fluke, but I got a bottle for $25 CDN (after buying one previously for $60 at GNC "under the counter"). If you'd like the 1-800 # for the company I bought it from you can email me for it.

TrainerDan,

I wanted to know if I need to increase weightlifting when I go off of the Thyrolean for the 2 week period. Also, do I need to restrict carbs even more during this period since I am not getting the thermogenic "burn" anymore? Any information would be greatly appreciate - you have already been extremely helpful! :)

This is a bit off the subject, but I wanted to know how to increase muscle definition in my shoulders specifically. I am supersetting now three times a week - doing front lateral raises, side raises, and shoulder press w/ 10lb. free weights. I do this very quickly w/ only a few seconds of rest between reps (I do 4 sets of 10 reps for each exercise). I have definition but would like more.

Again, any advice would be great! Thank you!

Hi. I just wanted to pop in and say that I have been taking the ephedra free xenadrine and I am not jittery etc.I had tried the ephedra version and only lasted two days on it because it made me very aggresive I took it once after that to check & see if the mood thing was a flukeand I had the same results.
I really like the xenedrine efx. I t has green tea too.
It seems to have jump started my weight loss,so I'm a fan.


thanks-
heathbme

:daze:
Sorry, I wanted to let schoolnigh know that using thermogenics with caffiene hasn't knocked me out of ketosis!

heathbme

So Dan, after doing much reading of these posts... I ordered some thyrolean and some xenadrine EFX. They arrived today.. Is it ok to take them together? they shouldn't affect my precariously balanced menatal state... should they? ;) thanks Dan...
Doods.

Dear Dan,

Seems your the man to ask the questions to. Can I ask you
for a little advice? :confused:

I have been on the Atkins Diet for 2 months, lost 18 pds, about
10 inches. I am taking the the Adkins Formula # 3 (mutli/vitamin with minerals) Atkins essential oils. I started taking Colostrum and I would like to get on a fat burner. I hear you talking about Xenadrine EFX and Hydroxycut and Thyrolean. Are they all fat burners and can they all be taken together. I also have a slight problem with an enlarged thyroid. Will these products bother that at all?

Hope you can help me or someone can. Any advise will be deeply appreciated.

Pam :wave:

Okay... day 2 of the switch to Diet Fuel and all seems to have transferred well.

I do have a green tea question and didn't know whether to include it in this category or not since it's *in* the diet fuel...

Green tea, whether taken in a supplement or a drink, always seems to make my sinuses a little raw feeling (you know like after you've been swimming in chlorinated water). Does it do this to anyone else? Is it a regular side effect of green tea or could it be an allergy?

My typical reaction to everything I am allergic to is hives on my face and chest. No hives with green tea, just sinus issues.

Any ideas??

Thanks!

DOODS ... I believe you can take them together, BUT if you read chapter 1 of that great book you just got, you will see a better way to do it and make use of both products when the time is right .... ;)

Heathbme ... Thanks for clearing up the thermogenic/ketosis issue. I don't measure with Stix anymore, but I know the "ketobreath" and "ketostank" are more enhanced when I am on LC and thermogenics, which would suggest that they don't. But, you called it. Thanks.

PammySue ... The enlarged thyroid concerns me, and I think an ephedrine based product may be a no-go. However, ephedrine-free formulas may be the thing for you, and Thyrolean or Guggulbolic should be OK for you ...

Shelxland ... Never had or heard of that experience with green tea. The Diet Fuel gives you this reaction, that's odd. I wonder if anyone else here has that same reaction ???

Not just the Diet Fuel, any green tea. I have a friend who brought me some tea back from a trip to Japan. I love the taste and know that there are some wonderful health benefits linked to green tea. But drinking the tea has this same effect on me.

My herbalist has never heard of it before either but suspects it has more to do with somehow needing the tea rather than being allergic. She was going to ask around and get back to me today too.

:q:

There are too many threads to go through right now... and I'm REALLY TIRED.... so, I'm wondering if you know if there is a relationship between taking Metabolite and fatigue. It seems I've been really tired since I started taking them. I only take one 1-hour before a meal. I do get a little hyper for awhile, however, there seems to be a crash after about 1 hour.

Is this just a coincidence? I also have hay fever and I know that makes me tired too.

Thx....

Hi...
I own a supplement company that has a popular thermogenic. I would never have believed this was possible (getting tired when taking them) until my cousin had the exact same response as what you're saying. (not with my diet pill, but a similar brand) Turns out she has A.D.D. and the stimulants in the diet pill were calming her down. WAYYYYY down. LOL
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

and just started reading this thread and am interested in taking a stack of some kind. i have a borderline thyroid, (hypo) not treated by meds. makes weight loss sluggish. i have a generic hydroxycut-like supplement at home and want to know if that's ok. and i bought trainerdans book and wondered if the answers to the above questions are in it or somewhere on the board.

i work out 5 days a week at curves for women and walk 2 miles each morning.

brianna

ummm, what do the little egg cup things mean by our posts?

brianna

about Lowcarber's Miracle!!!

brianna

Hi there;

Three things: First and most importantly, welcome to the boards! You will be so amazed at the amount of support you find here. I have been so blessed by the people here, and you will be too!

http://jabot2000.homestead.com/files/emoticons/thup.gif

Second, you should post the ingredients list on your supplement if you want an opinion on it. That will make it easier for Dan or anyone else to offer any suggestions.

