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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 16:48
Nutri-nut Nutri-nut is offline
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Posts: 25
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 165/160/135
BF:
Progress: 17%
Post Mixed blood test results

The fact that doctors are seeing mixed blood work results from those on the Atkins diet proves what I'm gradually concluding in my own mind: different things work for different people.

It's the same reason that my husband's grandfather ate bacon & eggs and a host of other high fat, high cholesterol foods and lived to be in his 90's but my grandfather died of a heart attack at the age of 45.

Is anyone else confused about what to eat? I've done hours of research and have found testimonies and studies that tell the adverse effects of high protein diets. I've also found the same supporting high protein diets.

I've experimented with my own diet and have found that exercise coupled with a reduced intake of calories from all food groups results in weight loss for me. There is no magic formula. Therer are many ways to lose weight (including starvation), but weight loss is not always a sign that the method is healthy and good.

So who do you believe?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 17:07
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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I believe what works for me. Tried it both ways (high carb/low fat and low carb/high fat). Low carb works better for me.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 18:19
Nutri-nut Nutri-nut is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 25
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 165/160/135
BF:
Progress: 17%
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The only thing, Lisa, is that there is so much information out there that explains the long-term detrimental effects of the low carb/high protein diet. But I haven't found anything that shows eating a balanced diet in all food groups causes long-term harmful effects to the body. For that reason, I would opt for the "safe" way.

And didn't Dr. Atkins suffer a heart attack recently??
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 18:26
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,482
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Quote:
And didn't Dr. Atkins suffer a heart attack recently??

Depends how you define "heart attack." A heart attack usually describes a myocardial infarction, damage to the heart muscle by clagged up corocary arteries.

Dr Atkins had a cardiac arrest, caused by an infection of the heart muscle, caught while travelling overseas. In fact while having his condition investigated, drs were able to show that Dr Atkins' coronary arteries were completely clear.

Rosebud
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 18:30
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,506
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutri-nut
The only thing, Lisa, is that there is so much information out there that explains the long-term detrimental effects of the low carb/high protein diet.


Like what? I found some at the Soft Drinks Association, the Sugar Association, and several drug makers publications, but they were opinions, not studies.

Quote:

But I haven't found anything that shows eating a balanced diet in all food groups causes long-term harmful effects to the body. For that reason, I would opt for the "safe" way.


Of course, eating healthy balanced food is right way. Just avoid high-sugar/carbs, stick to the basics, meats and vegetables, and you're safe, that's what low-carb is all about.

Unfortunately, most people consider "balance" to be high sugar, starch, and low fat-solubile nutrients. This is a 70's fad, that resulted in too many health problems and obesity.

Wa'il
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-03, 19:03
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Let's see...9 years on the ADA diet which many would consider "healthy" and "balanced" got me put on medication to control my by then out of control blood sugar. It also got my blood pressure out of control and my weight steadily climbing.
Now...let's see....2 years on a low carb diet and all of that has been reversed. No more need for medications, normal readings on all blood tests, weight down 75 pounds, blood pressure normal. 2 years isn't long term enough for you? Check out Richard Bernstein, a type 1 diabetic who has been eating this way for more than 40 years. Not many type 1 diabetics live as long as he has, let alone be in the great physical condition that he is; complication-free. Oh...he's also a doctor.
Thanks for your concern, but I'll stick with this if you don't mind.
I'm not sure what your definition of "healthy" and "balanced" is, but I eat fruit, vegetables, natural fats and proteins. What I don't eat is refined sugar, starches, flours, pasta, rice, and highly processed foods.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 05:55
bluesmoke bluesmoke is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 521
 
Plan: Atkins+
Stats: 386/285/200 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 54%
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If there are long term studies, if there is proof about long term damage from low carb, let's see them. Of course, I don't expect any because there aren't any.
We do have various studies of peoples who traditionally eat a low carb diet. The Masai, the Inuit, the Samburu, all live primarily on meat and fat and have remarkable ststes of health as long as they don't start eating a "modern" diet.
Nyah Levi
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 07:29
wcollier wcollier is offline
Mad Scientist
Posts: 4,402
 
Plan: Healthy eating/lifestyle
Stats: 156/115/115 Female 5'4 - small frame
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Huh? Proof please. Actual proof of all these statements would be really nice. Not just word of mouth, but bonafide (valid and reliable preferred) research studies. Please, please, post away!!!! If you were in school, my dear, you'd fail!!!! Lesson 1: don't make statements without backing them up.

I'm tired of hearing all these myths from the medical community (and uninformed laypersons). Sorry, but my patience is wearing a little thin. I would probably be a little more open to this thread if I didn't get the feeling that this is "common sense" vs. "Atkins" manipulation.

Having said that, if you don't have blood sugar problems, then by all means, go exercise and find the diet that works best for you. Everyone has to find what works best for them. That's the bottom line. It's not all about losing weight, but being healthy.

Wanda
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 08:01
Nutri-nut Nutri-nut is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 25
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 165/160/135
BF:
Progress: 17%
Default

Reducing simple carbs DOES improve blood sugar levels. But Atkins goes from one extreme to another. The solution isn't to eliminate ALL carbs and ingest too much fatty protein.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 09:22
tofi's Avatar
tofi tofi is offline
Posts: 6,204
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 244/220/170 Female 65.4inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Ontario
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Yes and NO.
Yes, the two week Induction is somewhat extreme in its proportions. BUT that ISN'T the Atkins Diet. Each week, the amount of carbohydrate is increased until each person determines that they have reached THEIR Critical Carb Level for Losing. (CCLL) Then Pre-maintenance and Maintenance are EVEN HIGHER in good carbs.

