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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 09:45
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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Crazed, psychotic bullies tried to destroy Jordan Peterson's life and thus made him famous when he refused to bow down to their insatiable demands.

Now that he is famous he has become filthy rich (good for him), and can afford to eat nothing but the choicest cuts of grass-fed beef.

The rest of us can't afford to make the perfect the enemy of the good.
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 09:48
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I do look forward to studies showing any benefit to grassfed vs. non-grassfed. Recognizing differences won't really help until there's work done to show that the one is genuinely helpful (or conversely, the other genuinely harmful) vs. the other.

It doesn't work for me to criticize a bit of epidemiology that doesn't actually show causation and is hopelessly confounded by saying "yeah, but that's in grain fed beef." First somebody has to actually pin something on the grain fed beef. And if they did--until there was evidence otherwise, I'd have to hold grassfed beef under suspicion as well, because the two have more in common than they have differences.

edited to fix "hopefully" to the intended "hopelessly." Autospell run amuck, or Freudian slip?


You have a remarkably logical mind teaser.
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 09:55
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I do look forward to studies showing any benefit to grassfed vs. non-grassfed. Recognizing differences won't really help until there's work done to show that the one is genuinely helpful (or conversely, the other genuinely harmful) vs. the other.

It doesn't work for me to criticize a bit of epidemiology that doesn't actually show causation and is hopelessly confounded by saying "yeah, but that's in grain fed beef." First somebody has to actually pin something on the grain fed beef. And if they did--until there was evidence otherwise, I'd have to hold grassfed beef under suspicion as well, because the two have more in common than they have differences.

edited to fix "hopefully" to the intended "hopelessly." Autospell run amuck, or Freudian slip?


I understand you are very interested in seeing studies before fully accepting a concept, so respectfully, I dont plan to wait for the rest of the world to figure out the world is round and not flat. There are enough studies to show the inflammantion levels of omega 3's and omega 6's. And why the advertising on TV is very strong on the sales of omega 3 supplements---the information is getting out and they are capitalizing on it. This mornings claim is 98% dont get enough omega 3. I have not seen the study but assume that must be verifiable and the advertising machine is running with it. Other studies show that omega 3 pills are not effective. So there is a push to balance omega 3's and omega 6's. The best method is grassfed meats and eggs, instead of conventional grain fed livestock.

ALlowing my chickens to free range dramatically increases the nutritent value of the eggs, and the meat.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 09:59
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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I just bought grass fed beef for $4 a pound. Bought it on sale. One pound feeds a family of 4 for a meal.

Chickens supplement their feed by free ranging all summer----

I dont consider myself rich....but spend my food dollars wisely.
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 11:34
Zei Zei is offline
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Posts: 1,326
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
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I'm glad you're able to obtain high quality foods at a price you can afford. I think that's a really good healthy choice since you're able to do it. Here there are no such low prices on the organic grass-fed, and free range-fed chickens aren't a practical option for me. The neighbors managed to sneak in a small number of hens in a not very large yard (I don't know if it's even legal but support them in it) but they have to give them commercial feed, not much natural to eat in the yard. My experience is on a tight budget you have to pay your housing/utilities to survive and can only cut down just so much on usage. You have to pay your insurance, fuel and keep cars (old inexpensive ones in our case) running to get to work, etc. I read a "budgeting" article in some magazine and they suggest cutting out all the extras I didn't afford to start with--restaurant meals, TV programming, nice phones and clothes, etc. You get the idea. So what's left that's flexible spending? Food. If you have to keep down costs and have pretty much downsized all other spending you can, food. It's way cheaper to eat poor quality processed carbohydrates like store-brand bread, pastas, oatmeal, etc. Vegetables and fruit are expensive by comparison for the amount of fullness they provide. And even lower quality meat isn't a cheap food if you eat it often. So I totally get it why poor people who really are poor live that way, have poor health, etc. When I learned years ago how bad those carbs were for my health I started paying for some of those more expensive foods in exchange for better health, but meanwhile I hope Teaser's right about grain-fed products maybe not being too bad since that's what I can presently afford.
Edited to add: on a carnivore diet I'm eating a couple or more pounds of meat a day, so that adds up in cost pretty fast. End of meat price rant

Last edited by Zei : Mon, Aug-06-18 at 11:43.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 11:47
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
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Arielle, where did you buy your grass fed beef at that price?

I loved my chickens when I had them, with the nice orange yolk. Haven't seen that since then...
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 13:20
HappyLC's Avatar
HappyLC HappyLC is offline
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Posts: 1,801
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 212/177/135 Female 66.75
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Progress: 45%
Location: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
Crazed, psychotic bullies tried to destroy Jordan Peterson's life and thus made him famous when he refused to bow down to their insatiable demands.

