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  #46   ^
Old Tue, Feb-21-06, 14:34
skeeweeaka's Avatar
skeeweeaka skeeweeaka is offline
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Posts: 2,154
 
Plan: Moderate Carb...
Stats: 235/195/140 Female 5'3
BF:HELP!!!
Progress: 42%
Location: Ohio
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That's interesting, I am currently trying to help my mother get her blood pressure down...perhaps Potassium would help...

THANKS!
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  #47   ^
Old Sat, Jan-13-07, 20:28
capo capo is offline
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Posts: 518
 
Plan: -
Stats: -/-/- Female -
BF:
Progress: 100%
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I'm 18 years old, female, and you wouldn't know it by looking at my lipid profile, but my family has a high triglyceride issue:

Lipid profile(02/21/2006):
CHOLESTEROL: 151
TRIGLYCERIDE: 89
HDL: 45
LDL: 88

Lipid profile(03/10/2006):
CHOLESTEROL: 146
TRIGLYCERIDE: 100
HDL: 49
LDL: 85
VLDL: 20

This is my latest lipid profile(08/10/2006):

CHOLESTEROL: 265
TRIGLYCERIDE: 31
HDL: 84
LDL: 191
VLDL: 6

I'm pretty happy for the results. My total cholesterol is high, but I'm not worried at all.
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 18:10
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capo
I'm 18 years old, female, and you wouldn't know it by looking at my lipid profile,
I'm pretty happy for the results. My total cholesterol is high, but I'm not worried at all.

Capo,
Why should you be worried? You are 18 years old female!!!!!!!You have plenty of estrogen to keep your artheries smooth and flexible, so if there is any cholesterol plaque, they will expend to accomodate it. Your high level of estrogen is indeed protective of heart desease at this age, but the picture is different for menopausal and post-menop women who lost their estrogen-protective quality. The artheries no longer are smooth and flexible, and no longer they expand to let blood flow freely. Existing plaque starts to harden and artheries start to constrict in response to estrogen drop. Here is when high LDL may become a problem. BTW, TGR <150 is normal, only 1/5 of TGR are part of the cholesterol calculation. LDL is hard to keep low on high fat diet. LDL around 200 may be fine for you, but I won't be happy with high LDL at my age.
ETA: I have calaculated your total to HDL ratio for all 3 lab results, which I rounded to one SF:
1) 3.3
2) 3.0
3) 3.2
AS you can see the ratio is the same, actually your previous test shows a little lower CHo/HDL ratio that your last one.
PPl get ecstatic when their HDL goes up on LC diet, but they forget that both HDL and LDL rise proportionally and in many cases, LDL raises disproportionally while HDL is not much so.
I see same trend with my CHO, the more sat.fat I eat, the higher is LDL and total and HDL raises 10-15 % too, but not enough to give me better ratio. It does have a lot to do with my age and dropping estrogen indeed but in general older folks IMO need to be carefull.
JMO

Last edited by dina1957 : Tue, Feb-27-07 at 13:07. Reason: ETA
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  #49   ^
Old Wed, Feb-28-07, 19:49
capo capo is offline
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Wow, thanks dina1957 for all your input! I was under the impression that high cholesterol is good at any age and that total cholesterol or LDL cholesterol do not cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, or any other diseases for that matter.

You may or may not be familiar with Weston A. Price:
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernd...ts_cholest.html
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  #50   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 05:19
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Weston price foundation says:
Quote:
They studied healthy young and middle-aged men and found that the total number of white blood cells and the number of various types of white blood cells were significantly lower in the men with LDL-cholesterol below 160 mg/dl (mean 88.3 mg/l),than in men with LDL-cholesterol above 160 mg/l (mean 185.5 mg/l).18


Lower white blood count correlates significantly with lower risk of heart disease and lower all cause mortality, especially cancer. Why would he leave that out of the article

White Blood Cell Count and Risk for All-Cause, Cardiovascular, and Cancer Mortality in a Cohort of Koreans
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...62/11/1062?etoc

These findings indicate that the white blood cell count is an independent risk factor for all-cause mortality and for CVD mortality.


White blood cell levels are a good predictor of strokes, heart attacks, and fatal heart disease in older women, according to a nationwide study

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/...whitecells.html

WBC Count and the Risk of Cancer Mortality in a National Sample of U.S. Adults: Results from the Second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey Mortality Study
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/13/6/1052

WBC remained significantly associated (P trend = 0.03) with total cancer mortality [highest versus lowest quartile (RR 1.66; 95% CI, 1.08-2.56)]. In stratified analyses, increased WBC was associated with higher risk of non-lung cancer (P trend = 0.04), but not lung cancer (P trend = 0.18). Among never smokers, a 1 SD increase in WBC (2.2 x 109 cells/L) was associated with greater risk of total (RR 1.32; 95% CI, 1.05-1.67) and non-lung (RR 1.30; 95% CI, 1.03-1.63) cancer mortality. These findings support the hypothesis that inflammation is an independent risk factor for cancer mortality. Additional studies are needed to determine whether circulating levels of inflammatory markers are associated with increased risk of incident cancer.

