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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Sep-29-02, 21:05
mikeroger mikeroger is offline
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Posts: 44
 
Plan: not sure
Stats: 230/195/170
BF:
Progress: 58%
Default

yes i do eat fibers, i eat 1 big bowl large salad of spinach, with endive in it, swiss chard.

every day, sometimes twice a day big bowl of spinach. i do go to the bathroom but most of the stuff that comes out is the spinach i ate. not the food !!!!!! or chicken, or meat

so something is wrong!
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Sep-29-02, 21:08
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeroger
yep

we arent allowed laxative i assume in induction>?

i took psyllium, it does jack


Laxatives are allowed, if needed, but magnesium citrate is overkill which is why your bowel movements were largely liquid. Mag citrate is used when someone is prepping for a sigmoidoscopy or colonoscopy to make sure the bowel is well cleaned out (which yours probably is by now) and works by pulling large amounts of water into the colon to precipitate evacuation.
Psyllium capsules may not be effective for you. Find some plain psyllium husks (nothing else added) and mix with a glass of water and down it quickly. Psyllium husks are good for adding bulk which you may need after that dose of mag citrate you gave yourself.
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 04:19
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

By the way...when I said to drink the psyllium husks quickly, I didn't mean that you had to do it immediately, only that once the psyllium and water are mixed you have to drink it fast or it turns into a glassfull of goo that you would need to eat with a spoon instead of drink.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 10:40
mikeroger mikeroger is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 44
 
Plan: not sure
Stats: 230/195/170
BF:
Progress: 58%
Default Regarding this so called "ENergy burst" on Atkins diet

i spoke to a couple people on the net that said they did low carb, atkin diet and their families did it too.

they said they never got any energy burst even after 3 months, they were eating 2000 calories sometimes more, never hungry but they never got energy bursts

and they were tired all the time

the guy said he lost around 15 lbs in 2 months then he stopped the diet cuz he was always tired and energy drained.

What gives???? idont wanna live the rest of my life low on energy if its low carb!


some of you low carb gurus please explain this. why do people after months of low carbing are still not energetic? isnt fat supposed to pump you up?

or is carb energy much faster than fat energy which is slower to pump you up?
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 10:45
agonycat's Avatar
agonycat agonycat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,473
 
Plan: AHP&FP
Stats: 197/125/137 Female 5' 6"
BF:42%/22%/21%
Progress: 120%
Location: Dallas, Texas
Default

Mike,

Go to www.atkinscenter.com and ask them.

I don't think anyone on this forum could answer your question since non of us give medical advice.

I know I got a burst of energy after 3 weeks. Not sure why you aren't.

Go ask the good Doctor himself.

Since you asked the question in your original thread and again else where I have merged the two together so as to keep the responses together.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 11:28
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

I complained about the same thing. Low energy levels. This is what Ezandreth posted. I folllowed his advice and found it helped me

Quote:
Originally posted by ezandreth
I did not get that for ages. Kept reading how everyone else did, but i was just TATT (tired all the time).
But I did get it in the end, when I simultaneously gave up dairy and started taking alpha-lipoic acid. I have since eaten cream and cheese and should probably cut down (it's just that cheese is such a handy convenience food) so I think it's the ALA that was significant.
Read all about it

http://www.supplementwatch.com/supa...supplementId=15

and see what you think. The article says it's harmless so you could try taking it and seeing if it makes a difference.
Zan
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 11:31
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Mike...

Let's review a few things here.

First....you said in previous posts in August that you had basically starved yourself for a month (nothing but a few tomatoes and some cucumbers every day).

Second...In another recent post, you said that you were doing your own version of the Fat Fast (again, low calorie), and while it's effective for those who are metabolically resistant, it's still not a wonderful experience and for those that are NOT metabolically resistant, it can be dangerous (which you were cautioned here on this board and Dr. Atkins also says clearly in his book)

Third...Here is this post, you are taking the max amount of psyllium capsules allowed and then dose yourself with magnesium citrate, which is a very harsh laxative.....

