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  #31   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:35
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,470
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 236/180/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toner
In reading your post again Kate, I noticed another glaring example of why people turn to Atkins. It's called speed. The question for overweight people becomes, 'why do something that's healthy when it takes longer and more discipline to accomplish when you can believe a little hype and do something totally unhealthy and get quick results?'
Strange .. I've been low-carbing for nearly 3 years. And I do make a point to eat plenty of fat. Of course, I only eat fat as it arrives from nature, not the packaged, processed or fast-food kind. In the meantime, my cholesterol has dropped from high risk category to textbook perfect numbers, including a nice rise in the protective HDL. My kidney and liver function is perfectly normal. In fact, prior to low-carbing I had elevated liver enzymes due to Accutane therapy, which I took 15 years ago for severe acne .. those levels are now normal. Before turning to low-carb, I even followed a very low fat vegan diet (McDougall) for a whole year, which did not resolve the liver problem and actually worsened my cholesterol and triglyceride levels. I also gained weight, and developed Irritable Bowel from the high volume of whole grains. Most whole grains contain anti-nutrient enzymes called phytates which even long, slow cooking can only partially de-activate.

For the record, I have never in my life been a great consumer of fast foods. As a Health Professional, I'm always careful to eat a "healthy" diet. I did not gain my weight snarfing down endless Big Macs and Snickers bars. I gained it eating whole wheat bread, skim-milk yogurt, and fat-free salad dressings.

My weight loss is not "speedy", as I have numerous chronic health conditions and medications with weight gain as a side effect. The fact that I've been successful in losing the weight I have is a bonus added to my improved health, and I anticipate continued weight loss, albeit slow, over the years to come.

Not everybody follows a low-carb plan for the "speedy" results.

Doreen
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  #32   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:38
Baconbabe Baconbabe is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Dr Atkins
Stats: 268/218/165
BF:
Progress: 49%
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"AHA has NOT changed its point of view and still rcommends fruit, vegetables and grain"... Yes..and that's because the AHA is just as anal as all the other idiots that run their mouth about Low Carb being bad for you...

Where exactly does it say you can't have fruit, vegetables and grains on atkins?? I eat all of the above..so does anyone else who is at On going weightloss or Maintenance.

You..like alot of other morons who thrash this way of eating have no idea what it's about..have you even read the book completely?? Obviously not or you'd know that people who follow the plan correctly can eat all of the above..You're making points that ignorant people make about it being 'high fat' or all meat and cheese..those are myths..old wise tales..get over it.

This is what i ate yesterday and is an average day for me:

Breakfast

1 Slice whole wheat high fibre toast
1 tbs s/f jam & 1 tbs peanut butter
2 eggs scrambled with onions/mushrooms/sundried tomatoes/spinach - topped with cheddar

Snack

3 big stalks Celery
2 tbs cream cheese

Lunch

4 cups Romaine
2 tbs dressing
1 grilled chicken breast
shredded parmesan

Snack

1 apple or bowl of grapes

Dinner

8oz bbq steak
sauteed button mushrooms
cauliflower and cheese sauce
side salad

Dessert

Bowl of rasberries drizzled with heavy cream

WOW..is that every unhealthy! WOW..I'm eating SOOO little..i must be in starvation mode!!! WOW..look at me gorging myself with fatty foods!!!! I'm going to die from not getting enough nutrients!!!! I love ignorant people..they make the world a better place
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  #33   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:45
Toner Toner is offline
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Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/177/168
BF:
Progress: 25%
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If all you were eating was whole wheat bread, skim-milk yogurt and fat free salad dressings yo uwould not have gained weight. I think you may be suffering from a little condition called 'denial.'

Of course the weight you gained was from fatty foods and carbs together. I think blaming weight gain on medications is a way of deflecting the blame from your own inactivity. I have an aunt who is obese and claims her medication caused it. You know what she eats at dinner parties? Cheeseburgers and pizza.

Anyone who eats more calories than they burn is going to gain weight. That is the natural condition of our being. Atkins wants to distort that so that we can eat higher calories than we burn and still lose weight. it works, but only temporarily. And worse still, fat clogs your arteries and is bad for your blood. Hearts do not like fat. They like excercise and low fat.

Why do you think obese people are called fat? Because you are what you eat.
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  #34   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:52
mnokat's Avatar
mnokat mnokat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 666
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 248/188.8/148 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MA, USA
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Quote:
By the way, has anyone attempted switching from Atkins to a low fat diet? What were the results?


hmmm... I'm not so sure. I do know that it is hard to do both Low Carb AND Low fat - Your calories have to come from somewhere. The Zone Diet is the closet thing I can think to something along those lines. Most of the people on this forum continue a low carb WOE indefinitely. I would guess that people that give up the WOL end up not participating in the forum...