There are many many more showing the same thing.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and don't believe the first thing you see just because its from weston price foundation.

WPf says:
Quote:
men whose cholesterol was lower than 160 and who had died from AIDS was four times higher than the number of men who had died from AIDS with a cholesterol above 240


This tells doesn't tell us that by eating lots of fat and cholesterol they will decrease their risk of dying. it only points to the progression of the disease. There are many diseases, including AIDS and Cancer where cholesterol will drop over time as the disease advances. it does not mean that by adding butter you will increase your cholesterol therefor reduce the risk of death.

WPF says:
Quote:
People with high cholesterol live the longest


BULL. The longest lived women in the world in okinawa have cholesterol of around 150mg/dl. Maybe he should rephrase the sentence like "people with falling cholesterol over time predicts greate rmortality due to an underyling illness which may be chronic for many years".

Just because there might be a weaker link between LDL and heart disease than say C-Reactive protein. It doesn't mean that LDL cholesterol readings cannot predict with a good degree of accuracy at which point Cardiac events are likely to occur. People are being very narrow minded. Heart disease is multi factoral, again, you want all *known* risk factors low.

Optimal total cholesterol is probably around 150mg/dl.

If the people of Masaii can eat tons of fat that doesn't mean 'you can' also. They eat their food, but still have a total cholesterol of around 120mg/dl. Hence why they got virually no heart disease.

Capo, for your age, 151mg/dl is where you should be at.

Last edited by Whoa182 : Thu, Mar-01-07 at 07:40.
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  #51   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 08:19
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
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Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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Low cholesterol numbers are highly correlated with mental impairment. There is nothing wrong with your cholestrol numbers, in fact, as a rough rule of thumb your numbers have 'improved' as your fasting triglycerides are rock bottom. Leave the desire for low cholesterol numbers to the fetishists. Read some well supported literature like 'The Great Cholesterol Con' by Anthony Colpo that clearly and effectively explains why basing your health on low cholesterol numbers is an error and in fact, unhealthy. It is full of great references that Whoa182 refuses to read and is unable to refute; look up his posts where he consistantly abandons threads when challenged to back up his poor ideas.

Kind regards
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  #52   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 10:30
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capo
Wow, thanks dina1957 for all your input! I was under the impression that high cholesterol is good at any age and that total cholesterol or LDL cholesterol do not cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, or any other diseases for that matter.

You may or may not be familiar with Weston A. Price:
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernd...ts_cholest.html

I am very much familiar with WP. Initially, just like you, thoguht: wow, they are onto something, and started eating lots of sat.fat. just to gain weight and my LDL climbed. I even was a patient of the dr who is affiliated with WP and is on the board. He is very much "up to date" with his ideas and treatment plans but did not help me much with my health issues.
As for CHO, it is your choice, and enjoy it while you young. Hope you won't be dissapointed later in your life.
ETA: according to many studies, plaque formation starts in teen years, I have no time now, but you can read more about it, WP is not the only one foundation there the knowledge.
D.

Last edited by dina1957 : Thu, Mar-01-07 at 10:34. Reason: ETA
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  #53   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 13:53
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
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Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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With low triglycerides, LDL doesn't seem to be a problem. Fortunately, except for the rare inexplainable oddball, fasting triglyerides are always low on low-carb.

Kind regards
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  #54   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 16:11
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
With low triglycerides, LDL doesn't seem to be a problem. Fortunately, except for the rare inexplainable oddball, fasting triglyerides are always low on low-carb.

Kind regards

Triglycerides are very easy to lower, and everything <150 is OK, no need to have it rock bottom. It takes a lot of refined sugar, fat and ... booze to raise TRG, but it does not take much sat. fat to raise LDL. LDL is hard to lower and lots of sat. fat raises LDL. So far I have read that high LDL is associated with CAD. But I am not a doctor, not sure if you are, you sound very affirmative on the issue. Regards.
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  #55   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 18:44
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
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Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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Cholesterol is not causitive of heart disease, it is a WEAK predictor at best. Triglycerides are a better predictor, but again, they are not causitive. For those that buy into the cholestrol hypothesis (I find it extremely weak) low triglycerides indicate the fraction of LDL that has been identified as the most damaging (predictor?) will be very low, regardless of the total LDL level. My best guess is that most heart disease is related to wacked carb metabolism that is usually, but not always, indicated by high triglycerides and sometimes high cholesterol numbers. Wildly fluxuating blood sugars and high insulin is probably far more damaging to the body that anything from the cholesterol of any type.

I've never been very impressed by argument by authority, I gots a brain and like to use it. I have taken a few higher level undergraduate and graduate physiology classes and the pre-meds never did very well. They complained a lot for as a rule, they didn't seem to understand process well; they could memorize several hundred pages of anatomy in a week, but ask them to explain a simple graph... A MD is basically a mechanic for the human body, and like some mechanics, many aren't very good at diagnosis. I guess what I am taking a lot of words to say, I have much higher standards than the average MD.