Now that he is famous he has become filthy rich (good for him), and can afford to eat nothing but the choicest cuts of grass-fed beef.

The rest of us can't afford to make the perfect the enemy of the good.


This forum needs a "Like" button. In the meantime...
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 13:40
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
Arielle, where did you buy your grass fed beef at that price?

I loved my chickens when I had them, with the nice orange yolk. Haven't seen that since then...


I often dont see those eggs either-- the girls lay them out and about and I cant find them!!

SHAW's. Sale price. A 3 day sale. Usually about $7 now. Used to be $10. THis is probably a northeast chain store, not country wide.
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 13:48
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
I'm glad you're able to obtain high quality foods at a price you can afford. I think that's a really good healthy choice since you're able to do it. Here there are no such low prices on the organic grass-fed, and free range-fed chickens aren't a practical option for me. The neighbors managed to sneak in a small number of hens in a not very large yard (I don't know if it's even legal but support them in it) but they have to give them commercial feed, not much natural to eat in the yard. My experience is on a tight budget you have to pay your housing/utilities to survive and can only cut down just so much on usage. You have to pay your insurance, fuel and keep cars (old inexpensive ones in our case) running to get to work, etc. I read a "budgeting" article in some magazine and they suggest cutting out all the extras I didn't afford to start with--restaurant meals, TV programming, nice phones and clothes, etc. You get the idea. So what's left that's flexible spending? Food. If you have to keep down costs and have pretty much downsized all other spending you can, food. It's way cheaper to eat poor quality processed carbohydrates like store-brand bread, pastas, oatmeal, etc. Vegetables and fruit are expensive by comparison for the amount of fullness they provide. And even lower quality meat isn't a cheap food if you eat it often. So I totally get it why poor people who really are poor live that way, have poor health, etc. When I learned years ago how bad those carbs were for my health I started paying for some of those more expensive foods in exchange for better health, but meanwhile I hope Teaser's right about grain-fed products maybe not being too bad since that's what I can presently afford.
Edited to add: on a carnivore diet I'm eating a couple or more pounds of meat a day, so that adds up in cost pretty fast. End of meat price rant



I have looked into this for two years. In my family are making the change slowly. Doing what I can, one change at a time.

Hens are very easy to keep and I know some people that keep them in the house/appartment. They eat all the left overs, and food scraps.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 14:25
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Here is a clip from an interview with Jordan Peterson where he talks about the Carnivore Diet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGikB-54Lwk
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 14:57
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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Sounds like she had some food allergy issues. Im not an expert but the elimination diet changed her life for the better. The method is to add ONE food back, and see if there is a reaction in the days after.

It is in DANDR.

By eating only meat, or chicken and broccali, which was ok for her, it was a sort of elimination diet.

THe effects IMO are not due to the meat 100% but with the elimination of problem foods.
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  #27   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 19:06
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,201
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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I don't raise cows, but it's my understanding that cows are pastured until just before they are butchered. Then they are kept in feed lots & fed grain to make the nice marbled meat. If they're fed grain for too long, their health goes down.

This might be the reason there isn't a great deal of difference between grass-fed & grain-fed - the grain is fed for a fairly short time.
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  #28   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 19:20
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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Bonnie, you are on the right track. Only a few select operations keep the cattle on grass or hay 100% until the end. Most go to the feedlots to finish growing and to fatten up.

I read a study recently that looked at how long it takes to start changing the omega 6 to omega3 ratios. The change starts immediately. So 3 months was ok, But once it is 6-12 months in the feed lots, the omega 6's are very high. Once on feedlot, the amount of hay is decreased as much as possible, and grain is maximized for optimum production. ( THink pounds of gain per day.)

Lamb almost never goes to a feedlot.
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  #29   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 20:25
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,326
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
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I think you're right. I don't have any idea how long the cows are kept in the feed lots, and my understanding is sheep can't be grain fed so even though lamb may not be organic, it will be grass fed just by being a sheep. That's one thing I can get get fairly inexpensively at Walmart, of all places. Lamb ribs. The other cuts are prohibitive in price, but the ribs are less than three bucks a pound. Not a whole lot of meat, but pop them in the slow cooker awhile with water and you've automatically got some meat, bone broth and a whole lot of rendered fat you can get off the broth by refrigerating it. I'm out of the area caring for an ill relative right now so eating what's available where their family shops, which doesn't carry lamb. I'll get back to it later when I'm home again.
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  #30   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 21:08
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,240
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
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I love lamb. Good thing I have a small flock. Delish!
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