Third, the egg cups are a measure system which indicates how many times you have posted on the boards. You'll notice that some people have eggs, some have chicken legs, some have steaks, and so on. If you click on the eggs, a window will come up that will tell you how many posts are which icons.

So, that's it for now. I look forward to seeing you around the boards!

http://jabot2000.homestead.com/files/emoticons/surfin.gif

Hi there! I posted a couple of weeks ago asking about guggulsterones, and thought I would mention my progress so far.

I've been taking them for two weeks in conjunction with a product called TriCutsII, which has ephedra in it, and weightlifting.
So far no changes.. have not been using fat calipers only measuring tape/scale/noticing how clothes fit.
I don't feel the expected effects either - which is supposed to be a noticable rise in body temperature.

It is funny that the topic of ephedra making people feel sluggish has come up - because the major drop in energy the only side effect I have noticed while taking this stack.

What do you think? I do not consume caffeine for personal health reasons.. should I be adding it to my diet to lose fat? Should the ephedrine be dropped because it is making me tired instead of energetic - or does that have nothing to do with the actual fat loss?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Meg

Hey Dan, I gotta question..or anyone else who might know :confused: I've read pretty much every reply and a few ppl mentioned thyroid but I'm still confused..

I had my thyroid removed, am on medication for it.. considered "hypo" but my doctor said my levels are normal and so my thyroid is normal.. Um ok.. Anyways, because of this, and years of yo-yoing and starving myself.. I have a dead metabolism..Is there anything I can take to help and give me a boost?

I tried metabolite for a week before, I didn't have any problems with it. I asked my doctor and pharmacist about being hypo and taking drugs like Xenadrine, metabolite ect.. And they just said they don't approve of diet drugs/boosters and said it was up to me if I want to take them..so.. :confused: Its funny though because they approve that more then Atkins. :rolleyes:

And about caffeine, I used to be addicted to Coke! Yes the soda!! Most people need coffee when they wake up, I'd need coke..lol And it used to make me gain weight.. So would a product with caffeine in it make me gain weight? I don't think it would if I'm still drinking enough water.. :confused:

Not meaning to offend any doctors out there, but form my talks with a few doctors of my clients, they had no clue when I was talking to them about T3/T4 uptake, and many other metabolic processes that can be accelerated/manipulated by diet and supplements.

Granted, these were all family practice doctors, not endocinologosts, but still to say "diet boosters are bad" and not do full research makes me doubt the opinions given by those who are not specialists, or have a special interest in the field.

So, LOL, you can see that I don't have a doctor. LOL. I am looking for one in my area that is either a fitness-minded person, or has studied this sort of field.

ANYWAY, that's my little rant. I have a hard time taking exercise advice/diet advice from an overweight middle-aged man who is clearly not the picture of health (my last 3 doctors).

One actually told me to stop lifting weights! It went like this:

Doc: "So Dan, do you workout?"
Me: "Yes, I am a personal trainer, as it says on that form I had to fill out for you. I workout, yes."
Doc: "Hmmm ... Looking at your chart, it says you had a heart murmur when you were younger. Lifting weights may be bad for you."
Me: "What was that?"
Doc:"Yes. Lifting weights causes a great overexertion on your heart, and it may cause problems for you."
Me: "A murmur from when I was 16 will cause problems for me now?"
Dr: "It might, you never know. It may reoccur. To be safe, I would suggest you stop lifting weights."
Me: "Hmmm. How about running, can I run?"
Dr: "Just don't push yourself too hard."
Me: "Define that."
Dr: "Some light jogging is OK, but don't go too hard."

You can see where that goes ... LOL ... It got ugly, and I left. When I compete next year, I'm gonna send him a picture. When I break 300 pounds on my bench, I'm gonna send him a pic of that too.

SO, LOL, back to the questions ...

SLIM: I personally don't see how caffeine would make weight loss sluggish or cause weight gain. The 35g of sugar in each can of Coke, however, I can see how that will cause a fat gain. :p

Brianna: The answers are in Chapter 1. LOL. It covers it all, and then some.

Meg: Ephedra by itself gave only marginal results in studies. It is the combo of Ephedra and Caffeine that was the breakthrough. But, if you have health reasons for not taking caffeine, then I would say not to take it.

Originally posted by Trainerdan
SLIM: I personally don't see how caffeine would make weight loss sluggish or cause weight gain. The 35g of sugar in each can of Coke, however, I can see how that will cause a fat gain. :p


LoL hmm 35g per can, and I'd drink about 4 or 5..Yep guess that could deffinetly be the reason why.. :o

Anyways one more Question.. Do you have any suggestions as to what product I should try to boost my metabolism..

I'm a lil lost when it comes to this stuff lol =X :roll:

When I first started taking thermogenics, I started with Diet Fuel.

Read the label, and start with 1 pill when you take it.

What is your body temperature first thing in the AM?... as soon as you wake up, I mean.

There are a bunch of product out there. The ephedra-based ones are more popular.

If you are using an ephedra-based one, you could try Beta-Lean by E