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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 16:06
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
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Default Bmr Boosters

Having watched a presentation by Dr Phinney about the affects of fasting on metabolic rates, including the long term 5 years drop in BMR for the BIggest Looser contestants, I am interested in better understanding if there are ligitamate methods to BOOST the BMR? Safe methods of course.

With a quick google search, this website lists 10 likely options. But are any of these truely effective??

Looking for any studies or links to our LC supporters to find quality info.

https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...bolism#section1
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 17:28
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teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I find a good rock concert helps, but I don't think you're looking for things that shift people towards hypomania.

Most of the stuff in there seems to be more about raising the metabolism above the basal state, rather than raising the basal rate itself. Maybe hard to distinguish between the two though, they try to measure bmr in a relaxed state. but things like level of arousal (non-sexual, lol) could make a difference there. I'm not sure I have a basal state when I'm in that natural high.

I think an important question is what the body's achieving with all that energy use? Is increased metabolic rate to heat up the glass of cold water you just drank all that useful?

There are studies where they have people exercise in the cold, it seems to be motivating. Laziness on hot days to avoid overheating sort of makes sense.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 17:38
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,111
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/223/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

ROFL

You are right , Im looking to use MORE energy while Im sitting still.

And it is in the back of my mind that eating just one meal a day could drive down my BMR.....

At least it wont hurt to try some of these. I suspect that hot peppers might have some merit, even if short term.

ANd cold water, well that might steal some energy, especially when its 90 and humid.....but I just cant fathom how it would truely affect BMR.

Muscle building might---at the very least , the extra muscle would use energy, but perhaps exercise does rev up those mitochondria.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 21:36
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BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

I actually mostly agree with that list.

However, I think that if you're on the Standard American Diet, raising your BMR will just make you hungrier. The bonus is you might be able to eat more, but it won't make you lose weight.

If you're on a ketogenic diet, and are overweight, then your body may be able to draw on your fat stores and prevent extra hunger. So keto may enhance the benefits of doing the things on that list.

But I think the main thing you can do to increase your BMR is just ensure that insulin is as low as possible as often as possible. The effect of those Top 10 Things is probably negligible compared to just lowering your insulin.

Keto only needs to raise raise BMR by like 20 calories per day to undo the entire obesity epidemic, if everyone were to do it. That's probably at the limits of even being able to measure, and despite the headlines, I think it's what the NUSI study #1 showed.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 21:37
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BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
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P.S. I wish in papers they would make it more clear whether they are talking about BMR per person per day, or BMR per kg of body mass per day. The difference matters.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 00:16
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Ambulo Ambulo is offline
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Plan: No GPS/OMAD (23:1)
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Having watched a presentation by Dr Phinney about the affects of fasting on metabolic rates, including the long term 5 years drop in BMR for the BIggest Looser contestants


I really hope Dr Phinney did not say that the Biggest Loser contestants did fasting, because they did not, they did very low calorie diets, which is a very different animal, thankfully (otherwise I would not be maintaining 5 years into IF, and be eating more than I was, 30 lbs heavier on day 1.)
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 04:42
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
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Progress: 26%
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulo
I really hope Dr Phinney did not say that the Biggest Loser contestants did fasting, because they did not, they did very low calorie diets, which is a very different animal, thankfully (otherwise I would not be maintaining 5 years into IF, and be eating more than I was, 30 lbs heavier on day 1.)


NO, that was ONE of the studies he talked about. That even 5 years post competition, the BMR was significantly reduced.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 04:44
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,111
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/223/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
I actually mostly agree with that list.

However, I think that if you're on the Standard American Diet, raising your BMR will just make you hungrier. The bonus is you might be able to eat more, but it won't make you lose weight.

If you're on a ketogenic diet, and are overweight, then your body may be able to draw on your fat stores and prevent extra hunger. So keto may enhance the benefits of doing the things on that list.

But I think the main thing you can do to increase your BMR is just ensure that insulin is as low as possible as often as possible. The effect of those Top 10 Things is probably negligible compared to just lowering your insulin.

