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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Sep-07-18, 14:24
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,294
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Question Probiotics actually harmful?

Quote:
Probiotics may not be as helpful as you think and may even be harmful in some cases. Researchers studying the human digestive tract found probiotics have questionable benefits and may delay the return of normal bacteria when taken on antibiotics.
"They took the normal bacteria out of individuals and made a pill of their own bacteria and they gave them to those people and those people recovered in days, versus up to six months when they took the probiotics. So we're going to have personalized pills of bacteria going forward and that's what's going to be exciting. Fecal transplants might also someday be an useful, if stomach-churning way, to keep our guts healthy after taking powerful antibiotics."
https://gizmodo.com/for-some-people...m-no-1828858007

Not at all sure about all this. Don't think you can go wrong with kefir -- provided it's the homemade stuff from kefir grains.

Last edited by mike_d : Fri, Sep-07-18 at 14:36.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Sep-07-18, 15:57
Grav Grav is offline
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Posts: 847
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/185/187 Male 175cm
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Progress: 102%
Location: New Zealand
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I heard a radio interview about this study the other morning. The findings really made it sound like this could form a part of personalised nutrition in the future.

I was glad they went into that level of detail in the interview rather than just skim the headline "probiotics may be harmful", since once you dig into the detail, it's clear that for some they can still be quite beneficial. The tricky part is just working out for whom.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Sep-08-18, 12:32
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 10,498
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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I have gotten into kombucha which works better than capsule probitics.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Sep-08-18, 16:21
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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The point of the " story" has been misunderstood. The bottomline is that ones own fecal population is far better than the limited kinds , 4-6, in a pill.

A research of a native population in SA, put their diffrent types at well over 30. The US population has far fewer-- about 24, if I am remembering correctly.
Not nearly the variety in kombucha, kefir, yogurt, probiotic pills, raw sauerkraut etc.

I doubt I will ever have a colonoscopy ever again--- likely more damage than good IMHO. Between the risk of a puncture thru the GI wall, to the poor ability to replace the beneficial microbes permanently lost. Using all the commercially available sources is not enough.

A fecal sample should be kept to inoculate the gut post procedure. The colonoscopy seems to do more damage than good.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sat, Sep-08-18 at 16:40.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Sep-09-18, 11:14
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,836
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I feel--and we all know how important feelings are-- that doctors, gurus etc. giving us advice about playing the gut biome game at home are largely stepping outside what we really know. I'd probably drink kombucha if it turned out I liked the stuff, or if a bit of n=1 showed some benefit. I don't make a habit of arguing with personal anecdotal results, though I might argue about presumptions about mechanisms. As a for instance, fermented foods provide organic acids, like lactic acid and various short chain fatty acids that are shown to have benefits whether fermented in the gut or consumed as part of the diet. Outside of avoiding things that cause clear discomfort, I'm not really ready to micromanage my poop quite yet.

I do think you have to differentiate between people post-antibiotic from people with an "uncompromised" microbiota (whether a beneficial one or not). A fully colonized biome might react better to a particular probiotic, a microbiotic population that takes the probiotic like an assault for instance, might take it as sort of a hormetic pressure that improves things instead of making them worse.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Sep-09-18, 14:50
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
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Because you are not high risk for colon cancer--lol. That might change your focus, Teaser.

There is a lot of (growing) information on gut health and cancer rates.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Sep-09-18, 22:50
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,836
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm not saying it's not important--just that we're trying to steer it a little early in some ways. Which sort of goes with what the researchers are saying here.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Sep-10-18, 05:13
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Plan: LCHF/IF
Stats: 217/192/160 Female 5'10"
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Dr Davis, of Wheat Belly fame, addressed this on his blog a couple of days ago:

https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2018...our-microbiome/
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Sep-10-18, 07:20
cshepard cshepard is offline
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Plan: Atkins - maintenance
Stats: 156/123/125 Female 64"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
Dr Davis, of Wheat Belly fame, addressed this on his blog a couple of days ago:

https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2018...our-microbiome/


A thoughtful and balanced response from Dr. Davis.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Sep-10-18, 07:33
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
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Worth quoting for all to read here, in that we CAN support our microbime.

Quote:
Those of us engaged in more comprehensive efforts to restore healthy bowel flora, as we do in the Undoctored program, and consume lactate-fermented foods, include generous quantities of prebiotic fibers in our diet, and work to remove factors that disrupt the microbiome such as herbicide/pesticide-laden foods and stomach acid-blocking drugs, also recognize that a probiotic is just one component of a broader effort.


From the Wheatbelly link posted abovel
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Sep-10-18, 21:01
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 10,498
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
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Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I doubt I will ever have a colonoscopy ever again--- likely more damage than good IMHO. Between the risk of a puncture thru the GI wall, to the poor ability to replace the beneficial microbes permanently lost. Using all the commercially available sources is not enough.

A fecal sample should be kept to inoculate the gut post procedure. The colonoscopy seems to do more damage than good.


That is the recommendation of the researcher behind Gutsense.org
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