And you wonder why you are tired and not feeling so great??? Dude...come on here! You can't abuse your body like this and expect it feel fantastic and full of energy! It's going to take at least a couple of weeks (maybe longer) of treating it right before you see some improvement.
As for those who said they followed Atkins/low carb and didn't get that "energy burst", I can't really comment since I have no idea precisely what they were or weren't doing. I mentioned before that not everyone gets what would be called an energy burst, but that it's not common to feel dragged out and excessively tired on low carb unless you have some other problem going on in which case, a trip to the doctor would be in order.
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 15:04
mikeroger mikeroger is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 44
 
Plan: not sure
Stats: 230/195/170
BF:
Progress: 58%
Default

for god sake, i told you the starvation thing that happened in the august part of the summer would be little calories during the week then carb fest in weekend, then same thing during week and carb fest during weekend.

it worked last year, where id cheat where id stuff myself with EVERYTHING thousands of calories in one day of junk, food, fat, chicken, etcc for 1 day then go back to low calorie for rest of the week.

some said this jump starts the metabolism,

i did that and lost like 40lbs during last summer of 2001, of pure fat then i went back to normal eating(or maybe it was excess binging normal eating for 8 months) and regained 60 lbs

LOL
now im eating like 3 meals a day(never did this in my entire life, i always skip breakfast and eat maybe 1 main meal at dinner with family and the rest would be snacks all over the place with junk)

nway im eating 3 meals a day

Here's the diet :

BreakFast :
3 Eggs Omelette cooked into 1 table spoon of butter
(i dont eat cheese cuz atkin said it may cause stalls/addiction)

Lunch :
2 Cup Spinach Salad, half a cup of Endive , Red Wine Vinegair Dressing . 3 Table Spoon Butter melted over the spinach salad.
2 Garlic clove broken over the

2 Tuna Cans , Red Wine Vinegar Over it.
2 Garlic clove broken over the tuna.

Dinner :
2 Cup Spinach Salad, half a cup of Endive , Red Wine Vinegair Dressing .

2 Sardine Cans (omega3 fatty acids)(red wine vinegar dressing)
3 Table Spoon of Mayonaise sauce with 2 Garlic Clove in it.



and i RARELY AM HUNGRY at night for snacks, i go to bed around 10:30

i wake up at 9:30/10, i feel sleepy , exausted all day.
Some said the sleepiness , low alertness, fatigue , is cuz ur brain is demanding glucose and those are signs of low carb intake, and the low blood sugar, hypoglecemia everyone experiences on low carb diet.

where the h* is this burst of energy, this low carb life is expansive and i need to know if i will get energy back to study for school!

Last edited by agonycat : Mon, Sep-30-02 at 15:16.
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 15:19
agonycat's Avatar
agonycat agonycat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,473
 
Plan: AHP&FP
Stats: 197/125/137 Female 5' 6"
BF:42%/22%/21%
Progress: 120%
Location: Dallas, Texas
Default

Mike,

Maybe you missed the first time....please refrain from using offensive language in your posts.

I have edited the above post and removed the offensive language.


You want to know when the energy burst is coming? Go to www.atkinscenter.com and ask them.

THEY can assist you in your quest for answers. It seems no matter what we tell you here is good enough of an answer for you.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 15:21
melissa07's Avatar
melissa07 melissa07 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 273
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210.0/198.0/165 Female 5'5"
BF: entirely too much
Progress: 27%
Location: west virginia
Thumbs down

Wow, you would think with all the great advice you've been given, you'd at least listen to some of it. Choosing a way of eating for life is not about instant gratification. It sounds as if you've toyed with your metabolism a lot, and it may not respond the way you wish it would now. How much energy do you need to study for school? If you are that tired all the time, maybe there are issues other than your diet.

People on this forum are here to help. It is up to you whether or not you choose to listen. I'm not sure how old you are, but there is no need to swear or be offensive in this forum.
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 15:24
Talon's Avatar
Talon Talon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,512
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/203.5/140 Female 64 inches (5' 4'')
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Ohio, USA
Default

Hi Mike!

Have you put in your daily menu into www.fitday.com to see the nutrients? With a mainly fish diet, you could possibly getting some unbalanced nutrients - Iron comes to mind first. Too much iron can be bad, and too little iron can be bad. Your Dr. would be able to tell you if you are deficinet or not. What does your Dr. say?

I agree with Lisa, that your restrictive eating in August - really not that long ago, could be a problem - you body may still be recovering from that. Metabolism's can take quite some time to recover, if it all.

You also mentioned that this way of eating worked last year - well you are another year older and our bodies change, what worked last year may not work this year.

Do you get enough sleep? Take any medications that maybe a side affect would be feeling run down?

Good to see that you are in school, what are you studying?
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  #27   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 15:33
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeroger
, i told you the starvation thing that happened in the august part of the summer would be little calories during the week then carb fest in weekend, then same thing during week and carb fest during weekend.

it worked last year, where id cheat where id stuff myself with EVERYTHING thousands of calories in one day of junk, food, fat, chicken, etcc for 1 day then go back to low calorie for rest of the week.


Hmmm...that's not quite what you said here:http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...3407#post503407

Your story keeps changing, Mike and at this point it's honestly a bit difficult to know what to say or believe.