Hey, you're totally entitled to your opinion. No one here would begrudge you that. As you said, people believe what they want to believe. However, as you have never faced the same issues with your weight that the majority of us have, you're not exactly qualified on the subject. Sure, low fat may work for you, and many people like you. I know my own family, low fat works great for my dad's side. It hasn't worked for me though.

Quote:
Dr. Atkins has capitalized on this concept, by telling you that you can lose weight rapidly while still remaining healthy.


I disagree. Dr. Atkins, like most nutritionists, condones losing 1%-2% of your body weight per week. Anything else he believes is too much. So, for me 1%-2% of my body weight would be about 2 -4 lbs/week. I think that that is pretty reasonable, and healthy. Obviously those with more weight to lose than myself can lose more per week in the beginning. The "big losses" on Atkins usually come during the first induction phase and are usually attributed to water weight.

As for China, I really don't know enough about their diets to comment. I do know that soy, fish, and chicken tend to play a big role though, as do vegetables. The fact that most of China is rural and they are out all day farming probably has something to do with it also. When I mentioned the far east, I should have mentioned the Industrialized Far East, where traditional diets are being taken over by more "western" foods, and schedules are busier like in America. And in Survivor, of which I am a big fan, btw - they eat very little carbs. I'm not sure where you get that idea. THis season the tribes have been living on fish and leafy veggies, with the occasional "treat" of some rice noodles. I think that the biggest reason the survivors all waste away has more to do with starvation level calories. Based upon what I've seen they can't be eating more than 700 cals a day. I think even you would agree that that is terribly unhealthy, and no way for anyone to try to lose weight!

Quote:
High fat and high refined carbs together are the problem. Low fat and low refined carb is the solution. Yes, it takes longer to lose weight this way but it is healthier in the long run.


Quote:
I believe that a carbohydrate based diet, with low fat, will result in a lean physique as long as there is some activity involved in the person's life.


I again disgree. But that is just my, and most of the +18K members of this forum's opinion. As I've stated, I tried the high carb / low fat thing... many times in fact. For years at a time. It didn't work. Plain and simple. Everyone is different. Everyone's metabolism is different. What works for you may not (and, in fact, does not) work for me. No matter what you believe, I know this to be a fact. Would you begrudge me this WOL because it goes against your opinion - even though I've lost 25 lbs, and am stronger, and fitter, and healthier than I've been in years?

Last edited by mnokat : Thu, Dec-05-02 at 15:00.
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  #35   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:53
Baconbabe Baconbabe is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Dr Atkins
Stats: 268/218/165
BF:
Progress: 49%
Talking

Tell that to allllll the people who have maintained their weightloss for years and years..all the people who have gone OFFmedication for high blood pressure and diabetes...who's pains have gone away...who are finally sleeping through the night..who are the healthiest and most energetic they have ever been...

You can keep your opinion..that's all it is is an opinion..means nothing what so ever
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  #36   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 14:56
Baconbabe Baconbabe is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 222
 
Plan: Dr Atkins
Stats: 268/218/165
BF:
Progress: 49%
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well said mnokat
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  #37   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 15:01
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,470
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 236/180/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Toner
If all you were eating was whole wheat bread, skim-milk yogurt and fat free salad dressings yo uwould not have gained weight. I think you may be suffering from a little condition called 'denial.'

Of course the weight you gained was from fatty foods and carbs together..
Well, since I was there and you were not, folks will just have to take my word for it

Not everyone is driven by impatience and the NEED for fast results, forgetting anything but short term, immediate goals and instant gratification. Believe it or not, some of us actually are disciplined, and strongly motivated by long-term goals.

Nothing I've read in this thread is new; the arguments have all been debunked before, and frankly, anybody can use the Search function to find them.

I wish you success in your own personal goals, and ... hope your hockey team makes it all the way to the finals.

Good luck.

Doreen
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  #38   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 15:20
mnokat's Avatar
mnokat mnokat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 666
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 248/188.8/148 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MA, USA
Talking oh goodie!

I just noticed all of the extra posts in the past few minutes... I seemed to have missed a few while I was typing.

I just caught the "speed" comments, and the calorie ones.
I am in qualified agreement with you on both counts.

1) I do agree that SOME people, such as yourself for example, do hear about Atkins and start it for a "quick fix". However, that is not the majority of us. In fact, if you look around this forum a bit you will find that it's barely even a minority of the active members. As I've said before, most of us have dieted for years, we know what to expect. And a "quick fix", although it sounds good, isn't going to keep the weight off (substitue, diebetes, high cholesterol, etc) for the rest of our lives .

