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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Sep-27-02, 22:14
shutt22's Avatar
shutt22 shutt22 is offline
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Posts: 72
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 240/185/175
BF:99%
Progress: 85%
Location: Canada's Capital - Ottawa
Question Lack of helpful responses in forum

Don't take this the wrong way if you are one of the people I am about to talk about, but here is something I have been noticing on these forums.

Quite often newbies (and others) ask questions which may have been asked before, or which are answered in the Atkins book. A common response from some members is simply "Read the book yourself", or words to that affect. This hasn't happened to me , but it has made me hesitant to ask a couple of questions, myself.

I agree that people should be informed of the search function; it's a useful tool. BUT, remember, not everyone is on the Atkins plan. I'm not following the plan exactly, although I have read the book. Still, somethings may slip my mind, etc. It just seems that a simple answer would be more helpful. Not everyone has been on this plan for several months (or years). Not everyone has read every book on the subject of low carb.

Again, I mean no offense by this post, and maybe I am just over sensitive. It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes.


shutt22
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Sep-27-02, 22:38
agonycat's Avatar
agonycat agonycat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,473
 
Plan: AHP&FP
Stats: 197/125/137 Female 5' 6"
BF:42%/22%/21%
Progress: 120%
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Shut22,

No offense taken. However I give you this.....

After over a year on this forum, I have seen MANY newbies come in doing Atkin's without even a clue as to what the diet is all about. They heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend and they are eating meat, cheese and eggs.

They have no clue as to what/why/where/how the diet works, nor nutritional values, supplements or vitamins they are suppose to take. This is a VERY serious diet to be on. Many people miss the fact that Dr Atkin's himself recommends people have a complete check up BEFORE they start the diet.

The diet itself makes the human body go through some massive chemical changes. This is why we stress to people to read the book and research and learn as much as possible about low carb dieting before they take the plunge. You hear many many times about low carb causing kidney damage, liver damage and other ailments but did you ever think the people that have those types of illness didn't read the book and did the diet wrong?

So don't be too hard on us. We are here to help, not offer medical advice. If you want that check with your doctor or go to www.atkinscenter.com.

Not a single moderator, mentor or admin of this board gets paid for our services. We do this on a volunteer basis only.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Sep-27-02, 23:08
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,489
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Hi there Shutt22,

I endorse everything Agonycat has said.
Quote:
It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes.

On the contrary, I'm doing Atkins, and know I'm not the only Atkins follower here to have suggested many times that newbies (or not so newbies) try a plan other than Dr A's in order to stay low carbing.

The one thing I do always say, though, is that after you've chosen a plan (I usually direct folk to "Which low carb plan is right for me?" at the right of the screen) to then buy the appropriate book and read it thoroughly.

This may sound defensive - I guess it is a little. But I think that mostly when people have genuine questions they are answered here. And if the answer includes a gentle admonition to read a book or two, it's for a good reason.

Cheers, mate.

Rosebud
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Sep-27-02, 23:12
suze_c's Avatar
suze_c suze_c is offline
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Posts: 1,082
 
Plan: SuManKins
Stats: 321/249/221 Female 64 inches
BF:Let's not go there
Progress: 72%
Location: Midwest Flatlands
Default say what?

Quote:
It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes

Maybe the reason that some of these ppl of whom you speak, are enthusiastic about the first diet in their lives, that they are able to be on and lose some extra weight where all the other ones have failed....
Maybe it is because they have done the count every little gram of fat or protein or carb, religiously wrote down every calorie and morsel put into their mouth with no change in their weight, or worse yet... gaining weight.They find this diet, and for the first time in some of their lives, do NOT have to write down every morsel,and count everything nutritionally speaking that goes into their mouths.
Maybe it is because they have suffered physically different ailments, or been in pain for who knows how long, and LC'ing on Atkins is the only diet that has slowed down or sometimes even eliminated those physical ailments.
As far as not getting an answer to your questions,or other newbies getting answers... yes, it happens sometimes. I have heard that reply,... but in searching for answers, there is a WEALTH of information on this site!!! I mean there are thousands and thousands of questions and answers to those questions here...
Quote:
They have no clue as to what/why/where/how the diet works, nor nutritional values, supplements or vitamins they are suppose to take. This is a VERY serious diet to be on. Many people miss the fact that Dr Atkin's himself recommends people have a complete check up BEFORE they start the diet.

WHat agonycat said is SO TRUE... I was watching on infomercial about the Atkins diet,and it was talking about how your body has became accustomed to the WRONG way of metabolizing food and how the liver,pancreas,kidneys...so on and so forth,ALL these body parts literally CHANGE the way that they are functioning... and one needs to know what they are doing.
The ppl who are moderators and higher up, have been on this program or some way of LCing and speak from expertise, and sometimes they may NOT have the answer that you are seeking... that is why the search engine comes in so handy...
And as you said... I don't mean to offend with my post either... but I had to say something about the only diet I have been on at my weight, where I am allowed to eat as much as I have and STILL lose 14# in a week's time! And look at it from those who have been here for awhile's point of view... at least they would rather point you in the right direction, than misdirect... not saying that is done intentionally or anything like that, but no one person has all the answers~ Hope you are successful on your weight loss~
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Sep-27-02, 23:21
niksauntie niksauntie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 523
 