What you're eating right now would be a decent amount, but with your history of binging then starving, it's going to take your body quite a while to trust that you won't do it again. At this point your body doesn't know whether you're going to starve it or feed it and is holding out until it gets a steady supply for a while. Yo-yo dieting (where you lose the weight only to gain it back again) has a way of making your body more resistant to weight loss every time you do it not to mention that it's very unhealthy for your body.
I'm worried that you are reporting a habit of binging then starving because that is not a healthy eating pattern. In some cases, it could even signal the beginning of an eating disorder.
My advice at this point would be to pick a healthy way of eating, whatever you decide that to be, and stick with it for a minimum of 3 months, then stay with a healthy maintainance program so the weight doesn't come back on again. If you stick with what you've been doing, it won't be long before you wind up with a seriously damaged metabolism if it isn't that way already.
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  #28   ^
Old Mon, Sep-30-02, 21:49
mikeroger mikeroger is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 44
 
Plan: not sure
Stats: 230/195/170
BF:
Progress: 58%
Default

my story never changed,w hat are you talking about lisa N.

i told you i did many different diets during the summer and early sept before i officially began induction atkin style.

one thing i dont understand is that atkin said eat high protein, high fat, low carb. Now, the point is how much protein is required to retain lean muscle tissue and how much protein is consider high, over the requirement? or at the minimum protein requirement?

how much fat to eat , too much fat = not good according to some people on this forum as it will never give the chance for the body to go after the fat stores.

protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)

ok, so thast what im getting now

for every protein meal i add fat to it such as mayo in moderation and butter sometimes.

in the end my ratio is 70% fat , 29% protein, 1% carbs.

protein power says carb must be kept at lowest(dont be shy to keep carbs at 0 if u want , eskimos live decades eating only protein/fat from fish and get 0 carbs as theres no vegetation, they also say that carb are a useless macronutrient, if body needs carbs itll make its own with fat/protein).

so i figured , im already getting like 10 grams of carbs per day through spinach salad/garlic/mayo/eggs. so im fine,

now atkin said the point of burning fat metabolism is the ratio of FAT to Carbs not Protein to Carbs. I dont know why that is.

nway the point is i eat now 70% fat (easily done with a couple table spoon of may/butter spread out through the day)

my carb is always kept ubber low sometimes 5-10 grams or more if i eat more spinach/kale/swiss chard.

protein i always eat at least my minimum 120 grams, not trying to eat more because i dont want it to become glucose.

and total caloric intake is around 1700-1900 depending if im putting right portion correctlly but im pretty sure i am. i do use fitday to measure stuff too.

and i realized that if theres ketones excreted in the urine it does not MEAN your burning your fat stores. it means that your exactly burning the dietary fat. Fat stores are not excreted in the urine, they vanish as they are burned. Only thing that gets excreted in the urine is the dietary fat that you eat where the ketones are made. So basically you could show NEGATIVE on ketostix since your burning your fat stores and not enough dietary fat to show in there in the urine.

so the darker the ketostix, the less fat stores u are burning. so i think people should not EXAGERATE on the fat to eat

remember its the FAT RATIO TO CARB NOT THE FAT QUANTITIY TO CARB.

meaning as long as your not in starvation mode , getting high ratio fat to carb, and getting your minimum protein, i think that the body will go right at those stores purely , not touching any ounce of muscle, and itll burn the dietary fat quickly then quickly attack the stores.

i also read that if one works out he must increase his protein intake or he will LOSE muscle tissue while working out. when i begin body building soon, i plan to add 1 tuna can before i go to workout then 1 tuna can when i get back. muscles are created when they are destroyed during the workout, protein repairs them.


what do you guys think about this fat ratio/carb ratio/protein ratio.

protein power/atkin philosophy.

also protein power life plan isnt even meant to get u into ketosis apparently. protein power book says lowest carb u do when u wanna lose weight is arouind 30 grams a day, thats good for getting low insulin but u wont get into ketosis. so i guess protein power life plan is a glucose energy based system at all times .

only time when atkin is in ketosis is when ur in induction, when u go over 20 grams of carbs i believe ur out of ketosis and on a low glucose level but still losing weight cuz of the low glucose level and easily tappign into those fat stores but on a glucose burning mode


am i right? anyone care to share info on these concepts.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Oct-02-02, 12:59
infuriator infuriator is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 21
 
Plan: None
Stats: 165/170/170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeroger
my story never changed,w hat are you talking about lisa N.

i told you i did many different diets during the summer and early sept before i officially began induction atkin style.

one thing i dont understand is that atkin said eat high protein, high fat, low carb. Now, the point is how much protein is required to retain lean muscle tissue and how much protein is consider high, over the requirement? or at the minimum protein requirement?