2) Calories in must equal less than calories out in order to lose weight. Agreed. In fact, I don't think anyone here will disagree with this fact. Because it is a fact. The point that you seem to continuously miss is that we (as in the majority of the members of this forum), tend to eat MORE calories on a low fat/ high carb diet than we do on a low carb / higher fat diet! Low carb = cravings for us. It = hunger. As I'm sure you know Hunger + Cravings = EATING. THIS is the point. This is why this WOE is so succsessful for so many of us.

There is this little chemical in our bodies called Insulin. In case you didn't know, ingestion of refined carbs, and highly glycemic foods results in the body producing insulin. This is supposed to help your body be able to process the foods that you eat. For most of us though, we are known as insulin resistant. Which means that our bodies produce more insulin that they should, which in turns means that we have cravings after eating such food, so that the excess insulin in out body will have something to do... we need more food to give the insulin it's job. however, when we eat again, it produces another insulin release, etc. etc. As you can see, it's really a viscious cycle. But, there are physiological, chemical reasons why LC works. Especially in insulin resistant people - of whom we are many more than you would think.

Feel free to do a search on insulin resistance. There are many studies, articles, and even posts in this forum to explain it better than my little summary just did.

Okay, time to hit the gym! HIIT Cardio tonight!

Have a great night everyone!
Kate
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 15:54
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,506
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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I'll just add my two cents here, in regards to the comments on AHA.

The link posted to the AHA statement is neither a scientific study, nor research. It is a an official statement by an organization. In terms of scientific merits, it has none, and it never claimed to be.

For example, the FDA conducted a study to determine if the Swedish study is correct in regards to high number of acrelimydes (a carcinogen responsible for cancer) in cooked starchy carbs. The research done by the FDA found it to be true, but the official statement issued by the FDA, just said the same as the AHA, eat high-carbs and low-fat.

So, you have to separate between official statements, and scientific studies. They're not the same, and they have different merits and quite a different agenda and audience.

It is interesting to note that the AHA funded another scientific study, to refute the results of the Duke study. What were the results? They were identical to the results found by the Duke researchers.

Both studies are posted in the Studies and Research forum.

Wa'il
P.S. In regards to your comments on moderators, we're also members who read and post. We're not ganging up on you. As long as you keep it clean, you need not worry.
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 16:01
asugar's Avatar
asugar asugar is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,260
 
Plan: Shoogadownsizing!
Stats: 205/145/150 Female 5'4"
BF:F/C/C
Progress: 109%
Location: Goalsville!
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I'm one of those people who started this diet for a "quick fix." I had every intention of just doing the lowcarb thing to "shrink my stomach" so that I could stand to stick to something like the WW diet. After being on it for 3 months, I have decided to make lowcarbing a WOE permanently. When I was doing WW, I used to panic some days when it was only 1 in the afternoon and all my points were already used up. The free points foods just didn't fill me up.
asugar
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  #41   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 16:51
amieK
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Thumbs up I second that asugar!

I lost 56 lbs in 8 months on WW three Years ago, then worked for them for a year. The most common complaint I heard was HUNGER! All I could do was recommend filling up on the infamous Garden Vegetable aka Cabbage Soup.

By the way, has anyone attempted switching from Atkins to a low fat diet? What were the results?

I wasn't doing Atkins but my own combo of low carb WW when I decided to try the lowest fat eating plan of them all - rawfood veganism. The subsequent carb cravings weren't pretty and I only lasted a week.

Right now I eat MAINLY RAW vegetables, a moderate amount of fruit (more than most LC plans allow) supplemented with WW sized portions of turkey, lamb, beef, fish, eggs and moderate amounts of nuts, cold-pressed flax and olive oils, cheese and yogurt. I also eat dried fruit in small amounts when I really crave something sweet and on occasion I will eat a small amount of cured pork such as ham or bacon. About once a week I will have a tiny amount of rice, rice bread or pasta and even more infrequently will I eat a potato cause I really just don't like 'em much. I choose leaner cuts of meat because I like them better and cut the fat and skin off because it doesn't appeal to me. I do NOT eat refined sugar, deep-fried foods or anything that comes in a box, mandarin oranges excepted .

This looks like a pretty healthy diet to me. I don't get cravings and I do not feel the urge to "devour like a mad horse."

I am allergic to gluten-containing grains and corn. After I completely detoxed them out of my system I had an anaphylactic reaction to a few bites of (whole wheat) pancake. A few months later, I also had a really frightening anaphylactic reaction to eating popcorn. I've also had milder toxic reactions to soy and other legumes.

If I ate according to AHA recommendations I'd be dead in minutes.