In the end, the only things that never come back into your REGULAR diet are sugars and starches.

To quote Dr. Atkins in a recent interview: if you are still on Induction Levels of carbohydrate, you are NOT doing my diet.

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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 10:12
wcollier wcollier is offline
Mad Scientist
Posts: 4,402
 
Plan: Healthy eating/lifestyle
Stats: 156/115/115 Female 5'4 - small frame
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutri-nut
Reducing simple carbs DOES improve blood sugar levels. But Atkins goes from one extreme to another. The solution isn't to eliminate ALL carbs and ingest too much fatty protein.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/


First, Atkins is not a high-protein diet. If anything, it's a high-fat, low-carb, moderate protein diet. I've experienced first hand, the results of not eating enough protein. How about failure to thrive vegetarians?

Second, I'd prefer a less biased opinion than Dr. Neal Barnard. He's got his own agenda. But if that's all we've got to work with....

Read what he says about high-protein being bad. He is twisting the truth to suit his own agenda. Protein does not cause kidney damage. There is no such study to prove this. People with kidney damage cannot eat protein, but protein does not cause kidney damage. I will get you the evidence for this when I have more time to pull out my research. In the meantime, check this link. Nowhere does it indicate that kidney stones are caused by protein: http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/kid...onadul.htm#what

Fourth, Atkins is not the only LC plan. There are lots of them with varying degrees of restriction.

Fifth: The following statement discredits everything that Neal Barnard says:

Quote:
In addition, widely circulated news reports of a myocardial infarction recently suffered by diet-book author Robert Atkins have suggested that neither diet nor atherosclerosis played any role in the unfortunate event. The net result of such reporting may be to suggest that individuals may disregard well-established contributors to heart disease.


Coming from a doctor, that's just plain manipulation of the truth.

Wanda

Last edited by wcollier : Fri, Feb-14-03 at 10:20.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-03, 12:22
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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The truth is that there have been no long term studies done on the effects of consuming a low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet. We have examples of cultures that primarily eat fat and protein and thrive on them (see above for the specific peoples). Higher rates of disease have only shown up in these peoples when they started adopting a more Western type diet. For example, acne was virtually unknown among the Inuit (they didn't even have a word for it) until a more Western diet was introduced; ditto for heart disease and diabetes.

You can't use the induction phase of one particular low carb plan (and there are many other types of plans besides Atkins) as an example of the whole plan or all low carb plans. It's two weeks on a plan that lasts a lifetime; a mere blip on the radar screen. Even the induction phase of the Atkins plan doesn't cut all carbs. There are no low carb plans that I'm aware of that cut out ALL carbohydrates. If you know of one, please share it. Personally, I consider the ADA position that it's okay for diabetics to consume sugar as long as they cover it with more medication a bit extreme.

There are conditions for which drastically reducing carb intake and limiting the carbs that you do eat to those that are low glycemic has been shown to to be effective such as PCOS, Epilepsy, hypoglycemia, diabetes and insulin resistance (otherwise known as Syndrome X). More and more doctors are starting to recommend low carb plans for these conditions. One of my co-workers was just diagnosed with hypoglycemia. Her doctor's recommendation? No more than 50 grams of low glycemic carbs a day. Another of my co-workers was diagnosed with insulin resistance. Her doctor's recommendation (after consulting with his dietician)? No more than 40 grams of low glycemic carb a day.

Fat has not been shown to contribute to heart disease in the absence of a high carb diet, unless you want to start talking about hydrogentated or transfats which I'd like to point out that many low fat products contain along with high amounts of high fructose corn syrup. If you know of any study that has, please post it.

The link you gave to PCRM's site is an opinion, not a study.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Feb-15-03, 10:42
wcollier wcollier is offline
Mad Scientist
Posts: 4,402
 
Plan: Healthy eating/lifestyle
Stats: 156/115/115 Female 5'4 - small frame
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Nutri-Fit:

Hmmm, I was ready to post again with my research until I realized that looking at your profile, the only posts you make to this forum are through the Low Carb Studies & Research thread. You've never LCed, never read a LC book, and follow a "Common Sense" diet. Furthermore, all the studies you cite (on this thread and elsewhere) are all linked to a site by a militant vegetarian under the guise of "Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine". This site is basically an open threat to any medical doctor that advocates Dr. Atkins' diet that PCRM is "watching". Dr. Barnard uses (or misuses) his psychiatric training well.

Your post here comes in the guise of "who do I believe"? But now I wonder if we are being deceived. If you are a vegetarian coming onto this forum to discuss your issues, that's great. Welcome! Let's just be honest about our motivations. How can we have an intellectual discussion without honesty? Or maybe I'm totally paranoid and that isn't the case. Please set me straight.

So instead of wasting my time responding to what I initially intended to respond to, I'd rather just provide this link to my fellow LCers so that we can make it known to the government how good we feel!!! Anyone reading this, please check out this link.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/registry.html

Wanda

Last edited by wcollier : Sat, Feb-15-03 at 10:43.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Feb-15-03, 10:54
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,506
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Quote:
Originally posted by wcollier
I'd rather just provide this link to my fellow LCers so that we can make it known to the government how good we feel!!! Anyone reading this, please check out this link.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/registry.html


Actually, this is not a government registry. This site is PCRM in disguise.

Some members did fill out their form though, as an "in your face" testimony

Wa'il
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Feb-15-03, 10:58
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by tamarian
Some members did fill out their form though, as an "in your face" testimony

Wa'il


I did! They say that they will present their "evidence" to the government. Any guesses as to whether they'll include the positive comments in their report?
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