Kind regards
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  #56   ^
Old Thu, Mar-01-07, 18:54
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Wildly fluxuating blood sugars and high insulin is probably far more damaging to the body that anything from the cholesterol of any type.


I tend to agree since high levels of insulin tend to drive eicosanoid and prostaglandin production in the direction of inflammation.
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  #57   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-07, 12:35
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant

I I have taken a few higher level undergraduate and graduate physiology classes and the pre-meds never did very well.
They complained a lot for as a rule, they didn't seem to understand process well; they could memorize several hundred pages of anatomy in a week, but ask them to explain a simple graph... A MD is basically a mechanic for the human body, and like some mechanics, many aren't very good at diagnosis. I guess what I am taking a lot of words to say, I have much higher standards than the average MD.

So pre-med students failed physiology or they did not seem to undertsnad it? How they managed to get undergraduate degree then I belive it includes more than just memorizing anatomy.
In my home country, my pre-med students peers also took physics, calculus, phys. and oranic chem. and all of this requires understanding graphs and functions, I believe. We just took physics, calculus,a nd phys. chem.
MD is not a mechanic, since human body is not a mechanism, where each part can be isolated and fixed separately. BTW, if a mechanic can't find a problem, he is not a mechanic at all. I work with diffrent type of equipment and we never failed to find a problem and troubleshoot it.
Human body is not a mechanism, it is a biochemical system that involved hundreds of hormones. Just endocrine system alone consists of many glands, not only pancrease, and these glands works synergetically and define the rest of the functions. Unfortunately, many choose to ignore this fact, and simply fixated on one hormone, insulin.
This system is too complex and poorly understood, and each part (organ) can't be troubleshooted and fixed JUST BY ISOLATION. Unfortunately, this approach is used in western medicine and many problems arise because of it. No singe medication exist that treats one problem without creating a dozen of others but this is the best drs can do so far.
As for cholesterol in heart desease connection, it is not completely missunderstood. Those who have choosen to ignore high CHO, take their own chance. Insulin and Bgs fluctuations are of course, damaging, but again, does not explain heart desease and atherosclerosis progression, high blood pressure, and other causes of heart atack and stroke in individuals with normal blood sugar and insulin, and follow up death from MI and stroke.
Low TRG is just a matter of dietary changes, they fluctuate a lot, and not really damamaging. They can spike after one meal and drop sharply, even if you overdone alcohol night before. High LDL is something that is problematic in terms of lowering, many despite proper diet and exercise, normal BGs, still have high LDL. Add to the picture other risk factors: family history of heart desease, any inflamatory reponse to autoimmune deseases (psoriasis, lupus, etc.) and any systemic inflamation in general - and here you have, perfect reason for LDL to be problematic.
It is the same narrow view that got us in troubles with low fat madness. Before it was all about fat, now it is all about sugar, insulin, and carbs. Let's wait another couple decades, and we may find something esle...
As for drs, I still find it facinating with their knowlege, my brain work very well with graphs, mathematical equations, and everything can be logcially derived and calculated. But I would never be able to perform any surgery, even minor, although I know how to give injections, but i am still facinated with drs who save lives and perform miracles on daily basis. The more I read on human biology and biochemistry, the more I realize how hard it is to practice medicine. IMO, mathematically speaking, human body has too many variables to be desribed by few equations and graphs, as mechanism systems and equipment, and does not fit into laws of physics and themodynamics for the most part of it.
So I would rather be on a safe side, keeping my eye on both: CHO and BGs, until it is all clarified.
Best wishes,
D.
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  #58   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-07, 15:33
capo capo is offline
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What about homocysteine levels in relationship to risk factors for CHF and atherosclerosis? I've been told that it's the homocysteine levels that really indicate likelihood for heart attack/CHF.
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  #59   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-07, 16:07
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
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Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capo
What about homocysteine levels in relationship to risk factors for CHF and atherosclerosis? I've been told that it's the homocysteine levels that really indicate likelihood for heart attack/CHF.


It is not clear that homocystein is a realible marker for pending MI and CAD as well as C-reactive protein. Some recent studies suggest that homocystein raises when heart desease is present already and with advanced age, high animal protein diet and lack of certain enzymes and vitamins to metabolize this substance. When it comes to women and heart desease, I believe, it is estrogen and young age that keeps our artheries clean and heart healthy. After that - we are at much higher risk than men when it comes to CHD, so every little bit of protection counts.
Read on and draw your own conclusion, IMO more studies needed.
http://www.smw.ch/docs/pdf200x/2006/47/smw-11283.pdf
http://healthfullife.umdnj.edu/arch...e02_archive.htm
http://www.hearthealthywomen.org/pa...mocysteine.html
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  #60   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-07, 21:04
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
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Plan: Paleo Gluten free
Stats: 14/14/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
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Location: Florida
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With tris below 70, your LDL are the big, "good" fluffy kind. Your ratios are good!

Check out Bkloots' numbers!

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...680#post6622680

She's been doing this for four years I think she said.
She eats a lot of fat too.

Last edited by 2bthinner! : Fri, Mar-02-07 at 21:24.
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