So all those dangerous long-term effects of LC you keep talking about are just something I'll have to take a chance on, considering the alternative....

ciao,
amie
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 16:57
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default Quick fix...

Yup...it sure was a quick fix for me. My blood sugar, blood pressure and triglycerides came down so fast, it made my doc's head spin (something the ADA diet couldn't do, even after 8 years on it and for the record, the ADA diet is low fat)! Total cholesterol also dropped 52 points. Weight loss, on the other hand, hasn't been quite so rapid..75 lbs. in 18 months (all water according to the "experts"...yeah, right! ).
You display and distinct lack of knowledge about the hormone insulin and how it affects multiple body systems, including fat storage/release, other hormone production and cholesterol production. People who have hyperinsulinemia, cannot release fat as the excess insulin is telling the body to STORE it, not release it. What causes hyperinsulinemia? Insulin resistance. What causes insulin resistance? Excess insulin production. What causes excess insulin production? More carbs than the body can handle, including those that come from fruit. Fat does not cause the body to produce insulin and protein only minimally. You don't have to be a diabetic to be insulin resistant, although diabetics are insulin resistant by definition and if you are insulin resistant, you're headed for diabetes if you let it go untreated along with all of the other health problems that go along with diabetes including heart disease, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia and kidney failure.
It's estimated that 60 million Americans alone have diabetes and that number is increasing at epidemic rates. Since diabetics are insulin resistant by nature and have a problem with carbohydrate metabolism by nature, I ask you does it make sense to tell them to eat more of what they have a problem with to start with? Yet that's exactly what the "experts" at the ADA have been doing for years. It seems to me that here we have at least 60 million people that can benefit from a controlled carb diet, not to mention the 30 million or so more Americans that have diabetes and don't know it and the several hundred thousand more (at least) that have insulin resistance. Yet we have the ADA saying, "Hey, it's okay to eat sugar. Just cover it with more medication!" This is their "expert" opinion. They can take their "healthy" diet and "expert opinions" and shove it. ALL my bloodwork and tests look far better now than they ever did while religiously following the "recommended" diet for diabetics fo 8 years and all it got me was fatter with a need for medication to control my blood sugar and blood pressure (which I no longer need on low carb, by the way).
Low carbing saved my life. Literally. Deal with it.
By the way, I fail to see how scarfing down candy bars would be considered "healthy" on any diet.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 17:09
amieK
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Question A Question....

I'd like to know just how people are supposed to be able to fit in the recommended 8-10 servings of fruit and vegetables when they are stuffed full of starchy carbs?

I never seemed to be able to fit in more than a maximum of 3 or 4 servings of veg and 2 or 3 of fruit before LC. I just didn't have room in my tummy for them. And I wasn't even eating the full amount of whole grains recommended. And NO I was NOT stuffing myself with Big Macs candy bars etc. I was filling up on homemade whole grain bread, crackers and homemade low fat muffins.

IT IS A GREAT BIG FAT LIE THAT PEOPLE EATING LC DO NOT EAT THEIR VEGIES. THEY PROBABLY EAT MORE VEGIES THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

Sorry for yelling but it makes me so mad that this lie is perpetuated so widely.

Now I'm off to make a GREAT BIG salad to have with my 4oz steak for supper. And I'm going to have a 4oz glass of wine too! Can I count that as a fruit? lol

Fellow vegie lovers unite!
amie
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 17:10
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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If you want a study to back up what I just said, read here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...threadid=73523.
Fructose in the form of glucose and high-fructose corn syrup is widely used in diabetic and low fat products, it is also found in....fruit.
The fruit we have today has been specially bred over the years to contain higher and higher amounts of fructose and glucose to increase their sweetness and therefore their appeal. The fruit we have today is far different from that which was available even a few hundred years ago. Still think it's healthy to eat all the fruit you like just because it's low cal and low fat? Think again.
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-02, 17:16
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default Re: A Question....

Quote:
Originally posted by amieK

IT IS A GREAT BIG FAT LIE THAT PEOPLE EATING LC DO NOT EAT THEIR VEGIES. THEY PROBABLY EAT MORE VEGIES THAN ANYBODY ELSE.



Absolutely, Amie! I eat far more veggies now than I ever did on low fat; usually 5-6 servings a day. I also eat some low glycemic fruits such as berries and melons when they are in season. Nowhere in Dr. Atkins' book does he say that we must never eat veggies and fruit again. In fact, he encourages it! Even on induction, you are encouraged to eat at least 3 servings of veggies each day; more if you can stay under 20 grams of carb a day which isn't hard if you select low carb veggies and aren't scarfing down candy bars on the side.
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