Plan: basic LC
Stats: 200/150.5/130 Female 65"
BF:46.3//???
Progress: 71%
Location: home
Default

When I was a newbie ( 2 short months ago) I asked a couple questions and I got the "read the book" response and I wasn't offended one bit. All it did for me was stress the importance of research. I see SO many questions on a daily basis that are the same over and over that if I were a moderator (or whoever answers these questions over and over) my responses wouldn't be near as nice as their's are. I, as a matter of fact, have thought to myself quite often that these women and men have great patience to answer the same posts day after day politely instead of saying "just do a search". I, of course, have no patience. That is why I have a GREAT BIG "HORRAAAYYYYY" for everyone responsible for keeping up this forum becuse it has basicaly made my life 100% better!!!!!!!!! YEAH for all of you who answer our questions day to day no matter how common they are!!!!!!!!
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 00:19
Karen's Avatar
Karen Karen is offline
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Posts: 12,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: -/-/- Female 5 feet 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Vancouver
Default

Oh yes. I am one of the read-the-bookers and I'm damned proud of it!

The thing that has puzzled me since lowcarb.ca's launch almost two years ago is the amount of people who want to change their life - 'cause we all know that changing your weight changes your life - without bothering to find out anything about how their chosen plan works. Switching your source of energy is a difficult, baffling and sometimes agonizing process. Why make it worse by not knowing the basic physiology?

Of course Atkins gets chosen above all others because his name is almost synonymous with this type of "dieting".

Well, you can't be on Atkins if you don't know anything about the Atkins plan.

Newbies that have not read the New Diet Revolution can be spotted a mile away. A simple click on their profile reveals that yes, it's true. The LC Books You Have Read area says : none.

Now in order that we all be talking macadamia nuts, a basic knowledge of macadamia nuts is essential. If I'm talking macadamia nuts and you're talking almonds, it will be hard to understand each other. If we get to an understanding of each others nuts, we'll better understand what the other is saying and trying to accomplish.

I've read almost every book on low-carbing there is so that I can understand what the Schwarzbeiner's or CAD'ers or Sommersizer's are talking about.

So why am I still here after almost 2 years and probably over 100 posts saying "read the book" and the 5500 or so saying something else? Because I really want people to succeed with this. And, I can't help anyone who is not willing to take the right steps to succeed.

Since World Domination is one of your interests, you could start here. I'm sure you've gained a lot of low-carbing knowledge that would be most helpful to newbies. Even to those who have not read the "book."

And, I'm not on the Atkins payroll because I follow Protein Power. The Eades send me my commission on a quarterly basis.

Karen
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 00:58
suze_c's Avatar
suze_c suze_c is offline
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Posts: 1,082
 
Plan: SuManKins
Stats: 321/249/221 Female 64 inches
BF:Let's not go there
Progress: 72%
Location: Midwest Flatlands
Default Is that your final answer? :lol:

Excellent answer Karen~
I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head with it~
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 04:53
DuPont's Avatar
DuPont DuPont is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 203
 
Plan: Atkins & Hypnosis
Stats: 229/229/150 Female 63 inches
BF:not a clue!
Progress: 0%
Location: Syracuse, NY
Default I agree

I agree with shutt22 for the most part, however I have seen some great responses...not about the diet, usually about something else.

And when I try and search this forum for an answer to my question I can never find it.

Last edited by DuPont : Sat, Sep-28-02 at 05:03.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 05:15
suze_c's Avatar
suze_c suze_c is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,082
 
Plan: SuManKins
Stats: 321/249/221 Female 64 inches
BF:Let's not go there
Progress: 72%
Location: Midwest Flatlands
Question Ever Think it Might Be Your Method?

DuPont & shutt22, ever think it might be the method in which you are searching? I use to be a reference librarian's assistant in a college library, and the way a search is done is vital to it's successfulness!
Try experimenting with the search options, search using showing/ using the posts instead of the threads. It brings up a little window w/ words from the original posts in, instead of having to muddle through all the threads looking for your particular answer.
If the same question gets asked 5 billion times +... I would be pretty tired of explaining the answer out in full, when there was a perfectly good explanation wrote out in in full in a database that is available to anyone who searches for it.
There is an ENORMOUS avast of wealth as far as information here... they COULD do away with some of the anwers you know... gadz think of how much web space that would save... BUT THEY KEEP IT ABOUT... *JUST IN CASE SOME ONE ELSE HAS THE SAME QUESTION!!!!
I think instead of wasting your energy whining about the situation, of applying the same amount of energy to a search, that your searches would be more successful... or perhaps you want the moon given to you on a platter too,as the saying goes.It's so much easier to put the blame on most everyone else,accuse them of being *paid* for being atkins devotees, instead of accepting responsibility & looking... and doing it wisely~
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 05:22
DuPont's Avatar
DuPont DuPont is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 203
 
Plan: Atkins & Hypnosis
Stats: 229/229/150 Female 63 inches
BF:not a clue!
Progress: 0%
Location: Syracuse, NY
Default what?