how much fat to eat , too much fat = not good according to some people on this forum as it will never give the chance for the body to go after the fat stores.

protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)

ok, so thast what im getting now

for every protein meal i add fat to it such as mayo in moderation and butter sometimes.

in the end my ratio is 70% fat , 29% protein, 1% carbs.

protein power says carb must be kept at lowest(dont be shy to keep carbs at 0 if u want , eskimos live decades eating only protein/fat from fish and get 0 carbs as theres no vegetation, they also say that carb are a useless macronutrient, if body needs carbs itll make its own with fat/protein).

so i figured , im already getting like 10 grams of carbs per day through spinach salad/garlic/mayo/eggs. so im fine,

now atkin said the point of burning fat metabolism is the ratio of FAT to Carbs not Protein to Carbs. I dont know why that is.

nway the point is i eat now 70% fat (easily done with a couple table spoon of may/butter spread out through the day)

my carb is always kept ubber low sometimes 5-10 grams or more if i eat more spinach/kale/swiss chard.

protein i always eat at least my minimum 120 grams, not trying to eat more because i dont want it to become glucose.

and total caloric intake is around 1700-1900 depending if im putting right portion correctlly but im pretty sure i am. i do use fitday to measure stuff too.

and i realized that if theres ketones excreted in the urine it does not MEAN your burning your fat stores. it means that your exactly burning the dietary fat. Fat stores are not excreted in the urine, they vanish as they are burned. Only thing that gets excreted in the urine is the dietary fat that you eat where the ketones are made. So basically you could show NEGATIVE on ketostix since your burning your fat stores and not enough dietary fat to show in there in the urine.

so the darker the ketostix, the less fat stores u are burning. so i think people should not EXAGERATE on the fat to eat

remember its the FAT RATIO TO CARB NOT THE FAT QUANTITIY TO CARB.

meaning as long as your not in starvation mode , getting high ratio fat to carb, and getting your minimum protein, i think that the body will go right at those stores purely , not touching any ounce of muscle, and itll burn the dietary fat quickly then quickly attack the stores.

i also read that if one works out he must increase his protein intake or he will LOSE muscle tissue while working out. when i begin body building soon, i plan to add 1 tuna can before i go to workout then 1 tuna can when i get back. muscles are created when they are destroyed during the workout, protein repairs them.


what do you guys think about this fat ratio/carb ratio/protein ratio.

protein power/atkin philosophy.

also protein power life plan isnt even meant to get u into ketosis apparently. protein power book says lowest carb u do when u wanna lose weight is arouind 30 grams a day, thats good for getting low insulin but u wont get into ketosis. so i guess protein power life plan is a glucose energy based system at all times .

only time when atkin is in ketosis is when ur in induction, when u go over 20 grams of carbs i believe ur out of ketosis and on a low glucose level but still losing weight cuz of the low glucose level and easily tappign into those fat stores but on a glucose burning mode


am i right? anyone care to share info on these concepts.

Do yourself a favor and get off this wacked out diet. If you workout bring your carb intake between 50-65%, your protein intake between12-20%, and the remained fat. You can do this or try and take in 5-8 grams/kg of bodyweight, no more than 2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight and the remained fat(This is more accurate). Ease into it a bit until you gradually get up to this point. As long as you eliminate the simple sugars from your diet you will have no problem at all.
Good luck.
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  #30   ^
Old Wed, Oct-02-02, 21:45
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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Mike:
Quote:
protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)


That is not what MY copy of protein power says!

The amount of protein you need is based on your lean body mass (in my case 141) times an "activity category number" which ranges from 0.5 to 0.9. In my case, the activity category number is .7, because I'm considered "active" (which means I exercise for more than 30 min 3-5 times/week. Since I do ardio for at least 30 min 4-5 tiems a week, PLUS resistance training for at least another 30-40 min 4-5 times per week.

If you multiple 141 times 0.7 you get 98.7. That is how many grams of protein I should get in a day, not 120!

according to your numbers, given in your profile, your Lean body mass is 147 (ht 6'2", weight 195 gives a BMI of 25%. 195-25% gives a LBM of 147), at the highest activity rate (X 0.9) , you would need 132.3. this would be a comptetive athlete in training, doing twice dayly heavy physical workouts for an hour or more.

For "very active" (min of 1 hr/day 5 or more times/week) you'd require 117.6 gms/day.

This is from pages 89-95 of the "Protein Power" book (1998 edition)

Also....your denial of saying you did the summer fast for a month? Do a search on your name! You not only posted it, you posted it twice , in 2 different threads....and it wasn't copied and pasted from one to the other! Go look!

Also...how's school? What's your major?
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