Keto only needs to raise raise BMR by like 20 calories per day to undo the entire obesity epidemic, if everyone were to do it. That's probably at the limits of even being able to measure, and despite the headlines, I think it's what the NUSI study #1 showed.



Is this conjecture.... or have you found any research to support this....?
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 05:20
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teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
Default

The one thing I can think of in humans is a study by David Ludwig looking at metabolic rate in low carb versus higher carb for people in maintenance, everybody lost weight on the same diet, then switched out for maintenance. The last big thing that will come out of Nusi is a bigger repeat of that experiment, I guess we'll see about that.

With BMR--I dunno, how I feel about it depends. My BMR is likely lower than it was at 190 pounds. But I feel better, and I generally feel more energetic. After a Thanksgiving dinner, a person's metabolic rate will be higher due to the thermic effect of food, more so for protein, then carbs, not so much for fat. Maybe with low insulin my BMR is higher, I don't know. I do know that I'm more energetic on a more ketogenic diet. I can eat a thousand calorie ketogenic meal and work out minutes later (although it took some time to have the tolerance to dietary fat to do this), not something I could do on high carb, or with mixed carb and fat.

Subjectively I have more energy, less aches and pains, lower blood pressure, less crazy. I think I like what my body's doing with the energy it is using, whatever amount it might be going through.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 05:46
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
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Location: Massachusetts
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Yes teaser I totaly agree that a lc diet creates a far more energenic body!!

However, I dont think that is BMR.....or maybe it is!!!! Im surprizzed no one has done such a basic test.

Long ago a friend did BMR study on mallard ducks. One section was putting a duck in a freezer for X time, using O2 measure, to see the BMR at a very cold temps----remember ducks live outside even during the 20 degree winter.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 06:43
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BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Is this conjecture.... or have you found any research to support this....?


the KD coincided with increased EEchamber (57 13 kcal/d, P = 0.0004) and SEE (89 14 kcal/d, P < 0.0001) [emphasis mine]

https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-kevi...hesis-pure-spin

And you only need an increase of 20 kcal to explain the entire obesity epidemic.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 06:49
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,111
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/223/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 26%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
the KD coincided with increased EEchamber (57 13 kcal/d, P = 0.0004) and SEE (89 14 kcal/d, P < 0.0001) [emphasis mine]

https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-kevi...hesis-pure-spin

And you only need an increase of 20 kcal to explain the entire obesity epidemic.



Sorry, guess I missed seeing that source----
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 06:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

But then you have to explain why free living people don't just eat 20 calories less (or more) to compensate.

Personally, when I was busy gaining my share of the X pounds a year that people do in our society, I don't think it was 20 calories a day. More like a couple pounds around Christmas that never totally went away, a couple of months of horrible eating while I was depressed/psychotic, etc. I mean, I could buy a small difference in bmr as a symptom maybe of something good going on, but I scrunch my nose at it as a CICO thing the same way I'd scrunch at claims that just cutting 100 calories from the diet would result in a pound of fat loss in 35 days etc.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 06:52
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/223/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 26%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Still reading that link....

My first impression is that DR ATKINS talked about the insulin levels driving the fat, wonder if dr A books were published before Taubes work.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jun-30-18, 11:31
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,111
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/223/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
But then you have to explain why free living people don't just eat 20 calories less (or more) to compensate.

Personally, when I was busy gaining my share of the X pounds a year that people do in our society, I don't think it was 20 calories a day. More like a couple pounds around Christmas that never totally went away, a couple of months of horrible eating while I was depressed/psychotic, etc. I mean, I could buy a small difference in bmr as a symptom maybe of something good going on, but I scrunch my nose at it as a CICO thing the same way I'd scrunch at claims that just cutting 100 calories from the diet would result in a pound of fat loss in 35 days etc.


Or a boss that moves you from a HIGH energy speed work covering a football field, to standing still 10 hours a day----then whoosh, on goes 20 pounds in 2 months----with NO change in food intake.
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