Would you please explain the search options more clearly?
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 05:45
suze_c's Avatar
suze_c suze_c is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,082
 
Plan: SuManKins
Stats: 321/249/221 Female 64 inches
BF:Let's not go there
Progress: 72%
Location: Midwest Flatlands
Default I will try Dupont~

Ok Dupont, I will try to help ya here... and give my own search as how to attach a cool little picture on to my signature to show you how I found the information..
First go to search... I put in ADDING signature picture in the window for keywords,under the orange bar at the bottom, where it says search options, I marked SEARCH ALL OPEN FORUMS, checked the boxes where it says "search entire posts" AND "show results as posts". "search for any date" and the order I used, was "sort results by last posting date"... hit enter.It brings up the ORIGINAL POST concerning the topic in a little box, where you can read it,instead of having to search through the threads for the individual posts.... or be more specific, and for the search I will put in "signature AND picture"....this brings up more posts in case I did not find my answer in the first set that it gave me... Experiment a little with how you word your searches.,.. take advantages of the wildcard options,... that is, for example, putting it as *signature picture*, with the *SUBJECT YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR* inside of the asterisks like this... I hope that this helps Dupont to find things a bit more easily... don't give up if it is not right in front of you, some reading after you hit enter will need to be done, :read 2: but hopefully I have helped make the posts/search results a little easier to find and read~ Happy searching~
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 06:33
AngelaR AngelaR is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,483
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 197/184/145 Female 5 ft 6 in
BF:45%/32%/22%
Progress: 25%
Location: South Eastern Ontario
Default There's a sticky here that explains how to use the search function

Shutt and Dupont,

At the very top of THIS forum there is a sticky that gives tons of useful info on how to use the search function. That may help you out.

Searching by forum instead of across all forums is also very useful. For example, you can start by searching for answers to general LC questions just in this general low carb forum, or in the newbie forum. That will bypass all the stuff posted in people's journals, and considerably reduce the number of posts/threads to read.

The other thing to remember, is that in all the forums there are multiple pages. Just because you don't see something on the screen right now, doesn't mean it hasn't been asked before. Flip back through a couple of previous pages. You'd be amazed at what you find. Just because the dates are old does not mean the info is stale.

Hope this helps.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 06:33
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,489
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Well done, Suz!

And...this thread, Effective use of the Search Function might add a little more help.

Most of us don't mind how many times we answer the same questions. The ones I won't answer, but will refer someone to their book instead are the ones that say, "What sort of food can I eat on this diet?" - indicating that the questioner has done no reading whatsoever.

DuPont, firstly, was there any particular question you had in mind?
Secondly, if you go to Newbies' Questions, there is a "sticky" there called Hot Links which contains stacks of very handy previous threads. You may find some answers there.

HTH!

Rosebud
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 06:43
LC Sponge LC Sponge is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,160
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: //2002
BF:and feeling great
Progress: 99%
Location: Ontario, along the Rideau
Default

As a former mentor on this board, I can tell you that any comments you make about how questions are answered are taken very seriously, considered and discussed among the mentors and moderators. The ongoing quality of how this board is run is very much in the forefront of the minds of the webmaster, mentors and the moderators.

Your point has been raised before, and it has been noted that "read the book" in and unto itself is not totally helpful advice. Mentors and moderators (and members) will often give their twist, and then supplement with "read the book", and even give page numbers which is very helpful.

On the other hand, it really is difficult to help someone who has not read the book at all (doesn't matter which book we are talking about) because it's hard to do an abridged version/ Coles notes type thing on something that is so detailed. "Reading the book" has become the measuring stick that determines the level of seriousness a person (particularly someone new) has towards their new WOL, and if they prove themselves to be serious and committed (by reading the book), and not just be a one-post-wonder, or fluffy about their plan (those who want the book to be "read to them"), they will "earn" the ongoing comprehensive answers and support they need. It may sound a bit harsh, but there are A LOT of short term dieters who flip around between plans, go on and off diets almost daily. It's very disappointing as a mentor to spend a lot of time working on an answer only to have the original poster never come back, ignore advice or continue to not take responsibility for their own WOL.

It is also a fact that those who are studiously working a plan themselves are helped by helping others. They are forced to look things up in answer to questions, and to do research. This is a double whammy benefit because they are learning and teaching at the same time. Understandably "Read the Book" by itself does neither of these things.

Another thing I can say from experience, mentors (both the crowned as such, and the ones who just mentor without the official title) can get so keen about helping peole that some will do the scattergun approach to mentoring. Which is to reach out to as many people as possible in the time they have. This can sometimes translate into answers that are brief. Sometimes I think those icons that "reward" posters based on post frequency feed into that mentalilty a little tiny bit.

Just some thoughts....
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Sep-28-02, 07:10
TeriDoodle TeriDoodle is offline
Starting Over!
Posts: 3,435
 
Plan: Protein Power LifePlan
Stats: 182/178/150 Female 67 inches
BF:Jiggley mess
Progress: 13%
Location: Texas!!
Default

Bingo, Sponge ............. very well said (as usual) and nice to see you again!
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